The Elephant in the room thats proves FE to be Nonsense.

If the earth is flat then how do explain why the sky in the southern hemisphere is different from the northern hemisphere?

If the earth is flat then all stars and constellations should be visible at all times at any point on the earths surface. But they are not. The night sky in the Arctic is totally different than the night sky in the Antarctic, why?

If the earth is flat plane then everybody any where on the earths surface should be able to see the North Star when they look up at night, why cant people in New Zealand see it?

Why cant i see the Plough constellation from Buenos Aires? or the North star?

why cant i see the Southern Cross from Iceland? or Centaurus?

If the earth is flat then we should all be able to see the same sky when we look up at night but we don't.

If i stand outside in England at 2 O'Clock in the morning in complete darkness, why then if i ring my friend in Australia is he sitting on the beach in the morning sun?

If the earth is flat and not curved as you say then how can it be sunny in one place and dark in another?

Do you have an explanation why they are different?

Welcome!

If you don't get many responses it's because you asked many questions in the same thread.  Asking one at a time works and there is a Q&A Board when asking questions.  If this one takes off you may see it moved to Q&A. 

Spend some time looking around the site and see if any of your questions/concerns have been addressed, as well.

If the earth is flat then how do explain why the sky in the southern hemisphere is different from the northern hemisphere?

If the earth is flat then all stars and constellations should be visible at all times at any point on the earths surface. But they are not. The night sky in the Arctic is totally different than the night sky in the Antarctic, why?

If the earth is flat plane then everybody any where on the earths surface should be able to see the North Star when they look up at night, why cant people in New Zealand see it?

Why cant i see the Plough constellation from Buenos Aires? or the North star?

why cant i see the Southern Cross from Iceland? or Centaurus?

If the earth is flat then we should all be able to see the same sky when we look up at night but we don't.

If i stand outside in England at 2 O'Clock in the morning in complete darkness, why then if i ring my friend in Australia is he sitting on the beach in the morning sun?

If the earth is flat and not curved as you say then how can it be sunny in one place and dark in another?

Do you have an explanation why they are different?

This has actually been asked a few times, so I'll answer before Thork gets angry at you.

Firstly, Welcome!

The most common answer I've seen is that it has to do with the opacity of the air. You can't see Polaris from Argentina because the light can't get through all that air. (This is the same reason it's not day everywhere at once).

The most common FE model has the stars in a giant plane rotating above the North Pole at an altitude of around 3000 miles (5,000 kilometers). Mathematically, this would mean that no star (or the sun) could get below about 12 degrees above the horizon, but this is ignored by the FE population.

As to this being an elephant in the room, there are quite a few. Stick around long enough and you'll see more.

Again, welcome to the forums!

Welcome!

If you don't get many responses it's because you asked many questions in the same thread.  Asking one at a time works and there is a Q&A Board when asking questions.  If this one takes off you may see it moved to Q&A. 

Spend some time looking around the site and see if any of your questions/concerns have been addressed, as well.

It's the same question with many points.
If you search for things like atmospheric density it will answer your question. Imagine the atmosphere like a foggy day but on a grand scale.

Quote from: gotham on August 28, 2013, 07:11:06 PM

Welcome!

If you don't get many responses it's because you asked many questions in the same thread.  Asking one at a time works and there is a Q&A Board when asking questions.  If this one takes off you may see it moved to Q&A. 

Spend some time looking around the site and see if any of your questions/concerns have been addressed, as well.

It's the same question with many points.
If you search for things like atmospheric density it will answer your question. Imagine the atmosphere like a foggy day but on a grand scale.

the biggest problem isnt the fact that it cant bee seen but whats seen in its place, If i stand in Buenos Aires and look up at the night sky i see a different sky than if i stand in Iceland and do the same...why?

Different sky, different stars, different constellations, a completely different section of space...why?

If the earth is flat then how do explain why the sky in the southern hemisphere is different from the northern hemisphere?

If the earth is flat then all stars and constellations should be visible at all times at any point on the earths surface. But they are not. The night sky in the Arctic is totally different than the night sky in the Antarctic, why?

If the earth is flat plane then everybody any where on the earths surface should be able to see the North Star when they look up at night, why cant people in New Zealand see it?

Why cant i see the Plough constellation from Buenos Aires? or the North star?

why cant i see the Southern Cross from Iceland? or Centaurus?

If the earth is flat then we should all be able to see the same sky when we look up at night but we don't.

