sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory

  • 250 Replies
  • 53379 Views
*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #180 on: October 16, 2013, 02:44:11 AM »
jroa, cartesian's trolling is pretty obvious.


As far as I am concerned, BB effect produces thrust, it does not violate any of the Newton laws.

Is this guy for real?

The Biefeld Brown effect IMMEDIATELY AND TOTALLY CONTRADICTS the accepted law of attractive gravity.

For the same mass, and for the same suppposed law of gravity, the capacitor will WEIGH LESS in full vacuum experiments.

Terrestrial gravity is ABSOLUTELY LINKED TO electricity.

Reading the section describing the vacuum chamber results, we learn that when the discs are operated at atmospheric pressure they move in the direction of the leading edge wire regardless of outboard wire polarity.  This indicates that in normal atmospheric conditions the discs are propelled forward primarily by unbalanced electrostatic forces due to the prevailing nonlinear field configuration (which causes thrust in the direction of the low field intensity ion cloud regardless of the ion polarity).  On the other hand, the report says that under high vacuum conditions the discs always moved in the direction of the positive pole, regardless of the polarity on the outboard wire.  This indicates that in the absence of the unbalanced forces exerted by ion clouds, the discs moved mainly on the basis of the electrogravitic field effect, always toward the positive (negative G) direction.

These vacuum chamber experiments were a decisive milestone in that they demonstrated beyond a doubt that electrogravitic propulsion was a real physical phenomenon.  The report concludes saying: “It seems perfectly reasonable to conclude that a concentrated force of some kind accumulates within the presence of a strong dielectric.” (i.e., presumably in the presence of a high-K dielectric.)"


Improved versions of this setup replaced the lead spheres with metal plates, and glass rod with dielectric plates or blocks. This created a high voltage parallel plate capacitor with one or more layers. Brown’s British patent #300,111 – issued in 1927 – described what he termed a “cellular gravitator” consisting of numerous metal plates interleaved with dielectric plates, the entire block wrapped in insulating material and end plates connected to output electrodes and a spark gap to limit the input voltage. This device produced significant acceleration.

Later, Brown experimented with saucer-shaped disks with positive and negative electrodes on opposite sides. This created an open-air high voltage capacitor that combined the electrogravitational effect with ion wind phenomena for propulsion. They worked well in air, and they worked well in vacuum.


The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

TOTAL, ABSOLUTE VIOLATION OF THE ACCEPTED LAW OF ATTRACTIVE GRAVITY!


Same effect noticed in the spinning ball experiment of Dr. Bruce DePalma.

A ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart. Those who attribute this to an aerodynamic or atmospheric effect, please note that it works just as well in a vacuum. Also note, this effect has since been verified by other [enlightened] researchers. The decrease in weight of the spinning ball - anti-gravity - can explain why the spinning object goes higher and falls faster than the identical non-rotating control. Current thinking is that there is no special interaction between rotation and gravity. The behavior of rotating objects is simply the addition of ether energy to whatever motion the rotating object is making.

Is this a harnessing of torsional ether waves by rotation? Both balls draw energy into themselves from an unseen source, but the rotating ball absorbs more of this ethereal energy than its counterpart - energy that would be manifest as gravity, moving down into the Earth. With a decrease in torsional ether above the ball, there is a slight decrease in gravity, the ball gets slightly lighter. Needless to say, this effect defies standard theories.

The results of the Spinning Ball Experiment were published in the British Scientific Research Association Journal in 1976. This experiment was also outlined personally by DePalma to Dr. Edward Purcell, one of the most eminent experimental physicists from Harvard at that time. According to DePalma, Purcell, after contemplating the experiment for several minutes, remarked "This will change everything."

It CANNOT be explained without the ether concept: the flagrant violation of Newton's laws, means that for the same mass, the same supposed law of universal gravitation, the spinning ball actually weighed less.



The were reports all over Siberia mentioning the colorful glowing clouds (for days after the event).


Massive glowing "silvery clouds" covered Siberia and northern Europe.

http://prometheus.al.ru/english/phisik/onichelson/tunguska.htm



Unusual phenomena were detected on 30 June 1908 over Eurasia. They included seismic and pressure waves recorded at several observatories; bright luminescence in the night skies; anomalous optical phenomena in the atmosphere, such as massive glowing silvery clouds and brilliant colorful sunsets (Busch, 1908; Zotkin, 1961; Vasilyev et al., 1965).

Over the next few days, "white nights" and unusual silvery clouds were seen over tha vast territory from Siberia to Europe's western borders.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20080626/112250936.html


In many countries of Europe as well as western Siberia, the darkness of night was replaced by an unusual illumination.

(bibliotecapleyades archive)


The specific eyewitness accounts are in Russian (the Kulik expedition) and at such very difficult to locate.


I was able to locate two accounts of photographs being taken at Orlov province (Oka river), and at Kazan.

Photos of the glowing night sky were also taken in Orlov province, Russia, on the nights of June 30 and July 1.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=18&num=5&id=55

Russia, 300 miles east of Moscow. Midnight. A student from Kazan University took street photographs at midnight.
Sky-glow and shining clouds: drawing from a photograph taken in Russia on the night of 30 June - 1 July, 1908



http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/page88.html


ORIGINAL RUSSIAN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS

http://books.google.ro/books?id=Gpwgm022ltMC&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=tunguska+Busch+1908+Zotkin+1961+Vasilyev++1965&source=bl&ots=YK3JsD1NYO&sig=Ws792tUQo_b3iei68XTsvS2oU_A&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=oF1eUoLwLMGo4ASb8YGQDg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20Busch%201908%20Zotkin%201961%20Vasilyev%20%201965&f=false

Zotkin (1961) carefully studied the glowing clouds phenomenon at 100 points in Europe and Asia.

Vasilyev lists 159 cases in Russia alone.


Light nights were produced in Eastern Siberia and all throughout Middle Asia.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:SE6cII7-vU4J:www.spartechsoftware.com/dimensions/earth/Tunguska.htm+&cd=3&hl=ro&ct=clnk&gl=ro




However, the RE still fail to address the following three points which do prove that the Earth is actually flat.

