Can we stop all this ignorance please?

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Rama Set

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2013, 10:37:28 AM »
Young Earth Creationism is the worst sort of pseudoscience. As someone with a working knowledge of geology, I'm rather offended that it exists.

Ironic, since you can find atheists and YEC laughing together about the absurdity of FET.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Cartesian

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2013, 10:48:55 AM »
You are saying that you believe this is all faked, that no one has been to outer space?

If you had to bet on it, with you life. If God held a gun to your head and said: "You must choose, and if you are wrong I pull the trigger. So decide, have humans been to space?"

You are telling me that your honest answer, bet with your life, would be: No?

I.....am speechless.

I think the majority of FEers here do not accept space flight manned or not is even possible since picture of Earth taken from space demonstrate a round earth
I think, therefore I am

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Tausami

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2013, 11:19:41 AM »
Young Earth Creationism is the worst sort of pseudoscience. As someone with a working knowledge of geology, I'm rather offended that it exists.

Ironic, since you can find atheists and YEC laughing together about the absurdity of FET.

Only out of ignorance. Flat Earth Theory is several orders of magnitude more scientific than YEC, regardless of your opinion on the shape of the Earth.

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g el

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #33 on: October 15, 2013, 02:44:07 PM »
There is quite a big difference between teaching what is currently thought to be correct, based on the data provided by the latest technology and experimentation, and teaching what can easily be proven to be incorrect.

The only reason a thing like the FES continues is because it is hard to prove to a skeptical individual that the Earth is round.  That is not to say that it would not be simple to do so, for simple and easy are not the same.  All you would have do is bring all of them to the ISS and leave them up there with a window to look out of for a few orbits.  Unfortunately, that would be extremely costly and frankly not worth the expense.
Not to mention that no ordinary person is ever going to get the opportunity even if they were filthy rich lottery winners.


Got $ 20 million? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth#Spaceflight

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The Captain

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #34 on: October 15, 2013, 10:22:23 PM »
Until a 'scientist' is able to explain how something can be made from nothing, all that talk of big-bangs etc is just magic.

Actually there are explanations for this. On a quantum level things pop in and out of existence all the time... It is actually required for  most current models to work. Look it up it's extremely interesting.

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Isidor

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2013, 10:37:44 PM »
Do you know what you call "Alternative Science" that's true?

SCIENCE

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JiffyJuff

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2013, 05:10:55 AM »
Young Earth Creationism is the worst sort of pseudoscience. As someone with a working knowledge of geology, I'm rather offended that it exists.

Hmmm. As I see that you ARE educated, I'm pretty sure my argument will be at least somewhat convincing.


Look. I've never studied geology. I don't believe in Young Earth Creationism because I generally don't believe in god, not because I have a degree in geology.

Apparently, your knowledge in geology goes against YEC to the point that you are offended. You can't understand why these people don't go and get an education in geology, and realize that their theory is absolute BS. That's what you feel. It's just so obvious to you. But to people who don't study much in that field, they stick to their belief if they were brought up that way.

The same way, to everyone who have a clear understanding how perspective, motion and physics work, FE is their respective "worst pseudoscience". They redirect you to wikipedia articles, scientific journals, famous experiments, and you don't see what it proves or find non-existent holes in them. In the same way, all of the people with physics degrees feel frustrated and think that it's "obvious".

Everything is a matter of perspective. Once someone gets a good grasp on all of the sciences, it will be clear why the world can't be 6000 years old, why the 911 incident was not a government plot, why the earth isn't flat and why their light bulb lights up.



Back on topic, that excerpt was a bit rude. To someone who already believes in mainstream science, it's a good rant. But for people who DON'T believe in mainstream science, the logic goes:

You're wrong,

Therefore you shouldn't teach your stupid misinformation at school.

This is very offending, as it looks like he's being a self-centered idiot stating that something is wrong "because it is". I can understand why many FEers are offended by your post.


Edit:
Ævan

1. FET is not a theory. It is a hypothesis and it is incorrect.

2. Scientists aren't changing their mind per se. They are making better estimates based on experimentation and observation being influenced by nothing other than honesty.

3. I do not accept blindly. This again is not how science works. Every experiment can be repeated. It is the entire point.

Anyways, I have to go for a drive go down a waterslide.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 05:14:30 AM by JiffyJuff »
The thing that makes things fall is the weight of the object falling.
Wow.

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Thork

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2013, 03:17:40 PM »
Well then where did the flat earth come from? You have a serious paradox here.
Not if there is a creator, I don't.

