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Summer/Winter

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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Summer/Winter
« on: July 15, 2013, 03:06:32 PM »
Beside my other post, about viewing distances, here is another thing that could only correspond with a spherical earth.

The fact that the days are longer in summer than in winter. If the earth was flat, the sun cannot possibly lit up the southern hemisphere as it does with the northern hemisphere. As usual, I will be looking forward to hearing an explanation.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:07:53 PM by Don Quichotte »
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 03:24:20 PM »
Quote from: Don Quichotte on July 15, 2013, 03:06:32 PM
Beside my other post, about viewing distances, here is another thing that could only correspond with a spherical earth.

The fact that the days are longer in summer than in winter. If the earth was flat, the sun cannot possibly lit up the southern hemisphere as it does with the northern hemisphere. As usual, I will be looking forward to hearing an explanation.

To pre-empt any "spiraling sun" theories that are no doubt about to flood this post, could I add a clarification?

About 10PM UTC finds both the Falkland Islands and the entirety of Australia lit up by the sun, as well as Nome, Alaska. In either FE model this is impossible to do without also lighting up areas that aren't in daylight.

So please, in response to this post, please provide diagrams as to how a spotlight could light up these three places without lighting up:

Africa, Europe, Western Asia, Quebec, Eastern Brazil, or the North Pole.
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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 03:32:55 PM »
Exactly Alex, if the southern hemisphere receives the most sunlight, with the southpole lit up 24/7, it is impossible for the northpole to remain dark. The only flat projection which could work in that case is that of a rectangular earth. However a rectangular flat earth would bring other issues. Such as that people cannot circle the earth. The only shape that could work is that of a spherical earth.

However, if there are people here who have a solid theory, the rest of us should know. I will await the explanations.
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 03:44:06 PM »
My experience with questions like this is that they are ignored completely. My question on the location of sunrises and sunsets (sparked by a months-old argument by Manarq) is still unanswered, as was Manarq's topic before me.

I guess simple observation and thinking things through aren't included in zeteticism.
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FlatOrange

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Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 03:58:41 PM »
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robintex

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Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 09:18:48 PM »
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 15, 2013, 03:44:06 PM
My experience with questions like this is that they are ignored completely. My question on the location of sunrises and sunsets (sparked by a months-old argument by Manarq) is still unanswered, as was Manarq's topic before me.

I guess simple observation and thinking things through aren't included in zeteticism.

My experience has been that most topics or questions go ignored, unanswered , denied and/or
had no resolution. It might be better just to leave this website strictly to the FE members to debate among themselves rather than the intervention of RE persons.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 09:22:04 PM by Googleotomy »
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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2013, 05:46:52 AM »
I guess I will be in for the same ride. Thanks for the links. Posts which go unanswered, while the people here claim to have the thruth to the real shape of the earth. What a joke.
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 06:24:51 AM »
Quote from: sceptimatic on July 16, 2013, 06:06:14 AM
Quote from: Don Quichotte on July 15, 2013, 03:06:32 PM
Beside my other post, about viewing distances, here is another thing that could only correspond with a spherical earth.

The fact that the days are longer in summer than in winter. If the earth was flat, the sun cannot possibly lit up the southern hemisphere as it does with the northern hemisphere. As usual, I will be looking forward to hearing an explanation.
What is a hemisphere?

Please stop trying to derail the post. You know very well what is meant by 'hemisphere'. If we have to say 'south of the equator' or even 'such that the north pole is on the other side of the equator from us' we'll be here all day.

Instead of arguing semantics, why don't you answer the question?
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iwanttobelieve

  • 5442
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 06:31:25 AM »
hemisphere, hemiplane. same thing.
just like anatarctica, continent.
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 10:39:00 AM »
These questions have been asked and answered for 150+ years. Try reading the material or searching the forums.
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 10:47:47 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 10:39:00 AM
These questions have been asked and answered for 150+ years. Try reading the material or searching the forums.

I've read the material, and searched the forums, and failed to find an answer. But since you have done so, and have found the answer, please do share it with us.