If i stand outside in England at 2 O'Clock in the morning in complete darkness, why then if i ring my friend in Australia is he sitting on the beach in the morning sun?

If the earth is flat and not curved as you say then how can it be sunny in one place and dark in another?

Do you have an explanation why they are different?

The room is rather crowded with a lot of  elephants. 

Be careful not to EVER throw scientific logic at the FE society. They'll run and hide, plug their ears, and then they'll continue discussing their own delusional talking points as if your question was never asked.

Quote from: Kirtap on August 28, 2013, 05:01:50 PM

If the earth is flat then how do explain why the sky in the southern hemisphere is different from the northern hemisphere?

If the earth is flat then all stars and constellations should be visible at all times at any point on the earths surface. But they are not. The night sky in the Arctic is totally different than the night sky in the Antarctic, why?

If the earth is flat plane then everybody any where on the earths surface should be able to see the North Star when they look up at night, why cant people in New Zealand see it?

Why cant i see the Plough constellation from Buenos Aires? or the North star?

why cant i see the Southern Cross from Iceland? or Centaurus?

If the earth is flat then we should all be able to see the same sky when we look up at night but we don't.

If i stand outside in England at 2 O'Clock in the morning in complete darkness, why then if i ring my friend in Australia is he sitting on the beach in the morning sun?

If the earth is flat and not curved as you say then how can it be sunny in one place and dark in another?

Do you have an explanation why they are different?

This has actually been asked a few times, so I'll answer before Thork gets angry at you.

Firstly, Welcome!

The most common answer I've seen is that it has to do with the opacity of the air. You can't see Polaris from Argentina because the light can't get through all that air. (This is the same reason it's not day everywhere at once).

The most common FE model has the stars in a giant plane rotating above the North Pole at an altitude of around 3000 miles (5,000 kilometers). Mathematically, this would mean that no star (or the sun) could get below about 12 degrees above the horizon, but this is ignored by the FE population.

As to this being an elephant in the room, there are quite a few. Stick around long enough and you'll see more.

Again, welcome to the forums!

Also be careful that you don't post any data or exact figures  on measurements to the moon, the sun and the stars that disagree with the 3000 miles (FE).

Post one question at a time please.

Post one question at a time please.

Sorry, there are just too many elephants in the room. It's a bit crowded . 

Why not just go down the list and answer one question at a time ?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on August 31, 2013, 04:55:46 PM

Post one question at a time please.

Sorry, there are just too many elephants in the room. It's a bit crowded . 

Why not just go down the list and answer one question at a time ?

Lists get one sentence answers with no in-depth discussion or followups. Asking one question at a time is more conductive for a conversation.

My God I can't believe how many of my fellow flat earthers won't even answer your questions. Sorry if this is giving you the wrong impression. I am a flat earther and I'll gladly answer your questions. First of all, Welcome to FES!

If the earth is flat then how do explain why the sky in the southern hemisphere is different from the northern hemisphere?

If the earth is flat then all stars and constellations should be visible at all times at any point on the earths surface. But they are not. The night sky in the Arctic is totally different than the night sky in the Antarctic, why?

If the earth is flat plane then everybody any where on the earths surface should be able to see the North Star when they look up at night, why cant people in New Zealand see it?

Why cant i see the Plough constellation from Buenos Aires? or the North star?

why cant i see the Southern Cross from Iceland? or Centaurus?

If the earth is flat then we should all be able to see the same sky when we look up at night but we don't.

The Earth is too vast in order to see the entire sky, plus the atmosphere will block it out. Like squevil said, think of like a foggy day, but on a much larger scale

If i stand outside in England at 2 O'Clock in the morning in complete darkness, why then if i ring my friend in Australia is he sitting on the beach in the morning sun?

If the earth is flat and not curved as you say then how can it be sunny in one place and dark in another?

Do you have an explanation why they are different?

Being a flat earther, I believe the sun revolves around the earth, but it does not light up the whole earth. It lights approximately half the earth like in RET, but like all light it breaks down. Basically the sun acts like a spotlight, which also explains why the Earth looks round from space (but we can debate that in a different thread). Btw just to put it out there, I believe in a different flat earth map called the Wilmore model, which features Antarctica as a continent and not an icewall (a bi-pole map)

Be careful not to EVER throw scientific logic at the FE society. They'll run and hide, plug their ears, and then they'll continue discussing their own delusional talking points as if your question was never asked.