Also, interesting fact, particles are constantly popping in and out of existence in a vacuum all the time.
Why? Where do they come from? How do they form in the first place?

Unfortunately for all your science, the best answer even today is still "God made them", whether you like it or not.

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Rama Set

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2013, 03:32:54 PM »
God made them is a terrible answer. The best answer is "I don't know". It's honest and accurate and devoid of delusion or wishful thinking.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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SeekerOfTruth

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2013, 06:27:55 PM »
Well then where did the flat earth come from? You have a serious paradox here.
Not if there is a creator, I don't.

Also, interesting fact, particles are constantly popping in and out of existence in a vacuum all the time.
Why? Where do they come from? How do they form in the first place?

Unfortunately for all your science, the best answer even today is still "God made them", whether you like it or not.

Yes, okay, that's fine. But this does not help to support our FET. RE'ers can just say that god made a round earth, that he made it SEEM flat only to test our faith. This demotes improving our knowledge to belief without evidence. We don't need evidence, because god just made it that way. Fine, we can extend this logic further: All of your ideas are wrong because I believe something else. You believe something else than me? Sorry, it wrong according to my faith.

You see? Now there is nothing more to say. We have nothing to contribute here anymore. We can just go home and be self-righteous in our belief.

A sad, lonely existence, if you ask me.....but that is just my belief.

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Rama Set

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2013, 06:47:58 PM »
Surely, if there is a god, she did everything and apparently according to some selected laws that we have been able to decipher. Deciphering these laws is the goal of deistic, theistic and atheistic scientists alike. The problem with "God did it." is that it does not satisfy the scientific question of "How was it done?"  It basically leaves you where you started.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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SeekerOfTruth

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2013, 06:55:14 PM »
Surely, if there is a god, she did everything and apparently according to some selected laws that we have been able to decipher. Deciphering these laws is the goal of deistic, theistic and atheistic scientists alike. The problem with "God did it." is that it does not satisfy the scientific question of "How was it done?"  It basically leaves you where you started.

"She?" Ahhhhhh, I see what you did there. Clever Rama Set.

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Rama Set

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2013, 07:00:00 PM »
I thought you'd like that.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Thork

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2013, 11:24:40 AM »
Ævan

1. FET is not a theory. It is a hypothesis and it is incorrect.
FET stands for Flat Earth Theory. If it was a hypothesis, it would be FEH, wouldn't it?  ::)
http://www.universetoday.com/48753/flat-earth-theory/
Its a theory. Deal with it.

2. Scientists aren't changing their mind per se.
Weasel words.

3. I do not accept blindly. This again is not how science works. Every experiment can be repeated. It is the entire point.
The big bang can't be replicated. Its a theory, like flat earth theory, but you are happy to consider that as science. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see. Fortunately we are here to hold your eyelids open.

God made them is a terrible answer. The best answer is "I don't know". It's honest and accurate and devoid of delusion or wishful thinking.
Its not an answer I see Richard Dawkins or Steven Hawking reaching for very often though.  :-\

The problem with "God did it." is that it does not satisfy the scientific question of "How was it done?"  It basically leaves you where you started.
No more so than any science answer. Big bangs, steady state theory, bubble distribution, inflation theory, The Hawking-Turok Instanton Theory ... it all has the same problem. Why and how do you get something from nothing?

Ævan, read "A Universe From Nothing" and Lawrence Krauss goes through all the evidence, in layman's terms, that provide the basis for the Big Bang. He also proposes a scientifically plausible method for a universe to arise from nothing: no space, no time, no stuff, no laws of physics.
You mean he made up a story you like the sound of? He's a THEORETICAL physicist. He theorises. He does not prove. He's no more than a space philosopher. 

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rottingroom

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2013, 11:34:54 AM »
Ævan

1. FET is not a theory. It is a hypothesis and it is incorrect.
FET stands for Flat Earth Theory. If it was a hypothesis, it would be FEH, wouldn't it?  ::)
http://www.universetoday.com/48753/flat-earth-theory/
Its a theory. Deal with it.

2. Scientists aren't changing their mind per se.
Weasel words.

3. I do not accept blindly. This again is not how science works. Every experiment can be repeated. It is the entire point.
The big bang can't be replicated. Its a theory, like flat earth theory, but you are happy to consider that as science. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see. Fortunately we are here to hold your eyelids open.

