An alternative to Obamacare

  • 146 Replies
  • 17395 Views
*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #120 on: October 07, 2013, 03:40:22 PM »
Why couldn't they?  You can't assume what you want out of convenience?
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Saddam Hussein

  • Official Member
  • 35368
  • Former President of Iraq

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #122 on: October 07, 2013, 08:48:14 PM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.

This article does not rule it out entirely that the 83% thinking of quitting MAY HAVE COME FROM Obamacare concerns.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:37:57 PM by babsinva »
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #123 on: October 07, 2013, 09:02:52 PM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.
I just figured you could back up your claims, but I guess I was wrong.  It would have also done you some good to fact check your own information prior to posting it.  You can't just throw out percentages as fact without backing them up.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #124 on: October 07, 2013, 09:14:56 PM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.
I just figured you could back up your claims, but I guess I was wrong.  It would have also done you some good to fact check your own information prior to posting it.  You can't just throw out percentages as fact without backing them up.

@Duck, I had backed up my claims already, and did answer you and did not dodge the question, don't you remember this post . . . (see below) > > >



83% of doctors have considered quitting the profession over this Obamacare.

Some have closed their doors already, see > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

I couldn't find your quoted 83% of doctors considering quitting the profession in your link, but I did find 77% felt pessimistic about the future of medicine in America.

The 2 were run together which looked like one thought, sorry.

The doctors who have closed their doors because of Obamacare - I already gave a link, but if you want something on the 83% considering quitting, try this - a link to the top 10 URLs on google search containing this, .. .  > >
https://www.google.com/#q=83%25+of+doctors+have+considered+quitting+professionTake your pick ^

I gave you the top 10 articles ^ ^ on this already - all you needed to do was click the link.  I'm beginning to think you have alzheimers.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:18:27 PM by babsinva »
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2013, 09:20:25 PM »
A Google search is not a source last time I checked.  You also didn't appear to check your facts about it and never really said where you did get that figure, just that the figure exists somewhere.  It's a moot point anyway as it is a flawed figure.  You should try to check your facts before you post though, a post countered by snopes and politifact both in one day.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #126 on: October 07, 2013, 09:31:46 PM »
A Google search is not a source last time I checked.   You also didn't appear to check your facts about it and never really said where you did get that figure, just that the figure exists somewhere.  It's a moot point anyway as it is a flawed figure.  You should try to check your facts before you post though, a post countered by snopes and politifact both in one day.

I am sorry you are having trouble with internet 101, you might want to go back to remedial and brush up on your skills.

This is how you get what I got:
1)  Type in the address bar     - www.google.com
2)  On Google's main search page, type into the search bar (or field) "83% of doctors quitting profession" (please don't actually use the quotes)
3)  You will get the top 10 or 20 results for the search keywords you used
4)  Copy and paste that into FES, and now no one has to search for each article directly or separately, because it has been supplied.

And yes Google search is a source for finding multiple sources on the subject, that's why its called a search engine.  It goes out and locates things for you.  I was trying to make it easy for you with showing or having the top 10 or so results, but something like that easily confused you.  Hey man, I don't know what to say to you; it couldn't be simpler.
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #127 on: October 07, 2013, 09:40:56 PM »
Does Google have its own reporting news section from which you could have pulled that number from? If the answer is no, it's not a source.  I'm done with semantics with you though. I await your next tidbit of Tea Party inspired Facebook regurgitation.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #128 on: October 07, 2013, 10:01:01 PM »
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.

This article does not rule it out entirely that the 83% thinking of quitting MAY HAVE COME FROM Obamacare concerns.

#1)  I will post this again, ... > > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

or use this . . . > >

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/#ixzz2h6PNZFsI

And it states, and I quote ...

"After 25 years of practicing medicine, Dr. Tamzin Rosenwasser packed in her dermatology practice in 2011, barely a year after the passage of President Obama’s health care initiative. The timing wasn’t coincidental.

