An alternative to Obamacare

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 07, 2013, 03:06:36 PM

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Facts are not the end all be all, Saddam.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 07, 2013, 03:06:36 PM

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.

Quote from: babsinva on October 07, 2013, 08:48:14 PM

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 07, 2013, 03:06:36 PM

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.

I just figured you could back up your claims, but I guess I was wrong.  It would have also done you some good to fact check your own information prior to posting it.  You can't just throw out percentages as fact without backing them up.

Quote from: DuckDodgers on October 07, 2013, 01:45:24 PM

Quote from: babsinva on October 07, 2013, 01:29:19 PM

83% of doctors have considered quitting the profession over this Obamacare.

Some have closed their doors already, see > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

I couldn't find your quoted 83% of doctors considering quitting the profession in your link, but I did find 77% felt pessimistic about the future of medicine in America.

The 2 were run together which looked like one thought, sorry.

The doctors who have closed their doors because of Obamacare - I already gave a link, but if you want something on the 83% considering quitting, try this - a link to the top 10 URLs on google search containing this, .. .  > >
https://www.google.com/#q=83%25+of+doctors+have+considered+quitting+professionTake your pick ^

A Google search is not a source last time I checked.   You also didn't appear to check your facts about it and never really said where you did get that figure, just that the figure exists somewhere.  It's a moot point anyway as it is a flawed figure.  You should try to check your facts before you post though, a post countered by snopes and politifact both in one day.

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on October 07, 2013, 03:06:36 PM

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/12/jeff-duncan/gop-lawmaker-jeff-duncan-repeats-survey-finding-83/

Thank you Saddam.  You are the only one who actually looked it up.  Do I have to post all links for everyone, or can't you people do some fact checking and web surfing on your own?  And by the way, there are 10 more articles just like that on the first page of Google search using certain keywords. Gosh people.

This article does not rule it out entirely that the 83% thinking of quitting MAY HAVE COME FROM Obamacare concerns.

Does Google have its own reporting news section from which you could have pulled that number from? If the answer is no, it's not a source.  I'm done with semantics with you though. I await your next tidbit of Tea Party inspired Facebook regurgitation.

babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on October 08, 2013, 08:57:57 AM

babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Of course not, those articles are from all over the world, CNN, Associated Press, BBC etc. etc. - But not really the point

But Duck has a problem using basic internet skills, and when I go out and find all the info for him, and the top 10-20 articles with those keywords and bring it to him on a silver platter and all he has to do is click on it, and that confuses him, then Hey I can't hold his hand.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on October 08, 2013, 08:57:57 AM

babs,  Google didn't write those articles.

Of course not, those articles are from all over the world, CNN, Associated Press, BBC etc. etc. - But not really the point

But Duck has a problem using basic internet skills, and when I go out and find all the info for him, and the top 10-20 articles with those keywords and bring it to him on a silver platter and all he has to do is click on it, and that confuses him, then Hey I can't hold his hand.

#1)  I will post this again, ... > > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

or use this . . . > >

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/#ixzz2h6PNZFsI

And it states, and I quote ...

"After 25 years of practicing medicine, Dr. Tamzin Rosenwasser packed in her dermatology practice in 2011, barely a year after the passage of President Obama’s health care initiative. The timing wasn’t coincidental.

“I have interrupted practicing medicine because of Obamacare,” said Dr. Rosenwasser. “I’d read the bill. I was conversant with what had already happened with Medicaid, and I didn’t want to go down that road with Obamacare.” "



ALSO

#2)  in reference to Saddam's politifact with reference to the Physician's Foundation who were polled, see this . . .

"Even physicians with no plans for career change are worried about the profession for reasons related to Obamacare. A sweeping survey of 13,575 doctors released in September by the Physicians Foundation found that 77 percent were pessimistic about the future of medicine.
 
The main reason: malpractice lawsuits, which the president’s law did little to address. (< so that's related for sure) After that, the top factors cited were “Medicare/Medicaid/government regulations,” “reimbursement issues” and “uncertainty/changes of health reform.” "  (< that too is related)

Yes I know it wasn't just one reason, but it was ONE of the reasons

Quote from: DuckDodgers on October 07, 2013, 09:40:56 PM

Does Google have its own reporting news section from which you could have pulled that number from? If the answer is no, it's not a source.  I'm done with semantics with you though. I await your next tidbit of Tea Party inspired Facebook regurgitation.

I am not part of a Tea party, nor do I even know anyone who is a member of the tea party.

I did not get any of this from Facebook.  The thread on "Facial Recognition Infiltrates Privacy" is where I mentioned Facebook, but not in this thread.  And Facebook was only one place cited in the other thread, for there were many things cited.  Lastly the information in that thread was obtained from a segment on 60 Minutes News Program.  I have explained this to you before also.  I do not know why you keep confusing things.  Your attempt at ad hominem falls flat.

And to answer your Google question,
Also there is Google news
https://news.google.com/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&ei=0ZFTUqe1CI7-4AOw-YCACw&ved=0CAsQqS4oBQ

Can you explain this apparent contradiction in information?

From the politifact link:

Quote

The group asked: "How do current changes in the medical system affect your desire to practice medicine?" According to the group, 83 percent answered, "Makes me think about quitting," 5 percent said, "I’m re-energized," while 13 percent said they were unsure or had no opinion.

Quote

Despite the linkage by Duncan and other lawmakers to Obama’s Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), as "Obamacare" is officially known, the question actually does not mention the law. In fact, only the final question in the poll mentions anything about it, in passing.

Instead, the question asks about "current changes," which could include not just the law, but many other factors, such as changes driven by insurance companies and hospital systems. There’s no way of knowing what specifically the respondents were referring to.

