Sceptimatics theory

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2013, 11:22:33 AM »
Quote from: SuperHater
Air is a fluid. Fluid pressure exerts a force equally in all directions against any surface its in contact with.
Imaging an ordinary kitchen table. If its surrounded by air, the air molecules will be exerting the same force against the underside of the table as they will be against the upper side of the table.
No they won't.
The weight of the table exerts it's weight, plus the weight of air pressure onto the floor. The floor resists the pressure, it does not push up, unless there is a force that makes it push up.

For instance:
If a man lays down holding weights, his arms are resisting those weights from crushing him and the floor under his body is resisting the weight of him and the weight, plus the air pressure above.
It's only resistance not push from below, unless by artificial means or by a low V high pressure wind scooping a person or object into the air.

But what causes everything to exert a force downwards. Everything including the man the table the weights and all the air molecules. Why does everything tend to move down towards the ground and never in any other direction.
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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2013, 11:36:39 AM »
Quote from: SuperHater
Air is a fluid. Fluid pressure exerts a force equally in all directions against any surface its in contact with.
Imaging an ordinary kitchen table. If its surrounded by air, the air molecules will be exerting the same force against the underside of the table as they will be against the upper side of the table.
No they won't.
The weight of the table exerts it's weight, plus the weight of air pressure onto the floor. The floor resists the pressure, it does not push up, unless there is a force that makes it push up.

For instance:
If a man lays down holding weights, his arms are resisting those weights from crushing him and the floor under his body is resisting the weight of him and the weight, plus the air pressure above.
It's only resistance not push from below, unless by artificial means or by a low V high pressure wind scooping a person or object into the air.

But what causes everything to exert a force downwards. Everything including the man the table the weights and all the air molecules. Why does everything tend to move down towards the ground and never in any other direction.
Density dictates it.
The densest element made up of more compressed matter is at the bottom of the solid dome or the bottom of the half orange in the centre. This is holding all of the pressure that built up by the stacked matter all the way to the top of the dome.

We are simply born to cope with the pressure in where we live, just as a fish is designed to cope with the pressures of where they swim in the seas, either shallow or deep, like we humans live at sea level and some above sea level.
It's just a big rainbow sandwich and we live in the middle of it.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2013, 11:46:24 AM »
But why do denser objects tend to be heavier than less dense ones?
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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2013, 11:55:22 AM »
But why do denser objects tend to be heavier than less dense ones?
More condensed particles.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2013, 11:59:50 AM »
What causes objects with more condensed particles to be attracted to the ground stronger than less condensed particles?
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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2013, 12:20:39 PM »
Of course there's pressure directly above it. What are you getting at here?

Air pressure pushing upwards.
Air pressure does not push upwards unless it's from artificial means, such as a bomb exploding or a high V low pressure wind.

So air pressure never pushes upwards? It never resists anything falling from above?
Yes it resists, always.
Every molecule is resisting the molecule above it.

So you agree air pressure pushes upwards under normal conditions. Glad we arrived at that conclusion.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2013, 12:25:13 PM »
What causes objects with more condensed particles to be attracted to the ground stronger than less condensed particles?
Look...I know where you're going with this and you are going to say, it's because of gravity.
What I can't understand is, why accept a force that clearly does not exists except as a word to describe the reason we stick to a spinning ball.
Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.
The up and down scenario can be explained like I told you. Our bodies sense up and down.
Gravity is just a con like all the rest of this space junk.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2013, 12:33:04 PM »

Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.

But it cant explain why denser objects are heaver than less dense objects.
Wich is basically why you where trying to explain with it in the first place.
Im a tractor

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2013, 12:38:58 PM »
What causes objects with more condensed particles to be attracted to the ground stronger than less condensed particles?
Look...I know where you're going with this and you are going to say, it's because of gravity.
What I can't understand is, why accept a force that clearly does not exists except as a word to describe the reason we stick to a spinning ball.
Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.
The up and down scenario can be explained like I told you. Our bodies sense up and down.
Gravity is just a con like all the rest of this space junk.

Except air pressure does not explain what happens on earth because A: Air is not sorted according to density of individual particles, B: The various Air molecules, like all other molecules, push in all directions against all other molecules. If the push of molecules dictated direction, the lower pressure above would cause the net push to be upwards, causing a rise, such as what happens with a ball underwater.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2013, 12:39:45 PM »

Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.

