Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?

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Chevalier

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Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« on: August 27, 2013, 06:49:38 AM »
As you may know, NASA is the main actor of the Conspiracy to make us believe the Earth is round.

And as you may know, the biggest rival of NASA was the Soviet Space Agency. These two guys even made a "race" for space and for the Moon.

Soviet Space Agency was a part of the bigger Soviet Union political system, which happened to be in ravalry with the western world.

So now how far do you think the NASA Conspiracy have gone? Was the Cold War a part of the Conspiracy created by the NASA?
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REphoenix

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 06:52:53 AM »
As you may know, NASA is the main actor of the Conspiracy to make us believe the Earth is round.

And as you may know, the biggest rival of NASA was the Soviet Space Agency. These two guys even made a "race" for space and for the Moon.

Soviet Space Agency was a part of the bigger Soviet Union political system, which happened to be in ravalry with the western world.

So now how far do you think the NASA Conspiracy have gone? Was the Cold War a part of the Conspiracy created by the NASA?

Now a war was part of the conspiracy? Come on, this is getting ridiculous.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 07:45:07 AM »
So why would have Soviet Space Agency faked space flights, satellites launchs and cosmonauts?

Since their boss (Soviet government) was at nearly open war against western world?
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REphoenix

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2013, 07:48:16 AM »
So why would have Soviet Space Agency faked space flights, satellites launchs and cosmonauts?

Since their boss (Soviet government) was at nearly open war against western world?

Exactly. So this leads us to the conclusion that maybe they aren't lying to us, space flight is real and the earth is round.
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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2013, 07:51:10 AM »
So why would have Soviet Space Agency faked space flights, satellites launchs and cosmonauts?

Since their boss (Soviet government) was at nearly open war against western world?

Exactly. So this leads us to the conclusion that maybe they aren't lying to us, space flight is real and the earth is round.
Well, so how this fact can be dismissed by FEers? I'm now curious on how FE explain space race and Soviet Union stuff.
And don't tell me it was for monies because in the end Soviet Union collapsed
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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2013, 08:01:39 AM »
Oh, good. A new topic. Oh wait, here's a five year old post:

Ok, I'm the Premier. The US has just said they're going to start sending men to the moon. I tell the head of the space program, "hey -- we can't let those nekulturny bastards beat us to space! Get to work."  I don't know how space travel works (or doesn't work as it were). The head of the space program, being very cunning says, "Well, sure, but it's going to cost a lot of rubles." So we give it to them and they use some of it and graft from the balance. Then they say, "We've had some technical problems. If we're going to beat the US we're going to need even more rubles. We don't want them to beat us do we?"  And I say, " Hooy na ny! Ty chyo, blya? Here's some more scratch -- I want results!" Incidentally, when the Soviets "delayed" too long and NASA beat them to the moon, the Premier pulled the plug financially. So they came up with new goals. Like SpaceLab/Mir, etc.  And the game continues as they fake progress and keep the balance... Now they're all working together on the ISS -- how convenient!

 I can hardly believe that one side or the other would admit they were incapable of what the other claimed to be doing. If one of them claimed to have time traveled to the future using a Captain Midnight decoder ring, the other would have too.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2013, 08:12:38 AM »
Oh, good. A new topic. Oh wait, here's a five year old post:

Ok, I'm the Premier. The US has just said they're going to start sending men to the moon. I tell the head of the space program, "hey -- we can't let those nekulturny bastards beat us to space! Get to work."  I don't know how space travel works (or doesn't work as it were). The head of the space program, being very cunning says, "Well, sure, but it's going to cost a lot of rubles." So we give it to them and they use some of it and graft from the balance. Then they say, "We've had some technical problems. If we're going to beat the US we're going to need even more rubles. We don't want them to beat us do we?"  And I say, " Hooy na ny! Ty chyo, blya? Here's some more scratch -- I want results!" Incidentally, when the Soviets "delayed" too long and NASA beat them to the moon, the Premier pulled the plug financially. So they came up with new goals. Like SpaceLab/Mir, etc.  And the game continues as they fake progress and keep the balance... Now they're all working together on the ISS -- how convenient!

