# Problem with supported FE map

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#### Megaman

• 176
• Winning all the forums
##### Problem with supported FE map
« on: August 14, 2013, 05:19:50 AM »
Dear everyone,

The following map can be found on the FES site:

Fervent supporters of FE endorse this map.

"Again, what map are you guys using? There are multiple proposed maps for FET. I support in the one where Antarctica exists as a continent, so you example is invalid."

-Tom Bishop

There is  glaring problem with this map. It can be seen if you consider the sun's path during the equinox in March. In order for the sun to move correctly over the map during this time it must effectively "warp" from the left side to the right.

FE maps 0 : Logic 1

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#### Alex Tomasovich

• 1030
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2013, 07:59:41 AM »
Dear everyone,

The following map can be found on the FES site:

Fervent supporters of FE endorse this map.

"Again, what map are you guys using? There are multiple proposed maps for FET. I support in the one where Antarctica exists as a continent, so you example is invalid."

-Tom Bishop

There is  glaring problem with this map. It can be seen if you consider the sun's path during the equinox in March. In order for the sun to move correctly over the map during this time it must effectively "warp" from the left side to the right.

FE maps 0 : Logic 1

It's something about gears and some giant Oompa Loompa pushing a button or something like that. Though this map would mean the day just before the equinox would be drastically different from the day after the equinox, as one would have the sun rising and setting far to the north, the other rising and setting far to the south.

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#### FETlolcakes

• 233
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2013, 11:05:51 PM »
I suppose you have to appreciate the ingenuity of FE's on this one - after all, how can RE's criticise/disprove/discredit/tear down an unseen, undrawn and (seemingly) an unknowable geography of a flat earth? It means they can always fall back on endless excuses when their crude maps are torn down eg. our map is not yet finalised, so your objections aren't valid

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#### REphoenix

• 984
• Round Earther
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 04:29:32 AM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

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#### iwanttobelieve

• 5442
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 06:29:53 AM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.

Like the sun, you circle the disc when you travel by plane on long flights.
Also, this map is the most correct, as it shows Antarctica not being an "ice wall"

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#### Shmeggley

• 1909
• Eppur si muove!
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 07:31:25 AM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.

Like the sun, you circle the disc when you travel by plane on long flights.
Also, this map is the most correct, as it shows Antarctica not being an "ice wall"

Tell that to Magellan. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/printouts/m/magellan.shtml

Look at the route he took, then look at the FE "bipolar" map. If you want us to believe that you can circumnavigate by going in a big circle, then we also need to believe that instead of going over the "edge" west of S. America, he instead turns North, cuts a wide circle around the North pole, then somehow ends up going west again to approach Asia from the East.

Magellan's expedition barely made it as it is, in fact he himself did'nt survive. If he had had to make this huge detour they would never have made it.

Of course, that's just one example of East-West circumnavigation that disproves this kind of map. It doesn't even make sense that you would go in a circle travelling along the equator. On the map it's a straight line.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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#### rottingroom

• 4785
• Around the world.
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 08:58:41 AM »
This map is insane. As a navy sailor having gone across the Pacific from San Diego toward Japan multiple times, imagining the route while looking at this map is hilarious.

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#### EarthIsASpaceship

• 1727
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2013, 06:33:28 PM »
I subscribe to the ROUND, flat Earth map with Antarctica around the perimeter.

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#### FETlolcakes

• 233
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2013, 08:59:44 PM »
I subscribe to the ROUND, flat Earth map with Antarctica around the perimeter.

Why has no one ever seen this ice wall?

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#### hewholikespie

• 249
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2013, 11:48:47 PM »
I subscribe to the ROUND, flat Earth map with Antarctica around the perimeter.

That map also doesn't work.

Honest question, how come no flat earthers use Antarctica as the center of the map and the North Pole as the edge?

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#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2013, 08:33:26 AM »
This map is insane. As a navy sailor having gone across the Pacific from San Diego toward Japan multiple times, imagining the route while looking at this map is hilarious.

Same here.

I'm sure if they are any other navy sailors on this forum, they would agree one hundred per cent with rottingroom's comments. Also all tourists who have ever taken a cruise to Japan from any port in California ...or any port on the West Coast ....would agree, too .  ROFLOL !

Seriously.:  The map is simply a Bi-Polar projection of a Globe. Repeat : A flat map presentation of a projection made from a Globe
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 05:38:28 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2013, 08:42:15 AM »
I subscribe to the ROUND, flat Earth map with Antarctica around the perimeter.