A simple diagram is all I need: please provide diagrams as to how a spotlight could light up the Falkland Islands, the entirety of Australia, and Nome, Alaska, without lighting up Africa, Europe, Western Asia, Quebec, Eastern Brazil, or the North Pole.
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 10:55:00 AM »
For that question you will first need to demonstrate that those locations are indeed lit simultaneously, without those other locations being lit.

I can give out a similar challenge, and ask you to explain why those locations are all lit up at once, if the earth is a globe. However this challenge is meaningless without a demonstration that my assertions are true.

Please show us how you know what is happening at those locations without being there.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:41:59 AM by Tom Bishop »
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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 11:06:52 AM »
Tom Bishop. I have seen the diagram of the flat earth theory.

In no possible way it can light up the southern hemisphere the way we observe.

Asking for a diagram to show it to be true on a spherical earth is a very simple question to be answered. I was hoping though that you could share your criticism on these diagrams. In my opinion these diagrams show at least a way in which the observable matches with that of the model.

Summer in southern hemisphere, winter in northern hemishpere


Vice versa


Again, I will be very much looking forward to your criticism and your explanation as what is wrong with these models and I will be looking forward to a diagram from the flat earth society in which the observable can be explained.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 11:09:44 AM by Don Quichotte »
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 11:42:08 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
For that question you will first need to demonstrate that those locations are indeed lit simultaneously, without those other locations being lit.

I can give out a similar challenge, and ask you to explain why those locations are all lit up at once, if the earth is a globe. However this challenge is meaningless without a demonstration that my assertions are true.

Please show us how you know what is happening at those locations without being there.
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 10:52:44 AM
For that questions you will first need to demonstrate that those locations are indeed lit simultaneously, without those other locations being lit.

I can give out a similar challenge, and ask you to explain why those locations are all lit up at once, if the earth is a globe. However this challenge is meaningless without a demonstration that my assertions are true.

Please show us how you know what is happening at those locations without being there.

Let me Google that for you...

Nome, Alaska: http://www.visitnomealaska.com/nome-web-cam.html
Sydney, Australia: http://www.earthcam.com/world/australia/sydney/
Stanely, Falkland Islands: http://www.webcams.horizon.co.fk/fullscreen_cam1.html

Berlin, Germany: http://www.kurfuerstendamm.de/en/berlin/webcam/
Moscow, Russia: http://www.earthcam.com/world/russia/moscow/
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil: http://www.earthcam.com/brazil/riodejaneiro/
Quebec, Canada: http://www.camscape.com/North%20America/Canada/Quebec/Saguenay-Bay-View-34973.php

If that's not enough, how about this: I've lived in Nome and the Falkland Islands during the same season, and can personally testify that they were illuminated by the sun at the same time UTC on 15 November.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 03:05:10 PM by Alex Tomasovich »
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neimoka

  • 738
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 12:10:06 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 11:42:08 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 10:55:00 AM
For that question you will first need to demonstrate that those locations are indeed lit simultaneously, without those other locations being lit.

I can give out a similar challenge, and ask you to explain why those locations are all lit up at once, if the earth is a globe. However this challenge is meaningless without a demonstration that my assertions are true.

Please show us how you know what is happening at those locations without being there.
Pointless evasion.

As has been pointed out to you before, these days people are able to communicate in real time over great distances, I for one have made long distance calls during which I have been informed of an occurring sunset/rise and have not thus far come across an event that would contradict the RE model. You are yourself free to perform the same to verify the data, to whatever extent you want.

Your explanation for how doppler radars are not in fact able to measure speed is much awaited for, if you would please.
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59139.msg1515765.html#msg1515765
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,57752.80.html#.UeWZ3CEW3RU
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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 12:17:57 PM »
Tom Bishop, I can account for it, as I have personally seen the lengthy days in the southern hemisphere and the short days in the northern hemisphere within about a day's time travel.

And in what fashion should it be demonstrated? Since all photographic or video evidence are disputed right away. Also, would you really sit down and watch to a day pass by on live webcam streams of places around the globe, just to verify it is true? Or would you take my word for it?

