sandokahn: what about driving a car?

Now that sandokahn has run rings around the others in connection with the behavior of different elements of air, I wonder if he could turn his great mind to another topic, however briefly:

Sandokahn, I am convinced that if the earth were a spinning (turning) and whirling (around the sun) sphere, driving would be impossible. As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward. Navigation would be all but impossible. The usual suspects say that gravity takes care of all potential problems, but my common sense tells me that the movement of the vehicle, and the looseness of the connection with the earth via the axles, would cause earth's putative movements to have unexpected effects on the vehicle.

If you are not interested in this theory, I shall quite understand.

You won the other debate, though. They'll never listen.

As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward.

In an airliner at cruising altitude, when a person gets out of their seat, what happens when they turn and head for either the front or the back of the plane?

You think sandokhan won that debate? He was blatantly denying facts and observations.

You think sandokhan won that debate? He was blatantly denying facts and observations.

This is not a relevant post, nor does it address the OP.  Please don't do that in the upper fora.

Quote from: rottingroom on September 18, 2013, 06:39:20 PM

You think sandokhan won that debate? He was blatantly denying facts and observations.

This is not a relevant post, nor does it address the OP.  Please don't do that in the upper fora.

Actually I addressed a claim that was made in the op.

Quote from: Junker on September 18, 2013, 06:49:53 PM

Quote from: rottingroom on September 18, 2013, 06:39:20 PM

You think sandokhan won that debate? He was blatantly denying facts and observations.

This is not a relevant post, nor does it address the OP.  Please don't do that in the upper fora.

Actually I addressed a claim that was made in the op.

A claim that was irrelevant to FE, and not the intent of the OP.  Make posts about stuff like that somewhere else.  This is not the place to discuss further.

Wow. Ok and this thread was made by who? Funny that you didn't warn odes and then when I rebutted your warning the reason was because his post was irrelevant to FE and that it didn't address the OP when in fact my response was to address a claim he started the OP with (an entire paragraph BTW) and then concluded with likewise statements.

I'll add some stuff that has already been explained to odes so that this response isn't considered "low content". This effect is caused by inertia. A demonstrable effect that can be seen when riding a vehicle. In the frame of reference of a spinning earth everything on its surface is also moving at the same rate as the earth itself. Similarly, in a plane you can jump up in the air and still land where you jumped up from inside the plane. An observer outside of this frame of reference would see that you actually jumped forward but inside the plane this isn't noticeable.

BTW sandokhan, if you are so inclined. I challenge you to a debate on debate.org. On that site a fair system for determining victors is in place. No preconceived notions of what the earth should look like is considered. Voters judge on debate skills, use of sources, conduct and grammar. I look forward to a fairly judged debate.

It is more important to present the Restoring Forces Paradox.

However, within the context of your first message posted here, I can offer you this:

http://www.freelists.org/post/geocentrism/gravity-fills-my-quiver,7

Now that sandokahn has run rings around the others in connection with the behavior of different elements of air, I wonder if he could turn his great mind to another topic, however briefly:

Sandokahn, I am convinced that if the earth were a spinning (turning) and whirling (around the sun) sphere, driving would be impossible. As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward. Navigation would be all but impossible. The usual suspects say that gravity takes care of all potential problems, but my common sense tells me that the movement of the vehicle, and the looseness of the connection with the earth via the axles, would cause earth's putative movements to have unexpected effects on the vehicle.

If you are not interested in this theory, I shall quite understand.

You won the other debate, though. They'll never listen.

Ever heard of the theory of relativity? We are immobile relative to the earth. It's movement would only have an effect on us if it accelerated/decelerated.

Quote from: odes on September 18, 2013, 04:25:50 PM

As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward.

In an airliner at cruising altitude, when a person gets out of their seat, what happens when they turn and head for either the front or the back of the plane?

Interesting question. The plane is moving slower than the earth is alleged to be spinning. Also I think a car, by virtue of traveling faster and having almost no resistance at the point of contact (well-greased axles), would withstand or evidence greater reaction. Also a person leans into their turn to head for the mercy seat.

That said, one could try having a well-machined toy on a plane. Good luck getting it on the plane these days, and I don't know what toy is made well-enough. But the proper sort of toy might be a good experiment on a plane. Changing its plane of potential movement to align with the plane should cause it to move. However, I suspect that Sandokahn has a better line of sight on whatever it is I'm getting at. I look forward to reading more about the Restoring Forces Paradox. Thank you.

Quote from: 29silhouette on September 18, 2013, 06:36:29 PM

Quote from: odes on September 18, 2013, 04:25:50 PM

As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward.

In an airliner at cruising altitude, when a person gets out of their seat, what happens when they turn and head for either the front or the back of the plane?

Interesting question. The plane is moving slower than the earth is alleged to be spinning. Also I think a car, by virtue of traveling faster and having almost no resistance at the point of contact (well-greased axles), would withstand or evidence greater reaction. Also a person leans into their turn to head for the mercy seat.

That said, one could try having a well-machined toy on a plane. Good luck getting it on the plane these days, and I don't know what toy is made well-enough. But the proper sort of toy might be a good experiment on a plane. Changing its plane of potential movement to align with the plane should cause it to move. However, I suspect that Sandokahn has a better line of sight on whatever it is I'm getting at. I look forward to reading more about the Restoring Forces Paradox. Thank you.

Actually the car contacts the ground at the tires.  Considering how heavy a car is, and how little contact area there actually is between the tire and the ground, a car grips the ground pretty good. 

Well greased axles are all and good, but unless the car is in neutral, torque from the engine is being transferred through those axles to the tires and moving the car via those well gripping tires.

As you said, perhaps Sandokahn has a better idea of what you're getting at.  I read his link (congratulations on your shortest post ever Sandokahn), and read something about planes not being able to fly because someone doesn't know how lift works.

*edit- Was going to add, but forgot while typing about the car, that the plane is either moving faster or slower than the earth's rotational speed depending on direction.  Thanks for the reminder Captain.

Quote from: 29silhouette on September 18, 2013, 06:36:29 PM

Quote from: odes on September 18, 2013, 04:25:50 PM

As soon as a car turned toward the east or west, it would suddenly accelerate, or be shoved backward.

In an airliner at cruising altitude, when a person gets out of their seat, what happens when they turn and head for either the front or the back of the plane?

Interesting question. The plane is moving slower than the earth is alleged to be spinning. Also I think a car, by virtue of traveling faster and having almost no resistance at the point of contact (well-greased axles), would withstand or evidence greater reaction. Also a person leans into their turn to head for the mercy seat.

That said, one could try having a well-machined toy on a plane. Good luck getting it on the plane these days, and I don't know what toy is made well-enough. But the proper sort of toy might be a good experiment on a plane. Changing its plane of potential movement to align with the plane should cause it to move. However, I suspect that Sandokahn has a better line of sight on whatever it is I'm getting at. I look forward to reading more about the Restoring Forces Paradox. Thank you.

Actually depending on the direction it's moving the plane can be moving faster than the spin of the Earth. Considering it took off at spin speed it just accelerates on addition to the spinning speed but continues to move along with the Earth as well. If it was going slower than the spin speed in the direction of the spin it would appear to be flying backwards.