The GOP has gone insane

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Trekky0623

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The GOP has gone insane
« on: October 07, 2013, 10:35:12 AM »
They have. Here's why.

The Affordable Care Act has literally gone through all three branches of the US Government. It went through the House and passed. Then it went to the Senate and passed. Then it went to the President, who signed it. Then it went to the Supreme Court, and it was upheld. It has been quite literally been done by the book, and it's situations like these that were foreseen by the people who wrote the Constitution, which is why they wrote in three branches of government.

But the GOP in the House, for some reason, think they know better than the legislative, executive, and judicial branches, as well as the founding fathers and the Constitution, and have decided to take matters into their own hands and nullify legislation they think shouldn't be law.

What in the world.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 10:48:06 AM »
The GOP controls the house. The house holds the purse strings. These republicans were fairly voted in to these positions and given the power to do this. It is neither ransom or an abuse of power. They were given the power to vote on the federal budget and didn't like the part where Obama was giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to people who did not earn it.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 10:50:22 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 10:57:51 AM »
A child on the west coast wants his parents to let him go on a 2 week long school trip to Washington DC. Mom says yes, and dad says yes. Initially, it seems like a good educational experience. But over time, as the trip nears, the full details come out and when it's time to pay the bill, $3700 for plane trip, hotel, plus expenses, Dad comes to his senses and puts his foot down. The amount is too burdensome for his family to pay in their financial situation.

Why is it wrong for Dad to do this?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 11:01:34 AM by Tom Bishop »

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Trekky0623

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 10:58:23 AM »
The GOP controls the house. The house holds the purse strings. These republicans were fairly voted in to these positions and given the power to do this. It is neither ransom or an abuse of power. They were given the power to vote on the federal budget and didn't like the part where Obama was giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to people who did not earn it.

The continuing resolution and the budget is not supposed to be used to nullify legislation. And if this succeeds, it creates a precedent where a majority in the house, or heck, a minority in the Senate, could grind the federal government to a halt whenever there is legislation they'd rather not have.

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Trekky0623

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 10:59:26 AM »
A child on the west coast wants his parents to let him go on a 2 week long school trip to Washington DC. Mom says yes, and dad says yes. Initially, it seems like a good educational experience. But over time, as the trip nears, the full details come out and when it's time to pay the bill, $3500 for plane trip, hotel, plus expenses, Dad comes to his senses and puts his foot down. The amount too burdensome for his family to pay in their financial situation.

Why is it wrong for Dad to do this?

A family isn't a democracy, and "Dad" is not a branch of government.

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Lorddave

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 11:01:32 AM »
The GOP controls the house. The house holds the purse strings. These republicans were fairly voted in to these positions and given the power to do this. It is neither ransom or an abuse of power. They were given the power to vote on the federal budget and didn't like the part where Obama was giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to people who did not earn it.
Actually, while the GOP do control the house, they don't control 100% of the house.  They have a slim majority.  And IF the house majority leader were to put up a "clean bill" for vote, it's likely that it would pass.  Which is why he isn't. 

So why is he not putting it up for vote?
The 30 Tea Party members.  If he does something they don't want (put a clean bill up for vote) they will stop supporting him.  If that occurs he'll likely be voted out of his position.


So tell me:
If a leader refuses to allow a vote for the sole purpose of saving his job, what does that make him?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Rushy

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 11:05:40 AM »
OP thinks once a law is made no one should be allowed to mess with it, even if it is unpopular with half the country. What a retart.

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rottingroom

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 11:22:12 AM »
Why is it so hard to understand? If you don't like a law you can repeal it and see what happens.

Rushy says "OP thinks no one should be able to mess with it". They aren't just messing with it alone, they are messing with everything besides the law.

Tom says this is dad putting his foot down. No, this is dad refusing to let his son go on the trip by blowing up the airport.

The president will not negotiate with terrorists.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 11:44:14 AM »
Are the other two threads we have on this subject not enough or something?

They were given the power to vote on the federal budget and didn't like the part where Obama was giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to people who did not earn it.