1. The initial path paradox of the ball lightning: a clear defiance of attractive gravity.

The initial path approached Kezhma from the south. Then, the path changed course to the east, to Preobrazhenka, and then west again to the actual site of the blast/shockwave.


LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

Felix Zigel, professor of aerodynamics (Moscow Aviation Institute) and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region.



A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.



2. Eyewitness accounts from Lake Baikal and Nizshne-Karelinskoye: a clear proof that no curvature exists at the surface of the Earth.

Nizshne-Karelinskoye (465 km). Extremely bright (it was impossible to look at it) luminous body was seen rather high in the north-western sky soon after 8 a.m. It looked like a tube (cylinder) and for 10 minutes moved down to the ground. The sky was clear, but only in the side, where the body was seen, a small dark cloud was present low above the horizon. While coming to the ground, the body dispersed (flattened) and at this place a large puff of black smoke appeared. Then a flame emanated from this cloud.

500 meter altitude - 11.6 km visual obstacle
800 meter altitude - 10.4 km visual obstacle
1000 meters altitude - 9.7 km visual obstacle

At around 7:15 a.m., Tungus natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june302008/tunguska_day_6-30-08.php

That is when Tungus natives and others living in the hills northwest of Russia's Lake Baikal reported seeing a column of bluish light, that they described as being almost as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

A few minutes later they reported a flash and a sound that many said resembled artillery fire. The accompanying shock wave broke windows thousands of miles away from the impact zone, and knocked countless numbers of people to the ground.


Even if we take a 560 km distance to Tunguska, and a 1 km altitude (although Lake Baikal is located at some 435 meters in elevation), the visual obstacle will measure 15.5 km, no way for anybody located at Lake Baikal to have seen the explosion itself.

Let us ascend to 1,6 km in altitude at Lake Baikal; even then, the visual obstacle will measure 13.66 km.


NO ONE FROM LAKE BAIKAL OR NIZSHNE COULD HAVE SEEN THE EXPLOSION ON A ROUND EARTH.


3. The fact that the initial path was seen all the way from London, TEN MINUTES PRIOR TO THE EXPLOSION: no curvature whatsoever between London and Tunguska. The fact that despite a 2578.8 km visual obstacle in Stockholm photographs could be taken without flash apparatus.

The visual obstacle will measure: 2578.8 km

The very trajectory of the object was seen BEFORE THE EXPLOSION EVER TOOK PLACE, between 0:00 am and 0:15 am (London time) - the explosion itself occurred at 7:15 - 7:20 am (Tunguska time):

“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself.  I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m."

INSTANTANEOUSLY, the explosion itself caused these phenomena all over Europe:

In London on the night of June 30th the air-glow illuminates the northern quadrant of the heavens so brightly that the Times can be read at midnight. In Antwerp the glare of what looks like a huge bonfire rises twenty degrees above the northern horizon, and the sweep second hands of stopwatches are clearly visible at one a.m. In Stockholm, photographers find they can take pictures out of doors without need of cumbersome flash apparatus at any time of night from June 30th to July 3rd.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.



Since the light of the Sun could not be seen from London (7:15 am, local time, cloudless day) due to the curvature (or any light reflection phenomena), as we are told by official science, THEN CERTAINLY NO LIGHT FROM AN EXPLOSION WHICH OCCURRED AT 7 KM IN ALTITUDE COULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AT ALL, AT THE SAME TIME.


*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #181 on: October 16, 2013, 02:54:48 AM »

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #182 on: October 16, 2013, 03:01:18 AM »
FINAL REPORT FROM SIBERIA:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 03:09:26 AM by sandokhan »

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #183 on: October 16, 2013, 03:38:17 AM »
I only comment on each new point you bring in. I am ignoring old points regardless how many times you copy paste it.

MORE REPORTS FROM SIBERIA:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=4DMIRLOPlagC&pg=PA79&dq=tunguska+bright+lights+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=XWFeUrqrHYnIswbUq4GwCg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=glow&f=false

pg. 79

The sky over Siberia radiated an unusual glow well into the evening.
Where is the eyewitness report itself? Where in Russia was this eyewitness from? Where does it say that it lasted days/nights after the blast? Have you ever questioned yourself why all glow could only be observed west of Tunguska? Why don't we see any report from any eyewitness east of Tunguska?



FINAL REPORT FROM SIBERIA:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.

Where is the eyewitness report itself? Why did you not carry on reading? Did you forget to include the sentence that follows; this light was being reflected by a stream of dust particles that were ripped off a comet as it entered the atmosphere before colliding with the Earth's surface ? Have you ever questioned yourself why all glow could only be observed west of Tunguska? Why don't we see any report from any eyewitness east of Tunguska?


Until you can produce a local eyewitness report about light in Tunguska in the nights/days following the blast, your point doesn't stand at all. And also any light from Tunguska on a flat earth should have been visible from any direction. Not only west. Maybe I should also ask you to find any eyewitness report from people living east of Tunguska. You don't mind doing a bit of homework do you?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2013, 03:43:58 AM by Cartesian »
I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #184 on: October 16, 2013, 03:48:26 AM »
I was able to locate two accounts of photographs being taken at Orlov province (Oka river), and at Kazan.

Photos of the glowing night sky were also taken in Orlov province, Russia, on the nights of June 30 and July 1.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/insights/?vol=18&num=5&id=55
Where is the photo?


Russia, 300 miles east of Moscow. Midnight. A student from Kazan University took street photographs at midnight.
Sky-glow and shining clouds: drawing from a photograph taken in Russia on the night of 30 June - 1 July, 1908



http://www.phenomena.org.uk/features/page88/page88.html
This is not local.

I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2013, 04:00:09 AM »
ORIGINAL RUSSIAN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS

some book

Zotkin (1961) carefully studied the glowing clouds phenomenon at 100 points in Europe and Asia.
Did you read the entire paragraph at least? Or do you want to mislead us again? Let me type it entirely for you.
Quote
Zotkin (1961) studied the bright nights, observed in 114 points of the globe. He distinguished observations following the 30 June from those preceding that date. He considers the latter poorly reliable and of "local character", whereas the events observed from the 30 June did not have a "local" character and were observed in more than a hundred points of Europe and Asia.
Don't you realize that Zotkin did exactly what I am doing to you now sandokhan. Zotkin could not find any local observation following the blast! So good luck with your research.

