Can anyone answer this question.

Empty space.

And what is empty space?

Ok then, let's make it simple. If all matter does not exist on this earth, what would this earth be?

This is a wrong premise as Earth itself is composed of matter.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:25:29 AM

Ok then, let's make it simple. If all matter does not exist on this earth, what would this earth be?

This is a wrong premise as Earth itself is composed of matter.

How about reading what I said again and absorb it before answering.
Can anyone else understand what I'm asking?
Rama can.

Quote from: Cartesian on October 16, 2013, 09:31:39 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:25:29 AM

Ok then, let's make it simple. If all matter does not exist on this earth, what would this earth be?

This is a wrong premise as Earth itself is composed of matter.

How about reading what I said again and absorb it before answering.
Can anyone else understand what I'm asking?
Rama can.

How about you read again what you have said?

Look it wouldn't be nothing. It would be empty space. That is not nothing. Science doesn't use the term incorrectly but you've soaked it up incorrectly. Nothing cannot live beside something.

Look it wouldn't be nothing. It would be empty space. That is not nothing. Science doesn't use the term incorrectly but you've soaked it up incorrectly. Nothing cannot live beside something.

What is empty space?

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

You answered your own question.

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

No. These are just two different phenomena cause by something else. A fire creates light and sound for instance. Neither creates each other.

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

My LED torch produces light without sound. How can that be possible?

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

I'm not implying I know what happened in the first moments of the big bang. I'm just trying to help you understand the difference between nothing and space because they are not the same thing.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:55:07 AM

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:55:07 AM

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

Weird because I'm pretty sure if you and I were in a dark room you could hear me knock you out just fine without seeing a thing.

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on October 16, 2013, 10:07:35 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

No. These are just two different phenomena cause by something else. A fire creates light and sound for instance. Neither creates each other.

To create a fire you have to create a friction and to create a friction you have to create a vibration and creating this has to start with sound which creates the energy that you see and hear and what not.

  I have nothing to say but "man lost his mind in this strange age".

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

You answered your own question.

This appears to be in violation of the laws of conservation of energy and momentum.  You need to think it through a little further.  I also want to know how I can make rainbows come out of my mouth by singing.

I have nothing to say but "man lost his mind in this strange age".

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

That's hilarious coming from somebody who thinks the earth is flat.

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:10:03 AM

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on October 16, 2013, 10:07:35 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

No. These are just two different phenomena cause by something else. A fire creates light and sound for instance. Neither creates each other.

To create a fire you have to create a friction and to create a friction you have to create a vibration and creating this has to start with sound which creates the energy that you see and hear and what not.

There are many ways to create fire which do not involve friction.  A vibration does not always create sound either.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:14:43 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:55:07 AM

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

Weird because I'm pretty sure if you and I were in a dark room you could hear me knock you out just fine without seeing a thing.

I probably wouldn't hear the punch or feel it. Maybe I would from someone that could punch,  but anyway, if it was dark, then I wouldn't see any light, would I, so that's a bit pointless.

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on October 16, 2013, 10:07:35 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

My LED torch produces light without sound. How can that be possible?

Your ears are not conditioned to hear the sound, that's all.

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:16:21 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:14:43 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:55:07 AM

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

Weird because I'm pretty sure if you and I were in a dark room you could hear me knock you out just fine without seeing a thing.

I probably wouldn't hear the punch or feel it. Maybe I would from someone that could punch,  but anyway, if it was dark, then I wouldn't see any light, would I, so that's a bit pointless.

Yes so the sound of me knocking you out ISN'T producing light. End of story.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

I'm not implying I know what happened in the first moments of the big bang. I'm just trying to help you understand the difference between nothing and space because they are not the same thing.

And I'm trying to help you understand that no matter means no existence.

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:23:50 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:16:21 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:14:43 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 09:55:07 AM

What is empty space?