“I have interrupted practicing medicine because of Obamacare,” said Dr. Rosenwasser. “I’d read the bill. I was conversant with what had already happened with Medicaid, and I didn’t want to go down that road with Obamacare.” "



ALSO

#2)  in reference to Saddam's politifact with reference to the Physician's Foundation who were polled, see this . . .

"Even physicians with no plans for career change are worried about the profession for reasons related to Obamacare. A sweeping survey of 13,575 doctors released in September by the Physicians Foundation found that 77 percent were pessimistic about the future of medicine.
 
The main reason: malpractice lawsuits, which the president’s law did little to address. (< so that's related for sure) After that, the top factors cited were “Medicare/Medicaid/government regulations,” “reimbursement issues” and “uncertainty/changes of health reform.” "  (< that too is related)

Yes I know it wasn't just one reason, but it was ONE of the reasons



Does Google have its own reporting news section from which you could have pulled that number from? If the answer is no, it's not a source.  I'm done with semantics with you though. I await your next tidbit of Tea Party inspired Facebook regurgitation.

I am not part of a Tea party, nor do I even know anyone who is a member of the tea party.

I did not get any of this from Facebook.  The thread on "Facial Recognition Infiltrates Privacy" is where I mentioned Facebook, but not in this thread.  And Facebook was only one place cited in the other thread, for there were many things cited.  Lastly the information in that thread was obtained from a segment on 60 Minutes News Program.  I have explained this to you before also.  I do not know why you keep confusing things.  Your attempt at ad hominem falls flat.

And to answer your Google question,
Also there is Google news
https://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ei=0ZFTUqe1CI7-4AOw-YCACw&ved=0CAsQqS4oBQ

 

« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 10:04:25 PM by babsinva »
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 44388
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #129 on: October 08, 2013, 08:57:57 AM »
babs,  Google didn't write those articles.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #130 on: October 08, 2013, 11:47:27 AM »
babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Of course not, those articles are from all over the world, CNN, Associated Press, BBC etc. etc. - But not really the point

But Duck has a problem using basic internet skills, and when I go out and find all the info for him, and the top 10-20 articles with those keywords and bring it to him on a silver platter and all he has to do is click on it, and that confuses him, then Hey I can't hold his hand.
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #131 on: October 08, 2013, 12:13:56 PM »
babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Of course not, those articles are from all over the world, CNN, Associated Press, BBC etc. etc. - But not really the point

But Duck has a problem using basic internet skills, and when I go out and find all the info for him, and the top 10-20 articles with those keywords and bring it to him on a silver platter and all he has to do is click on it, and that confuses him, then Hey I can't hold his hand.
Not even close to the truth but okay.  I didn't have the time when you posted that to go article hunting as I was at the eye doctor.  A link directly to the article in which you found that statistic is not at all too much of a request and you should be able to back up any statistic you throw into an argument.  By the time I could look at the articles Saddam had already debunked your bogus stat.  All I had asked you for was the one solitary article in which you found your stat to show you didn't pull it from no where.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 44388
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #132 on: October 08, 2013, 12:21:43 PM »
babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Of course not, those articles are from all over the world, CNN, Associated Press, BBC etc. etc. - But not really the point

But Duck has a problem using basic internet skills, and when I go out and find all the info for him, and the top 10-20 articles with those keywords and bring it to him on a silver platter and all he has to do is click on it, and that confuses him, then Hey I can't hold his hand.

If you make a claim you should be willing to back it up.
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

Lorddave

  • 16393
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #133 on: October 08, 2013, 04:41:12 PM »
#1)  I will post this again, ... > > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

or use this . . . > >

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/#ixzz2h6PNZFsI

And it states, and I quote ...

"After 25 years of practicing medicine, Dr. Tamzin Rosenwasser packed in her dermatology practice in 2011, barely a year after the passage of President Obama’s health care initiative. The timing wasn’t coincidental.