God made them is a terrible answer. The best answer is "I don't know". It's honest and accurate and devoid of delusion or wishful thinking.
Its not an answer I see Richard Dawkins or Steven Hawking reaching for very often though.  :-\

The problem with "God did it." is that it does not satisfy the scientific question of "How was it done?"  It basically leaves you where you started.
No more so than any science answer. Big bangs, steady state theory, bubble distribution, inflation theory, The Hawking-Turok Instanton Theory ... it all has the same problem. Why and how do you get something from nothing?

Ævan, read "A Universe From Nothing" and Lawrence Krauss goes through all the evidence, in layman's terms, that provide the basis for the Big Bang. [b/]He also proposes a scientifically plausible method for a universe to arise from nothing: no space, no time, no stuff, no laws of physics.
You mean he made up a story you like the sound of? He's a THEORETICAL physicist. He theorises. He does not prove. He's no more than a space philosopher.

1. Notice how Universe Today begins speaking about FET with the words "Flat Earth Theory WAS..."?

This is because it WAS, however today it is not. It has been demoted to less than a hypothesis. It's actually just a plain false statement.

2. Weasel words?

3. The big bang theory is a theory. I don't know why you are so confused about the definition of scientific theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

4. Richard Dawkins actually does state that he doesn't know. "I don't know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic_probability#Dawkins.27_formulation

5. Science does the best it can with what humans are currently capable of. There is no claim on the contrary. Anything Science doesn't know, it freely admits. Just because something isn't known does not put the question in God's hands.


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Rabhimself

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2013, 12:05:51 PM »
Until a 'scientist' is able to explain how something can be made from nothing, all that talk of big-bangs etc is just magic.

And if that day ever comes, people like you will just take a step back and ask, ''Well, what caused that then?  No answer yet?  Must be God''. 

There is absolutely no shame in saying we do not know, or do not understand something yet.  Not knowing and not understanding are not synonymous with science being bullshit or evidence for supernatural beings. 

Nice attempt at the thread rottingroom, but this forum is a fortress of ignorance.

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Rama Set

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2013, 01:12:32 PM »
God made them is a terrible answer. The best answer is "I don't know". It's honest and accurate and devoid of delusion or wishful thinking.
Its not an answer I see Richard Dawkins or Steven Hawking reaching for very often though.  :-\[/quote]

So what?

The problem with "God did it." is that it does not satisfy the scientific question of "How was it done?"  It basically leaves you where you started.
No more so than any science answer. Big bangs, steady state theory, bubble distribution, inflation theory, The Hawking-Turok Instanton Theory ... it all has the same problem. Why and how do you get something from nothing?[/quote]

We do not know how the Big Bang was caused, true, I never disputed that. However the answer to the question, "How was the Big Bang caused?" is not answered by "God did it."  All that answer does is beg the question, "How did God do it?"  That is what I said.

Ævan, read "A Universe From Nothing" and Lawrence Krauss goes through all the evidence, in layman's terms, that provide the basis for the Big Bang. He also proposes a scientifically plausible method for a universe to arise from nothing: no space, no time, no stuff, no laws of physics.
You mean he made up a story you like the sound of? He's a THEORETICAL physicist. He theorises. He does not prove. He's no more than a space philosopher.
[/quote][/quote]

I did like the story.  You will also notice upon re-reading my post that I never said this was anything more than a plausible method.  I never once said it was backed up by evidence, did I?  However, considering there is no evidence for either answer, I will take a scientifically plausible answer over a supernatural answer any day thank you. 

On a side note, I am not sure why you are derisive of theoretical physicists, it does seem you do not really understand what they do though.  They propose scientifically testable hypotheses for experimenters to test.  Richard Feynman, for example, won a Nobel Prize for his development of QED, the most accurate scientific theory in history.  He did not experimentally test it, but without his contribution, scientists would still be toiling on problems which we have in fact long since left behind.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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JiffyJuff

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2013, 01:20:37 AM »

3. I do not accept blindly. This again is not how science works. Every experiment can be repeated. It is the entire point.
The big bang can't be replicated. Its a theory, like flat earth theory, but you are happy to consider that as science. There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see. Fortunately we are here to hold your eyelids open.


Notice he said experiment. Are you claiming that the Big Bang is an experiment?
The tests that suggest the existence of the Big Bang can be repeated. Red shift, background radiation etc.
The thing that makes things fall is the weight of the object falling.
Wow.

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blnjms

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2013, 07:27:29 PM »

[/quote]

Well then where did the flat earth come from? You have a serious paradox here.