But it cant explain why denser objects are heaver than less dense objects.
Wich is basically why you where trying to explain with it in the first place.
I thought common sense would answer that question.
How does this fictional gravity work under an ice dome?

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2013, 12:40:23 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Im a tractor

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2013, 12:42:50 PM »

 I thought common sense would answer that question.
How does this fictional gravity work under an ice dome?

It might cause the ice dome to collapse under its own weight. Even by your own reasoning ice is denser than air so it should inevitably end up below it.
Im a tractor

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Shmeggley

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2013, 12:44:19 PM »
Let's look at your "Air pressure is gravity" idea. You say that pressure pushes us down. But pressure pushes in all directions, and actually pushes slightly upwards, as there is LESS pressure above, as there is overall less pressure above than below, so if pressure causes our vertical movement, we would all rise as air pressure pushed us upwards.
That'snot me who said that. That makes no sense at all.

How quickly you forget. Deleting your posts won't help you against this:

Quote from: Shmeggley
I agree that air pushes, but it seems to me that it would push on an object from every direction, but slightly more from underneath since air is thicker near the surface of the Earth and thinner the higher up you go. So how does it push things down again?
Air pressure underneath is more compressed, it has the most force on it.

So not only are you wrong about your theory, you're wrong about things you yourself have said in the past. Tsk.

Anyway, whether you said that or not, it's demonstrably true that air pressure is higher at the surface and decreases as you move up. Why would you even try to argue against this simple fact?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2013, 12:46:53 PM »
What causes objects with more condensed particles to be attracted to the ground stronger than less condensed particles?
Look...I know where you're going with this and you are going to say, it's because of gravity.
What I can't understand is, why accept a force that clearly does not exists except as a word to describe the reason we stick to a spinning ball.
Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.
The up and down scenario can be explained like I told you. Our bodies sense up and down.
Gravity is just a con like all the rest of this space junk.

Except air pressure does not explain what happens on earth because A: Air is not sorted according to density of individual particles, B: The various Air molecules, like all other molecules, push in all directions against all other molecules. If the push of molecules dictated direction, the lower pressure above would cause the net push to be upwards, causing a rise, such as what happens with a ball underwater.
Air is sorted according to density.
How can lower pressure cause a net push to be upwards?


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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2013, 12:48:21 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2013, 12:54:12 PM »

How can lower pressure cause a net push to be upwards?

You said yourself that atmospheric pressure decreases as you go up and it increases the closer you are to the ground.
If you go back to my example with the kitchen table. THe air underneath the table will have greater pressure than the air above it because it is closer to the ground. even if its just by the tiniest most minuscule amount. but because the the pressure is greater under the table if its going to push it anywhere it will be up.
But it doesn't because the force of gravity on the table is stronger than anything air pressure can do.
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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2013, 12:55:01 PM »

 I thought common sense would answer that question.
How does this fictional gravity work under an ice dome?

It might cause the ice dome to collapse under its own weight. Even by your own reasoning ice is denser than air so it should inevitably end up below it.
Cold dense air molecules at sea level freeze because they receive no heat and turn to heavy ice. The ice that makes up the dome is a skin of lighter ice and is held up by the expanse of all of the molecules under it as well as the dome structure which is naturally strong, it simply cannot fall but it can and does melt due to the reflected heat hitting it which creates icicles that do fall due to their weight but the friction as they do fall, turns them back to their gaseous state which then rises back to the top and re freezes when the reflected heat, we know as the sun, moves away from that point.

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REphoenix

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2013, 12:56:46 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

Weight is caused by gravity. You just used gravity to prove why gravity doesn't exist.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2013, 12:57:41 PM »
Let's look at your "Air pressure is gravity" idea. You say that pressure pushes us down. But pressure pushes in all directions, and actually pushes slightly upwards, as there is LESS pressure above, as there is overall less pressure above than below, so if pressure causes our vertical movement, we would all rise as air pressure pushed us upwards.
That'snot me who said that. That makes no sense at all.

How quickly you forget. Deleting your posts won't help you against this:

Quote from: Shmeggley
I agree that air pushes, but it seems to me that it would push on an object from every direction, but slightly more from underneath since air is thicker near the surface of the Earth and thinner the higher up you go. So how does it push things down again?
Air pressure underneath is more compressed, it has the most force on it.

So not only are you wrong about your theory, you're wrong about things you yourself have said in the past. Tsk.