“I have interrupted practicing medicine because of Obamacare,” said Dr. Rosenwasser. “I’d read the bill. I was conversant with what had already happened with Medicaid, and I didn’t want to go down that road with Obamacare.” "



ALSO

#2)  in reference to Saddam's politifact with reference to the Physician's Foundation who were polled, see this . . .

"Even physicians with no plans for career change are worried about the profession for reasons related to Obamacare. A sweeping survey of 13,575 doctors released in September by the Physicians Foundation found that 77 percent were pessimistic about the future of medicine.
 
The main reason: malpractice lawsuits, which the president’s law did little to address. (< so that's related for sure) After that, the top factors cited were “Medicare/Medicaid/government regulations,” “reimbursement issues” and “uncertainty/changes of health reform.” "  (< that too is related)

Yes I know it wasn't just one reason, but it was ONE of the reasons



Does Google have its own reporting news section from which you could have pulled that number from? If the answer is no, it's not a source.  I'm done with semantics with you though. I await your next tidbit of Tea Party inspired Facebook regurgitation.

I am not part of a Tea party, nor do I even know anyone who is a member of the tea party.

I did not get any of this from Facebook.  The thread on "Facial Recognition Infiltrates Privacy" is where I mentioned Facebook, but not in this thread.  And Facebook was only one place cited in the other thread, for there were many things cited.  Lastly the information in that thread was obtained from a segment on 60 Minutes News Program.  I have explained this to you before also.  I do not know why you keep confusing things.  Your attempt at ad hominem falls flat.

And to answer your Google question,
Also there is Google news
https://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ei=0ZFTUqe1CI7-4AOw-YCACw&ved=0CAsQqS4oBQ
I have a problem with that article.

According to a web search, the dermatologist mentioned in the article is still practicing.

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Tamzin_Rosenwasser/reviews

Note the comments section and the dates.  2012.  If she left in 2011, why are people commenting about her a year later?
Oh AND she accepts insurance plans.

Can you explain this apparent contradiction in information?
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

Chris Spaghetti

  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 12682
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2013, 08:42:13 AM »
Quote
Can you explain this apparent contradiction in information?

Conservatives lie.

?

OrbisNonSufficit

  • 3124
  • I love Gasoline.
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #135 on: October 09, 2013, 08:55:02 AM »
From the politifact link:

Quote
The group asked: "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" According to the group, 83 percent answered, "Makes me think about quitting," 5 percent said, "I’m re-energized," while 13 percent said they were unsure or had no opinion.

Quote
Despite the linkage by Duncan and other lawmakers to Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), as "Obamacare" is officially known, the question actually does not mention the law. In fact, only the final question in the poll mentions anything about it, in passing.

Instead, the question asks about "current changes," which could include not just the law, but many other factors, such as changes driven by insurance companies and hospital systems. There’s no way of knowing what specifically the respondents were referring to.

Yes, I'm sure the doctors thinking about quitting were actually concerned with hospital systems changes and had nothing to do with the industry-wide changes of the medical profession made via Obamacare.

Well I think that doctors are against an form of control they might fall under.  Didn't the article say that 76 percent were upset with government control and 75 percent were up set with insurance companies, and 50 percent were upset with lawyers?

doctors just want to treat patients as best as they can, without jumping through hoops.

In addition the poll is "non scientific," which is why it has no error margins.  Its not really a great source.

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 44388
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #136 on: October 09, 2013, 10:50:28 AM »
babs, are you a Moonie?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #137 on: October 10, 2013, 05:03:18 PM »
#1)  I will post this again, ... > > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

or use this . . . > >

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/#ixzz2h6PNZFsI

And it states, and I quote ...

"After 25 years of practicing medicine, Dr. Tamzin Rosenwasser packed in her dermatology practice in 2011, barely a year after the passage of President Obama’s health care initiative. The timing wasn’t coincidental.

