Christian Theism has not been falsified yet

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2013, 10:29:01 AM »
And that does not address Romulus, Alexander, Genghis Khan, etc. I'm not sure about Ra, to be honest.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2013, 10:36:25 AM »
I shall point out that Patheos is an atheist website, which may be congenial to some of you. Ok, Horus was born of Isis, a virgin, and later, Ra and Horus were fused into one god. So Ra himself was not born of a virgin, but the god he later became was. (Wikipedia).

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2013, 10:37:04 AM »
Let's get back to the OP.

The op is about christian theism not being falsified yet. The main thing that every religion has in common is faith. Faith is defined as follows:

faith
fāTH/
noun
noun: faith

    2.
    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

So proof in any religion is based on faith and most of the God's from religions I've heard about have such a God that requires faith. It seems that falsifiable proof would completely contradict the entire purpose of faith. How can we expect an unfalsifiable premise to be falsified? The OP is a non-sequitur.

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2013, 10:40:58 AM »
I'm not addressing the rest of your post because I don't care about the argument, just the fact that you are using incorrect information to attempt to make a point.
As far as the others you claimed to be of virgin births,  Genghis Khan was his father's third child and mother's first, not a divine virgin birth.  Romulus was born of a woman and a god, Mars to be specific.  In Roman mythology the gods often born children to mortals, these children being demigods, but these children are thought to be conceived through conventional means besides the divine status of the father.  I'm not familiar with a claim that Alexander was born to a virgin.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2013, 10:41:17 AM »
Let's get back to the OP.

The op is about christian theism not being falsified yet. The main thing that every religion has in common is faith. Faith is defined as follows:

faith
fāTH/
noun
noun: faith

    2.
    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

So proof in any religion is based on faith and most of the God's from religions I've heard about have such a God that requires faith. It seems that falsifiable proof would completely contradict the entire purpose of faith. How can we expect an unfalsifiable premise to be falsified? The OP is a non-sequitur.

You know what's worse than a troll reply to a serious topic? A serious reply to a troll topic.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2013, 10:42:32 AM »
Reasonable Faith is an unreasonable premise:

A God that requires faith would contradict the empirically valid methods of reasoning and it is best explained by excerpting Douglas Adams.

In his novel, A Hitchhikerís Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams used an imaginary and extreme example of evolutionary intelligent design to make it unmistakably obvious that such a creature was in fact designed rather than by chance in a naturally selective process. Such an extreme example is warranted because of the anti-evolutionists claims that the complexity we see in natural species must have come about by intelligent design and the extreme example provided by Adams should only help a theist with their claims if God was in the business of making any traces of his existence obvious. Here is an excerpt from his book:

Quote from: Douglas Adams
The Babel fish is small, yellow, leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the universe. It feeds on brain wave energy, absorbing all unconscious frequencies and then excreting telepathically a matrix formed from the conscious frequencies and nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain, the practical upshot of which is that if you stick one in your ear, you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language: the speech you hear decodes the brain wave matrix.

Essentially, it is a universal translator that neatly crosses the language divide between any species. The book points out that the Babel fish could not possibly have developed naturally, and therefore it both imaginarily proves and disproves the existence of God but also indicates a contradiction in Godís motives.

Quote from: Douglas Adams
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could evolve purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. Quod erat demonstrandum."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

To emphatically conclude, Adams has clearly shown the contradiction. From the example of Babel Fish it is easy to conclude that a God requiring faith would be a paradox if advocates of intelligent design or any theist who meddles with attempting to prove Godís existence were to be successful, in addition it would undermine its [Godís] motives. Faith and reason are therefore incompatible and attempting to take faith anything beyond that [faith] is incoherent, futile and most of all unreasonable.

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Pyrolizard

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2013, 10:45:01 AM »
;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Well, I am not here to prove Judaism true. I was just challenging the claim that Christian Theism hasn't been falsified yet. I could give you a variety of reasons Judaism is true, but they only apply to Jews. We know what God has revealed to us. We are obligated by what we know (The Torah, the Prophets, and the Writings). What God may or may not have revealed to Gentiles, we do not know. Its that simple.

Precisely.  You trust in your family, who trusted in their family, and so on and so forth.  It's a tradition.  I'm not here to disprove Judaism, I'm just giving a reason many people believe in any religion, Christianity and Judaism included.
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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2013, 10:46:39 AM »
Let's get back to the OP.

The op is about christian theism not being falsified yet. The main thing that every religion has in common is faith. Faith is defined as follows:

faith
fāTH/
noun
noun: faith

    2.
    strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

So proof in any religion is based on faith and most of the God's from religions I've heard about have such a God that requires faith. It seems that falsifiable proof would completely contradict the entire purpose of faith. How can we expect an unfalsifiable premise to be falsified? The OP is a non-sequitur.

You know what's worse than a troll reply to a serious topic? A serious reply to a troll topic.