Sorry if your experience with other flat earthers caused this view. What I try to do is convert scientific fact into the flat earth thoery

Be careful not to EVER throw scientific logic at the FE society. They'll run and hide, plug their ears, and then they'll continue discussing their own delusional talking points as if your question was never asked.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59715.0.html#.UiKmrcu9KSM

Case and point.

Quote from: glennrrglenn on August 31, 2013, 04:39:33 PM

Be careful not to EVER throw scientific logic at the FE society. They'll run and hide, plug their ears, and then they'll continue discussing their own delusional talking points as if your question was never asked.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59715.0.html#.UiKmrcu9KSM

Case and point.

Ew. Apple

Ew. Apple

I know.  The only reason I have an iPad is because one of my college courses gave free ones to all the students.  Something of a perk for being in the honors course.  Most embarrassing part was that the first thing I did with my iPad was google how to turn off an iPad.  I had the right button but wasn't holding it long enough.  And for whatever compels me to, I use it for these boards, and I've mis-clicked MANY times.

The Earth is too vast in order to see the entire sky, plus the atmosphere will block it out. Like squevil said, think of like a foggy day, but on a much larger scale

No the earth is not too vast, when viewing a point of light in the night sky such as...say, Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away, a couple of thousand miles between two points on the earth's surface is miniscule, irrelevant. Your answer doesn't suffice.

Quote from: Excelsior John on August 31, 2013, 06:23:17 PM

The Earth is too vast in order to see the entire sky, plus the atmosphere will block it out. Like squevil said, think of like a foggy day, but on a much larger scale

No the earth is not too vast, when viewing a point of light in the night sky such as...say, Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away, a couple of thousand miles between two points on the earth's surface is miniscule, irrelevant. Your answer doesn't suffice.

Unfortunately FEers believe celestial objects are much closer to earth than scientists have calculated.  And some believe light bends upwards by its nature which is why we don't see far away objects.  I have an idea of how to pull off an experiment to disprove this though.

Unfortunately FEers believe celestial objects are much closer to earth than scientists have calculated.  And some believe light bends upwards by its nature which is why we don't see far away objects.  I have an idea of how to pull off an experiment to disprove this though.

I am a staunch advocate of a crystalline firmament and believe it is refraction through this dome that gives celestial light its 'bending' properties. I'm yet to come across a good experiment for ruling this out.

But they use it to explain why you can't see from point a to point b on earth.  The dome would be around earth, not in the middle of it.

Quote from: Kirtap on September 01, 2013, 12:43:11 PM

Quote from: Excelsior John on August 31, 2013, 06:23:17 PM

The Earth is too vast in order to see the entire sky, plus the atmosphere will block it out. Like squevil said, think of like a foggy day, but on a much larger scale

No the earth is not too vast, when viewing a point of light in the night sky such as...say, Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away, a couple of thousand miles between two points on the earth's surface is miniscule, irrelevant. Your answer doesn't suffice.

Unfortunately FEers believe celestial objects are much closer to earth than scientists have calculated.  And some believe light bends upwards by its nature which is why we don't see far away objects.  I have an idea of how to pull off an experiment to disprove this though.

What's your idea? I'm always looking for new tests.

Quote from: Excelsior John on August 31, 2013, 06:23:17 PM

The Earth is too vast in order to see the entire sky, plus the atmosphere will block it out. Like squevil said, think of like a foggy day, but on a much larger scale

No the earth is not too vast, when viewing a point of light in the night sky such as...say, Andromeda, which is 2.5 million light years away, a couple of thousand miles between two points on the earth's surface is miniscule, irrelevant. Your answer doesn't suffice.

True, but the vast majority of the space is empty. The light really only needs to pass through the atmosphere, which isn't all that thick.

My idea is to get a good, strong light source such as a spotlioght or high-powered flashlight, a long, level surface, maybe a drag strip or running track, and a wood or metal base that castand upright.  A a closer distance, shine the light on the board and trace the outline of the circle of light.  Then move the board back further and shine the light on it again.  Measure how much further the light is both above and below the circle.  If the light has extended an equal distance on all sides of the circle, then the light has not bent upwards.  If the light has extended further above the circle than below the circle, then the light has bent upwards. 

Just to clarify, the light source must be pointing parallel to the level surface and rhe board mist be perpendicular to it.