Yes, I'm sure the doctors thinking about quitting were actually concerned with hospital systems changes and had nothing to do with the industry-wide changes of the medical profession made via Obamacare.

Quote from: babsinva on October 07, 2013, 10:01:01 PM

#1)  I will post this again, ... > > >http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/?page=all

or use this . . . > >

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/7/doctors-feel-ill-winds-blowing-as-they-look-closel/#ixzz2h6PNZFsI

And it states, and I quote ...

"After 25 years of practicing medicine, Dr. Tamzin Rosenwasser packed in her dermatology practice in 2011, barely a year after the passage of President Obama’s health care initiative. The timing wasn’t coincidental.

“I have interrupted practicing medicine because of Obamacare,” said Dr. Rosenwasser. “I’d read the bill. I was conversant with what had already happened with Medicaid, and I didn’t want to go down that road with Obamacare.” "

I have a problem with that article.

According to a web search, the dermatologist mentioned in the article is still practicing.

http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Tamzin_Rosenwasser/reviews

Note the comments section and the dates.  2012.  If she left in 2011, why are people commenting about her a year later?
Oh AND she accepts insurance plans.

Can you explain this apparent contradiction in information?

Quote from: babsinva on October 07, 2013, 09:54:56 AM

Quote from: DuckDodgers on October 07, 2013, 09:40:11 AM

Quote from: babsinva on October 07, 2013, 09:26:41 AM

Well something has to be done that's for sure.

The Affordable Care Act website (Obamacare) has had major issues since inception.  The 1st 4 days (Oct 1st was the start date) you saw that the site was non operational, or slow or booted you out and there are literally hundreds of thousands of people logging in at the same time to register.  They did not expect this because of poor planning.  There are not enough servers for one thing.  Then on the 5th day, the website was entirely shutdown and says it's "under maintenance" but no mention when it would be back up.  What idiot (Obama) sets up a website that is not very functional at first then later not at all?  Duh.  Hey Obama, it's called the world wide web, because it's worldwide you ditz, not called the lone state web or the neighborhood web, and should have been designed for WORLD access.  Did you think only 3000 people in this country don't have insurance, so you set it up to handle a miniscule percentage of the country's population.  Are you really that dumb?  NO, don't answer that, you'd f-cked that up too.

Nothing is flaw free from launch.  You have very unrealistic ideas of implementing a nationwide site and thinking they should be able to predict millions of hits in the span of hours and to be perfect from the start.

Not unrealistic, but fact.  This is the government for crying out loud!  Is the President and his administration so stupid and blind to not realize they are asking us to blindly trust something that has not be proven and does not work, but they set up to work, and yet they are amazed as to why we don't have faith in our government when it doesn't work.  Obama's approval rating is down to 38% and dropping all the time.  He always goes off half cocked acting like he has the inside scoop on how to handle a problem, but is really clueless, BECAUSE if he had done his homework and studied the demographics he would know how many people don't have healthcare in this country and how many people would have logged on.  Then they would know how many servers to put in place, because it's basic math.  I'm not asking him to perform calculus.  Heck I'm not even asking him to put a man on the moon or solve cancer, I'm just asking for simple math skills here and also QUALIFIED web builders, and doing your homework.  This is not a matter of world peace or world hunger, just a flipping website - how hard is that I ask.  That idiot couldn't organize a dog house, much less the federal government.

The government isn't perfect and never claimed to be, they are going to have errors.  The also doesn't have infinite resources and must stick to a budget, so they are going to try to do the most with what they have.  I doubt there is a site out there that can handle millions of hits in less than 2 hours.  I think New York had 5 million hits in 90 minutes to their site.  It's completely unrealistic to expect there not to be hiccups. They have people trained to assist individuals as well, and they are going old school with pen and paper and phone lines.

And as Duck said, its not like you can't call instead, which is what people would be doing if this was 15 years ago.  So I fail to see a problem with how things are being handled.

These three guys did what the goverment couldn't do. They made a working health care website.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/11/11/programmers-build-healthcare-gov-alternative-that-works-in-a-weekend-86956

Quote from: Lorddave on October 31, 2013, 03:13:21 AM

And as Duck said, its not like you can't call instead, which is what people would be doing if this was 15 years ago.  So I fail to see a problem with how things are being handled.

Well they served 6 people, yippie !  You want a cookie for that?

It's not just the website.  Have you not heard that people that already had policies (like maybe thru their work) have been cancelled OR either their premium has gone up, and I mean WAY up.  Doubled and tripled in many cases. 

1)  Employers thought early on, hey if this Obamacare thing really works, then I can just not offer benefits for my workers and pay the fee instead which is less than supplying the insurance and that saves on hiring and human resources etc. 

2)  Insurance companies also thought early on, . . .  I can cancel insurance for my policyholders and that saves me money particularly for those policyholders who had a lot of illnesses and had been using their insurance left and right.  Let them go elsewhere, they thought.

And because Obamacare which promises to take anyone including those with pre-existing conditions, but huh at their price (a ridiculous price) - -  well then one's own existing insurance company through work could jump on that bandwagon too IF AND WHEN they wanted to take someone back.  They would take them back but at a price that was high just like the plans offered by Obamacare.  SO everyone took advantage of this and there was no laws on the books that said when Obamacare rolls out that this would be prevented and it wasn't, so insurance companies didn't.  This was a domino effect.  You do understand how dominoes work?  The whole system is collapsing on itself.

So you see Dave, the Obamacare that really comes under the "Affordable Care Act" - ISN'T SO AFFORDABLE after all.  It isn't affordable for those trying to get Obamacare nor is it affordable for those NOT participating by choice and yet due to no fault of their own have been cancelled or severely increased.