That's not what happened, Tom.  We've been over this.  The ACA has already been funded.  The GOP aren't refusing to fund the ACA itself with the shutdown, they're refusing to fund the rest of the government as leverage to try and force the rest of Congress to repeal it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 11:46:44 AM »
That's not what happened, Tom.  We've been over this.  The ACA has already been funded.  The GOP aren't refusing to fund the ACA itself with the shutdown, they're refusing to fund the rest of the government as leverage to try and force the rest of Congress to repeal it.

Before the shutdown the house leaders sent a bill to the Senate to fund the government without the financial burden of Obamacare. It was rejected. The Senate are the ones who shut down the government in the name of Obamacare.

The house is simply exercising fiscal responsibility. The Senate is insisting on this deranged program which will hurt businesses, hurt the poor, and hurt the American economy. Since the million page Obamacare bill was first introduced years ago a lot of bad press was found out about it as the details were sorted and the consequences were weighed. Having time to go though a law and discussing all of its merits is the standard process of government. This is the final process, final funding by the house, and Obamacare failed the mark.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:39:30 PM by Tom Bishop »

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DuckDodgers

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 11:54:20 AM »
That's not what happened, Tom.  We've been over this.  The ACA has already been funded.  The GOP aren't refusing to fund the ACA itself with the shutdown, they're refusing to fund the rest of the government as leverage to try and force the rest of Congress to repeal it.

Before the shutdown the house leaders sent a bill to the Senate to fund the government without the financial burden of Obamacare. It was rejected. The Senate are the ones who shut down the government in the name of Obamacare.

The house is simply exercising fiscal responsibility. The Senate are insisting on this deranged program which will hurt businesses, hurt the poor, and hurt the American economy. Since the million page Obamacare bill was first introduced years ago a lot of bad press was found out about it as the details were sorted and the consequences were weighed. Having time to go though a law and discussing all of its merits is the standard process of government. This is the final process, final funding by the house, and Obamacare failed the mark.
The House is insisting on this deranged strategy which is hurting businesses, hurting middle class, and hurting the American economy as we speak.  All in the name of saving face with the Tea Party as a last ditch effort to show they are still against Obamacare.  There are ways to legally repeal laws, they have tried and failed that way.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 02:22:46 PM »
The House is insisting on this deranged strategy which is hurting businesses, hurting middle class, and hurting the American economy as we speak.  All in the name of saving face with the Tea Party as a last ditch effort to show they are still against Obamacare.  There are ways to legally repeal laws, they have tried and failed that way.

This is also a legal way to repeal the law. This is not illegal. Demanding concessions in the federal budget is entirely fair game. One side wants to sink the tax payers with more debt and higher taxes and the other side does not.

The house holds the purse strings. The house decides which programs ultimately get funded or not. They were democratically elected into this position fairly. They are going to these measures of shutting down the government and threatening default because Obama is flatly refusing to negotiate on Obamacare and on the debt ceiling.

Obama does not get to have his way or the highway. He is not king and master of the government. No modern president has flatly refused to negotiate with the other side. Government works by both sides being willing to engage in compromise.

Time and time again negotiations are refused. The GOP is taking a stand to fight the tyranny and irresponsibility of the democrats.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:32:16 PM by Tom Bishop »

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 02:28:44 PM »
A child on the west coast wants his parents to let him go on a 2 week long school trip to Washington DC. Mom says yes, and dad says yes. Initially, it seems like a good educational experience. But over time, as the trip nears, the full details come out and when it's time to pay the bill, $3700 for plane trip, hotel, plus expenses, Dad comes to his senses and puts his foot down. The amount is too burdensome for his family to pay in their financial situation.

Why is it wrong for Dad to do this?

Because the Mom and Grandpa are okay with spending grandpa's money on the trip.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 03:04:47 PM »
A child on the west coast wants his parents to let him go on a 2 week long school trip to Washington DC. Mom says yes, and dad says yes. Initially, it seems like a good educational experience. But over time, as the trip nears, the full details come out and when it's time to pay the bill, $3700 for plane trip, hotel, plus expenses, Dad comes to his senses and puts his foot down. The amount is too burdensome for his family to pay in their financial situation.

Why is it wrong for Dad to do this?

Because the Mom and Grandpa are okay with spending grandpa's money on the trip.

Please don't indulge his ridiculous analogy.  It's too stupid to merit discussion.