[/quote]

Flat earth came from people not knowing better because, of course, the earth appears flat to anyone standing on it. I don't see how most "primitives" (I think some ancient Greeks were ahead of their time) could have thought otherwise, though there were some odd ideas about the universe.

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2013, 08:29:31 PM »
Just to add one general thought to this discussion: Whenever someone claims that the Earth is flat, they are called "ignorant". However, I am absolutely sure that a large percentage (above 90%) of the population in all developed countries would not be able to provide a proof that the Earth is a sphere that is in accordance with the alleged proofs provided by mainstream science. And I don't count "Go to space and take a picture!" here, because I want proof that can be reproduced by an average person. Allegedly, such simple proofs exist in mainstream science, yet, like I said, most people would not be able to provide such a proof if you stopped them on the street and asked them. I dare you to try it if you think otherwise.

In fact, I have seen many people give "proofs" that were easily refuted and where even mainstream scientists would have bashed their heads into a wall. And many people would eventually probably admit that their teacher simply told them so, so it must be correct.

Yet, it is the flat-earthers who are described as "ignorant"? In my opinion, it is more ignorant to accept some statement as a basic fact without being able to actually prove it than rejecting it outright and using the basic perception of our senses as default assumption. I might be an anomaly among flat-earthers, but I am an atheist. I will not accept the assumption that there is a god without accompanying proof. In the same way, I will not accept the assumption that the Earth is a sphere without accompanying proof. However, large parts of the population do. And that to me is akin to a religious belief. If you determine why people believe in a god, you will find that most of them simply accepted the statement "There is a god!" from their parents. In the same way, people simply accept the statement "The Earth is a sphere."

So if someone wants to stop ignorance, they should start with the people who actually do believe that the Earth is a sphere. If the Earth is indeed a sphere, then we flat-earthers are simply a strange anomaly, a sadly small bunch of misled people. Such people are easily ignored. However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

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Rabhimself

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2013, 12:01:26 AM »
Just to add one general thought to this discussion: Whenever someone claims that the Earth is flat, they are called "ignorant". However, I am absolutely sure that a large percentage (above 90%) of the population in all developed countries would not be able to provide a proof that the Earth is a sphere that is in accordance with the alleged proofs provided by mainstream science. And I don't count "Go to space and take a picture!" here, because I want proof that can be reproduced by an average person. Allegedly, such simple proofs exist in mainstream science, yet, like I said, most people would not be able to provide such a proof if you stopped them on the street and asked them. I dare you to try it if you think otherwise.

In fact, I have seen many people give "proofs" that were easily refuted and where even mainstream scientists would have bashed their heads into a wall. And many people would eventually probably admit that their teacher simply told them so, so it must be correct.

Yet, it is the flat-earthers who are described as "ignorant"? In my opinion, it is more ignorant to accept some statement as a basic fact without being able to actually prove it than rejecting it outright and using the basic perception of our senses as default assumption. I might be an anomaly among flat-earthers, but I am an atheist. I will not accept the assumption that there is a god without accompanying proof. In the same way, I will not accept the assumption that the Earth is a sphere without accompanying proof. However, large parts of the population do. And that to me is akin to a religious belief. If you determine why people believe in a god, you will find that most of them simply accepted the statement "There is a god!" from their parents. In the same way, people simply accept the statement "The Earth is a sphere."

So if someone wants to stop ignorance, they should start with the people who actually do believe that the Earth is a sphere. If the Earth is indeed a sphere, then we flat-earthers are simply a strange anomaly, a sadly small bunch of misled people. Such people are easily ignored. However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

You're not the first FE proponent to play this style of card, and the short response is that even if a RE proponent cannot personally verify their claim, they are more than entitled to believe the earth is round due to how substantiated the claim is.  There is an absolute wealth of evidence available, evidence that is out-right foolish to discard just because you cannot personally verify it - photographs and videos come to mind, as does the existence of satellite based technologies.

Furthermore, everybody has clearly visible evidence to suggest that at the very least the earth certainly isn't flat.  The horizon is simply the point where the earth begins to curve out of view.  Any other suggestion involving bendy light, the atmosphere's opacity, etc, etc - that's all nonsense.  The most simple answer is that the earth is curving out of view.  I'm not going to get into the debate about the ship 'rising' out of the ocean but it honestly takes mental gymnastics to believe anything other than the horizon is exactly what the vast majority of the population believe it to be - because that's what it is. 

Carl Sagan once said,  'It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out.' 

You are effectively claiming nobody should believe anything unless they can personally verify it, and oh boy, what an intellectually dangerous position that is.  Can you imagine a world where evidence provided for statements was never accepted because people didn't come up with said evidence personally?  Are you actually serious?

