Why is a round Earth so bad?

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Why is a round Earth so bad?
« on: June 21, 2013, 03:16:43 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.

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hoppy

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2013, 04:12:33 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.
Round earth is a lie, FE'ers prefer the truth.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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Shmeggley

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.
Round earth is a lie, FE'ers prefer the truth.

Awwwww maaaaan, did hoppy just explode your whole world view?

YES HE DID

(and here you thought flat earthers might make the slightest bit of sense)
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2013, 05:12:00 PM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Shmeggley

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2013, 05:17:04 PM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

And how do you think your observations would differ if the Earth was round?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2013, 05:22:07 PM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

And how do you think your observations would differ if the Earth was round?

I really don't know.  But considering I have no reason to think the Earth is round, I don't see the relevance.  How do you think my observations would differ if the Earth was shaped like a giant Philly soft pretzel?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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chuck22

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2013, 05:31:35 PM »
Because our children deserve to know true science.  Observable and provable.  It's the only way we can truly make progress.
"...let there be..."

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darknavyseal

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2013, 12:31:12 AM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

high five, that is a legitimate reason. Myself, I would believe in a flat earth according to my own observations, but I choose to believe what others have seen, and experimented on, what with space travel, and space stations, and such. If you don't cheers.

I, however, think flat earth creates more questions than it answers. But whatever.

Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2013, 12:43:51 AM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

And how do you think your observations would differ if the Earth was round?

I really don't know.  But considering I have no reason to think the Earth is round, I don't see the relevance.  How do you think my observations would differ if the Earth was shaped like a giant Philly soft pretzel?

You're precisely hinting at the fact that observing your local surroundings won't tell you much about the larger-scale shape of the Earth. So you can't tell the difference between living on a flat Earth or a globe Earth, or a muffin-shaped-one or whatever.

Yet you call "direct eye observation" of your surroundings conclusive evidence of a flat Earth...
If there's any other information you're using that tells you the Earth is flat, please tell me. Otherwise, you really can't say you know the Earth to be flat based only on local observation.

I do think that you have no reason to think the Earth is a globe simply because you don't want it to be.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 12:46:11 AM by icanbeanything »

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RyanTG

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 04:12:08 AM »
Believing in a flat earth is analogous to believing in creationism over evolution.

As Bill Nye puts it: "Your whole world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don't believe in evolution". You aren't going to get the right answers if you do not believe in a spherical earth as is seen by the erroneous attempts to calculate the distance of the Sun away from the Earth. They may come up with a distance of 3000km, but the measurements for the actual size, density, diameter, power output, luminosity and absorption spectra of the sun remain unchallenged.


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Puttah

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 05:15:16 AM »
I really don't know.  But considering I have no reason to think the Earth is round, I don't see the relevance.  How do you think my observations would differ if the Earth was shaped like a giant Philly soft pretzel?

Is the Philly soft pretzel shape of our Earth mainstream science's view? You have a million and one reasons to think the Earth is round, because those million and one reasons are pieces of evidence from mainstream science.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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Rama Set

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 05:43:15 AM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

And how do you think your observations would differ if the Earth was round?

I really don't know.  But considering I have no reason to think the Earth is round, I don't see the relevance.  How do you think my observations would differ if the Earth was shaped like a giant Philly soft pretzel?

If the Earth were pretzel shaped you would see different horizon effects depending on which portion of the pretzel you travelled. Along the length of a bread twist the horizon would be at eye level and objects would shrink in angular diameter until undetectable, but along the width of a twist the horizon would behave like a spherical Earth more or less. The horizon would be just below eye level and objects would disappear from the bottom up. There is one way it would differ, that is not observed as far as I know, so it's fairly safe to conclude that pretzel shaped is off the list.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2013, 10:35:37 AM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

high five, that is a legitimate reason. Myself, I would believe in a flat earth according to my own observations, but I choose to believe what others have seen, and experimented on, what with space travel, and space stations, and such. If you don't cheers.

If the Earth looks round from space, that's fine.  It certainly doesn't prove the Earth is round.

Quote
I, however, think flat earth creates more questions than it answers. But whatever.

At least, now, they are the right questions.

You're precisely hinting at the fact that observing your local surroundings won't tell you much about the larger-scale shape of the Earth. So you can't tell the difference between living on a flat Earth or a globe Earth, or a muffin-shaped-one or whatever.

Yet you call "direct eye observation" of your surroundings conclusive evidence of a flat Earth...

First, please don't put "direct eye observation" in quotes as if I ever used that phrase.  It is intellectually dishonest.

Now, then, obviously what we judge to be the conditions of the world around us has to be dependent on our senses.  Whether you'd like to face it or not, all of our knowledge is entirely dependent on what we are able to empirically observe.  Please take note of how often the theoretical aspects of RE Theory are rewritten to account for things we observe that don't fit with the a priori calculations.

Now, my own observations tell me the Earth is flat and stationary.  I don't think it's unreasonable to require extraordinary evidence that this is not the case.  I have yet to see such evidence.  Just a whole lot of conjecture and some pretty pictures from hundreds of miles away, mostly, none of which is conclusive evidence of anything.

