I have a couple questions...

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I have a couple questions...
« on: October 26, 2006, 12:00:54 PM »
These may have been answered in other parts of the forum, I'm not sure. Is the theory of the earth being flat based on the fact that it simply appears flat to us, and since we don't seem to be moving, we are not?

I believe the earth is round, but I have a couple questions I kind of want clarified, stuff about the universe and how it is explained by this model. I deeply apologize if any of this sounds like criticism. People can believe what they believe, and criticizing it is stupid, their mind won't be changed.

1. I probably have not read up enough on the FE model, but the stuff I have said, is that the Moon and the Sun are the same size (explaining why they have the same angular size in the sky), and that they orbit x number of miles above the flat Earth. Now, do the other planets do this also? Again, I probably haven't researched this enough so I really don't know. Well okay ignore that, just read something. You say they are two-dimensional correct? What does this mean... From what I am understanding,  do you believe in the celestial model? Like, all of the other planets and stars are just dots at the top of it. Again, I may been just misinterpreting what I've read. Do the planets move? How do you explain the different positions in the sky, and can you explain retrograde motion? What are the moons that orbit the other planets?

2. As seen in this map: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1264&start=16

It appears the Sun (using terminology from the Ptolomeic geocentric model), is in a an epicyle, which at the same time orbits around above the earth in a deferent. You probably don't use these terms, I don't know. Why does the Sun move? And the Moon? If these are questions answered elsewhere I apologize, and don't answer them if that is the case.

3. Did Magellen not go around the earth from 1519-1522? I'm guessed this would also be explained by a conspiracy correct?

4. It is unknown what is under the earth according to the FE model. Does the earth have a core? Are there tectonic plates and molten rock deep under the earth? Or this is simply unknown regarding the FE model. Do you believe below the earth's crust it is hotter than above? Volcanoes obviously exemplifiy this.

5. What are shooting stars? Where do the meteors and asteroids come from that penetrate the earth's atmosphere. (Do you believe there is one?).

6. This I can probably answer. It's a weak point supporting earth's roundness, but when ships sail away, they disappear to the apparent curve of the earth. I am guessing this is explained by it's just getting farther and farther away correct?

7. Planes... flying from California to Japan for example. Explanation?

I'll stop for now... I have tons of questions. Again, I don't believe in the FE model, but I am really interested to see the stuff that explains everything above. Thanks so much if you answer... don't worry about it if it's too much.

Thanks :D

edit... sorry one more. How do you explain the phases of the Moon, and the phases of Venus?
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

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TheEngineer

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« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2006, 12:32:13 PM »
1. No, the other planets are not 2d.
2. The details of their movement are still under debate.
3. Circumnavigation is possible on the FE.  It is circular.
4. Yes, the FE has a core.  There are no tectonic plates deep in the molten part of the earth.  Obviously the stuff inside the earth is hotter than the crust on the outside.
5. They are objects that have gotten in our way as we travel through space.  Obviously there is an atmosphere.
6. In a manner of speaking, yes.
7. Again, the earth is circular.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
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I have a couple questions...
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2006, 03:11:13 PM »
Um I kind of want an FE explanation? Unless I'm just confused... Thanks though...
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

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James

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Re: I have a couple questions...
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2006, 03:52:35 PM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"

1. I probably have not read up enough on the FE model, but the stuff I have said, is that the Moon and the Sun are the same size (explaining why they have the same angular size in the sky), and that they orbit x number of miles above the flat Earth. Now, do the other planets do this also? Again, I probably haven't researched this enough so I really don't know. Well okay ignore that, just read something. You say they are two-dimensional correct? What does this mean... From what I am understanding,  do you believe in the celestial model? Like, all of the other planets and stars are just dots at the top of it. Again, I may been just misinterpreting what I've read. Do the planets move? How do you explain the different positions in the sky, and can you explain retrograde motion? What are the moons that orbit the other planets?


The Planets are much, much further than the Sun and Moon (and bigger). Like the Earth, they are "riding" on a constantly accelerating blanket of dark matter - the Universal Accelerator. Many probably have their own Suns and Moons (or equivalents). Their motion is as a result of actual movement on the UA. I don't know what retrograde motion is.

Quote from: "Jveritas8"

2. As seen in this map: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1264&start=16

It appears the Sun (using terminology from the Ptolomeic geocentric model), is in a an epicyle, which at the same time orbits around above the earth in a deferent. You probably don't use these terms, I don't know. Why does the Sun move? And the Moon? If these are questions answered elsewhere I apologize, and don't answer them if that is the case.