My idea is to get a good, strong light source such as a spotlioght or high-powered flashlight, a long, level surface, maybe a drag strip or running track, and a wood or metal base that castand upright.  A a closer distance, shine the light on the board and trace the outline of the circle of light.  Then move the board back further and shine the light on it again.  Measure how much further the light is both above and below the circle.  If the light has extended an equal distance on all sides of the circle, then the light has not bent upwards.  If the light has extended further above the circle than below the circle, then the light has bent upwards. 

Just to clarify, the light source must be pointing parallel to the level surface and rhe board mist be perpendicular to it.

How do you make sure the surface is perfectly level?

With a yardstick that includes a bubble level.  You could measure out checkpoints and check how level the surface is.  If it's consistently level, it should be safe to assume it's level throughout.   Or, depending on how accurate a gps device is (i'm not sure on this point) you could just verify level points where the light and board are and use the gps to check that they're the same altitude.  The gps would need to be accurate to the centimeter (the nearest hundredth of a meter) to be feasible though, and a gps may round to the nearest whole meter.

With a yardstick that includes a bubble level.  You could measure out checkpoints and check how level the surface is.  If it's consistently level, it should be safe to assume it's level throughout.   Or, depending on how accurate a gps device is (i'm not sure on this point) you could just verify level points where the light and board are and use the gps to check that they're the same altitude.  The gps would need to be accurate to the centimeter (the nearest hundredth of a meter) to be feasible though, and a gps may round to the nearest whole meter.

Speaking of a bubble level. How do you suppose that is supposed to work in a UA situation? I can't really imagine what might or might not be different.

Quote from: Alchemist21 on September 01, 2013, 10:37:06 PM

With a yardstick that includes a bubble level.  You could measure out checkpoints and check how level the surface is.  If it's consistently level, it should be safe to assume it's level throughout.   Or, depending on how accurate a gps device is (i'm not sure on this point) you could just verify level points where the light and board are and use the gps to check that they're the same altitude.  The gps would need to be accurate to the centimeter (the nearest hundredth of a meter) to be feasible though, and a gps may round to the nearest whole meter.

Speaking of a bubble level. How do you suppose that is supposed to work in a UA situation? I can't really imagine what might or might not be different.

The air is less dense than the water. Thus, the air ends up on top and the water on the bottom. It's really that simple.

As for the test, I'm still a bit uncertain. Bubble levels aren't particularly accurate, and we're talking about an alleged bend on the same scale as the alleged curvature of the Earth. The only tools I'm familiar with which are accurate enough to be certain the surface was level would be a laser level, which would of course be counter-productive.

As I was trying to sleep I realized another way to test the levelness, but it would be somewhat after the fact.  Just switch the positions of the light source and board and compare the results.  If the measurements are the same for both sides, you know the surface was level.

Yes I know that but it seems to me that in UA the spirit level doesn't have any way to know what the top is. The surface of the Earth is just going up. There isn't anything pulling the denser water more than the air.

This got me looking into how a home gravity heating system works.

In a gravity system a furnace is located in a basement and vents heat out of the floor of rooms above it. The lighter heat rises to the ceiling but then becomes cool/heavy and goes down a different vent on the floor and back down to the furnace to be heated again.

How can this happen in UA? UA is like gravity for most tests because like gravity objects of different densities and mass will fall at the same rate. However in this case air is different and would only seem to work under the influence of gravity. Or am I missing something?

UA is EXACTLY the same as gravity. You cant distinguish between the 2 and the sooner that sinks the better.

UA is EXACTLY the same as gravity. You cant distinguish between the 2 and the sooner that sinks the better.

Not exactly, UA wouldn't produce the results seen by Cavendish. Hence why they have to attack the experiment.

Yes I know that but it seems to me that in UA the spirit level doesn't have any way to know what the top is. The surface of the Earth is just going up. There isn't anything pulling the denser water more than the air.

This got me looking into how a home gravity heating system works.

In a gravity system a furnace is located in a basement and vents heat out of the floor of rooms above it. The lighter heat rises to the ceiling but then becomes cool/heavy and goes down a different vent on the floor and back down to the furnace to be heated again.

How can this happen in UA? UA is like gravity for most tests because like gravity objects of different densities and mass will fall at the same rate. However in this case air is different and would only seem to work under the influence of gravity. Or am I missing something?

It's inertia. Denser objects take more energy to accelerate. Therefore, they get pushed to the bottom.