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hoppy

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 04:10:00 PM »
The GOP controls the house. The house holds the purse strings. These republicans were fairly voted in to these positions and given the power to do this. It is neither ransom or an abuse of power. They were given the power to vote on the federal budget and didn't like the part where Obama was giving away hundreds of billions of dollars to people who did not earn it.

The continuing resolution and the budget is not supposed to be used to nullify legislation. And if this succeeds, it creates a precedent where a majority in the house, or heck, a minority in the Senate, could grind the federal government to a halt whenever there is legislation they'd rather not have.
This the way our government is set up to work. Obama and the dems could cave a little.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2013, 04:31:46 PM »
The GOP has not gone insane.  They are as sane as they ever were.  This has nothing to do with a law they feel is unjust.  This has to do with tarnishing Obama's image.  Period.  Otherwise they wouldn't be throwing a tantrum over what is essentially a conservative law in its current form.

Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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markjo

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2013, 04:41:17 PM »
Why is it so hard to understand? If you don't like a law you can repeal it and see what happens.
They tried 42 times to repeal Obamacare and they failed 42 times.  Why is it so hard for them to take a hint?
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hoppy

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2013, 05:55:17 PM »
Why is it so hard to understand? If you don't like a law you can repeal it and see what happens.
They tried 42 times to repeal Obamacare and they failed 42 times.  Why is it so hard for them to take a hint?
What is going on is nothing more than a charade.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2013, 06:30:22 PM »
Why is it so hard to understand? If you don't like a law you can repeal it and see what happens.
They tried 42 times to repeal Obamacare and they failed 42 times.  Why is it so hard for them to take a hint?
What is going on is nothing more than a charade.

Hoppy gets it.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Excelsior John

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2013, 06:41:17 PM »
They were alredey insane from the start
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markjo

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2013, 07:01:19 PM »
Actually, it's the American people who have gone insane.  After all, how else could a group with a 10% approval rating maintain a 90% incumbency rate?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2013, 07:03:52 PM »
Redistricting.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2013, 07:38:31 PM »
No, it's apathy and laziness.  Educating oneself on the political process is too much effort.  It's much easier to just complain about it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2013, 07:45:47 PM »
A child on the west coast wants his parents to let him go on a 2 week long school trip to Washington DC. Mom says yes, and dad says yes. Initially, it seems like a good educational experience. But over time, as the trip nears, the full details come out and when it's time to pay the bill, $3700 for plane trip, hotel, plus expenses, Dad comes to his senses and puts his foot down. The amount is too burdensome for his family to pay in their financial situation.

Why is it wrong for Dad to do this?

Because the Mom and Grandpa are okay with spending grandpa's money on the trip.

Dad appeals to Mom to negotiate. Maybe they can send their child to nearby Sacramento, the Capital of California instead. Mom refuses negotiation: "Send Timmy to D.C. Give us $3700. No negotiation. End of story."

Is Dad unreasonable to put his foot down and put non-critical family expenses on hold until an agreement can be met, or is Mom unreasonable for being unwilling to negotiate and reach a comprimise?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 07:59:40 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2013, 07:58:04 PM »
See what you've started, Orbis?

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Rama Set

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2013, 07:58:50 PM »
I thought the GOP wanted the law repealed. How are they compromising?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Rushy

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2013, 08:02:34 PM »
Let's fund half the bill. I think that's a good compromise.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2013, 08:06:46 PM »
I thought the GOP wanted the law repealed. How are they compromising?

The GOP had submitted a number of compromise offers before the government shut down. See this one submitted at the end of September.

Obama has been unwilling to negotiate on anything related to Obamacare, or the country's debt. He is unwilling to reach across the isle and compromise. That's why we are where we are today.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 08:16:19 PM by Tom Bishop »

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rottingroom

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2013, 08:15:40 PM »
Tom, that is crazy. Unwilling to compromise on what? You can't call it a compromise when the offer by Republicans was to not shut the government down. That should have never been on the table and you know it.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: The GOP has gone insane
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2013, 08:18:25 PM »
Tom, that is crazy. Unwilling to compromise on what? You can't call it a compromise when the offer by Republicans was to not shut the government down. That should have never been on the table and you know it.

Look at the link I provided above. Before the shutdown the GOP offered to keep Obamacare, with a delay of its Individual Mandate, a controversial portion of Obamacare which forces people to pay penalties if they do not purchase insurance.