Properties of Light

If the sun rotates the earth in a circle above the equator, then according to the extremley obvious and basic laws of physics, the suns light should travel in a straight line in every direction, including every part of the earth.

It should always be day-time. 24/7.

Explain this... 

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

Quote from: jroa on July 12, 2013, 09:37:58 PM

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

We are talking about the sun here, not a flashlight. It's light cannot be stopped by some air. You are obviously not very intelligent.

Leave your ad hominem attacks out of the upper fora.  Also, I would suggest posting some proof to support your claim.

Quote from: jroa on July 12, 2013, 09:37:58 PM

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

We are talking about the sun here, not a flashlight. It's light cannot be stopped by some air. You are obviously not very intelligent.

Light is light, whether it comes from a flashlight or the sun.  A brighter light will go farther, but still can not go infinitely through the air.  The Sun's light can travel roughly half way across the Earth.

So the air is so thick that it can stop the suns light from going any further than half of the earth. But what about the Aether? Even though it is made out of Hydrogen and Helium and is extremley spread out across the universe, the light from stars quadrillions of miles away should also be stopped by this fog-Aether? Simply because we are talking about billions of light-years, there should be enough Aether to block out their light. Hydrogen and Helium do have mass and volume you know.

So the air is so thick that it can stop the suns light from going any further than half of the earth. But what about the Aether? Even though it is made out of Hydrogen and Helium and is extremley spread out across the universe, the light from stars quadrillions of miles away should also be stopped by this fog-Aether? Simply because we are talking about billions of light-years, there should be enough Aether to block out their light. Hydrogen and Helium do have mass and volume you know.

The stars are much closer in FET.  They are only a little farther than the Sun.

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

So, if light from the sun can be stopped by 100 kilometers of atmosphere^[1], then how come I can see Mt. Stuart from Mt. Adams (a distance of 150 kilometers)?<sup>[2]

[1] FE wiki says the stratosphere ends at 50 kilometers. Weather balloons indicate 0.1% sea-level pressure at those altitudes, indicating a vast majority (at least well over 90 percent) of the atmosphere is below that level. At an angle of 26 degrees [3], the light only travels through 100 kilometers of atmosphere.

[2] I have pictures, but can only upload URLs ... just ask and I'll post them.

[3] At an average setting distance of 10,000 kilometers away from the viewer (a quarter of the circumference of the equator--an average day being 12 hours long), the sun would be 'setting' while at 26 degrees above the horizon (if at the indicated altitude of about 5,000 kilometers).</sup>

JROA's post is inaccurate and misleading. If what he says were true, we would NOT see sunsets, we would see the sun slowly fading in the distance approximately 5-10 degrees above the horizon. Since the sun does not, in fact, fade with distance, you can pretty much dump his post in the waste bin.

Cheers.

Quote from: Boba Fett on July 12, 2013, 09:50:38 PM

Quote from: jroa on July 12, 2013, 09:37:58 PM

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

We are talking about the sun here, not a flashlight. It's light cannot be stopped by some air. You are obviously not very intelligent.

Light is light, whether it comes from a flashlight or the sun.  A brighter light will go farther, but still can not go infinitely through the air.  The Sun's light can travel roughly half way across the Earth.

I find it pretty funny that you say the sun light gets blocked from the air. So you said the stars are closer to us in FET but still behind the sun. The suns light witch is closer cannot travel through the air but the stars light witch is farther out then sun can magically make it through the air? Could I please see your math to how much did the light slow down? At witch distance from the sun it started to fade? Another thing is that earth it self emits light. So if the air was to thick for sun light to go through you would think weak earth light wouldn't make it through either?

Lets look at some light sources. First we got a light witch might be in your living room. Just a bulb sticking out the socket nothing covering it's sides. The ENTIRE room will light up, and lets say you have your door open, some light will escape the room into another room. So as you can see the light did travel farther out then my room. Second source would be a flashlight, witch acts as a spotlight(Witch is what FET describes the sun).

For proof that the earths air is not stopping the light, is simply by looking at the sky, if you see anything at all it means there is light(Night time we actually do see sun light, we see it hit the moon and we see the light from stars far away). If 0 amount of like was coming through then all you would see is pitch black. Light plays a role in what we can see and the colors we see. If the air was indeed to thick then night time would also look very foggy.