 I can hardly believe that one side or the other would admit they were incapable of what the other claimed to be doing. If one of them claimed to have time traveled to the future using a Captain Midnight decoder ring, the other would have too.
How clever. So how do you explain that Soviet Union went bankrupt, and communist leaders lost their grip on the country?
Not to mention KGB would've know about a treachery from Soviet Space Agency. KGB was part of the Conspiracy too?
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John Davis

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2013, 08:17:31 AM »
Some, who place the start of a conspiracy closer to the start of the space program and the cold war, would say yes. The idea is that we faked the moon landing etc so we would appear to be ahead. When they realized their mistake to avoid punishment and for personal gain they kept the secret, and from there it expanded.

Its quite a common conspiracy, even hinted at (without flat earth connotations) in the recent Arrested Developments.
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2013, 08:35:55 AM »
Oh, good. A new topic. Oh wait, here's a five year old post:

Ok, I'm the Premier. The US has just said they're going to start sending men to the moon. I tell the head of the space program, "hey -- we can't let those nekulturny bastards beat us to space! Get to work."  I don't know how space travel works (or doesn't work as it were). The head of the space program, being very cunning says, "Well, sure, but it's going to cost a lot of rubles." So we give it to them and they use some of it and graft from the balance. Then they say, "We've had some technical problems. If we're going to beat the US we're going to need even more rubles. We don't want them to beat us do we?"  And I say, " Hooy na ny! Ty chyo, blya? Here's some more scratch -- I want results!" Incidentally, when the Soviets "delayed" too long and NASA beat them to the moon, the Premier pulled the plug financially. So they came up with new goals. Like SpaceLab/Mir, etc.  And the game continues as they fake progress and keep the balance... Now they're all working together on the ISS -- how convenient!

 I can hardly believe that one side or the other would admit they were incapable of what the other claimed to be doing. If one of them claimed to have time traveled to the future using a Captain Midnight decoder ring, the other would have too.
Or, once the SU claimed to start sending stuff into space, and as the US attempted to do so found that it was impossible, the US shows that it's impossible and thus the SU is faking it, thus defaming the communists and showing that they're willing to blatantly fake achievements to make themselves look better. Meanwhile the morally and technologically superior First World had figured out it was impossible and is now putting their money and energies elsewhere.

I mean, could you imagine that conversation with the President?

"Mr. President, after all these failures we've conclusively proven space travel is impossible--the Russians are faking!"
"Hmmm, this sounds like a golden opportunity to defame communism! Or, hey, nevermind. Let's go along with them and validate their claims by spending billions to make our own fake achievements!"

Sounds logical.

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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 08:50:37 AM »
Some, who place the start of a conspiracy closer to the start of the space program and the cold war, would say yes. The idea is that we faked the moon landing etc so we would appear to be ahead. When they realized their mistake to avoid punishment and for personal gain they kept the secret, and from there it expanded.

Its quite a common conspiracy, even hinted at (without flat earth connotations) in the recent Arrested Developments.
Thanks for the answer dear admin, but still I'm curious on how you keep a secret from a state police such of KGB.
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John Davis

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 09:00:20 AM »
Some, who place the start of a conspiracy closer to the start of the space program and the cold war, would say yes. The idea is that we faked the moon landing etc so we would appear to be ahead. When they realized their mistake to avoid punishment and for personal gain they kept the secret, and from there it expanded.