I don't care about the intentions of the trollish topic. Claims like these are persistent in society and I've chosen to respond to it here, for whatever reason.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2013, 10:48:07 AM »
Rotting, I think you have a point. I can't prove to you that God exists. You can't prove to me that he doesn't. Ultimately, the concept of God depends on exactly what you said: FAITH. I can tell you all the benefits of having faith, but if you are not so inclined, you're not. But you are right. God's existence is by definition an cannot be falsified. Nor can it be verified. So there you are. The first post, Jesus aside, is a non sequitur.

Re: the virgin births, I'm not saying that all those figures were born of virgins. I'm only saying that claims were made at various times that they were. Genghis Khan, for example, during his lifetime, was able to get people to believe that he was born of a virgin. As I recall, Romulus was born of Mars and a woman, but it did not involve intercourse. Rather, his presence impregnated her.

Alexander was another. Although it is known that he had a father and a mother, the claim existed that he was born of a virgin. Don't ask me where that got started.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2013, 10:52:52 AM »
I shall point out that Patheos is an atheist website, which may be congenial to some of you. Ok, Horus was born of Isis, a virgin, and later, Ra and Horus were fused into one god. So Ra himself was not born of a virgin, but the god he later became was. (Wikipedia).

No it isn't. There are atheist blogs on Patheos, but it is far from being an atheist website. Just having a brief look at their home page should tell you that.

I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2013, 10:54:26 AM »
Interesting. The site I looked at was specifically about denying the virgin birth, and it said there that it was an atheist site. Perhaps they meant only that page of the site.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2013, 10:58:31 AM »
Interesting. The site I looked at was specifically about denying the virgin birth, and it said there that it was an atheist site. Perhaps they meant only that page of the site.

Yeah, you were looking at one of the blogs. Patheos has a blog network. They even have Jewish blogs!  http://www.patheos.com/Jewish.html 
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2013, 11:00:13 AM »
Patheos describes what they are on their about page.

http://www.patheos.com/About-Patheos/About.html

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 11:02:07 AM »
I just looked at it. It appears to be a site dedicated to all faiths, including Atheism. I'll have to have a look at it later. For now, I have to catch the bus. So I shall close this down for now. Talk to you all later.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 11:02:30 AM »
Rotting, I think you have a point. I can't prove to you that God exists. You can't prove to me that he doesn't. Ultimately, the concept of God depends on exactly what you said: FAITH. I can tell you all the benefits of having faith, but if you are not so inclined, you're not. But you are right. God's existence is by definition an cannot be falsified. Nor can it be verified. So there you are. The first post, Jesus aside, is a non sequitur.

Re: the virgin births, I'm not saying that all those figures were born of virgins. I'm only saying that claims were made at various times that they were. Genghis Khan, for example, during his lifetime, was able to get people to believe that he was born of a virgin. As I recall, Romulus was born of Mars and a woman, but it did not involve intercourse. Rather, his presence impregnated her.

Alexander was another. Although it is known that he had a father and a mother, the claim existed that he was born of a virgin. Don't ask me where that got started.
I find nothing to support that the presence of Mars made her with child.  Also, Horus is the child of Isis with her slain husband Osiris. She reconstructed his body after Set dismembered him and the his penis in the Nile.  She fashioned a golden one for her rembiodied husband which she mated with to conceive Horus, not a virgin birth.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2013, 11:06:19 AM »
I just looked at it. It appears to be a site dedicated to all faiths, including Atheism. I'll have to have a look at it later. For now, I have to catch the bus. So I shall close this down for now. Talk to you all later.

Just to be clear. The prefix "a" in atheism suggests a lack of faith. Not faith.

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Nimp

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2013, 03:24:39 PM »
I just looked at it. It appears to be a site dedicated to all faiths, including Atheism. I'll have to have a look at it later. For now, I have to catch the bus. So I shall close this down for now. Talk to you all later.

Just to be clear. The prefix "a" in atheism suggests a lack of faith. Not faith.

Atheism (Def): 1. the theory or belief that God does not exist.

Believing that God doesn't exist despite such a being not being proven to not exist is a religious belief.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2013, 03:36:10 PM »
I just looked at it. It appears to be a site dedicated to all faiths, including Atheism. I'll have to have a look at it later. For now, I have to catch the bus. So I shall close this down for now. Talk to you all later.

Just to be clear. The prefix "a" in atheism suggests a lack of faith. Not faith.

Atheism (Def): 1. the theory or belief that God does not exist.

Believing that God doesn't exist despite such a being not being proven to not exist is a religious belief.

Google:

a∑the∑ist
ˈāTHēˌist/
noun
noun: atheist; plural noun: atheists

    1.
    a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Merriam Webster:

athe∑ism
noun \ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
Definition of ATHEISM
a :  a disbelief in the existence of deity
b :  the doctrine that there is no deity

dictionary.com:

a∑the∑ist
[ey-thee-ist] Show IPA
noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

a- or  ( before a vowel ) an- 1
 
ó prefix
   not; without;


The prefix "a" means "without". In this case it means "without" theism.
Much like a-gnostic which means "without" knowing.
Much like a-symmetry means "without" symmetry.
Much like a-tonal means "without" key.
Much like a-social means "without" social interation.