Another thing is lets compare glass and air. Light can go through glass witch is more dense then air, even the night time light form the stars make it through my windows.

Another thing that baffles me, is that FET thinks the stars and earth are closer? You even know what a star is? A star is a big burning ball of mostly hydrogen and helium. You ever been near a fire? It gets hot when you are near, as the fire burn temperature near it increase also(As long as it's still burning). So having the stars and sun closer to earth like in FET would create a major heat problem.

Quote from: jroa on July 12, 2013, 09:37:58 PM

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

So, if light from the sun can be stopped by 100 kilometers of atmosphere^[1], then how come I can see Mt. Stuart from Mt. Adams (a distance of 150 kilometers)?<sup>[2]

[1] FE wiki says the stratosphere ends at 50 kilometers. Weather balloons indicate 0.1% sea-level pressure at those altitudes, indicating a vast majority (at least well over 90 percent) of the atmosphere is below that level. At an angle of 26 degrees [3], the light only travels through 100 kilometers of atmosphere.

[2] I have pictures, but can only upload URLs ... just ask and I'll post them.

[3] At an average setting distance of 10,000 kilometers away from the viewer (a quarter of the circumference of the equator--an average day being 12 hours long), the sun would be 'setting' while at 26 degrees above the horizon (if at the indicated altitude of about 5,000 kilometers).</sup>

You are not thinking about angles.  When you look at the Sun from an angle, there is much more atmolayer than looking straight up.

JROA's post is inaccurate and misleading. If what he says were true, we would NOT see sunsets, we would see the sun slowly fading in the distance approximately 5-10 degrees above the horizon. Since the sun does not, in fact, fade with distance, you can pretty much dump his post in the waste bin.

Cheers.

Atmolayer + perspective = sunset.  You've heard it before, but refuse to believe it could be true.

I find it pretty funny that you say the sun light gets blocked from the air.

Are you saying that air does not block light?

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 12, 2013, 11:29:18 PM

^{[1] FE wiki says the stratosphere ends at 50 kilometers. Weather balloons indicate 0.1% sea-level pressure at those altitudes, indicating a vast majority (at least well over 90 percent) of the atmosphere is below that level. At an angle of 26 degrees [3], the light only travels through 100 kilometers of atmosphere.}

You are not thinking about angles.  When you look at the Sun from an angle, there is much more atmolayer than looking straight up.

Angles have been taken into account.

Atmolayer + perspective = sunset.  You've heard it before, but refuse to believe it could be true.

Because it's demonstrably false. Particularly the perspective part.

Are you saying that air does not block light?

You'd need a lot more than even 1000km of air to block a source as intense as the sun.

The light from the sun can not travel through all of the air to reach the other side of the Earth.  Sort of like how you see far away things start to get hazy and then disappear.  Air is not perfectly transparent.

Is the light from the sun only able to travel a fixed distance through the atmo(sphere/layer)? This would give the oft-quoted "circle of light" FE'ers talk about, but it does not agree with observed sunrise and sunset times anywhere on earth.

The sunlight is in the atmosphere so it's always going to be easily observable wherever the sun light lights up the portion of earth it's shining on.

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

Then that means that the atmosphere must extend at least 3000 miles high, because it has been conclusively proven by FE'ers that the sun is that high. 

The sunlight is in the atmosphere so it's always going to be easily observable wherever the sun light lights up the portion of earth it's shining on.

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

That's just a flat out lie, Sceptimatic, as I've already explained to you that light can and must travel through a vacuum. What do you think is between air particles, more air?

You are not thinking about angles.  When you look at the Sun from an angle, there is much more atmolayer than looking straight up.

The sun is visible at every angle above the horizon.  At no point does the sun fade from view while above the horizon.

Atmolayer + perspective = sunset.  You've heard it before, but refuse to believe it could be true.

Rowbothamic perpective is not mathematically supportable.  Standard mathematical perspective can't hide the sun in the Rowbothamic flat earth model without an upward bending of light.  Plus your original argument was that the atmolayer blocks the suns light from being visible at night because of its angle, when in fact the sun is visible at all angles above the horizon, from sunrise (0^o) to noon (0 to 90^o) to sunset (0^o again).

You are not thinking about angles.  When you look at the Sun from an angle, there is much more atmolayer than looking straight up.