We breathe oxygen - fact or fiction?
The molecular formula for water is H2O - fact of fiction?
Kangaroo's exist - fact or fiction?

Honestly - that list is effectively endless.  The amount of things people 'know' without ever being able to personally verify it is astronomical.  However, they all have something in common.  Evidence - all of these things can be demonstrated as true, even if you cannot personally verify it. 

Your position on the existence of god is not analogous because there is no proof to suggest one exists.  RE theory is not an assumption, it is a certainty and the amount of supporting evidence for it (personally verifiable or not) is huge.  Not only that, all the pieces of said evidence interlock and support each other.  That's rather convenient for a conspiracy isn't it?

In a nutshell, don't pretend that disbelief in something because you can't personally verify whatever 'something' is, is always the intellectual high-ground.  It most certainly isn't.

However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

This statement just isn't true.  Yes, the first time you are told the earth is round it will be from an authoritative figure - but there is proof behind the statement, a lot of it at that.

People who disregard hard evidence on the grounds that they can't test it themselves, instead favouring wild, unsubstantiated, bronze-age theories that ironically have little to no proof - now that's a problem.

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2013, 07:53:48 AM »
You're not the first FE proponent to play this style of card, Yeah, I did as well.

The horizon is simply the point where the earth begins to curve out of view. [/b]  No, the horizon is where the enormous sky meets the farthest distance your eyes can see.

You are effectively claiming nobody should believe anything unless they can personally verify it, and oh boy, what an intellectually dangerous position that is.[/b] No, he's talking about one thing....the Earth.

Your position on the existence of god is not analogous because there is no proof to suggest one exists.  RE theory is not an assumption, it is a certainty and the amount of supporting evidence for it (personally verifiable or not) is huge.[/b] There is no proof the Earth is a sphere.  Believing in a creator is not the same as religion. There IS proof of a creator....us, the Earth.....EVERYTHING.  WE CREATE and destroy.

However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

This statement just isn't true.  Yes, the first time you are told the earth is round it will be from an authoritative figure - but there is proof behind the statement, a lot of it at that. I disagree. We are told the Earth is a sphere when we are too young to fully understand the science and even if we could, we will never be able to discover if it's true.  But the simple fact that the idea was planted into our brain, it then becomes part of our reality because we trust the authority figure, making it more difficult to break out of that idea if we ever decide to question it in the future.  It's the SAME as religion.  It's not fair to tell a child what to believe spiritually.  They need to discover the truth on their own.[/b]
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 08:02:26 AM by EarthIsASpaceship »

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Rabhimself

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2013, 08:17:47 AM »
You're not the first FE proponent to play this style of card, Yeah, I did as well.

The horizon is simply the point where the earth begins to curve out of view.   No, the horizon is where the enormous sky meets the farthest distance your eyes can see.

You are effectively claiming nobody should believe anything unless they can personally verify it, and oh boy, what an intellectually dangerous position that is. 

Your position on the existence of god is not analogous because there is no proof to suggest one exists.  RE theory is not an assumption, it is a certainty and the amount of supporting evidence for it (personally verifiable or not) is huge. There is no proof the Earth is a sphere.  Believing in a creator is not the same as religion. There IS proof of a creator....us! The Earth.....EVERYTHING.  WE CREATE and destroy.[color]
However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

This statement just isn't true.  Yes, the first time you are told the earth is round it will be from an authoritative figure - but there is proof behind the statement, a lot of it at that. I disagree. It is  We are told the Earth is a sphere when we are too young to fully understand the science and even if we could, we will never be able to discover if it's true.  But the simple fact that the idea was planted into our brain, it then becomes part of our reality because we trust the authority figure, making it more difficult to break out of that idea if we ever decide to question it in the future.  It's the SAME as religion.  It's not fair to tell a child what to believe spiritually.  They need to discover the truth on their own.

Nonsense regarding the horizon.  If that were the case then there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why, on a clear day, the separation between flat land (or indeed water) should be so fine and sharp.  Secondly, your claim intrinsically implies that a telescope would overcome this human limitation - it simply does not, there's no way getting around this.  There are images out there of skyscraper tops being clearly visible above the horizon, yet the bases are not - feel free to search for yourself.

Another common cop-out is that the atmosphere itself will stop your view - maybe it would, but not at a horizon distance.  Also, we can see the moon and that's looking through about 62 miles of atmosphere, not to mention it's much, much further away than the horizon yet our eyes seem to manage just fine here, same goes for commercial aircraft. 