To be honest I am tired with your deceptions. You make me unnecessarily read irrelevant documents. You're just a hopeless liar.
I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2013, 04:06:47 AM »
Vasilyev lists 159 cases in Russia alone.

Again selective copy paste to deceive us
Quote
Vasilyev (1965) considered a more complete data set and referred to 86 communications and articles dated to 1908. He lists 14 cases of bright nights from 21 to 29 June 1908 and 159 cases from 30 June up to 3 July (in subsequent papers, he indicates about twenty other cases from 4 to 28 July). He considers all these cases related to the Tunguska event and this is not easy to explain.

Don't you think this is even worse for your case sandokhan? Light was already observed even before the explosion!!

I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2013, 04:53:23 AM »
From the same book:
Quote
As can be seen, the bright nights were observed on an area of about 12 million km², from the longitude 6.5° W (Armagh, Ireland; see Fig. 18.6) up to 92.9° E (Krasnoyarsk) and from the latitude 41° N (Tashkent) up to 60° N (Petersburg).
This confirms my argument that the bright nights were only observed from west south-west of the blast location.



Can you find me any eyewitness report of bright nights from Tunguska or east of Tunguska sandokhan? :P
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #188 on: October 17, 2013, 05:45:36 AM »
cartesian...your trolling does not impress anybody anymore.

You asked specifically for eyewitness reports from Tunguska itself.


http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.

This is as local as an eyewitness report can get, given the geography of the river Tunguska.


Don't try to bs your way around here, it doesn't work with me.

Why did you not carry on reading? Did you forget to include the sentence that follows; this light was being reflected by a stream of dust particles that were ripped off a comet as it entered the atmosphere before colliding with the Earth's surface ? Have you ever questioned yourself why all glow could only be observed west of Tunguska? Why don't we see any report from any eyewitness east of Tunguska?


Your ignorance on the subject is noted.

I did not forget to include the quote you mentioned: it is not necessary to include it anywhere in our discussion.

1. The initial path paradox of the ball lightning: a clear defiance of attractive gravity.

The initial path approached Kezhma from the south. Then, the path changed course to the east, to Preobrazhenka, and then west again to the actual site of the blast/shockwave.


LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

Felix Zigel, professor of aerodynamics (Moscow Aviation Institute) and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region.



A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.


To talk about dust particles/ice crystals, with an explosion at some 7 km in the atmosphere on one side of the globe, and a very clear view of the initial trajectory/flash of the explosion from the other side of the hypothetical globe, means that you have no explanation for the facts involved here.

According to your explanation, we should have a 24 hour a day constant sunlight...this is what the dust particle/ice crystal theory implies:

In the right circumstances refraction can continue to refract light indefinitely, parallel to the earth's surface.

Certainly the sun's rays of light (official theory) will be parallel to some portion of the surface at some time in the earth's rotation.


cartesian...you are still ignoring the most basic fact of the Tunguska event:

If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.


Since the light of the Sun could not be seen from London (7:15 am, local time, cloudless day) due to the curvature (or any light reflection phenomena), as we are told by official science, THEN CERTAINLY NO LIGHT FROM AN EXPLOSION WHICH OCCURRED AT 7 KM IN ALTITUDE COULD HAVE BEEN SEEN AT ALL, AT THE SAME TIME.


I included a vast bibliography which does specify that bright lights were seen for days in Siberia (east and west), just as you requested.

Don't you think this is even worse for your case sandokhan? Light was already observed even before the explosion!!

Exactly. Only within the double helix theory of the magnetic field can this extraordinary observation be explained.

The first to learn of the coming calamity were the shamans of the native tribes. Two months before the explosion, rumours of the approaching "end of the world" began to spread across the taiga. Going from one settlement to another, the shamans warned the people of an imminent cataclysm. The people began to move their herds from the upper reaches of the Podkamennaya Tunguska to the Nizhniaya Tunguska and further, towards the River Lena.
 
The exodus of the Evenk began immediately after a suglan (gathering) of all the nomadic clans who moved around in close proximity, which took place in the month of Teliat (May). A secret conference of the elders had resolved that the cyclical course of their wanderings should be changed and that the clans should move close together along the new course.

Then there was a big ritual occasion at which the "Great Shaman" announced the "End of the World":
The ancestors said that they had to move from their traditional places. No one should be there after the month of Teliat in the month of Muchun [June], thus said the ancestors... The upper people want to visit Dulia... No one should see that.
And so the nomads began to move across the taiga...

Obeying some inner sense and supporting, as it were, the pronouncements of the shamans, the wild animals began to leave. The birds flew from their nesting grounds, the swans left the lakes and the fish disappeared from the rivers. An immense expanse of taiga, measuring several tens of thousands of square kilometers, lost its fauna. Only those who did not believe the shamans’ words remained in the danger zone.

All this speaks for itself. Obviously some early warning of the approaching event was given through the shamans who "spoke with the spirits of the ancestors". The animals, birds and fish reacted instinctively to the approaching danger, reacting to the negative influence of the Earth’s increasing electromagnetic field in that part of the taiga.


Many years later, researchers from Tomsk came across a forgotten publication by a Professor Weber about a powerful geo-magnetic disturbance observed in a laboratory at Kiel University in Germany for three days before the intrusion of the Tunguska object, and which ended at the very hour when the gigantic bolide exploded above the Central Siberian Plateau.


Tesla experimented with the ball lightning ether for YEARS before the Tunguska event; from the Wardenclyffe tower he sent longitudinal waves for days BEFORE the event itself in order to carefully set up the experiment.


Let us return the description of the trajectory of the ball lightning.

LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


This expert aerial navigation using Lake Baikal as a reference point was carefully investigated by Tesla days prior to the explosion itself.


Now, let me describe how the entire experiment was carried out.