Its quite a common conspiracy, even hinted at (without flat earth connotations) in the recent Arrested Developments.
Thanks for the answer dear admin, but still I'm curious on how you keep a secret from a state police such of KGB.
Keeping secrets is one of the main businesses of the government. You lose the wrong secrets - people die.  The space organizations had almost complete control over the output of data at the time. Seems fairly simple even on that level. Many patriots would keep a secret even if they thought it was wrong for what they might see as the "Greater Good" or the greater good as explained to them. 
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Tausami

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 12:46:37 PM »
Oh, good. A new topic. Oh wait, here's a five year old post:

Ok, I'm the Premier. The US has just said they're going to start sending men to the moon. I tell the head of the space program, "hey -- we can't let those nekulturny bastards beat us to space! Get to work."  I don't know how space travel works (or doesn't work as it were). The head of the space program, being very cunning says, "Well, sure, but it's going to cost a lot of rubles." So we give it to them and they use some of it and graft from the balance. Then they say, "We've had some technical problems. If we're going to beat the US we're going to need even more rubles. We don't want them to beat us do we?"  And I say, " Hooy na ny! Ty chyo, blya? Here's some more scratch -- I want results!" Incidentally, when the Soviets "delayed" too long and NASA beat them to the moon, the Premier pulled the plug financially. So they came up with new goals. Like SpaceLab/Mir, etc.  And the game continues as they fake progress and keep the balance... Now they're all working together on the ISS -- how convenient!

 I can hardly believe that one side or the other would admit they were incapable of what the other claimed to be doing. If one of them claimed to have time traveled to the future using a Captain Midnight decoder ring, the other would have too.
Or, once the SU claimed to start sending stuff into space, and as the US attempted to do so found that it was impossible, the US shows that it's impossible and thus the SU is faking it, thus defaming the communists and showing that they're willing to blatantly fake achievements to make themselves look better. Meanwhile the morally and technologically superior First World had figured out it was impossible and is now putting their money and energies elsewhere.

I mean, could you imagine that conversation with the President?

"Mr. President, after all these failures we've conclusively proven space travel is impossible--the Russians are faking!"
"Hmmm, this sounds like a golden opportunity to defame communism! Or, hey, nevermind. Let's go along with them and validate their claims by spending billions to make our own fake achievements!"

Sounds logical.

Except that this isn't what happened. NASA didn't discover that it was impossible. That discovery, if it ever happened, came much later. They discovered that it was incredibly difficult and that there was no chance they were going to do it before the Russians, considering the latter's supposed advancements. They could have tried, but it would have been their word against the Russians. It wouldn't have been anything definite and that couldn't have proven anything.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 03:04:20 PM »
It could also be that The Soviet Union and The United States were working together the whole time.  The space race was a way to channel money without people asking too many questions.

The whole cold war act could have been just a way to keep the people of the world in fear.  Fearful people are easier to control and don't ask as many questions.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 05:52:12 PM »
The Cold War had to do with a lot more than just space.  I don't think it's plausible that it was all faked.

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markjo

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 06:11:50 PM »
I've seen all sorts of major historical event deniers, but I think that this is the only place that I've ever seen Cold War deniers.
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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 12:36:17 AM »
I've seen all sorts of major historical event deniers, but I think that this is the only place that I've ever seen Cold War deniers.
Why not? Fake Cold War would explain so much things
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sandokhan

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2013, 12:43:54 AM »
The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.




Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 01:39:31 AM »
The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.
Have you any evidence for any of this?
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

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Chevalier

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2013, 03:21:29 AM »
The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.
Have you any evidence for any of this?
It seems pretty obvious he was assassinated. Kroutchov made a heel-face turn on Stalin politics as soon as he went head of Soviet Union
Burden of proof for saying he wasn't assassinated lies on you, btw
"An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2013, 04:14:47 AM »
The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.
Have you any evidence for any of this?
It seems pretty obvious he was assassinated. Kroutchov made a heel-face turn on Stalin politics as soon as he went head of Soviet Union
Burden of proof for saying he wasn't assassinated lies on you, btw
I didn't say he wasn't assassinated, I asked if there was any evidence for the claim that the British secret service assassinated him. I haven't made any claim merely asked for Sandokhan to support his claims, if you don't understand the concept of "burden of proof" then please don't use it.
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2013, 04:33:24 AM »
The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.
Have you any evidence for any of this?
It seems pretty obvious he was assassinated. Kroutchov made a heel-face turn on Stalin politics as soon as he went head of Soviet Union
Burden of proof for saying he wasn't assassinated lies on you, btw
I didn't say he wasn't assassinated, I asked if there was any evidence for the claim that the British secret service assassinated him. I haven't made any claim merely asked for Sandokhan to support his claims, if you don't understand the concept of "burden of proof" then please don't use it.