“I have interrupted practicing medicine because of Obamacare,” said Dr. Rosenwasser. “I’d read the bill. I was conversant with what had already happened with Medicaid, and I didn’t want to go down that road with Obamacare.” "

I have a problem with that article.

According to a web search, the dermatologist mentioned in the article is still practicing.

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Tamzin_Rosenwasser/reviews

Note the comments section and the dates.  2012.  If she left in 2011, why are people commenting about her a year later?
Oh AND she accepts insurance plans.

Can you explain this apparent contradiction in information?

She had practices in both Florida and Indiana, and closed Florida and also closed Indiana but re-opened the 2nd or latter one.  You didn't finish the article, and if you scroll to the bottom you have this > >

"If and when she re-enters medicine, Dr. Rosenwasser said, she plans to take the pay-as-you-go approach.

“If I do open another practice, it’s going to be me, the patient and no Medicare or Medicaid, no insurance coverage,” Dr. Rosenwasser said. “I’m going to treat my patients how I know they should be treated.” "




However I do think that link to the site you found was cool, and I will probably use that site in the future.  And also if she said she wasn't going to take insurance and still does, then I guess she changed her mind.  I didn't interview her or know her or write the article, I only read it like you.

Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #138 on: October 30, 2013, 06:49:44 PM »
Well something has to be done that's for sure.

The Affordable Care Act website (Obamacare) has had major issues since inception.  The 1st 4 days (Oct 1st was the start date) you saw that the site was non operational, or slow or booted you out and there are literally hundreds of thousands of people logging in at the same time to register.  They did not expect this because of poor planning.  There are not enough servers for one thing.  Then on the 5th day, the website was entirely shutdown and says it's "under maintenance" but no mention when it would be back up.  What idiot (Obama) sets up a website that is not very functional at first then later not at all?  Duh.  Hey Obama, it's called the world wide web, because it's worldwide you ditz, not called the lone state web or the neighborhood web, and should have been designed for WORLD access.  Did you think only 3000 people in this country don't have insurance, so you set it up to handle a miniscule percentage of the country's population.  Are you really that dumb?  NO, don't answer that, you'd f-cked that up too.
Nothing is flaw free from launch.  You have very unrealistic ideas of implementing a nationwide site and thinking they should be able to predict millions of hits in the span of hours and to be perfect from the start.

Not unrealistic, but fact.  This is the government for crying out loud!  Is the President and his administration so stupid and blind to not realize they are asking us to blindly trust something that has not be proven and does not work, but they set up to work, and yet they are amazed as to why we don't have faith in our government when it doesn't work.  Obama's approval rating is down to 38% and dropping all the time.  He always goes off half cocked acting like he has the inside scoop on how to handle a problem, but is really clueless, BECAUSE if he had done his homework and studied the demographics he would know how many people don't have healthcare in this country and how many people would have logged on.  Then they would know how many servers to put in place, because it's basic math.  I'm not asking him to perform calculus.  Heck I'm not even asking him to put a man on the moon or solve cancer, I'm just asking for simple math skills here and also QUALIFIED web builders, and doing your homework.  This is not a matter of world peace or world hunger, just a flipping website - how hard is that I ask.  That idiot couldn't organize a dog house, much less the federal government.
The government isn't perfect and never claimed to be, they are going to have errors.  The also doesn't have infinite resources and must stick to a budget, so they are going to try to do the most with what they have.  I doubt there is a site out there that can handle millions of hits in less than 2 hours.  I think New York had 5 million hits in 90 minutes to their site.  It's completely unrealistic to expect there not to be hiccups. They have people trained to assist individuals as well, and they are going old school with pen and paper and phone lines.

@Duck, still feel that way now, even though Sibelius had to testify today about this fiasco?  A few hiccups?  A few errors?   A few?  Really, just a few?  Huh, website still does not work and was supposed to be running since Oct 1, and 30 days of time has gone by and still no fix.