If it is no good to you either way, at least you should still consider the option for it to be true, since you have not validated nor debunked it. Again, I will be looking forward to your explanation which even rules out that possibility. Up untill now you have not been very talkative.
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 02:26:36 PM »
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
Let me Google that for you...

Nome, Alaska: http://www.visitnomealaska.com/nome-web-cam.html

I clicked on one of your links:



How am I supposed to tell whether it is dawn, noon, or dusk in this image?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:30:06 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 02:39:36 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
Let me Google that for you...

Nome, Alaska: http://www.visitnomealaska.com/nome-web-cam.html

I clicked on one of your links:




How am I supposed to tell whether it is dawn, noon, or dusk in this image?

You're supposed to be able to tell if it's lit by the Sun or not. Have you checked the other links? Sydney is lit, but near sunset or sunrise I can't tell. Rio de Janeiro is dark. Moscow is dark. Berlin (or somewhere in Germany) is dark. It's overcast but obviously daylight in Saguenay and Nome. What's the problem?

EDIT: Actually Saguenay is just a "preview" - if you click the link for the webcam source it's bright and sunny.

DOUBLE EDIT FOR EXTRA CREDIT: Nome's page actually shows the sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset times below the webcam shot!
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:44:19 PM by Shmeggley »
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Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 02:49:15 PM »
Quote from: Shmeggley on July 16, 2013, 02:39:36 PM
You're supposed to be able to tell if it's lit by the Sun or not. Have you checked the other links? Sydney is lit, but near sunset or sunrise I can't tell. Rio de Janeiro is dark. Moscow is dark. Berlin (or somewhere in Germany) is dark. It's overcast but obviously daylight in Saguenay and Nome. What's the problem?

EDIT: Actually Saguenay is just a "preview" - if you click the link for the webcam source it's bright and sunny.

DOUBLE EDIT FOR EXTRA CREDIT: Nome's page actually shows the sunrise/sunset and moonrise/moonset times below the webcam shot!

All that tells us is that it can be daylight in Saguenay, Nome, and Sydney at the same time in the Flat Earth model, while Rio de Janero, Moscow, and Berlin are in darkness.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 02:59:07 PM by Tom Bishop »
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 02:58:21 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
Let me Google that for you...

Nome, Alaska: http://www.visitnomealaska.com/nome-web-cam.html

I clicked on one of your links:



How am I supposed to tell whether it is dawn, noon, or dusk in this image?

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 02:26:36 PM
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
Let me Google that for you...

Nome, Alaska: http://www.visitnomealaska.com/nome-web-cam.html

I clicked on one of your links:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2v9atep.png

How am I supposed to tell whether it is dawn, noon, or dusk in this image?

Well, think. It's obviously rainy (hence the water on the camera), so clouds are in the sky. But it doesn't look like there's any artificial lights on there, so unless the moon is EXTREMELY BRIGHT, it has to be daytime in Nome.

My observations were of mid-November, and the best observation of this phenomena will be in late December.
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FlatOrange

  • 2458
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 03:26:46 PM »
One thread I kept up to date was "sunlight right now" and it challenged FErs to map how the spotlight worked or find an inconsistency in sunlight calculators.

Here's some samples from that thread.

translates to

Australia

South America


How it looks on a globe:

In case you forgot


Edit: notice all the timestamps
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 03:30:40 PM by FlatOrange »
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Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 03:52:28 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 16, 2013, 02:49:15 PM


Hmm, that's interesting... I'm pretty sure that Brisbane, Australia experiences more than 10 hours of daylight during the Southern winter, and it definitely experiences more than 10 hours at the time of year when the North Pole is in total, continuous darkness, so this circle of light that you show on this image can't be correct Tom.