No air pressure.  Some loose particles of air, dust, asteroids, radiation, and such

Things move about in empty space just fine scepti.  Asteroids, planets, stars, dust, light, individual molecules of air, etc.   It's merely an absence of air pressure. 

Anyway, I'm still curious regarding your view that light is an end product of sound.  If lightning strikes close by, I see and hear it at almost the same time.  If it strikes far away, I see it, and have to wait much longer to hear it.

Myself and a few other did an experiment once with a rifle and a target 400 meters away.  We positioned ourselves off to the side of the target a bit behind some trees.   Someone next to the shooter keyed the mic on a radio as he fired.  We heard the gunshot on our radio, followed a second later by the snap (the bullet was traveling faster than sound) and the bullet impacting, followed a another second later by the actual gunshot sound.

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

Weird because I'm pretty sure if you and I were in a dark room you could hear me knock you out just fine without seeing a thing.

I probably wouldn't hear the punch or feel it. Maybe I would from someone that could punch,  but anyway, if it was dark, then I wouldn't see any light, would I, so that's a bit pointless.

Yes so the sound of me knocking you out ISN'T producing light. End of story.

Why should it?

Energy/vibration and frequency. Your hand produces this in slow motion compared to light producing friction.

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:12:48 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

I'm not implying I know what happened in the first moments of the big bang. I'm just trying to help you understand the difference between nothing and space because they are not the same thing.

And I'm trying to help you understand that no matter means no existence.

You have an experiment or objective observation to back that up, then?  If not, there's no reason to believe such.

To be clear, common sense is not an objective observation, as it's reliant on the person making the observation.

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:12:48 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 16, 2013, 10:11:00 AM

Quote from: rottingroom on October 16, 2013, 10:01:05 AM

Let me help you understand it like this. When the big bang happened space and time began to exist. Before this, there was no space and there was no time. It is theorized that space has a boundary. Before this there was nothing. The space between here and Mars for instance is not that same concept.

Trying to make me understand something like that is incredible, it really is. Why in the hell do you follow this?
The big bang started from nothing, basically. That's what you are implying. Come on, you're smarter than that. What the hell have they done to you people? Have they plugged your heads into the national grid or something?

I'm not implying I know what happened in the first moments of the big bang. I'm just trying to help you understand the difference between nothing and space because they are not the same thing.

And I'm trying to help you understand that no matter means no existence.

Are you talking about life? Cause if you are then this statement is true but what we have been talking about is your problem with space when you say it is nothing. It isn't.

As far as light propagating through space, we've been through that too. Light is not like sound. Light doesn't need a medium because it is both a particle and a wave and because it goes at the speed of light, it doesn't experience time. Light is essentially a timeless time traveler.

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 16, 2013, 10:05:08 AM

Again, how is light the end product of sound when light travels much faster?

You answered your own question.

To know the answer to this, just think about that lightning strike.

To YOU, the sound comes later. In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning and because you are already looking and focused , you see it, then your primitive ears catch the vibration of it.

Does this explain it?

So we can agree then that light and sound are completely different and travel by completely different means.

Quote from: Cartesian on October 16, 2013, 10:12:23 AM

Quote from: EarthIsASpaceship on October 16, 2013, 10:07:35 AM

Quote from: 29silhouette on October 15, 2013, 12:00:12 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on October 15, 2013, 11:43:28 AM

Light is the end product of sound. It cannot propagate unless it has matter to do so, it's impossible and should be logical to comprehend that.

So why can I see something happen in the distance, and not hear it until several seconds have passed?

Remember, light travels faster than sound so you see the light before you hear it.  The light didn't create the sound.  The SOUND created the light.

My LED torch produces light without sound. How can that be possible?

Your ears are not conditioned to hear the sound, that's all.

I have perfectly working ears, thank you. It seems LED produces light due to electrons losing energy (electroluminescence).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode

In the cloud, the sound creates the lightning

This is also interesting.  If the sound created the lightning, what created the sound.