Did you even read my post. I've absolutely considered angles. A right triangle with one side of 50 kilometers (the point beneath which the vast majority (at least 90%) of the atmosphere lies) and the angle opposite that side being 26.5 degrees (the angle at which the sun would be upon sunset) has a hypotenuse of just over 110 kilometers.

Thus, the light passes through 110 kilometers of atmosphere.

Once again, I ask politely that you read my posts prior to answering them.

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

Your own wiki says the very upper edges of the atmosphere (atmolayer, whatever) ends at about 500 kilometers. That same wiki says the sun is 5,000 kilometers above the Earth. So tell me, how can we see the sun at all if the sunlight cannot travel through the 4,500 kilometers of vacuum?

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 11:02:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 05:28:19 AM

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

Your own wiki says the very upper edges of the atmosphere (atmolayer, whatever) ends at about 500 kilometers. That same wiki says the sun is 5,000 kilometers above the Earth. So tell me, how can we see the sun at all if the sunlight cannot travel through the 4,500 kilometers of vacuum?

If the sun was in a vacuum, it wouldn't be a sun.
Nothing moves through a vacuum unless it grows into that vacuum, like earth and maybe billions/trillions, etc of other similar cells like ours.

You know that the space between molecules is a vacuum, right?  If nothing can move through a vacuum, then our molecules can't move, and air molecules can't move.  Then nothing can move.  You should appreciate the simplicity of that reasoning.

Quote from: Nolhekh on July 13, 2013, 11:52:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 11:20:38 AM

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 11:02:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 05:28:19 AM

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

Your own wiki says the very upper edges of the atmosphere (atmolayer, whatever) ends at about 500 kilometers. That same wiki says the sun is 5,000 kilometers above the Earth. So tell me, how can we see the sun at all if the sunlight cannot travel through the 4,500 kilometers of vacuum?

If the sun was in a vacuum, it wouldn't be a sun.
Nothing moves through a vacuum unless it grows into that vacuum, like earth and maybe billions/trillions, etc of other similar cells like ours.

You know that the space between molecules is a vacuum, right?  If nothing can move through a vacuum, then our molecules can't move, and air molecules can't move.  Then nothing can move.  You should appreciate the simplicity of that reasoning.

Have you ever blown bubbles as a kid? Think about it.

What does blowing bubbles have to do with the vacuum between air molecules? If there was no empty space (vacuum) between air molecules, then we wouldn't be able to move anywhere as everything around us would be completely solid. You know compressed air tanks? They have more molecules per cubic centimeter than exists in the normal air around us. This can only be possible if there was room to place these extra molecules.

Room for more molecules = empty space.

Even considering our air is made of solid, wall-to-wall molecules, what about #" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">vacuum chambers? As we remove air molecules, do the others swell up to take up the space left? If so, why does water boil at room temperature? So by removing air we're increasing the empty space between air molecules. But we can still see straight through this vacuum chamber!

Water doesn't boil at room temperature. You negated room temperature when you started evacuating the air, so any water inside the vacuum chamber is next to go and it expands ,causing friction which turns the water to vapour which is then evacuated.
[/quote]

So the thermometer I had in the cup was lying when it stayed resolutely at 21 C?

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich

So the thermometer I had in the cup was lying when it stayed resolutely at 21 C?

It was in the room temperature water, so, no it wasn't lying.
I said you negated room temperature inside the vacuum chamber of room temperature "air" not the room temperature water inside of the chamber, as obviously that will stay at the temperature it was.

So I again point out that the water was boiling at 21 C. But you're not answering the question: does this not show that there is empty space between air molecules? And if so, why can we see straight through a vacuum chamber?

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich

So the thermometer I had in the cup was lying when it stayed resolutely at 21 C?

It was in the room temperature water, so, no it wasn't lying.
I said you negated room temperature inside the vacuum chamber of room temperature "air" not the room temperature water inside of the chamber, as obviously that will stay at the temperature it was.

So I again point out that the water was boiling at 21 C. But you're not answering the question: does this not show that there is empty space between air molecules? And if so, why can we see straight through a vacuum chamber?

There is only empty space in a perfect vacuum. We cannot achieve that on earth. You can see through a vacuum chamber because there is air molecules inside of it, "expanded."

You can get densely compressed sponges out of a bottle but try and get the ones that are left inside of it after they expand.
See what I mean?

Okay, so everything we know about atomic physics is completely wrong! Makes sense. Thanks!