The whole country is talking about it.  Why do you have a problem with realizing government failure?

Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #139 on: October 30, 2013, 06:52:05 PM »
At the time all this information was not known.  I wasn't going to condemn the website for mass wide-spread issues without knowing if they actually existed.  I'm so sorry for basing my arguments on the information available at the time.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

Lorddave

  • 16393
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2013, 03:13:21 AM »
Yes, there are problems.  And yes it was rushed, much like a large company with a deadline and accepting the cheapest bid.

Frankly, I am neither shocked nor upset.  This is huge and its going to have huge mistakes.  Which is why Obama gave people more time to sign up.


And as Duck said, its not like you can't call instead, which is what people would be doing if this was 15 years ago.  So I fail to see a problem with how things are being handled.
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #141 on: November 11, 2013, 11:07:12 PM »

And as Duck said, its not like you can't call instead, which is what people would be doing if this was 15 years ago.  So I fail to see a problem with how things are being handled.


Well they served 6 people, yippie !  You want a cookie for that?

It's not just the website.  Have you not heard that people that already had policies (like maybe thru their work) have been cancelled OR either their premium has gone up, and I mean WAY up.  Doubled and tripled in many cases. 

1)  Employers thought early on, hey if this Obamacare thing really works, then I can just not offer benefits for my workers and pay the fee instead which is less than supplying the insurance and that saves on hiring and human resources etc. 

2)  Insurance companies also thought early on, . . .  I can cancel insurance for my policyholders and that saves me money particularly for those policyholders who had a lot of illnesses and had been using their insurance left and right.  Let them go elsewhere, they thought.

And because Obamacare which promises to take anyone including those with pre-existing conditions, but huh at their price (a ridiculous price) - -  well then one's own existing insurance company through work could jump on that bandwagon too IF AND WHEN they wanted to take someone back.  They would take them back but at a price that was high just like the plans offered by Obamacare.  SO everyone took advantage of this and there was no laws on the books that said when Obamacare rolls out that this would be prevented and it wasn't, so insurance companies didn't.  This was a domino effect.  You do understand how dominoes work?  The whole system is collapsing on itself.

So you see Dave, the Obamacare that really comes under the "Affordable Care Act" - ISN'T SO AFFORDABLE after all.  It isn't affordable for those trying to get Obamacare nor is it affordable for those NOT participating by choice and yet due to no fault of their own have been cancelled or severely increased.


« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 11:17:51 AM by babsinva »
Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #142 on: November 13, 2013, 09:04:15 AM »
These three guys did what the goverment couldn't do. They made a working health care website.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/11/programmers-build-healthcare-gov-alternative-that-works-in-a-weekend-86956

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #143 on: November 13, 2013, 02:10:53 PM »
These three guys did what the goverment couldn't do. They made a working health care website.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/11/programmers-build-healthcare-gov-alternative-that-works-in-a-weekend-86956
Not even a fair comparison between their site and healthcare.gov.  I'm also sure that they were able to make all the decisions themselves without the oversight required to provide a product to the government.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

*

babsinva

  • 2222
  • aka Mr. Fahrenheit
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #144 on: November 17, 2013, 11:47:16 AM »

And as Duck said, its not like you can't call instead, which is what people would be doing if this was 15 years ago.  So I fail to see a problem with how things are being handled.


Well they served 6 people, yippie !  You want a cookie for that?

It's not just the website.  Have you not heard that people that already had policies (like maybe thru their work) have been cancelled OR either their premium has gone up, and I mean WAY up.  Doubled and tripled in many cases. 

1)  Employers thought early on, hey if this Obamacare thing really works, then I can just not offer benefits for my workers and pay the fee instead which is less than supplying the insurance and that saves on hiring and human resources etc. 