In the continuous mode, two continuous scalar waves are emitted -- one faster than the other -- and they pair-couple into vector energy at the region where they approach an in-phase condition. In this mode, the energy in the distant "ball" or geometric region would appear continuously and be sustained -- and this is Tesla's secret of wireless transmission of energy at a distance without any losses.

Two scalar antennas were required: an explosion requires the presence of both scalar waves at the same point.

Tesla sent just one scalar wave for several days prior to the explosion to properly set up the aerial navigation.


I included the Zotkin reference so that you would understand that over 100 points in Europe AND ASIA were used for the research.

But I included also the Vasilyev report, which was better prepared and researched: 159 cases in all.

Then I included the specific Tunguska report you requested.

http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.



Now you want reports from East Asia.

Let us remember that in 1908 there was a language barrier in China, Koreea and Manciuria.

Also it is possible that the two scalar waves were sent somewhere in the Gobi desert area/East Siberia region, from where Tesla directed them to the proper destination.


Here is your report from East Asia.


http://www.halexandria.org/dward232.htm

Herdsman in the Gobi desert to the south described a fireball streaking across the sky along a flight path (based on a later reconstruction) at about 10o, just slightly east of true north.  Along this direction, the object approached Keshma from the south.  Then the object was observed by others moving very nearly due east toward Preobrazhenka.  This was followed by the object moving slightly north of due west toward Vanavara.  The explosion itself was oval shaped, suggesting a prior motion in the westerly direction.     

With a distance of 2000 km, and an altitude of 2 km, the visual obstacle will measure 275 km, nothing could have been seen from that distance (the explosion itself occurred at an altitude of 7 km).


There are also reports (I was not able to locate the reference) that the ball lightning was seen from the Indian Ocean (sailors aboard a ship).


You have chosen to dodge and avoid answering the facts which do prove that the earth is flat.

Nizshne-Karelinskoye (465 km). Extremely bright (it was impossible to look at it) luminous body was seen rather high in the north-western sky soon after 8 a.m. It looked like a tube (cylinder) and for 10 minutes moved down to the ground. The sky was clear, but only in the side, where the body was seen, a small dark cloud was present low above the horizon. While coming to the ground, the body dispersed (flattened) and at this place a large puff of black smoke appeared. Then a flame emanated from this cloud.

500 meter altitude - 11.6 km visual obstacle
800 meter altitude - 10.4 km visual obstacle
1000 meters altitude - 9.7 km visual obstacle

At around 7:15 a.m., Tungus natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june302008/tunguska_day_6-30-08.php

That is when Tungus natives and others living in the hills northwest of Russia's Lake Baikal reported seeing a column of bluish light, that they described as being almost as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

A few minutes later they reported a flash and a sound that many said resembled artillery fire. The accompanying shock wave broke windows thousands of miles away from the impact zone, and knocked countless numbers of people to the ground.


Even if we take a 560 km distance to Tunguska, and a 1 km altitude (although Lake Baikal is located at some 435 meters in elevation), the visual obstacle will measure 15.5 km, no way for anybody located at Lake Baikal to have seen the explosion itself.

Let us ascend to 1,6 km in altitude at Lake Baikal; even then, the visual obstacle will measure 13.66 km.


YOU CANNOT IGNORE THESE FACTS ANY LONGER.


“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself.  I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m."

INSTANTANEOUSLY, the explosion itself caused these phenomena all over Europe:

In London on the night of June 30th the air-glow illuminates the northern quadrant of the heavens so brightly that the Times can be read at midnight. In Antwerp the glare of what looks like a huge bonfire rises twenty degrees above the northern horizon, and the sweep second hands of stopwatches are clearly visible at one a.m. In Stockholm, photographers find they can take pictures out of doors without need of cumbersome flash apparatus at any time of night from June 30th to July 3rd.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.


YOU CANNOT ANY LONGER IGNORE AND DODGE THESE FACTS.

Felix Zigel, an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation, has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

Felix Zigel, professor of aerodynamics (Moscow Aviation Institute) and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region.


A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.



*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #189 on: October 17, 2013, 06:07:57 AM »
Also it is possible that the two scalar waves were sent somewhere in the Gobi desert area/East Siberia region, from where Tesla directed them to the proper destination.


Here is your report from East Asia.


http://www.halexandria.org/dward232.htm

Herdsman in the Gobi desert to the south described a fireball streaking across the sky along a flight path (based on a later reconstruction) at about 10o, just slightly east of true north.  Along this direction, the object approached Keshma from the south.  Then the object was observed by others moving very nearly due east toward Preobrazhenka.  This was followed by the object moving slightly north of due west toward Vanavara.  The explosion itself was oval shaped, suggesting a prior motion in the westerly direction.     

With a distance of 2000 km, and an altitude of 2 km, the visual obstacle will measure 275 km, nothing could have been seen from that distance (the explosion itself occurred at an altitude of 7 km).



Now, from the work Siberia by M.K. Anderson (Examines the history, people, industry and agriculture of the mysterious Russian lands which comprise one-third of the Asian continent) we have the following account:

...passage of the Tunguska fireball, using the collection of eyewitness reports marking its trail from Mongolia's Gobi Desert (page 16)

Investigations showed that, cylindrical tube shape was first detected by Caravans in Gobi desert in China then picked by southern Russia after dawn, leaving multicolored vapor trail; it was getting lower all the time, till the explosion.

http://www.exmfpropulsions.com/ufoscience/historical/#Tunguska_1908


This is the reason it was seen only starting with the Gobi desert: in the continuous mode, two continuous scalar waves are emitted -- one faster than the other -- and they pair-couple into vector energy at the region where they approach an in-phase condition. In this mode, the energy in the distant "ball" or geometric region would appear continuously and be sustained -- and this is Tesla's secret of wireless transmission of energy at a distance without any losses.

Two scalar antennas were required: an explosion requires the presence of both scalar waves at the same point.

The Gobi desert was in fact the very place where both scalar waves first appeared, then the fireball was navigated by Tesla to lake Baikal.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #190 on: October 17, 2013, 06:19:35 AM »
An expert on the Tunguska event, V.G. Fesenkov:

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1966SvA....10..195F&classic=YES

He clearly describes that the INITIAL REPORTS ARE VERY RELIABLE, and specifies which reports are not to be relied upon.