Anyway, whether you said that or not, it's demonstrably true that air pressure is higher at the surface and decreases as you move up. Why would you even try to argue against this simple fact?
I said air pressure underneath has more force on it. Of course it's resisting and you could argue that it's pushing back but it's simply resisting the pressure from above because it's more compressed.
I don't need to get out of anything.

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rottingroom

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #79 on: August 16, 2013, 12:58:10 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

My, you just used the word weight. You do believe in gravity!


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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2013, 01:00:47 PM »

How can lower pressure cause a net push to be upwards?

You said yourself that atmospheric pressure decreases as you go up and it increases the closer you are to the ground.
If you go back to my example with the kitchen table. THe air underneath the table will have greater pressure than the air above it because it is closer to the ground. even if its just by the tiniest most minuscule amount. but because the the pressure is greater under the table if its going to push it anywhere it will be up.
But it doesn't because the force of gravity on the table is stronger than anything air pressure can do.
Of course the air under the table will have a greater pressure than above, so what.

It's at the higher pressure because there's more weight of pressure above it "pushing" down on it and it's being squashed and resisting that.
It's not pushing up, it's simply resisting the weight of the crush.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2013, 01:02:46 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

Weight is caused by gravity. You just used gravity to prove why gravity doesn't exist.
How can I use something that doesn't exist to prove that something doesn't exist?
I'm using air pressure against weight.
How do you get this fictional gravity inside an ice dome, which is my theory?

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sceptimatic

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2013, 01:04:42 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

My, you just used the word weight. You do believe in gravity!
Oh, so weight has to be gravity does it.

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REphoenix

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2013, 01:05:15 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

Weight is caused by gravity. You just used gravity to prove why gravity doesn't exist.
How can I use something that doesn't exist to prove that something doesn't exist?
I'm using air pressure against weight.
How do you get this fictional gravity inside an ice dome, which is my theory?

The definition of weight is the affect gravity has on an object. Gravity causes weight. Therefore you can't use weight as an argument against gravity.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2013, 01:06:30 PM »
Gravity is what causes weight. You haven't explained yet how air pressure can cause weight. Mabye when you do i might change my mind about gravity.
Im a tractor

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2013, 01:06:39 PM »
Hey, Scepti, if gravity is atmospheric pressure, then why do metal balls sink in water but foam ones float?

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rottingroom

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2013, 01:10:45 PM »
  why accept a force that clearly does not exists

But it does exist. Its what causes objects to fall towards the ground.
Weight against atmospheric pressure is what makes things fall to the ground, not a fictional force.

My, you just used the word weight. You do believe in gravity!
Oh, so weight has to be gravity does it.

Well, yes if you are going to use that word. Weight is a word that describes the effects of mass in a given amount of gravity. It is not interchangeable with the word mass.

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rottingroom

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Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2013, 01:18:22 PM »
fyi scepti:

weight = mass x gravity

on a grade school level:

your mass on earth = your mass on the moon

&

your weight on earth = 6 * your weight on the moon

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2013, 01:26:30 PM »
What causes objects with more condensed particles to be attracted to the ground stronger than less condensed particles?
Look...I know where you're going with this and you are going to say, it's because of gravity.
What I can't understand is, why accept a force that clearly does not exists except as a word to describe the reason we stick to a spinning ball.
Atmospheric pressure amply explains what happens on earth.
The up and down scenario can be explained like I told you. Our bodies sense up and down.
Gravity is just a con like all the rest of this space junk.

Except air pressure does not explain what happens on earth because A: Air is not sorted according to density of individual particles, B: The various Air molecules, like all other molecules, push in all directions against all other molecules. If the push of molecules dictated direction, the lower pressure above would cause the net push to be upwards, causing a rise, such as what happens with a ball underwater.
Air is sorted according to density.
How can lower pressure cause a net push to be upwards?

Air is comprised of Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon, Co2, Neon, Helium, and several other elements and compounds of different densities/ weights. These are not sorted into layers, but all mixed together.

A lower pressure causes a net upward push because the pressure pushes equally in all directions, but receives less push from where the pressure is lower, this causes a flow from high pressure to low pressure unless there is an outside force preventing it from doing so. As air pressure is lower the higher you go, the new flow and net push is upwards.

Re: Sceptimatics theory
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2013, 01:40:11 PM »
Hey, Scepti, if gravity is atmospheric pressure, then why do metal balls sink in water but foam ones float?

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Objects that are less dense than water will float.  It's not about gravity at all.  It's about the pressure of the water around the object which is technically it's atmosphere.