BTW, I'd love to see what the sun's path is supposed to be for your bipolar map Tom! Particularly on the two solstices, and the equinoxes. Perhaps in a new thread though?
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...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."
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FlatOrange

  • 2458
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 03:55:15 PM »
Quote from: Scintific Method on July 16, 2013, 03:52:28 PM


BTW, I'd love to see what the sun's path is supposed to be for your bipolar map Tom! Particularly on the two solstices, and the equinoxes. Perhaps in a new thread though?

I know I'm not Tom but this has been covered.  Tom needs to focus on the things that haven't been covered.




Edit: Tom never addressed the FACT that cities in Australia and South America - as far away as possible on the most accepted of the FE maps - have daylight at the same time.  He left that thread never to speak again in it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 04:02:36 PM by FlatOrange »
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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM »
Quote from: FlatOrange on July 16, 2013, 03:55:15 PM
Quote from: Scintific Method on July 16, 2013, 03:52:28 PM


BTW, I'd love to see what the sun's path is supposed to be for your bipolar map Tom! Particularly on the two solstices, and the equinoxes. Perhaps in a new thread though?

I know I'm not Tom but this has been covered.  Tom needs to focus on the things that haven't been covered.




Who made that? It's.... mesmerizing....

Was there an explanation to go with it that explained this bizarre behaviour of the Sun and its "spotlight"?
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Quote from: sceptimatic on July 29, 2014, 06:00:17 AM
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FlatOrange

  • 2458
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 04:00:52 PM »
Quote from: Shmeggley on July 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM


Who made that? It's.... mesmerizing....

Was there an explanation to go with it that explained this bizarre behaviour of the Sun and its "spotlight"?

Aetheric winds.

No one on the board will discuss it.
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 04:06:46 PM »
Quote from: FlatOrange on July 16, 2013, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: Shmeggley on July 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM


Who made that? It's.... mesmerizing....

Was there an explanation to go with it that explained this bizarre behaviour of the Sun and its "spotlight"?

Aetheric winds.

No one on the board will discuss it.

Seems to be a common theme. Who knows, maybe Tom will come up with a better model come December, when he can personally verify where the sun is shining and where it's not.
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Don Quichotte

  • 253
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 04:07:07 PM »
Tom, I applaud your effort, but no. It is not a workable diagram. It does not agree to observations. In this diagram the southern hemisphere would receive the most sunlight, this would correspond with the summer, but the nortphole lights up as well. This is impossible, since it will be winter in the northern hemisphere and the north-pole is completely dark.

A smaller circle would not work either, because then you run in the issue that not all places receive sunlight at the same time.

For now I must still conclude that the only workable diagram I have seen is that of the spherical earth.
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FlatOrange

  • 2458
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 04:07:34 PM »
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 04:06:46 PM
Quote from: FlatOrange on July 16, 2013, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: Shmeggley on July 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM


Who made that? It's.... mesmerizing....

Was there an explanation to go with it that explained this bizarre behaviour of the Sun and its "spotlight"?

Aetheric winds.

No one on the board will discuss it.

Seems to be a common theme. Who knows, maybe Tom will come up with a better model come December, when he can personally verify where the sun is shining and where it's not.

Why? What is he doing in Decmeber? traveling?
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Alex Tomasovich

  • 1030
Re: Summer/Winter
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 04:12:53 PM »
Quote from: FlatOrange on July 16, 2013, 04:07:34 PM
Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 16, 2013, 04:06:46 PM
Quote from: FlatOrange on July 16, 2013, 04:00:52 PM
Quote from: Shmeggley on July 16, 2013, 03:58:45 PM


Who made that? It's.... mesmerizing....

Was there an explanation to go with it that explained this bizarre behaviour of the Sun and its "spotlight"?

Aetheric winds.

No one on the board will discuss it.

Seems to be a common theme. Who knows, maybe Tom will come up with a better model come December, when he can personally verify where the sun is shining and where it's not.

Why? What is he doing in Decmeber? traveling?

Well, December's when the FE models are most difficult to explain--when the southern hemisphere ('outside' the equator, if you will) receives the most sunlight. With ample live webcam footage, he should be able to verify if sunlight calculators are erroneous, and perhaps build a flat-earth model to explain the odd phenomena.
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