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 01:42:32 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 01:36:39 PM

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 01:28:49 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich

So the thermometer I had in the cup was lying when it stayed resolutely at 21 C?

It was in the room temperature water, so, no it wasn't lying.
I said you negated room temperature inside the vacuum chamber of room temperature "air" not the room temperature water inside of the chamber, as obviously that will stay at the temperature it was.

So I again point out that the water was boiling at 21 C. But you're not answering the question: does this not show that there is empty space between air molecules? And if so, why can we see straight through a vacuum chamber?

There is only empty space in a perfect vacuum. We cannot achieve that on earth. You can see through a vacuum chamber because there is air molecules inside of it, "expanded."

You can get densely compressed sponges out of a bottle but try and get the ones that are left inside of it after they expand.
See what I mean?

Okay, so everything we know about atomic physics is completely wrong! Makes sense. Thanks!

Basically, yes.

That is not a property of matter. Try again.

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 01:42:32 PM

Okay, so everything we know about atomic physics is completely wrong! Makes sense. Thanks!

Basically, yes.

Wow, this changes everything! What about solids? Like, when I put a block of metal in the vacuum chamber, why doesn't it swell up like a marshmallow to fill the space left behind by the air?

I don't even anymore.

For an actual opinion from actual FE'ers, check out the FAQ linked in my signature.

Quote from: Nolhekh on July 13, 2013, 11:52:23 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 11:20:38 AM

Quote from: Alex Tomasovich on July 13, 2013, 11:02:56 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 05:28:19 AM

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

Your own wiki says the very upper edges of the atmosphere (atmolayer, whatever) ends at about 500 kilometers. That same wiki says the sun is 5,000 kilometers above the Earth. So tell me, how can we see the sun at all if the sunlight cannot travel through the 4,500 kilometers of vacuum?

If the sun was in a vacuum, it wouldn't be a sun.
Nothing moves through a vacuum unless it grows into that vacuum, like earth and maybe billions/trillions, etc of other similar cells like ours.

You know that the space between molecules is a vacuum, right?  If nothing can move through a vacuum, then our molecules can't move, and air molecules can't move.  Then nothing can move.  You should appreciate the simplicity of that reasoning.

Have you ever blown bubbles as a kid? Think about it.

An odd question, as bubbles can't exist in a vacuum.  They'd burst because the air would be rushing into the vacuum, and continue through that vacuum. 

What prevents ordinary objects, such as rockets from moving in a vacuum.  There's no air to get in the way, so no resistance whatsoever to movement.

What prevents ordinary objects, such as rockets from moving in a vacuum.  There's no air to get in the way, so no resistance whatsoever to movement.

Because apparently accelerating hundreds of tons of fuel to about 4 km/s obviously doesn't take any kind of force, and thus cannot push the rocket forward.

Obviously.

(/sarcasm)

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 13, 2013, 09:33:18 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 05:28:19 AM

The sunlight is in the atmosphere so it's always going to be easily observable wherever the sun light lights up the portion of earth it's shining on.

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

That's just a flat out lie, Sceptimatic, as I've already explained to you that light can and must travel through a vacuum. What do you think is between air particles, more air?

Yes, among other things. There's certainly no vacuum on earth and nor can one be made.
Evacuation of molecules is obviously achievable, as we know.

So to you there is no empty space even between air molecules? How is a gas compressible then? And how would light even be able to propagate without being scattered completely, if it can't get between molecules?

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 11:17:00 AM

Quote from: Shmeggley on July 13, 2013, 09:33:18 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on July 13, 2013, 05:28:19 AM

The sunlight is in the atmosphere so it's always going to be easily observable wherever the sun light lights up the portion of earth it's shining on.

It certainly isn't shining from space, as light cannot move through a vacuum.

That's just a flat out lie, Sceptimatic, as I've already explained to you that light can and must travel through a vacuum. What do you think is between air particles, more air?

Yes, among other things. There's certainly no vacuum on earth and nor can one be made.
Evacuation of molecules is obviously achievable, as we know.

So to you there is no empty space even between air molecules? How is a gas compressible then? And how would light even be able to propagate without being scattered completely, if it can't get between molecules?

Before the Electron Cloud model, there was a model of atoms that had the protons pretty much being jam with the electrons as little bits of grape mixed in. Maybe he's thinking along those lines