Falling off the edge?

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Falling off the edge?
« on: September 12, 2013, 10:21:28 AM »
Hey everyone, I've been browsing these forums for the past few weeks now, and recently decided to make an account. Admittedly the original intent of my browsing was to laugh at all the flat earthers, but I've seen some good points made on both sides. Although for now I still firmly believe in a round earth, I have a question that I couldn't seem to find on the forums.

If the earth is flat, how come we have never seen the edge? I know photographic evidence is a bit tricky here, with people claiming the lens distorts the image, but I think there are many photographs showing that earth is at least not an infinite plane. Regardless of whether there's an ice wall or something else at the edge, how come no one has ever seen it? I'm sorry if this question has already been addressed, but I couldn't find an answer.

P.S. Not to ask to many questions in one post, but could someone link me to a post giving a detailed description of the Aetheric Wind theory? I've heard it referenced several times, but still can't figure out exactly what it is.

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Thork

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2013, 10:39:00 AM »
I'm not sure why, but Tausami has removed the Aetheric wind theory from the wiki. There is a bit on aether.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Aether

Seeing the edge is not possible. The temperature drops violently to that of space, the pressure drops, it gets incredibly dark and magnetic distrotions happen due to the aetheric wind rushing past the earth at its edges.

In short, its impossible to navigate there.

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Rushy

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2013, 10:41:37 AM »
There is also the additional notion that the Earth is an infinite disc and thus would have no edge to fall off of.

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Thork

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2013, 10:50:41 AM »
There is also the additional notion that the Earth is an infinite disc and thus would have no edge to fall off of.
Yeah, but I don't subscribe to that nonsense. That's as silly as saying it must be a ball.

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Rushy

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2013, 10:58:19 AM »
Yeah, but I don't subscribe to that nonsense. That's as silly as saying it must be a ball.

Well then, it's convenient this is FE Q&A and not Evan Q&A.

Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2013, 11:06:31 AM »
How come no one has ever experienced these effects? I've never heard of anyone reporting the oxygen getting less for travelling in a certain direction (unless of course the direction is up). Also, is that really all the information there is on Aetheric Wind? It gets thrown around on the forums a lot, I would think it would be more developed than that wiki article.

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Thork

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2013, 11:21:49 AM »
How come no one has ever experienced these effects? I've never heard of anyone reporting the oxygen getting less for travelling in a certain direction (unless of course the direction is up). Also, is that really all the information there is on Aetheric Wind? It gets thrown around on the forums a lot, I would think it would be more developed than that wiki article.
Well you don't get less oxygen. Its still at 21%. But you get lower pressure until that pressure is zero. Even RE world maps will tell you that pressure decreases as you approach the south pole specifically (the edge).
you don't get this same drop off towards the North pole or what we would call the centre of earth. Maybe a REr would like to try to explain why? It only really fits our hypothesis on earth's shape.


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Alchemist21

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2013, 11:40:46 AM »
Well this is an interesting map.  What's the link to it?  Also what is that red wavy line for?
tfes.org

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robintex

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2013, 11:41:05 AM »
I have heard that it is said that  there is another FE Theory that the Ice Ring is patrolled by armed guards from NASA who prevent anyone from getting close enough to the Ice Ring to see it.  ???

FE also have reference to the Bipolar Map ("Antarctica as a Continent.") . There is no Ice Ring shown around the edge of the flat earth. What holds the oceans ?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2013, 11:49:35 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2013, 11:45:02 AM »
Well this is an interesting map.  What's the link to it?  Also what is that red wavy line for?

I think he may have got it from http://www.wse.ie/articles/actual-global-surface-circulation-04.php or http://klimaatgek.nl/wordpress/woestijnen/

Actually there are two pictures, that one is for January and this one is for July where you see that the south pole is actually hotter than the sea around it:

« Last Edit: September 13, 2013, 08:20:13 AM by Cartesian »
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2013, 12:20:54 PM »
I have heard that it is said that  there is another FE Theory that the Ice Ring is patrolled by armed guards from NASA who prevent anyone from getting close enough to the Ice Ring to see it.  ???

FE also have reference to the Bipolar Map ("Antarctica as a Continent.") . There is no Ice Ring shown around the edge of the flat earth. What holds the oceans ?

Presumably the oceans would naturally freeze beyond the light of the sun.

Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 06:00:23 AM »
Thanks for all the info guys, but is there any more info I can find on Aetheric Wind?

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danger2007

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 09:54:14 AM »
How come no one has ever experienced these effects? I've never heard of anyone reporting the oxygen getting less for travelling in a certain direction (unless of course the direction is up). Also, is that really all the information there is on Aetheric Wind? It gets thrown around on the forums a lot, I would think it would be more developed than that wiki article.
Well you don't get less oxygen. Its still at 21%. But you get lower pressure until that pressure is zero. Even RE world maps will tell you that pressure decreases as you approach the south pole specifically (the edge).
you don't get this same drop off towards the North pole or what we would call the centre of earth. Maybe a REr would like to try to explain why? It only really fits our hypothesis on earth's shape.