This is exactly what I included in my previous message.


Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #191 on: October 17, 2013, 06:32:41 AM »
I am now doing exactly what you do; copy pasting the same thing over and over:

I only comment on each new point you bring in. I am ignoring old points regardless how many times you copy paste it.

MORE REPORTS FROM SIBERIA:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=4DMIRLOPlagC&pg=PA79&dq=tunguska+bright+lights+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=XWFeUrqrHYnIswbUq4GwCg&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=glow&f=false

pg. 79

The sky over Siberia radiated an unusual glow well into the evening.
Where is the eyewitness report itself? Where in Russia was this eyewitness from? Where does it say that it lasted days/nights after the blast? Have you ever questioned yourself why all glow could only be observed west of Tunguska? Why don't we see any report from any eyewitness east of Tunguska?



FINAL REPORT FROM SIBERIA:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.

Where is the eyewitness report itself? Why did you not carry on reading? Did you forget to include the sentence that follows; this light was being reflected by a stream of dust particles that were ripped off a comet as it entered the atmosphere before colliding with the Earth's surface ? Have you ever questioned yourself why all glow could only be observed west of Tunguska? Why don't we see any report from any eyewitness east of Tunguska?


Until you can produce a local eyewitness report about light in Tunguska in the nights/days following the blast, your point doesn't stand at all. And also any light from Tunguska on a flat earth should have been visible from any direction. Not only west. Maybe I should also ask you to find any eyewitness report from people living east of Tunguska. You don't mind doing a bit of homework do you?
I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #192 on: October 17, 2013, 06:35:57 AM »
Now you want reports from East Asia.

Let us remember that in 1908 there was a language barrier in China, Koreea and Manciuria.

Also it is possible that the two scalar waves were sent somewhere in the Gobi desert area/East Siberia region, from where Tesla directed them to the proper destination.


Here is your report from East Asia.


http://www.halexandria.org/dward232.htm

Herdsman in the Gobi desert to the south described a fireball streaking across the sky along a flight path (based on a later reconstruction) at about 10o, just slightly east of true north.  Along this direction, the object approached Keshma from the south.  Then the object was observed by others moving very nearly due east toward Preobrazhenka.  This was followed by the object moving slightly north of due west toward Vanavara.  The explosion itself was oval shaped, suggesting a prior motion in the westerly direction.     

With a distance of 2000 km, and an altitude of 2 km, the visual obstacle will measure 275 km, nothing could have been seen from that distance (the explosion itself occurred at an altitude of 7 km).


There are also reports (I was not able to locate the reference) that the ball lightning was seen from the Indian Ocean (sailors aboard a ship).
This is not an eyewitness report about glow in the nights/days following the blast. I asked you to find me eyewitness report about the glow outside the red box:

I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #193 on: October 17, 2013, 06:45:36 AM »
I did answer the dust particle comet argument.

Please read carefully.

Your ignorance on the subject is noted.

I did not forget to include the quote you mentioned: it is not necessary to include it anywhere in our discussion.

1. The initial path paradox of the ball lightning: a clear defiance of attractive gravity.

The initial path approached Kezhma from the south. Then, the path changed course to the east, to Preobrazhenka, and then west again to the actual site of the blast/shockwave.


LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.

Felix Zigel, professor of aerodynamics (Moscow Aviation Institute) and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region.



A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.


To talk about dust particles/ice crystals, with an explosion at some 7 km in the atmosphere on one side of the globe, and a very clear view of the initial trajectory/flash of the explosion from the other side of the hypothetical globe, means that you have no explanation for the facts involved here.

According to your explanation, we should have a 24 hour a day constant sunlight...this is what the dust particle/ice crystal theory implies:

In the right circumstances refraction can continue to refract light indefinitely, parallel to the earth's surface.

Certainly the sun's rays of light (official theory) will be parallel to some portion of the surface at some time in the earth's rotation.


The Tunguska event WAS NOT caused by either a comet, an asteroid, a meteorite or a volcanic explosion.


I did provide several references on the Western Siberia sightings of the glowing clouds.

Massive glowing "silvery clouds" covered Siberia and northern Europe.

http://prometheus.al.ru/english/phisik/onichelson/tunguska.htm



Unusual phenomena were detected on 30 June 1908 over Eurasia. They included seismic and pressure waves recorded at several observatories; bright luminescence in the night skies; anomalous optical phenomena in the atmosphere, such as massive glowing silvery clouds and brilliant colorful sunsets (Busch, 1908; Zotkin, 1961; Vasilyev et al., 1965).

Over the next few days, "white nights" and unusual silvery clouds were seen over tha vast territory from Siberia to Europe's western borders.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20080626/112250936.html


In many countries of Europe as well as western Siberia, the darkness of night was replaced by an unusual illumination.

(bibliotecapleyades archive)


This would be sufficient for any serious researcher.


But I went even further to locate this reference:


http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.



Most probably the original report is from Kulik's initial expedition, and as such, is in Russian; we need here someone who speaks russian in order to locate the reference precisely.


However, here is a report from the Gobi Desert:



http://www.halexandria.org/dward232.htm

Herdsman in the Gobi desert to the south described a fireball streaking across the sky along a flight path (based on a later reconstruction) at about 10o, just slightly east of true north.  Along this direction, the object approached Keshma from the south.  Then the object was observed by others moving very nearly due east toward Preobrazhenka.  This was followed by the object moving slightly north of due west toward Vanavara.  The explosion itself was oval shaped, suggesting a prior motion in the westerly direction.     

With a distance of 2000 km, and an altitude of 2 km, the visual obstacle will measure 275 km, nothing could have been seen from that distance (the explosion itself occurred at an altitude of 7 km).


Most probably Kulik did not ask the specific question about the glowing clouds being seen for several days after the event: he was satisfied to obtain the herdsmen's description of the fireball.


Again, you have been offered several references on Western Siberia (see the previous paragraphs) which are sufficient from a scientific point of view: the glowing clouds were seen all over Siberia for days after the explosion.