The moon is really big you say?  Ok, I'll accept that despite the fact you still have to look through the atmosphere and it's still hundreds of thousands of kilometres away.  What about the ISS?  That thing that some people on here love to deny exists?  Under the right conditions it can be seen with the naked eye - you won't see any detail, but you can still see an object over 200 miles away.

Finally, why on earth (pun intended, no apologies) would I be able to see further into the distance the higher I go?  Hmmm.  Puzzling.

Like I said, mental gymnastics is what it takes to deny the horizon is the earth curving.

As for there being  'no proof the earth is a sphere' - I'm not even going to begin with this, but I'll coin the phrase mental gymnastics again.

You're actually a perfect candidate to exemplify the mental gymnastics I speak of.  To say there is no proof of a round earth is astonishingly closed-minded.  It's all there - it's not my fault that you don't believe it.

The only convincing piece of 'evidence' for a flat earth is that by standing here on the ground, it seems flat.  However, the same would be true (and is true) if you had an impeccably small perspective, from ground level, on a giant sphere - like every living organism on the planet does.  So there goes the ambiguous flat earth evidence.

Everything else points to the truth, and like I said in the original post, they oh-so-conveniently interlock and support one another.

What a dreadful, dreadful coincidence for the FE proponents.  Of all the rotten luck, it just all happens to seem like it's all related, right?  What a shame.  Conspiracy 1 - FES 0, yeah?

« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 08:23:24 AM by Rabhimself »

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2013, 08:39:41 AM »
Oh will this ever end? (sigh)  ::)  This is why we stop responding...it's exhausting going over this stuff over and over again.  In fact, I'm not going to respond to all that.  I'm going to show you in a video or diagram instead. You're going to feel so dumb after you see it.  I feel embarrassed for you already.  And it's FARTHER, not "further".

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rottingroom

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #54 on: October 26, 2013, 08:44:20 AM »
Earth... you stop responding because your position is untenable. Which makes sense because you believe the earth is round.

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11cookeaw1

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #55 on: October 26, 2013, 09:44:21 AM »
You're not the first FE proponent to play this style of card, Yeah, I did as well.

The horizon is simply the point where the earth begins to curve out of view. [/b]  No, the horizon is where the enormous sky meets the farthest distance your eyes can see.

You are effectively claiming nobody should believe anything unless they can personally verify it, and oh boy, what an intellectually dangerous position that is.[/b] No, he's talking about one thing....the Earth.

Your position on the existence of god is not analogous because there is no proof to suggest one exists.  RE theory is not an assumption, it is a certainty and the amount of supporting evidence for it (personally verifiable or not) is huge.[/b] There is no proof the Earth is a sphere.  Believing in a creator is not the same as religion. There IS proof of a creator....us, the Earth.....EVERYTHING.  WE CREATE and destroy.

However, the people who believe the Earth is a sphere without having even the most basic proof for such an important statement are people who will believe everything that someone in authority told them. They are your real problem.

This statement just isn't true.  Yes, the first time you are told the earth is round it will be from an authoritative figure - but there is proof behind the statement, a lot of it at that. I disagree. We are told the Earth is a sphere when we are too young to fully understand the science and even if we could, we will never be able to discover if it's true.  But the simple fact that the idea was planted into our brain, it then becomes part of our reality because we trust the authority figure, making it more difficult to break out of that idea if we ever decide to question it in the future.  It's the SAME as religion.  It's not fair to tell a child what to believe spiritually.  They need to discover the truth on their own.[/b]
So it's unfair the teach children something that to deny you'd have to imagine up a giant conspiracy. It's unfair to give them any education when they are young? Maybe we should wait until their 10 before we tach them anything and start school.

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #56 on: October 26, 2013, 10:42:00 AM »
Earth... you stop responding because your position is untenable. Which makes sense because you believe the earth is round.
It IS round, I've said that before, AND flat!

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Adolf Hipster

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #57 on: October 26, 2013, 12:33:48 PM »
Earth... you stop responding because your position is untenable. Which makes sense because you believe the earth is round.
It IS round, I've said that before, AND flat!
Could you elaborate on this?

Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #58 on: October 26, 2013, 01:33:28 PM »

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Junker

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Re: Can we stop all this ignorance please?
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2013, 05:20:46 PM »
**** off, this shtick is even worse than "LOL THE EARTH IS A CUBE". You're even worse than rottingroom.

C'mon PP, not in the upper, please.