Why has no one ever seen this ice wall?

I think I've read something why no one has ever seen this ice walll is because they are prevented from seeing it  because of armed guards from NASA.

I've also seen FE posts of photos purported to be the ice wall. They were really photos of a portion of the Ross Ice Shelf at Antarctica.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2013, 08:45:51 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

#### Son of Orospu

• Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
• Planar Moderator
• 37834
• I have artificial intelligence
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2013, 05:29:11 PM »
People often see the Ice Wall.  They call it Antarctica.

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#### Alex Tomasovich

• 1030
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2013, 01:43:19 AM »
People often see the Ice Wall.  They call it Antarctica.

Which has been circumnavigated in around 12,000 miles. So unless the whole flat Earth is only 12,000 miles in circumference, Antarctica can't be the ice wall.

#### Excelsior John

• Ranters
• 2020
• Excelsior! Flat Earth FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2013, 07:41:14 AM »
Dear everyone,

The following map can be found on the FES site:

Fervent supporters of FE endorse this map.

"Again, what map are you guys using? There are multiple proposed maps for FET. I support in the one where Antarctica exists as a continent, so you example is invalid."

-Tom Bishop

There is  glaring problem with this map. It can be seen if you consider the sun's path during the equinox in March. In order for the sun to move correctly over the map during this time it must effectively "warp" from the left side to the right.

FE maps 0 : Logic 1

The sun doesn't "warp". It simply orbits the Earth and creates a spotlight over roughly half of the earth in a circular shape (giving the illusion of a round earth from space photos)
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#### 29silhouette

• 3334
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 09:15:21 AM »
The sun doesn't "warp". It simply orbits the Earth and creates a spotlight over roughly half of the earth in a circular shape (giving the illusion of a round earth from space photos)
Try drawing a circular path for the sun on that map and see what happens.

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#### rottingroom

• 4785
• Around the world.
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2013, 09:32:05 AM »
The sun doesn't "warp". It simply orbits the Earth and creates a spotlight over roughly half of the earth in a circular shape (giving the illusion of a round earth from space photos)
Try drawing a circular path for the sun on that map and see what happens.

tropical polar regions of course. Brilliant!

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#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2013, 05:32:08 PM »
People often see the Ice Wall.  They call it Antarctica.

But the "Ice Walls" around Antarctica are not continuous. They are portions of the coast of Antarctica such as the Ross Ice Shelf. Once again we get into Round Earth facts with evidence  and Flat Earth fiction with no evidence to back it up.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2013, 05:42:02 PM »
Dear everyone,

The following map can be found on the FES site:

Fervent supporters of FE endorse this map.

"Again, what map are you guys using? There are multiple proposed maps for FET. I support in the one where Antarctica exists as a continent, so you example is invalid."

-Tom Bishop

There is  glaring problem with this map. It can be seen if you consider the sun's path during the equinox in March. In order for the sun to move correctly over the map during this time it must effectively "warp" from the left side to the right.

FE maps 0 : Logic 1

The sun doesn't "warp". It simply orbits the Earth and creates a spotlight over roughly half of the earth in a circular shape (giving the illusion of a round earth from space photos)

I'm not sure about the term "warp" but I have heard FET that the sun "shifts gears" to change its orbit for winter and summer on different parts of the earth.

Your serve, FE. The ball is back in your court.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2013, 05:43:27 PM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.

There is a post somewhere on this forum where Tom Bishop says "There is no FE map."
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

#### Son of Orospu

• Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
• Planar Moderator
• 37834
• I have artificial intelligence
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #20 on: August 18, 2013, 08:20:22 PM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.

There is a post somewhere on this forum where Tom Bishop says "There is no FE map."

Don't misquote Dr. Bishop.  He said there is no official FE map.

People often see the Ice Wall.  They call it Antarctica.

But the "Ice Walls" around Antarctica are not continuous. They are portions of the coast of Antarctica such as the Ross Ice Shelf. Once again we get into Round Earth facts with evidence  and Flat Earth fiction with no evidence to back it up.

Ice is not a requirement for the wall.  It is the ground beneath the ice that hold back the water.  It just happens to mostly be covered in ice, which resembles a wall in many parts of it.

#### Rama Set

• 6877
• I am also an engineer
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #21 on: August 18, 2013, 08:28:05 PM »
How do I travel around the world on this one?

Also you would think that after existing this long FE's would have been able to come up with a map.

There is a post somewhere on this forum where Tom Bishop says "There is no FE map."

Don't misquote Dr. Bishop.  He said there is no official FE map.

There is no Flat Earth map.

He quoted him very faithfully.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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#### robintex

• Ranters
• 5322
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #22 on: August 18, 2013, 08:53:22 PM »
Re: Flight Times (Tom Bishop)
« Reply #20 on: 13-08-2013, 07:19:20 »Quote There is no Flat Earth map.

Could that mean simply that " There is no Flat Earth Map"  ?

The question then  is whether there is no official Flat Earth Map or whether there is no unofficial Flat Earth Map or whether there is no other type of Flat Earth Map ?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 09:03:07 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

#### Tom Bishop

• Flat Earth Believer
• 17874
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 06:36:18 AM »
The meaning behind my statement is that there is no official map. Of course there are maps which are flat.

As per traveling from California to Japan, that route is achieved by traveling "Westwards" on the compass. The magnetic field lines radiate outwards from the North Pole and as the navigator moves across the ocean the compass will adjust to point Northward, creating a new Western bearing, taking him in a large circle. Similar field lines radiate outwards from the South Pole, enabling circumnavigation in those latitudes.

Per the sun's path throughout the year, over the course of the year the sun moves North-South, as well as East-West. At its closest point to the North Pole it is over the Tropic of Cancer, and the Northern lands receive their longest days. As the sun recedes south and hits the equator it eventually gets caught up in the Southern Celestial system and "switches gears" at equinox.

The assertion that every part of the world receives 12 hour days at equinox is undemonstrated and assumed. The Equinox only represents the time of the year when the sun is about midway between the Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn to give relatively even days. When the sun goes into the Southern Hemiplane the days in the North begin to shorten, as the Sun gradually spirals down towards the Tropic of Capricorn.

This "bi-polar" model explains the Midnight Sun in Antarctica, as well as the Southern Celestial System. The model is suggested in the book The Sea-Earth Globe and and its Monstrous Hypothetical Motions (Zetetes, 1918), which explains the movement of the sun, celestial bodies, and some other features on page 30
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:07:18 AM by Tom Bishop »

#### Rama Set

• 6877
• I am also an engineer
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2013, 06:46:48 AM »
The meaning behind my statement is that there is no official map of the Flat Earth Society. Of course there are maps which are flat.

As per traveling from California to Japan, that route is achieved by traveling "Westwards" on the compass. The magnetic field lines radiate from the North Pole and as the navigator moves across the ocean the compass will adjust to point Northward, creating a new Western bearing, taking him in a large circle.

This works in the northern polar projection of a globe, but not in the "Antarctica as a continent" projection of a globe.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

#### Tom Bishop

• Flat Earth Believer
• 17874
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2013, 06:50:18 AM »
The meaning behind my statement is that there is no official map of the Flat Earth Society. Of course there are maps which are flat.

As per traveling from California to Japan, that route is achieved by traveling "Westwards" on the compass. The magnetic field lines radiate from the North Pole and as the navigator moves across the ocean the compass will adjust to point Northward, creating a new Western bearing, taking him in a large circle.

This works in the northern polar projection of a globe, but not in the "Antarctica as a continent" projection of a globe.

Why not? The compass just aligns with the magnetic field lines in a particular location. It wouldn't know which way True North or True South is.

If you hold a compass up near the southern end of a bar magnet, it will align with the field lines, causing 'North' to point out away from the Northern end of the compass.

This brings up the question of how someone from Australia can reach the North Pole or Northern countries by traveling North without getting lost in endless ocean. The answer to this is that magnetic field lines always form closed loops, as if they were completing a 'circuit'. Therefore there would never be a magnetic field line just traversing off into nothingness. They gradually loop around.

"Field lines come out of N poles and go into S poles, except within the magnet itself where the lines go from S to N. Magnetic field lines have no origination or destination points, but always form closed loops."

https://www.boundless.com/physics/magnetism/magnetism-and-magnetic-fields/magnetic-field-lines/

"Magnetic field lines are continuous and unbroken, forming closed loops. Magnetic field lines are defined to begin on the north pole of a magnet and terminate on the south pole."
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:08:13 AM by Tom Bishop »

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#### Pyrolizard

• 699
• The Militant Skeptic
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2013, 08:28:02 AM »
The meaning behind my statement is that there is no official map of the Flat Earth Society. Of course there are maps which are flat.