Is the Philly soft pretzel shape of our Earth mainstream science's view? You have a million and one reasons to think the Earth is round, because those million and one reasons are pieces of evidence from mainstream science.

I feel no need to respond to a pure argumentum ad populum.  If you have something serious to add to the discussion please do so, otherwise don't waste our time.

If the Earth were pretzel shaped you would see different horizon effects depending on which portion of the pretzel you travelled. Along the length of a bread twist the horizon would be at eye level and objects would shrink in angular diameter until undetectable, but along the width of a twist the horizon would behave like a spherical Earth more or less. The horizon would be just below eye level and objects would disappear from the bottom up. There is one way it would differ, that is not observed as far as I know, so it's fairly safe to conclude that pretzel shaped is off the list.

Nice try.  But how could we possibly know where on the pretzel we are to see if such differences exist?  I also feel like you're making blind assumptions with no empirical evidence to back them up.  You REers love your higher dimensions; what if the twist is happening in one of those, so that you can't observe it?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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RyanTG

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2013, 11:22:55 AM »
I don't think it's unreasonable to require extraordinary evidence that this is not the case.  I have yet to see such evidence.  Just a whole lot of conjecture and some pretty pictures from hundreds of miles away, mostly, none of which is conclusive evidence of anything.

It is intellectually dishonest of you to claim you are yet to see evidence for a round earth when it has been demonstrated on this forum numerous times and no doubt over the entirety of the life time of this society.

The evidence is not conjecture, it is empirical evidence derived through the scientific endeavour of hundreds if not thousands of years of research.

To believe in a flat earth you must subscribe to multiple baseless and unsubstantiated conspiracy theories and completely flip your entire world view. All we know about the true dimensions of the sun, the planetary bodies, tides, evolution of the universe, evolution of our solar system, Coriolis effect,  geodetics, plate tectonics, gravity, satellites and Seismology to name a few are completely and utterly wrong.

As Richard Feynman said: "... the problem is, not what might be wrong but what might be substituted precisely in place of it".

And as is evident from the sparsity of information on the flat earth wiki, there is no absolutely no effort to try to substitute new ideas in place of those already demonstrated, as listed above.

Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2013, 11:57:11 AM »
Roundy, I meant the quote signs as emphasis, not to mean a direct quote from you. I use the quote function when I do direct quotes.

It is also intellectually dishonest to refer to something called RE Theory too, since no such theory exists. But I know what you meant, so...
Quote
Please take note of how often the theoretical aspects of RE Theory are rewritten to account for things we observe that don't fit with the a priori calculations.

Can you give me an example in the recent history? I'm not interested in the Greeks - Copernicus - Galilei differences, when science was not yet a thing, I mean in the last century at most.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 11:59:05 AM by icanbeanything »

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2013, 11:59:30 AM »
Roundy, I meant the quote signs as emphasis, not to mean a direct quote from you. I use the quote function when I do direct quotes.

It is also intellectually dishonest to refer to something called RE Theory too, since no such theory exists. But I know what you meant, so...
Quote
Please take note of how often the theoretical aspects of RE Theory are rewritten to account for things we observe that don't fit with the a priori calculations.

Can you give me an example in the recent history? I'm not interested in the Greeks - Copernicus - Galilei differences, when science was not yet a thing, I mean in the last century at most.

Dark energy.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2013, 12:04:29 PM »
Roundy, I meant the quote signs as emphasis, not to mean a direct quote from you. I use the quote function when I do direct quotes.

It is also intellectually dishonest to refer to something called RE Theory too, since no such theory exists. But I know what you meant, so...
Quote
Please take note of how often the theoretical aspects of RE Theory are rewritten to account for things we observe that don't fit with the a priori calculations.

Can you give me an example in the recent history? I'm not interested in the Greeks - Copernicus - Galilei differences, when science was not yet a thing, I mean in the last century at most.

Dark energy.

Has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth, which is what we are debating here.

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Rama Set

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2013, 02:50:38 PM »
Dark Energy and Dark Matter does not entail the re-writing of anything. They are a placeholder term (which will probably become the official name) for a gap in knowledge. Science will have to extend their knowledge to include it. This is neither novel nor dishonest, it's what you do when you discover this type of information (I have heard some scientists describe it as "Knowing what you don't know.")
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Puttah

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013, 08:31:48 PM »
I still hold that gravity is to dark energy as Newtonian mechanics is to the incomplete works of general relativity.

To claim that gravity is entirely wrong because it doesn't work at extreme scales is to similarly claim that newton's F=ma is wrong because it doesn't work near light speed.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 12:45:58 AM »
Guys, stop defending dark energy, it will just derail the thread.

Point is, dark energy has nothing to do with the Earth's shape, so it isn't part of whatever "RE Theory" supposedly means, so there's no point in discussing it here. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have talks about it too, but it's pointless here.

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markjo

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 11:00:40 AM »
I can think of no reason why a round Earth would be "bad", except in the sense that it doesn't accurately reflect the reality I observe every day of my life.

high five, that is a legitimate reason. Myself, I would believe in a flat earth according to my own observations, but I choose to believe what others have seen, and experimented on, what with space travel, and space stations, and such. If you don't cheers.