It is silly to use this map seeing as you don't have one that's the correct shape according to your theory. Also this page is created from round earth science,

http://www.wse.ie/articles/three-cell-model-of-global-circulation-03.php

Read all the information from a source before you use it.
"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way." -  Stevie Wonder, 1972

Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 10:08:49 AM »
Thanks for all the info guys, but is there any more info I can find on Aetheric Wind?
It's not all in one place. You've got to lurk around a bit before you get the idea of it.

Aetheric Wind is the driving force behind Universal Acceleration. You can think of it like a stream, with the Earth as a rock in the middle. The stream pushes on the rock, giving us our 9.8 m/s acceleration to simulate gravity (no word yet on why that force isn't constant across the Earth).

In the process it also forms a turbulent area behind the rock--above the Earth. This turbulence is what makes the sun, moon, and planets circle around the north pole. Not sure if it's what affects the stars, though.

Since it cannot be measured or quantified, it's a massive scapegoat for any problems with celestial observations on a flat Earth. Such claims cannot be refuted because the Aetheric Wind theory doesn't really predict anything. It's a copy-paste explanation.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 08:57:17 PM »
I am not sure about AW.  It does not seem necessary to me.  It gets cold when you get far from the Sun.  Gasses turn to liquid at low temperatures.  With no air pressure and sub-freezing temperatures, it would be a very unfriendly environment to get even close to the edge. 

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2013, 12:15:04 AM »
I am not sure about AW.  It does not seem necessary to me.  It gets cold when you get far from the Sun.  Gasses turn to liquid at low temperatures.  With no air pressure and sub-freezing temperatures, it would be a very unfriendly environment to get even close to the edge.

The issue with this is, you need a big wall to hold in the air. The air cannot simply decay to a vacuum in the transverse direction. A pressure gradient will force the air out. With the constant force of the UA pushing up, the lowest energy state of the air on the Earth would be to flow radially outward towards the region of low pressure, and in a short period of time all the air flows off the edge. I could do a calculation if you disagree, but it is fairly clear to me that you need a wall as tall as the atmosphere. The air will cool as it gets farther form the sun, but not fast enough... The sun is at 3000km and the Earth 25,000km, so the furthest away from any point is only 8 times further from the closest, so it cant get that cold.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2013, 12:25:02 AM »
I am not sure about AW.  It does not seem necessary to me.  It gets cold when you get far from the Sun.  Gasses turn to liquid at low temperatures.  With no air pressure and sub-freezing temperatures, it would be a very unfriendly environment to get even close to the edge.

The issue with this is, you need a big wall to hold in the air. The air cannot simply decay to a vacuum in the transverse direction. A pressure gradient will force the air out. With the constant force of the UA pushing up, the lowest energy state of the air on the Earth would be to flow radially outward towards the region of low pressure, and in a short period of time all the air flows off the edge. I could do a calculation if you disagree, but it is fairly clear to me that you need a wall as tall as the atmosphere. The air will cool as it gets farther form the sun, but not fast enough... The sun is at 3000km and the Earth 25,000km, so the furthest away from any point is only 8 times further from the closest, so it cant get that cold.

You may be right, but we really don't know the diameter of the Earth.  I think the FAQ claims that the known Earth is around 25,000km, but I don't think anyone has ever been to the edge to give us an exact number.  For all I know, it could be two or three times that distance.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 01:06:37 AM by jroa »

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2013, 02:12:51 AM »
I am not sure about AW.  It does not seem necessary to me.  It gets cold when you get far from the Sun.  Gasses turn to liquid at low temperatures.  With no air pressure and sub-freezing temperatures, it would be a very unfriendly environment to get even close to the edge.

The issue with this is, you need a big wall to hold in the air. The air cannot simply decay to a vacuum in the transverse direction. A pressure gradient will force the air out. With the constant force of the UA pushing up, the lowest energy state of the air on the Earth would be to flow radially outward towards the region of low pressure, and in a short period of time all the air flows off the edge. I could do a calculation if you disagree, but it is fairly clear to me that you need a wall as tall as the atmosphere. The air will cool as it gets farther form the sun, but not fast enough... The sun is at 3000km and the Earth 25,000km, so the furthest away from any point is only 8 times further from the closest, so it cant get that cold.

You may be right, but we really don't know the diameter of the Earth.  I think the FAQ claims that the known Earth is around 25,000km, but I don't think anyone has ever been to the edge to give us an exact number.  For all I know, it could be two or three times that distance.

Actually, the air freezing away from the sun makes it worse. If the Earth was 1 million km in diameter, you could claim that it is all filled with air, and that there is a really high wall really far away and we cant see it. However, if the air all freezes far away from the sun, then there is no lateral air pressure to hold our observed atmosphere in. Eventually, if the areas far off are all vacuum and ice, the air in our atmosphere will have to vertically equalize, and it will all end up as ice on the vast outer plains.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2013, 02:29:01 AM »
The air would turn to liquid before it turns to a solid.  Liquids can form into streams and flow back to warmer climates.