I didn't make the claim, but I would imagine that if the British had him assassinated, they would not leave evidence behind.  The Brits may not have a lot of teeth between them, but they surely would have covered up their dirty deeds. 

Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2013, 04:44:58 AM »

I didn't make the claim, but I would imagine that if the British had him assassinated, they would not leave evidence behind.  The Brits may not have a lot of teeth between them, but they surely would have covered up their dirty deeds.
At least you prefaced that with "imagine" so you agree it's just a made up scenario?
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

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Son of Orospu

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2013, 04:48:14 AM »

I didn't make the claim, but I would imagine that if the British had him assassinated, they would not leave evidence behind.  The Brits may not have a lot of teeth between them, but they surely would have covered up their dirty deeds.
At least you prefaced that with "imagine" so you agree it's just a made up scenario?

"Imagine" does not equal "it's not true".  I said that if it is true, this is the way I would see it playing out. 

Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2013, 05:03:18 AM »

I didn't make the claim, but I would imagine that if the British had him assassinated, they would not leave evidence behind.  The Brits may not have a lot of teeth between them, but they surely would have covered up their dirty deeds.
At least you prefaced that with "imagine" so you agree it's just a made up scenario?

"Imagine" does not equal "it's not true".  I said that if it is true, this is the way I would see it playing out.
Where have I said it's not true? In the absence of any evidence though then all this is is a made up scenario. I imagine the following are far more likely :)
1: He died of natural causes
2: An internal faction worried about Stalins erratic behaviour and their safety had him assassinated.
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2013, 12:31:36 PM »
The "Cold War" was nothing more that a competition between neighbors for who had the biggest dog to protect their back yard. It was a "war" of claims. Of course it could have been entirely fake.

During World War II the British were claiming that they could set the sea on fire, while the US used inflatable tanks and planes to fool the Germans.

Even Benjamin Franklin is guilty of concocting hoaxes in war:

Quote
In 1782 a shocking letter was printed in the Supplement to the Boston Independent Chronicle. It alleged that Indian warriors were sending hundreds of American scalps as war trophies to British royalty and Members of Parliament. The scalps included those of women, as well as young girls and boys.

Soon the letter had crossed the Atlantic and began to circulate throughout Europe, where it shocked European public opinion. But in fact, the British had not received scalps from any Indians. The Supplement to the Boston Independent Chronicle was a fake newspaper which Benjamin Franklin had printed and distributed to his friends.

Franklin intended his hoax to aid the American war effort by turning European opinion against the British.

Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2013, 09:31:55 PM »
Not exactly. Depends on your point of view.

The Soviet Union was the world-plan, it was the system's investment, to rule the word.

Any half-thinking human would see the brutality and satanism in Bolshevist Russia and oppose it.

They couldn't stop it's criticism, it was too much and too obvious, and half of Europe attacked it, leaded by Germany.

The system managed to defame Germany as "evil nazis", and genocide them, but couldn't stop that half the civilized world still hate the Soviets.

So, "cold war" as popular hate and awareness of the threat of the Soviet Union was not wanted by the system at all.

In fact, the "cold war" (if possible Open War!) was wanted by the Nazis.

The Allies would have wanted a happy peaceful environment with more friendship with Russia.

But there were many Pattons, many would stated the obvious... "We invaded Europe, to save it... and we leave half of it to the Soviets?"

The System, the traitors usurping power in the West could only hold and control the rage to the level of "cold war", that is, rhetoric.

The Infiltration and Occupation of a country by foreign traitors (jews, masons, etc..) doesn't mean they will have absolute control.

They have to lie for years to push for a war, they have to simulate being Christians, being part of the folk, they can't just eliminate the army, the institutions, the traditions, the social system of a nation, they have to go slowly. It takes centuries.

The "fast track" for this international gangsters is to create a brutal army outside, like the Soviet Union, and betray the country they simulate to serve.
Then, they won't have to respect traditions, institutions like rule of law, private property, common decency and things like that.