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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2013, 03:48:38 PM »
He knows all that. He will continue posting those things as long as you are willing to waste your time refuting them.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2013, 07:08:39 PM »
He knows all that. He will continue posting those things as long as you are willing to waste your time refuting them.

Feeding the trolls seems to have become fashionable here on FES.

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2013, 10:04:26 PM »
I kind of like that Nimp's threads sometimes unintentionally start these bizarre debates between other members of the site.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2013, 10:43:38 PM »
It can definitely prove interesting. Incidentally, having done some checking, I do stand corrected on several points. Romulus, Genghis Khan, and Confucius were NOT claimed to have been born of virgins. Nor was Ra. Alexander was. Krishna was, but roundabout. Buddha was. Adonis and Tammuz were. Mithras and Zoroaster had various claims made for them, both of virgin births and other methods, depending on source. I apologise for being so inaccurate. Not one of my finer moments. Tammuz, Adonis, and Mithras were dying and rising saving figures. There is some debate as to whether there is a historical germ of truth to these figures' existence. The fundamental point, I think, is the fact that Jesus, while definitely a historic figure, was mythologised into a god.

Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2013, 02:44:12 AM »
I kind of like that Nimp's threads sometimes unintentionally start these bizarre debates between other members of the site.

I disagree.

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Alchemist21

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2013, 06:01:37 AM »
To respond to the OP, school's job is to teach mainstream science and keep lectures separate from religious teachings.  If it were a class on Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, then Creation could be taught in that class.  Otherwise, in a science class, it's the most scientifically accepted theory that gets taught, with the disclaimer at the start of the lesson that it is just a theory and nobody in attendance has to believe it if they choose not to.
tfes.org

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2013, 07:07:52 AM »
It can definitely prove interesting. Incidentally, having done some checking, I do stand corrected on several points. Romulus, Genghis Khan, and Confucius were NOT claimed to have been born of virgins. Nor was Ra. Alexander was. Krishna was, but roundabout. Buddha was. Adonis and Tammuz were. Mithras and Zoroaster had various claims made for them, both of virgin births and other methods, depending on source. I apologise for being so inaccurate. Not one of my finer moments. Tammuz, Adonis, and Mithras were dying and rising saving figures. There is some debate as to whether there is a historical germ of truth to these figures' existence. The fundamental point, I think, is the fact that Jesus, while definitely a historic figure, was mythologised into a god.
Adonis (Tammuz in Arabic) didn't die for anyone.  He was murdered out of jealousy with a boar as the weapon.  I'm also fairly certain that a bull sacrifice is central to the belief of Mithras.  Also, Krishna was not born to a virgin, his mother already have seven children, he was conceived immaculately however.  I'm also seeing nothing to suggest Buddha was born to a virgin, but I'll again give you the immaculate conception.  Alexander as a few accounts of his birth, from conception on his parents' wedding night to his mother being pregnant prior to the wedding night.  I'm not denying that Jesus is seen as an aspect of God, in fact that is key to the Christian belief seeing as he is the son of God.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2013, 07:14:02 AM »
To respond to the OP, school's job is to teach mainstream science and keep lectures separate from religious teachings.  If it were a class on Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, then Creation could be taught in that class.  Otherwise, in a science class, it's the most scientifically accepted theory that gets taught, with the disclaimer at the start of the lesson that it is just a theory and nobody in attendance has to believe it if they choose not to.

The disclaimer shouldn't even need to be mentioned in a science class. The disclaimer exists in science 101 when students are taught what the scientific method is. As long as the definition of a theory is understood then the PC motions of reminding everyone about this isn't necessary.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2013, 08:37:50 AM »
I kind of like that Nimp's threads sometimes unintentionally start these bizarre debates between other members of the site.

I enjoy some of the discussions, too. Same with some of Tom's threads.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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Space Cowgirl

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2013, 08:41:45 AM »
To respond to the OP, school's job is to teach mainstream science and keep lectures separate from religious teachings.  If it were a class on Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, then Creation could be taught in that class.  Otherwise, in a science class, it's the most scientifically accepted theory that gets taught, with the disclaimer at the start of the lesson that it is just a theory and nobody in attendance has to believe it if they choose not to.

A scientific theory isn't "just a theory".  It's not a guess in the way you might make a guess about something and say "I have a theory about that".  A scientific theory is made up of facts that have been tested, repeatedly.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

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rottingroom

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Re: Christian Theism has not been falsified yet
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2013, 08:42:27 AM »
I kind of like that Nimp's threads sometimes unintentionally start these bizarre debates between other members of the site.

I enjoy some of the discussions, too. Same with some of Tom's threads.

Same with me and that is why I respond. I don't care if he is a troll, I think I have an interesting response to what could be considered an interesting question.

You can even say that EJ is a troll when he talks about America not being a continent but there was some interesting responses to that where we got very succint definitions of continents, we talked about classifications of rivers, nomadic history and more.

Taken further, God maybe a complete illusion and as an atheist I am inclined to agree with that but still I find that discussing gods existence or lack thereof to be extremely interesting.