As per traveling from California to Japan, that route is achieved by traveling "Westwards" on the compass. The magnetic field lines radiate from the North Pole and as the navigator moves across the ocean the compass will adjust to point Northward, creating a new Western bearing, taking him in a large circle.

This works in the northern polar projection of a globe, but not in the "Antarctica as a continent" projection of a globe.

Why not? The compass just aligns with the magnetic field lines in a particular location. It wouldn't know which way True North or True South is.

If you hold a compass up near the southern end of a bar magnet, it will align with the field lines, causing 'North' to point out away from the Northern end of the compass.

This brings up the question of how someone from Australia can reach the North Pole or Northern countries by traveling North without getting lost in endless ocean. The answer to this is that magnetic field lines always form closed loops, as if they were completing a 'circuit'. Therefore there would never be a magnetic field line just traversing off into nothingness. They gradually loop around.

"Field lines come out of N poles and go into S poles, except within the magnet itself where the lines go from S to N. Magnetic field lines have no origination or destination points, but always form closed loops."

https://www.boundless.com/physics/magnetism/magnetism-and-magnetic-fields/magnetic-field-lines/

"Magnetic field lines are continuous and unbroken, forming closed loops. Magnetic field lines are defined to begin on the north pole of a magnet and terminate on the south pole."

Still ignoring how magnetic fields actually work, Tom?  Yes, they always form closed loops.  But often they start off moving away from either pole before the curve back around, go past the other pole, and curve back once again to meet it.  So yes, often enough magnetic fields would just fly off into nothing, with the effect being most pronounced in the vicinity of either pole.  I can get the diagram out again if you like.
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Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

#### Tom Bishop

• Flat Earth Believer
• 17874
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2013, 06:36:47 PM »
Still ignoring how magnetic fields actually work, Tom?  Yes, they always form closed loops.  But often they start off moving away from either pole before the curve back around, go past the other pole, and curve back once again to meet it.  So yes, often enough magnetic fields would just fly off into nothing, with the effect being most pronounced in the vicinity of either pole.  I can get the diagram out again if you like.

The problem you pointed out in the previous thread was that if you are directly below the South Pole and attempt to travel Northward, the 3D field lines might curve upwards on themselves overhead of the vessel, leaving the compass confused.

How many ships below the South Pole in Fiji are set their path to travel exactly North, though? Not many, I'd wager. Most will be traveling West, North West, East, or North East towards known landmasses, not out into open ocean.

But even if a vessel happened to venture out too far North from Fiji, it stands to reason that they would see their compass non-functional and decide to sail back towards the sun, either going back home, or perhaps sailing around until catching one of the stray NW or NE field lines which curves towards the North Pole. I doubt anyone would sail blindly into open waters without a working compass.

In all respects, the bi-polar model allows for navigation from almost all points on the map, except as you pointed out, when one wants to travel exactly North from below the South Pole, or when one wants to travel exactly South from above the North Pole. Unfortunately, it is an assumption that Fiji is directly South of the South Pole. As we do not have a confirmed map, for all we know there is just open ocean at that location. Perhaps Fiji is not directly centered beneath the South Pole as illustrated in the map but a little to the left or right. This would cause anyone traveling exactly Northward from that location to catch one of the field lines and curve around the world to the North Pole.

Hence, even if we did find a report of someone traveling exactly North from Fiji (unlikely), we do not even know where Fiji is in the model to say with confidence that the ship traveled exactly North from dead center beneath the South Pole.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 06:51:43 PM by Tom Bishop »

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#### Scintific Method

• 1448
• Trust, but verify.
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2013, 06:58:54 PM »
In all respects, the bi-polar model allows for navigation from almost all points on the map, except as you pointed out, when one wants to travel exactly North from below the South Pole, or when one wants to travel exactly South from above the North Pole.

Or if you want to fly non-stop between Australia and North America, say from Sydney to LA along the path used by most commercial airlines:

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"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

#### markjo

• Content Nazi
• The Elder Ones
• 42482
##### Re: Problem with supported FE map
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2013, 07:40:39 PM »
But even if a vessel happened to venture out too far North from Fiji, it stands to reason that they would see their compass non-functional and decide to sail back towards the sun, either going back home, or perhaps sailing around until catching one of the stray NW or NE field lines which curves towards the North Pole. I doubt anyone would sail blindly into open waters without a working compass.
What about those navigators who use celestial navigation instead of a compass?  Wouldn't they get confused when Crux is pointing north?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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