The US wouldn't have been attacked, after the subjugation of Europe and Asia. They would have weakened it for decades.

Even after "loosing", the Nazis managed to get US troops on Western Europe, in frontier with the Soviets, they wouldn't dare attack them and therefore the US. So their plan of a worldwide URSS slavering all Europe and Asia was stopped. They were forced to go with the slow plan, demoralization and weakening of nations.

Russians were the chosen useful idiots, not Americans, always have been and will be.

America was an obvious key country to control, and so they did, but even so, they couldn't forbid guns, or the 1st Amendment.

Anti-Americanism is politically correct, insulting them as "dumb", but, for example, who was behind the flat earth movement? Brits and Americans.

Who is attacking Evolution and atheism? Americans and Muslims mostly.

There's a reason atheism, communism and drunkenness appear in Russia, there's a reason corruption, suicide and brutality are so common there.

So, my point, on an unconscious level, humanity was aware of the Russian/Soviet threat. The Powers that be managed to keep it controlled to the level of Cold War only.

In fact, the Nuke Hoax could have been invented just for this reason, to protect the Soviet Slavery Gulag System!

The Cold War was entirely faked.

After the assasination of Stalin by the British secret service at the end of February 1953 (Stalin was planning to attack Europe in the summer of 1953), the new rulers of the Soviet Union agreed to play the game until 1989.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 09:33:32 PM by drevko »

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sandokhan

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Rama Set

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2013, 09:02:39 AM »
You know what makes your theory really compelling? When the sources give wildly different accounts of the same facts.
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Tausami

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2013, 10:00:15 AM »
Oh God, he's left the Believers forum again. This should be interesting.

I would like to clarify that the vast, vast majority of FE'ers are not denying the Cold War. It's a thing that happened. Sandokhan also thinks that Gaddafi was a good guy who was victimized by the United States' super secret world controlling agency. And tsunamis are caused by great sea serpents. Not that he doesn't have a right to spread his ideas, I just want to clarify that he isn't speaking for the majority of us. He has his own personal, somewhat esoteric theories.

The Cold War, according to most Conspiracy theorizers (of which I am not one. The whole topic bores me, to be honest), was the birthplace of the Conspiracy. However, it was not itself part of the conspiracy.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Was Cold War a part of the Conspiracy?
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2013, 10:10:14 AM »
I believe that the "Cold War" existed, but that it was really a war of hoaxes. It should be noted that during the Cold War, Russia went around parading fake ICBMs for decades:

Moscow paraded dummy missiles

MANY OF the huge strategic missiles displayed in Red Square parades during the Soviet era were only dummies, but they scared the West into an expensive response, a Russian magazine reported yesterday.

One such fake, GR-1, an acronym for Global Missile, showed during a parade in 1965, prompted the United States to build an anti- missile defence system worth billions of dollars, said the weekly Vlast (Power). In fact, the Soviets had abandoned the GR-1 project long before the parade.

Another two mobile ballistic missiles shown in the same parade were also fakes, their test launches having been a failure, the magazine said. "Foreign military attaches were scared to death, triggering panic in Nato headquarters," it said. "A huge international uproar followed, and only those who prepared this demonstration knew they were dummies." One of the authors of the Vlast report worked as a missile engineer and said he had worked on a support system for one of the fake missiles to prevent it from bouncing on the stone-paved Red Square in Moscow. The magazine said the Soviet leader Nikita Krushchev first bluffed the West with the legend of powerful Russian missiles, saying the Soviet Union was making them "like sausage". "Such comparison sounded ambiguous for the Soviet people, because the sausage was in deficit, but it duly impressed foreigners," it said. At the time of Krushchev's comment, the Soviets had only four intercontinental ballistic missiles on duty, while the United States had 60. "The myth about the Soviet missile superiority was convenient for both the Soviet leadership and the American military industrial complex, which was getting huge contracts," the magazine said.


Another article on the subject:

http://www.cdi.org/russia/may1499.html#6

There's also a book about their fake ICBM programs: