FE Logic?

  • 84 Replies
  • 10004 Views
?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2013, 03:32:50 PM »
When I asked my original question I actually was looking for an answer so could someone give me one please? And try to avoid derailing this thread.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2013, 02:04:01 PM »
One of the reasons that nobody takes you guys seriously is because you completely ignore most questions.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2013, 02:05:05 PM »
One of the reasons that nobody takes you guys seriously is because you completely ignore most questions.

Again, please don't bump your threads just because you don't receive a response as quickly as you would like.

Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2013, 02:09:02 PM »
One of the reasons that nobody takes you guys seriously is because you completely ignore most questions.

Again, please don't bump your threads just because you don't receive a response as quickly as you would like.

Considering some threads still haven't been answered after 7 years, I think it's safe to say that you guys really do completely ignore questions. Bumping threads is just a way to make sure it doesn't get buried under crap.

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2013, 02:13:52 PM »
One of the reasons that nobody takes you guys seriously is because you completely ignore most questions.

Again, please don't bump your threads just because you don't receive a response as quickly as you would like.

Considering some threads still haven't been answered after 7 years, I think it's safe to say that you guys really do completely ignore questions. Bumping threads is just a way to make sure it doesn't get buried under crap.

Some people may ignore questions, especially ones that have been asked a million times.  I have no problem with people following up on their posts, but doing so in less than 24 hours is a bit much and makes it less likely someone will answer at all.  However, this is not the place to discuss it.  If you have a concern, please post a thread in S&C or you can PM me or any other curator/mod to discuss further.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2013, 04:04:50 PM »
Well since you are here now would you like to answer my question?
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2013, 04:08:58 PM »
Well since you are here now would you like to answer my question?

Are you referring to the question in your OP?  If so, it seems it has been answered over the last few pages of discussion.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2013, 04:13:12 PM »
Well since you are here now would you like to answer my question?

Are you referring to the question in your OP?  If so, it seems it has been answered over the last few pages of discussion.

I seem to remember Tom arguing his perspective which is off topic and didn't answer the OP.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2013, 04:16:23 PM »
Well since you are here now would you like to answer my question?

Are you referring to the question in your OP?  If so, it seems it has been answered over the last few pages of discussion.

I seem to remember Tom arguing his perspective which is off topic and didn't answer the OP.

jroa answered your post with the first reply of the thread.  There is a difference between not getting an answer and not getting an answer you like.  You asked two questions in your OP.  I would be happy to try to answer one for you if you don't mind clarifying.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2013, 04:26:24 PM »
One of the FES favourite arguments is that when you look outside the earth looks flat and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
In other words: trust your eyes to tell you the truth.

When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon. I do not see perspective or bendy light. But when asked about sunsets the explanation is bendy light or weird perspective.
In other words: You can't trust what you see.

This is a complete contradiction and is flawed logic. Why can we only trust our eyes sometimes?
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17920
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #70 on: August 12, 2013, 04:28:23 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #71 on: August 12, 2013, 04:32:22 PM »
One of the FES favourite arguments is that when you look outside the earth looks flat and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
In other words: trust your eyes to tell you the truth.

When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon. I do not see perspective or bendy light. But when asked about sunsets the explanation is bendy light or weird perspective.
In other words: You can't trust what you see.

This is a complete contradiction and is flawed logic. Why can we only trust our eyes sometimes?

You should trust the observation you make.  What is it about a sun appearing to move below the horizon that would give you a definitive answer about anything, using nothing other than that observation? 

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #72 on: August 12, 2013, 04:33:10 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

Well, considering the fact that the sun doesn't ever touch the earth, we can assume that it moves below it and not into it.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #73 on: August 12, 2013, 04:35:13 PM »
You should trust the observation you make.  What is it about a sun appearing to move below the horizon that would give you a definitive answer about anything, using nothing other than that observation?

Apparently we can't even trust the observations we make, though:

Start by looking out your window, asshat.
I did. I saw Mt. Adams apparently 1 km shorter than it should have been. Unless Mt. Adams physically grows as I approach it, I deduced that its base was about 1 km lower than me due to the curvature of the Earth.
You are doing it wrong.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #74 on: August 12, 2013, 04:36:19 PM »
One of the FES favourite arguments is that when you look outside the earth looks flat and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
In other words: trust your eyes to tell you the truth.

When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon. I do not see perspective or bendy light. But when asked about sunsets the explanation is bendy light or weird perspective.
In other words: You can't trust what you see.

This is a complete contradiction and is flawed logic. Why can we only trust our eyes sometimes?

You should trust the observation you make. What is it about a sun appearing to move below the horizon that would give you a definitive answer about anything, using nothing other than that observation? 

Nothing. But that is not my question.

Then why do you believe the perspective and bendy light? You don't observe this. You see the sun moving below the horizon.
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

?

Megaman

  • 176
  • Winning all the forums
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #75 on: August 12, 2013, 04:41:34 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

That's weird 'cause it totally looks like half the sun is below the horizon.


« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 04:44:10 PM by Megaman »

*

Junker

  • 3925
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #76 on: August 12, 2013, 04:42:04 PM »
You should trust the observation you make.  What is it about a sun appearing to move below the horizon that would give you a definitive answer about anything, using nothing other than that observation?

Apparently we can't even trust the observations we make, though:

Start by looking out your window, asshat.
I did. I saw Mt. Adams apparently 1 km shorter than it should have been. Unless Mt. Adams physically grows as I approach it, I deduced that its base was about 1 km lower than me due to the curvature of the Earth.
You are doing it wrong.

Yeah... Which forum was that in? Lrn2FES


One of the FES favourite arguments is that when you look outside the earth looks flat and there is no reason to believe otherwise.
In other words: trust your eyes to tell you the truth.

When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon. I do not see perspective or bendy light. But when asked about sunsets the explanation is bendy light or weird perspective.
In other words: You can't trust what you see.

This is a complete contradiction and is flawed logic. Why can we only trust our eyes sometimes?

You should trust the observation you make. What is it about a sun appearing to move below the horizon that would give you a definitive answer about anything, using nothing other than that observation? 

Nothing. But that is not my question.

Then why do you believe the perspective and bendy light? You don't observe this. You see the sun moving below the horizon.

So the observation alone doesn't tell you anything. You make another observation, that the Earth appears to be flat. Now you have something to work with as far as why the sun appears as it does at sunset.  All using observations you have made.


*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17920
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #77 on: August 12, 2013, 04:43:10 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

Well, considering the fact that the sun doesn't ever touch the earth, we can assume that it moves below it and not into it.

A receding airplane can fly away from the observer and into the horizon, despite being in the air at all times. It's called perspective.

?

Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #78 on: August 12, 2013, 04:46:40 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

If we're going to argue semantics, I see the sun being obscured by the earth as it sets.

But, back on topic: the earth looks flat, so it is; the sun seems to be obscured by the earth as it sets, but it isn't. Both those statements are upheld by FE proponents, yet are contradictory in that one insists you must trust your eyes, but the other insists you cannot. Which is it?

BTW, here's the RE version of those two statements: the earth looks flat because it is so darn big, the curvature is hard to see; the sun seems to be obscured by the earth as it sets, because it is.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

Megaman

  • 176
  • Winning all the forums
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #79 on: August 12, 2013, 04:48:09 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

Well, considering the fact that the sun doesn't ever touch the earth, we can assume that it moves below it and not into it.

A receding airplane can fly away from the observer and into the horizon, despite being in the air at all times. It's called perspective.

The surface of a sphere can appear flat to an observer on its surface if the sphere is very very large compared to the observer.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17920
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #80 on: August 12, 2013, 04:51:25 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

If we're going to argue semantics, I see the sun being obscured by the earth as it sets.

But, back on topic: the earth looks flat, so it is; the sun seems to be obscured by the earth as it sets, but it isn't. Both those statements are upheld by FE proponents, yet are contradictory in that one insists you must trust your eyes, but the other insists you cannot. Which is it?

BTW, here's the RE version of those two statements: the earth looks flat because it is so darn big, the curvature is hard to see; the sun seems to be obscured by the earth as it sets, because it is.

The statement that we see the sun being obscured is incorrect. We see the sun going into the horizon. This is all we see of the matter.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #81 on: August 12, 2013, 04:57:05 PM »
When I watch a sunset I see the sun move below the horizon

That's funny. I've never seen the sun below the horizon. I have, however, seen the sun go into the horizon.

Well, considering the fact that the sun doesn't ever touch the earth, we can assume that it moves below it and not into it.

A receding airplane can fly away from the observer and into the horizon, despite being in the air at all times. It's called perspective.

Honestly Tom, have you ever seen an airplane near the horizon that wasn't preparing to land?  I haven't, and I've looked.  In my personal experience, the planes always become too small to see long before they get anywhere near the horizon.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #82 on: August 12, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »
If we're going to argue semantics, I see the sun being obscured by the earth as it sets.
The statement that we see the sun being obscured is incorrect. We see the sun going into the horizon. This is all we see of the matter.

So, by "going into the horizon" I take it you mean the sun visually merges with the horizon due to Rowbotham's 'perspective'? Okay, if that's the case, explain to me how a 32* mile diameter object can even be visually the same size as it was at midday, when it's at a point where it's 3000* mile altitude has been visually reduced to zero? It defies logic!

*Plug in any numbers you like here, it still doesn't make any sense.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 06:36:15 PM by Scintific Method »
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #83 on: August 12, 2013, 06:59:08 PM »
You (FEers) say that you think earth is flat because it looks flat, so you are basically stating that you should trust your eyes to tell you the truth about the world around you. But when you are asked about sunsets you claim that perspective and bendy light are making you see something happening that isn't actually happening. In other words, you say that you can't trust your eyes.

This kind of logic makes no sense to me. You basically just contradict yourselves to make your theory work. At one moment your eyes tell you the truth and at the next they don't?

Can a FEer please explain how this works in their mind?

In reference to "FE Logic ?" this was received in an e-mail from another source.:

Quote Without Comment:
"And, yes, I've not only heard of but heard from the flat-nutter-earthers.  I thought the young Earth creationists were bad enough expecting Bronze-Age scribblings to bear any resemblance to reality but these flat-earther folks are wholly and willfully ignorant.  It truly beggars belief and, in many ways, demonstrates an astonishing arrogance that these folks have no problem using the results of science (they have no problem exploiting quantum physics w/o which they could never post a web page) while simultaneously denying its conclusions about reality.  In my view, it's an infantile grasping at the perceived security of the misguided belief that humans are somehow the center and purpose of the Universe.  Pathetic, really."

Just for the record,these were not my words. Personally, I thought it was a bit extreme, but it seems to express the opinion of the majority in regard to the Flat Earth Society to some extent.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 07:16:15 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: FE Logic?
« Reply #84 on: August 26, 2013, 04:27:30 PM »
Be honest now. When you watch a sunset do you see:
a) The sun moving below the horizon
or
b) The sun moving away from you with bendy light and perspective
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.