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2013, 03:02:49 AM »
The air would turn to liquid before it turns to a solid.  Liquids can form into streams and flow back to warmer climates.
So the outer disk is a big cone shape, nicely funneling the water back to us?
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2013, 03:10:36 AM »
The air would turn to liquid before it turns to a solid.  Liquids can form into streams and flow back to warmer climates.
So the outer disk is a big cone shape, nicely funneling the water back to us?

If the liquid went the other way, eventually the liquid would turn to a solid and block itself.  It would make a dam that would not let the liquid go farther.  I think it is reasonable to assume that, eventually, liquid would make its way back towards warmer climates and evaporate. 

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2013, 04:48:56 AM »
The air would turn to liquid before it turns to a solid.  Liquids can form into streams and flow back to warmer climates.
So the outer disk is a big cone shape, nicely funneling the water back to us?

If the liquid went the other way, eventually the liquid would turn to a solid and block itself.  It would make a dam that would not let the liquid go farther.  I think it is reasonable to assume that, eventually, liquid would make its way back towards warmer climates and evaporate.
The sun is a constant energy source, heating up the air in our atmosphere. This will create a pressure gradient, pushing air outwards in all directions. The gas is forced to expand, but the UA causes the Earth to accelerate upwards and creates a vertical pressure gradient. However, there is no constraint in the horizontal direction. The energy of the sun will thus act as a constant source of force pushing air laterally, with no force to resist it. Hence, the only stable equilibrium is for all of the air to end up as frozen ice.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 05:02:11 AM »
I have thought about this.  It could be that the air is in a constant state of being recycled, if you will.  Some of it stays as ice and moves like a glacier.  Some of it is liquid and pooling or flowing to warmer areas where it evaporates.  The air could be constantly moving rimwards and repeating this cycle.

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2013, 05:08:59 AM »
I have thought about this.  It could be that the air is in a constant state of being recycled, if you will.  Some of it stays as ice and moves like a glacier.  Some of it is liquid and pooling or flowing to warmer areas where it evaporates.  The air could be constantly moving rimwards and repeating this cycle.
Indeed. The question is simply where the energy comes from. Also, those have to be very cold liquid streams, we are talking liquid nitrogen here.
Now that I think about it, at such low pressures, the air cannot become a liquid. As the pressure decreases, the boiling point drops. As the air moves away from the sun, it is probably going to continue to spread out and stay gas. If you put liquid nitrogen into a vacuum, I am thinking that it will rapidly boil off, not stay a liquid.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2013, 05:16:03 AM »
There should be some kind of equilibrium concerning the pressure and temperature.  Like I said before, the Earth could be many times bigger than you or I can imagine. 

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2013, 05:30:57 AM »
There should be some kind of equilibrium concerning the pressure and temperature.  Like I said before, the Earth could be many times bigger than you or I can imagine.
Regardless how big it is, the only equilibrium can be the outflow of gas, since there is a constant energy source of the sun, and no horizontal constraint. Arguably, just like in RET, we can lose energy by radiating heat into space. Still, the energy input from the sun will slowly heat up the whole Earth, it will spread out. The more it spreads out, the more it pushes back the ice layer, and the more air we lose. However, it is too lat and I my thermo is too bad for me to put any math behind this. Perhaps tomorrow.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2013, 05:37:33 AM »
In RET, the farther south you go, the colder the average temperatures are.

It is the same in FET, just for different reasons.  If the Earth is large enough, eventually, the temperature would be 0K, theoretically.  Eventually, no sun light would even reach the ground.

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ERTW

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2013, 05:44:30 AM »
In RET, the farther south you go, the colder the average temperatures are.

It is the same in FET, just for different reasons.  If the Earth is large enough, eventually, the temperature would be 0K, theoretically.  Eventually, no sun light would even reach the ground.
The energy from the sun will propagate outwards to infinity. It will emit light that will heat up the surface of the Earth at an arbitrary distance, assuming it is a spherical source, which it sure seems like. The angle of incidence will decrease, but never be zero. Also, the energy received in the atmosphere above the ground will make its way in all directions, also reaching the ground. Also, conduction through the ground will bring heat from our warm zone. it will never reach 0K anywhere. However, the issue here is not that it never gets cold anywhere, its just that the distance at which super cold is reached is super duper far. The air that we have has some place to go, and in that place it will end up as 50K ice.
Don't diss physics until you try it!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 05:47:36 AM »
You do not see daylight all day long.  The Sun's light has a finite distance it can travel.

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danger2007

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Re: Falling off the edge?
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 12:18:30 PM »
You do not see daylight all day long.  The Sun's light has a finite distance it can travel.

How exactly are these two statements linked?? The distance light travels has almost nothing to do with why we have a day and night cycle here, other than the fact that it travels far enough to reach earth.

The reason we have day and night cycles is because light travel straight unless something bends it and as the earth rotates the "spot" of light appears to move around the earth, observed as day and night.

ERTW is talking about the suns radiated heat which is an entirely different form of energy.
"When you believe in things that you don't understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain't the way." -  Stevie Wonder, 1972