You have dodged for the fifth time the initial trajectory of the ball lightning paradox, the eyewitness accounts from Lake Baikal and much more.


*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #194 on: October 17, 2013, 06:47:54 AM »
Please explain the trajectory of the ball lightning:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.


If you cannot do this, it is all over for you and the RE.

A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #195 on: October 17, 2013, 06:49:49 AM »
Please explain these initial reports.

Nizshne-Karelinskoye (465 km). Extremely bright (it was impossible to look at it) luminous body was seen rather high in the north-western sky soon after 8 a.m. It looked like a tube (cylinder) and for 10 minutes moved down to the ground. The sky was clear, but only in the side, where the body was seen, a small dark cloud was present low above the horizon. While coming to the ground, the body dispersed (flattened) and at this place a large puff of black smoke appeared. Then a flame emanated from this cloud.

500 meter altitude - 11.6 km visual obstacle
800 meter altitude - 10.4 km visual obstacle
1000 meters altitude - 9.7 km visual obstacle

At around 7:15 a.m., Tungus natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june302008/tunguska_day_6-30-08.php

That is when Tungus natives and others living in the hills northwest of Russia's Lake Baikal reported seeing a column of bluish light, that they described as being almost as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

A few minutes later they reported a flash and a sound that many said resembled artillery fire. The accompanying shock wave broke windows thousands of miles away from the impact zone, and knocked countless numbers of people to the ground.


Even if we take a 560 km distance to Tunguska, and a 1 km altitude (although Lake Baikal is located at some 435 meters in elevation), the visual obstacle will measure 15.5 km, no way for anybody located at Lake Baikal to have seen the explosion itself.

Let us ascend to 1,6 km in altitude at Lake Baikal; even then, the visual obstacle will measure 13.66 km.


If you refuse to answer, it is all over for you and the RE.

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #196 on: October 17, 2013, 06:50:10 AM »
1. The initial path paradox of the ball lightning: a clear defiance of attractive gravity.

I don't care about this and I don't want to speculate about this. My focus is now to get you to prove that the glow after the blast was caused by some lights over Tunguska.
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #197 on: October 17, 2013, 06:51:36 AM »
Please explain the following fact.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #198 on: October 17, 2013, 06:55:00 AM »
1. The initial path paradox of the ball lightning: a clear defiance of attractive gravity.

I don't care about this and I don't want to speculate about this. My focus is now to get you to prove that the glow after the blast was caused by some lights over Tunguska.

It doesn't work like this.

How can you NOT care about the initial path of the ball lightning?

Then you accept that the Earth is stationary.

Please explain the trajectory of the ball lightning:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60º55' N, 101º57' E (LeMaire 1980).


The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.


If you cannot do this, it is all over for you and the RE.

A clear proof that the Earth does not rotate around its own axis: the object itself (that could not have been a comet, asteroid, meteorite, rocket or jet airplane) DEFIED attractive gravity. At 29 km/s (speed of the round earth orbiting the sun) the object itself should have disappeared instantly from view.


Certainly this initial trajectory was seen all the way from London.

“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself.  I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m."


It is all over for you and the RE.

Your constant dodging is obvious: you cannot explain the path of the ball lightning, nor the fact THAT IT WAS SEEN ALL THE WAY FROM LONDON.

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #199 on: October 17, 2013, 06:55:04 AM »
So far what you are doing is to keep posting either:
  • local reports about the blast
  • non local reports about the glow
I keep saying I DO NOT WANT THOSE! What I want is an eyewitness report about the glow after the blast from local or west Tunguska
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #200 on: October 17, 2013, 06:58:01 AM »
I did provide several references on the Western Siberia sightings of the glowing clouds.

Massive glowing "silvery clouds" covered Siberia and northern Europe.

http://prometheus.al.ru/english/phisik/onichelson/tunguska.htm



Unusual phenomena were detected on 30 June 1908 over Eurasia. They included seismic and pressure waves recorded at several observatories; bright luminescence in the night skies; anomalous optical phenomena in the atmosphere, such as massive glowing silvery clouds and brilliant colorful sunsets (Busch, 1908; Zotkin, 1961; Vasilyev et al., 1965).

Over the next few days, "white nights" and unusual silvery clouds were seen over tha vast territory from Siberia to Europe's western borders.

http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20080626/112250936.html


In many countries of Europe as well as western Siberia, the darkness of night was replaced by an unusual illumination.

(bibliotecapleyades archive)


This would be sufficient for any serious researcher.


But I went even further to locate this reference:


http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.



Most probably the original report is from Kulik's initial expedition, and as such, is in Russian; we need here someone who speaks russian in order to locate the reference precisely.


However, here is a report from the Gobi Desert:



http://www.halexandria.org/dward232.htm

Herdsman in the Gobi desert to the south described a fireball streaking across the sky along a flight path (based on a later reconstruction) at about 10o, just slightly east of true north.  Along this direction, the object approached Keshma from the south.  Then the object was observed by others moving very nearly due east toward Preobrazhenka.  This was followed by the object moving slightly north of due west toward Vanavara.  The explosion itself was oval shaped, suggesting a prior motion in the westerly direction.     

With a distance of 2000 km, and an altitude of 2 km, the visual obstacle will measure 275 km, nothing could have been seen from that distance (the explosion itself occurred at an altitude of 7 km).


Most probably Kulik did not ask the specific question about the glowing clouds being seen for several days after the event: he was satisfied to obtain the herdsmen's description of the fireball.


Again, you have been offered several references on Western Siberia (see the previous paragraphs) which are sufficient from a scientific point of view: the glowing clouds were seen all over Siberia for days after the explosion.


Your dodging of the initial path paradox, the eyewitness accounts from Lake Baikal, and the report from London at 0:00 midnight means you accept TOTAL DEFEAT.

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #201 on: October 17, 2013, 07:02:33 AM »
Please provide an eyewitness report about the glow after the blast from local or west of Tunguska (outside the red box below) before you proceed further.

« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:04:06 AM by Cartesian »
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #202 on: October 17, 2013, 07:16:59 AM »
ORIGINAL RUSSIAN SITE, KULIK EXPEDITION: http://tunguska.tsc.ru/ru/science/1/0/20/

ALTAY SECTION.

testimony of Ivan Kudryavtsev Nikanorovich .

"June 30, 1908 the day was clear, the height of the Parts. Dawn I went with the horses. At 6:00 brought the horses from the pasture, and we sat down to breakfast. I sat across from a window on the West.

Our village ALEKSANDROVKA stretches along the gorge through which flows a mountain creek Quiet. Right on the river Quiet was Seminsky ridge, and the left - Anuysky. Semínský opposite the village on top of a mountain ridge towered looking. Sun at 7 o'clock in the morning had risen, but because of the mountain looking not yet appeared.

And suddenly appeared on the horizon of light ball, it quickly grew in size and brightness. The direction of the flight was to NE. The size of a flying ball was like the moon, only brighter, without dazzling brightness, and it was possible to look at his flight, without stopping. The flight was very quick. Along the way, the ball remained belodymny flight track is wider than the ball. Once there was this ball, the whole place was lit up by some unnatural light, and this light was not exactly progressive, but with some variations, the wave flash. No noise, drone during a flight of the ball was not, but unnatural, a flickering light is induced fear and anxiety.

Rose concern among domestic animals and birds. The dog rushed in his kennel, chickens to roost. Horses gave up eating oats, which I poured and agitated. Geese guffawed loudly. People ran out into the street and looked in disbelief at the sky. After a decent time, started some unnatural noise, earth tremors deaf and deaf-hum, as from a distant thunderstorm. Next flight of the ball in the sky slowly diverged, but could see almost to the evening in the melt state. This unusual phenomenon was thrilled people.

At that time I already had some idea of ​​meteorites, fireballs. In the village school then this is not taught, but I took the teacher's book Astronomy "and read it. Teacher said it was flying great heavenly stone-car and fell somewhere in the north, in the taiga.

After the fall of the car fell on some light night. In the moonless in our mountain valleys are usually dark nights, but almost till the autumn nights were bright. "

TILL THE AUTUMN NIGHTS WERE BRIGHT.


End of discussion.



Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #203 on: October 17, 2013, 07:25:00 AM »
http://tunguska.tsc.ru/ru/science/1/0/20/
Quote
In 1972, JL Kandiba while in Biysk, recorded the testimony of Ivan Kudryavtsev Nikanorovich .

"June 30, 1908 the day was clear, the height of the Parts. Dawn I went with the horses. At 6:00 brought the horses from the pasture, and we sat down to breakfast. I sat across from a window on the West.

Our village ALEKSANDROVKA stretches along the gorge through which flows a mountain creek Quiet. Right on the river Quiet was Seminsky ridge, and the left - Anuysky. Semínský opposite the village on top of a mountain ridge towered looking. Sun at 7 o'clock in the morning had risen, but because of the mountain looking not yet appeared.

And suddenly appeared on the horizon of light ball, it quickly grew in size and brightness. The direction of the flight was to NE. The size of a flying ball was like the moon, only brighter, without dazzling brightness, and it was possible to look at his flight, without stopping. The flight was very quick. Along the way, the ball remained belodymny flight track is wider than the ball. Once there was this ball, the whole place was lit up by some unnatural light, and this light was not exactly progressive, but with some variations, the wave flash. No noise, drone during a flight of the ball was not, but unnatural, a flickering light is induced fear and anxiety.

Rose concern among domestic animals and birds. The dog rushed in his kennel, chickens to roost. Horses gave up eating oats, which I poured and agitated. Geese guffawed loudly. People ran out into the street and looked in disbelief at the sky. After a decent time, started some unnatural noise, earth tremors deaf and deaf-hum, as from a distant thunderstorm. Next flight of the ball in the sky slowly diverged, but could see almost to the evening in the melt state. This unusual phenomenon was thrilled people.

At that time I already had some idea of ​​meteorites, fireballs. In the village school then this is not taught, but I took the teacher's book Astronomy "and read it. Teacher said it was flying great heavenly stone-car and fell somewhere in the north, in the taiga.

After the fall of the car fell on some light night. In the moonless in our mountain valleys are usually dark nights, but almost till the autumn nights were bright.
Good boy for looking for more reports but I am afraid you need to work harder since Biysk is 52.5167° N, 85.1667° E which is still within the red box (from the longitude 6.5° W up to 92.9° E and from the latitude 41° N up to 60° N).
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #204 on: October 17, 2013, 07:36:49 AM »
Listen you dork...your tricks do not work with me.

http://tunguska.tsc.ru/ru/science/1/0/12/

134. Andrey Gordeev, F. , born in 1897, Russian, illiterate farmer, clarity is good memories. Point of observation and interviewing with. Tokma, p. Nepal (Gostorg, 2 km upriver from the village).

"That was before he left the army before the revolution was about 17-18. Summer, at the meadow, before lunch, at 12 o'clock." The angular height of the sun at the time of observation 50 on , azimuth 120 on . "The weather is clear, windless. Was in the yard, mowing or rowing." Seems to have attracted the attention of his blows. Saw the body with sharp edges, form - the ball. Neither fire nor smoky tail was not. On the body can be viewed with the naked eye. Color of different parts of the body is the same. Point observations: azimuth 30 o , 25 height of the point of extinction: the azimuth of 110 o , height 25 on . The trajectory parallel to the horizon. The entire visible region of the trajectory lying to the left of the sun. Thermal sensations of the body was not. The shadows of the things not seen. Did not see the light flash, posts on the horizon - as well. Flight time - 10 seconds. Closer to the speed of the aircraft than a shooting star. Sounds: explosions, as the guns or even stronger, stronger than thunder in a thunderstorm. Had two strikes before the body and three - after the appearance. Recent attacks have been stronger. About moving sound source said: "A small stretch of the motion of the body." Sound effects were quickly 1-2 minutes. The earth trembled, that was in the house - do not know. People and animals do not fall. Smoky cloud in the fall did not notice. Bright nights after flying remembers. People were frightened at first. A year after his fall were asked two engineers with the parties - Kokaulin and Kul who went to the crash site a year after the disaster. About the Tunguska meteorite did not read and did not know.


Eyewitness report from the upper reaches of the Lower Tunguska River basin: Gostorg trading station, Vanavara.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif


THIS IS THE ORIGINAL RUSSIAN REPORT USED EARLIER IN THE SIBERIA REFERENCE (50 MILES/80 KM DISTANCE OF THE EPICENTER).


Bright nights after flying remembers.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Eyewitness report from Vanavara itself: bright nights seen after June 30, 1908.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 07:39:58 AM by sandokhan »

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #205 on: October 17, 2013, 07:55:06 AM »
Listen you dork...

Watch your language please. This is upper fora.
I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #206 on: October 17, 2013, 07:56:50 AM »
http://tunguska.tsc.ru/ru/science/1/0/12/

134. Andrey Gordeev, F. , born in 1897, Russian, illiterate farmer, clarity is good memories. Point of observation and interviewing with. Tokma, p. Nepal (Gostorg, 2 km upriver from the village).

"That was before he left the army before the revolution was about 17-18. Summer, at the meadow, before lunch, at 12 o'clock." The angular height of the sun at the time of observation 50 on , azimuth 120 on . "The weather is clear, windless. Was in the yard, mowing or rowing." Seems to have attracted the attention of his blows. Saw the body with sharp edges, form - the ball. Neither fire nor smoky tail was not. On the body can be viewed with the naked eye. Color of different parts of the body is the same. Point observations: azimuth 30 o , 25 height of the point of extinction: the azimuth of 110 o , height 25 on . The trajectory parallel to the horizon. The entire visible region of the trajectory lying to the left of the sun. Thermal sensations of the body was not. The shadows of the things not seen. Did not see the light flash, posts on the horizon - as well. Flight time - 10 seconds. Closer to the speed of the aircraft than a shooting star. Sounds: explosions, as the guns or even stronger, stronger than thunder in a thunderstorm. Had two strikes before the body and three - after the appearance. Recent attacks have been stronger. About moving sound source said: "A small stretch of the motion of the body." Sound effects were quickly 1-2 minutes. The earth trembled, that was in the house - do not know. People and animals do not fall. Smoky cloud in the fall did not notice. Bright nights after flying remembers. People were frightened at first. A year after his fall were asked two engineers with the parties - Kokaulin and Kul who went to the crash site a year after the disaster. About the Tunguska meteorite did not read and did not know.
Nepal is still inside the red box. Sorry.
I think, therefore I am

Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #207 on: October 17, 2013, 08:00:26 AM »
Eyewitness report from the upper reaches of the Lower Tunguska River basin: Gostorg trading station, Vanavara.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif


THIS IS THE ORIGINAL RUSSIAN REPORT USED EARLIER IN THE SIBERIA REFERENCE (50 MILES/80 KM DISTANCE OF THE EPICENTER).


Bright nights after flying remembers.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Eyewitness report from Vanavara itself: bright nights seen after June 30, 1908.
Where is the eyewitness report of this? If this is about the blast then I don't want it. I want the glow one.
I think, therefore I am

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 6483
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #208 on: October 17, 2013, 08:17:43 AM »
You are trolling around cartesian.

Gostorg, Vanavara.

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_tunguska1.gif

40 to 50 miles from the epicenter.

http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1940PA.....48..493L&db_key=AST&page_ind=7&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES (precise location of Gostorg, Vanavara)

134. Andrey Gordeev, F. , born in 1897, Russian, illiterate farmer, clarity is good memories. Point of observation and interviewing with. Tokma, p. Nepal (Gostorg, 2 km upriver from the village).

"That was before he left the army before the revolution was about 17-18. Summer, at the meadow, before lunch, at 12 o'clock." The angular height of the sun at the time of observation 50 on , azimuth 120 on . "The weather is clear, windless. Was in the yard, mowing or rowing." Seems to have attracted the attention of his blows. Saw the body with sharp edges, form - the ball. Neither fire nor smoky tail was not. On the body can be viewed with the naked eye. Color of different parts of the body is the same. Point observations: azimuth 30 o , 25 height of the point of extinction: the azimuth of 110 o , height 25 on . The trajectory parallel to the horizon. The entire visible region of the trajectory lying to the left of the sun. Thermal sensations of the body was not. The shadows of the things not seen. Did not see the light flash, posts on the horizon - as well. Flight time - 10 seconds. Closer to the speed of the aircraft than a shooting star. Sounds: explosions, as the guns or even stronger, stronger than thunder in a thunderstorm. Had two strikes before the body and three - after the appearance. Recent attacks have been stronger. About moving sound source said: "A small stretch of the motion of the body." Sound effects were quickly 1-2 minutes. The earth trembled, that was in the house - do not know. People and animals do not fall. Smoky cloud in the fall did not notice. Bright nights after flying remembers. People were frightened at first. A year after his fall were asked two engineers with the parties - Kokaulin and Kul who went to the crash site a year after the disaster. About the Tunguska meteorite did not read and did not know.

Bright nights after flying remembers.

END OF DISCUSSION.

Eyewitness report from Vanavara itself: bright nights seen after June 30, 1908.


This is the original reference used for my earlier article.


http://books.google.ro/books?id=vMk4t21fOvoC&pg=PA146&dq=tunguska+siberia+glowing+clouds&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=q2JeUtryDaWq4ASZnIA4&ved=0CG0Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=tunguska%20siberia%20glowing%20clouds&f=false

PAGE 146

RESIDENTS OF SIBERIA WHO LIVED WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES (80 KILOMETERS) OF THE BLAST SITE REPORTED UNUSUAL GLOWING LIGHT FROM THE SKY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS AFTER THE EXPLOSION.


Eyewitness report from Vanavara itself: bright nights seen after June 30, 1908.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2013, 08:22:31 AM by sandokhan »

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37835
  • I have artificial intelligence
Re: sandokahn's gravity-effect-on-air theory
« Reply #209 on: October 17, 2013, 08:31:16 AM »
sandokhan, please watch the personal attacks.  Please watch you language.