If the Earth looks round from space, that's fine.  It certainly doesn't prove the Earth is round.

Would it be equally safe to say that if the Earth looks flat from your window, that's fine but it certainly doesn't prove that the Earth is flat?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Rama Set

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 01:00:18 PM »

If the Earth looks round from space, that's fine.  It certainly doesn't prove the Earth is round.

Direct observation no longer qualifies as good evidence?  This smells of goalpost moving. Sig'd.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Shmeggley

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 01:56:20 PM »

If the Earth looks round from space, that's fine.  It certainly doesn't prove the Earth is round.

Direct observation no longer qualifies as good evidence?  This smells of goalpost moving. Sig'd.

I think he's alluding to the classic "it's round like a dinner plate/that's the edge of the spotlight, prove that it's not" respond we've all come to know and love.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Pongo

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 03:44:23 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.

It's not bad in any other sense than it being a lie.  A round-earth is a nice fantastical idea like Santa Clause or heaven, but when viewed under a lens of speculation and skepticism the myth's transparency is keen.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 03:56:00 PM »
Roundy, I meant the quote signs as emphasis, not to mean a direct quote from you. I use the quote function when I do direct quotes.

It is also intellectually dishonest to refer to something called RE Theory too, since no such theory exists. But I know what you meant, so...
Quote
Please take note of how often the theoretical aspects of RE Theory are rewritten to account for things we observe that don't fit with the a priori calculations.

Can you give me an example in the recent history? I'm not interested in the Greeks - Copernicus - Galilei differences, when science was not yet a thing, I mean in the last century at most.

Dark energy.

Has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth, which is what we are debating here.

It doesn't matter.  It is a part of RET.

I still hold that gravity is to dark energy as Newtonian mechanics is to the incomplete works of general relativity.

Exactly.

Would it be equally safe to say that if the Earth looks flat from your window, that's fine but it certainly doesn't prove that the Earth is flat?

Of course.

Direct observation no longer qualifies as good evidence?  This smells of goalpost moving. Sig'd.

I'm not moving anything.  This observation isn't as direct as my observation from right on the Earth's surface that it's flat.  Just seeing that the Earth appears to be spherical from high above is not strong enough to overturn my immediate conclusion that the Earth is flat.  Remember, I require extraordinary evidence.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Scintific Method

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2013, 04:04:21 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.

It's not bad in any other sense than it being a lie.  A round-earth is a nice fantastical idea like Santa Clause or heaven, but when viewed under a lens of speculation and skepticism the myth's transparency is keen.

So why is there so much evidence to support a round earth? I have even been able to gather independent (and quite conclusive) evidence myself, with basic equipment and simple methods not prone to error or bias.
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...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Pongo

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2013, 04:11:09 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.

It's not bad in any other sense than it being a lie.  A round-earth is a nice fantastical idea like Santa Clause or heaven, but when viewed under a lens of speculation and skepticism the myth's transparency is keen.

So why is there so much evidence to support a round earth? I have even been able to gather independent (and quite conclusive) evidence myself, with basic equipment and simple methods not prone to error or bias.

So why is there so much evidence to support Atlantis? I have been able to gather independent (and quite conclusive) evidence myself, with basic equipment and simply methods not prone to error or bias.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2013, 04:16:09 PM »
Well?

I have other thoughts and concerns about your philosophy, but I want to see how you answer this question before deciding to devote any more time here.

It's not bad in any other sense than it being a lie.  A round-earth is a nice fantastical idea like Santa Clause or heaven, but when viewed under a lens of speculation and skepticism the myth's transparency is keen.

So why is there so much evidence to support a round earth? I have even been able to gather independent (and quite conclusive) evidence myself, with basic equipment and simple methods not prone to error or bias.

So why is there so much evidence to support Atlantis? I have been able to gather independent (and quite conclusive) evidence myself, with basic equipment and simply methods not prone to error or bias.

Care to share? I've shared mine (in other threads). Or are you just going to make smart-arse comments and not back them up?
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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Pongo

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2013, 04:24:56 PM »
Care to share? I've shared mine (in other threads). Or are you just going to make smart-arse comments and not back them up?

The comment was designed to make you think.  I see it has failed.

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Scintific Method

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Re: Why is a round Earth so bad?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2013, 04:41:16 PM »
Care to share? I've shared mine (in other threads). Or are you just going to make smart-arse comments and not back them up?

The comment was designed to make you think.  I see it has failed.

I'll take that as a 'no' then.

If you were trying to say that evidence gathered by direct observation is equivalent to anecdotal evidence, you are sadly mistaken. If you were subtly trying to call me a liar, again you are incorrect.

The fact remains, actual evidence supporting a round earth is easy to gather. Evidence supporting a flat earth is limited to "it looks flat" (which proves nothing in itself, as has been pointed out many times, the earth is so large that we are unable to perceive curvature when standing on the surface of it), and the results of flawed and unscientific experiments.

Come back when you have something that constitutes actual proof. Like I said, I've already provided mine.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."