2)  Insurance companies also thought early on, . . .  I can cancel insurance for my policyholders and that saves me money particularly for those policyholders who had a lot of illnesses and had been using their insurance left and right.  Let them go elsewhere, they thought.

And because Obamacare which promises to take anyone including those with pre-existing conditions, but huh at their price (a ridiculous price) - -  well then one's own existing insurance company through work could jump on that bandwagon too IF AND WHEN they wanted to take someone back.  They would take them back but at a price that was high just like the plans offered by Obamacare.  SO everyone took advantage of this and there was no laws on the books that said when Obamacare rolls out that this would be prevented and it wasn't, so insurance companies didn't.  This was a domino effect.  You do understand how dominoes work?  The whole system is collapsing on itself.

So you see Dave, the Obamacare that really comes under the "Affordable Care Act" - ISN'T SO AFFORDABLE after all.  It isn't affordable for those trying to get Obamacare nor is it affordable for those NOT participating by choice and yet due to no fault of their own have been cancelled or severely increased.


3)  However the biggest reasons for insurance cancellations AND failure of the system (both) is the compliant thing.  The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) requires that insurers provide coverage for things they didn’t have to cover before and IF they can't do that and conform to that health care bill passed then they are considered ACA non-compliant and can not be sold.  That poses problems because insurance companies can't possibly become ACA compliant, and offer the things Obamacare says it has to and still keep the same low rate to the policyholder as they had been paying before.  It is physically and financially not possible.  If you go UP on the coverages then someone has to absorb that cost, and that someone is the policyholder, not the government and not the insurance companies.  So to say you can keep the same plan does not work, because most people would not be able to afford their same insurance IF there are major changes that come with major costs.

4)  This also poses problems because some insurance companies will take advantage of this and now sell junk policies, so the insurance coverage for people has not become better, but worse.  This does not change the insurance system in America for the better, which is what the Affordable Care Act was suppose to do.

5)  The grandfathering-in thing was not fully disclosed or explained prior to all this mess.  Now they say if you had a policy (the same policy) with no new insurance company, no new additions or changes to the policies since March 23, 2010 then that policy is grandfathered in and switching to another plan (even Obamacare) may not provide the coverage you had or do have with your existing grandfathered-in plan.  Hey didn't they think that info may have been helpful before?  And not just for those individuals switching, but more importantly the insurance companies offering that grandfathered-in plan, because let's face it, that's mostly why they cancelled people,  because they either could not comply or would not comply with the ACA requirement of additional coverage for no extra cost.  Of course there would be extra cost, duh Obama.  So insurance companies had to become compliant and take a loss or either say we can't afford that and cancel.  What did Obama, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid think was going to happen.

6)  Even IF the insurance companies wanted to cover those things and become compliant to stay in the game, Obamacare fundamentally changes the dynamics of the individual insurance market.


PROBLEMS ARE MUCH BIGGER THAN JUST A WEBSITE ISSUE.


Quote from Big Giant Head:  "Considered fictitious or phantom does not quantify its non-existence."

Quote from Soze:  "We cannot escape perception, but we can't assume reality doesn't exist outside of perception."

*

Space Cowgirl

  • MOM
  • Administrator
  • 44388
  • Official FE Recruiter
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #145 on: November 17, 2013, 12:22:48 PM »
You can't even tell when you contradict yourself, can you?
I'm sorry. Am I to understand that when you have a boner you like to imagine punching the shit out of Tom Bishop? That's disgusting.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5332
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: An alternative to Obamacare
« Reply #146 on: November 17, 2013, 12:29:41 PM »
4)  This also poses problems because some insurance companies will take advantage of this and now sell junk policies, so the insurance coverage for people has not become better, but worse.  This does not change the insurance system in America for the better, which is what the Affordable Care Act was suppose to do.

Can you explain this one?  I was under the impression that all insurance policies going forward (besides the catastrophic policies) must cover the 10 items deemed essential under ACA.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.