This is still under debate. I believe the Sun and Moon are both subject to the Earth's magnetic field (which suspends them) and the rotating core of the Earth, which governs their position.

Quote from: "Jveritas8"

3. Did Magellen not go around the earth from 1519-1522? I'm guessed this would also be explained by a conspiracy correct?


Look carefully at the Flat Earth maps. Circumnavigation is entirely possible, unless one is attempting to actually cross the "south pole".


Quote from: "Jveritas8"

4. It is unknown what is under the earth according to the FE model. Does the earth have a core? Are there tectonic plates and molten rock deep under the earth? Or this is simply unknown regarding the FE model. Do you believe below the earth's crust it is hotter than above? Volcanoes obviously exemplifiy this.


It is not unknown. Yes, the Earth clearly has a core and so on. Underneath the actual Earth, the FE concensus is that the Earth is resting, by interia, on a (possibly infinite) layer of invisible matter which constantly accelerates upwards at 9.8 m/s2, creating the illusion of gravity.

Quote from: "Jveritas8"

5. What are shooting stars? Where do the meteors and asteroids come from that penetrate the earth's atmosphere. (Do you believe there is one?).


They're probably conspiracy aircraft. Yes, there's an atmosphere, but there's nothing "in space" in the conventional sense, which would ever penetrate it.


Quote from: "Jveritas8"

6. This I can probably answer. It's a weak point supporting earth's roundness, but when ships sail away, they disappear to the apparent curve of the earth. I am guessing this is explained by it's just getting farther and farther away correct?


Spot on. We all know, and can see, the law of Natural Perspective. Objects going into the distance appear to get smaller (giving part of the illusion). There's a complimentary law which doesn't have a name, but can roughly be explained as "the further something away is, the more likely it is that fluctuations in whatever surface it's on will obscure the lower parts of it". A ship's hull will be obscured by waves before its mast.

Quote from: "Jveritas8"

7. Planes... flying from California to Japan for example. Explanation?


See 3.
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James

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I have a couple questions...
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2006, 03:54:05 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"

5. They are objects that have gotten in our way as we travel through space.  Obviously there is an atmosphere.


I hate to split hairs with other Flat Earthers, but when have we ever travelled through space?
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TheEngineer

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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2006, 03:59:00 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "TheEngineer"

5. They are objects that have gotten in our way as we travel through space.  Obviously there is an atmosphere.


I hate to split hairs with other Flat Earthers, but when have we ever travelled through space?

That is what the FE is doing as it accelerates.  Which is what I mean by traveling through space.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2006, 04:00:31 PM »
Thanks a lot.

(This is a RE explanation)

Retrograde motion is the opposite of prograde motion. Planets normally appear to move from East to West in the sky (due to earth's rotating West to East). When the planet Mars for example appears to move retrograde, it's because the earth orbits faster around the Sun then Mars does, the earth basically "lapped" Mars in it's orbit, so Mars it behind and to the side instead of in front. This creates the illusion that Mars is moving backwards, yet it's just the earth is going faster so it falls behind.

I mean I haven't really learned too many FE ideas about planets, so there's probably no explanation for it in the FE model.


edit- wow okay.

So the flat earth does in fact move through space, and we're accelerating?
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

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GeoGuy

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2006, 05:20:46 PM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"


edit- wow okay.

So the flat earth does in fact move through space, and we're accelerating?


Yep, that's why things fall when you drop them.

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2006, 05:39:52 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "Jveritas8"


edit- wow okay.

So the flat earth does in fact move through space, and we're accelerating?


Yep, that's why things fall when you drop them.


Gotcha.

So I'm guessing no one knows about retrograde motion...


Um, are we in a galaxy? What are we accelerating towards? In regular scientific theory our galaxy as a whole is accelerating towards the Andromeda Galaxy, and we'll collide in about two million years.

Is there a theory about how everything was formed? Because I'm guessing the Big Bang doesn't really support this.
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2006, 05:52:00 PM »
I could right a really long post about everything wrong with what dogplatter just said.  But I'm tired, so I will just adress a triviality in Jveritas8s post.

We have more then a few million years to wait for the Andromeda galaxy to colide with ours!

It's more like a few billion years from now!
"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
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I have a couple questions...
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2006, 05:56:46 PM »
OK, I take it back.  I do have enough energy to adress one thing dogplatter said, because it is so easily debunked.

"Shooting stars" as the public incorectlly insists on nameing them, are not "conspiracy airplanes" they are, infact, chunks of rock.  We know because they are ofter big enough to reach the ground, where metiorite hunters can find them.
"The earth looks flat; therefore it is flat."
-Flat Earthers

"Triangle ABC looks isosceles; therefore . . ."
-3rd grade geometry student

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GeoGuy

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2006, 06:21:15 PM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"


Gotcha.

So I'm guessing no one knows about retrograde motion...


How is it relevant to the UA theory of gravitation?

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2006, 07:26:06 PM »
Quote from: "GeoGuy"
Quote from: "Jveritas8"


edit- wow okay.

So the flat earth does in fact move through space, and we're accelerating?


Yep, that's why things fall when you drop them.


Why does FE take longer to catch up to some objects than others when they are dropped at the same time?
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GeoGuy

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2006, 07:28:43 PM »
Not counting air resistance, it doesn't, unless the two objects are dropped from different heights, in which case I think it should be fairly obvious.

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2006, 07:29:09 PM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"
Thanks a lot.

(This is a RE explanation)

Retrograde motion is the opposite of prograde motion. Planets normally appear to move from East to West in the sky (due to earth's rotating West to East). When the planet Mars for example appears to move retrograde, it's because the earth orbits faster around the Sun then Mars does, the earth basically "lapped" Mars in it's orbit, so Mars it behind and to the side instead of in front. This creates the illusion that Mars is moving backwards, yet it's just the earth is going faster so it falls behind.


Could someone explain this? I'm curious.
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TheEngineer

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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2006, 08:03:31 PM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Why does FE take longer to catch up to some objects than others when they are dropped at the same time?

Please tell me you are joking.  Oh, wait this is phaseshifter.


"I haven't been wrong since 1961, when I thought I made a mistake."
        -- Bob Hudson

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2006, 08:11:39 PM »
Quote from: "TheEngineer"
Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Why does FE take longer to catch up to some objects than others when they are dropped at the same time?

Please tell me you are joking.  Oh, wait this is phaseshifter.


Answer the question if it's so simple.
atttttttup was right when he said joseph bloom is right, The Engineer is a douchebag.

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GeoGuy

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2006, 08:13:49 PM »
Phaseshifter, you're not actually serious right? Right?

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beast

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I have a couple questions...
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2006, 08:14:41 PM »
Which objects are you talking about?

Like a piece of paper and a pen?

Or like a 5kg weight and 10 kg weight?

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Ferney

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2006, 09:11:03 PM »
sigh, phaseshifter.  I don't know where to begin.

Anyways, I have some questions regarding the FE model.

I read the FAQ and have some questions about the sun and the moon.  I understand that they are supposively spotlights that shine on the earth.  I read taht the moon supposively radiates cold light.  The idea of having cold light is preposterous.  Does someone care to explain?

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2006, 09:28:49 PM »
Quote from: "Ferney"
sigh, phaseshifter.  I don't know where to begin.

Anyways, I have some questions regarding the FE model.

I read the FAQ and have some questions about the sun and the moon.  I understand that they are supposively spotlights that shine on the earth.  I read taht the moon supposively radiates cold light.  The idea of having cold light is preposterous.  Does someone care to explain?


Nothing wrong with cold light; it's just that all the light bulbs that we use are inefficient (for example incandescent light bulbs radiate thermal energy in addition to producing light).

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_Mirror as well.

Note: I'm not completely sure about what I just posted; someone more well versed in physics could perhaps help...
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Erasmus

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I have a couple questions...
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2006, 11:12:24 PM »
Quote from: "phaseshifter"
Answer the question if it's so simple.


It isn't simple; it's what's called "loaded".  It means that by attempting to answer what the question asks, we will in fact be claiming something false.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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Erasmus

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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2006, 11:13:51 PM »
Btw, as to the retrograde/prograde issue... I just have to share this supercool Flash animation I found illustrating the Ptolemaic model: http://astro.unl.edu/naap/ssm/animations/ptolemaic.swf
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2006, 06:41:23 AM »
Yeah I figured you might say that. Planets in an epicycle, orbiting around in a larger deferent.

Again, I don't believe that to be true, but just wanted to know what you believed.
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.

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Erasmus

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« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2006, 10:57:40 AM »
Quote from: "Jveritas8"
Again, I don't believe that to be true, but just wanted to know what you believed.


Is that addressed to me?  I didn't make any statements about my beliefs anywhere in my recent posts.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

I have a couple questions...
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2006, 11:31:14 AM »
Sorry, I misinterpreted it. Never mind  8-)
he earth is a giant frisbee being thrown around the universe by George Bush and Zeus.