Free energy

Quote from: Amalgafiend on May 17, 2013, 12:07:08 PM

Quote from: Thork on May 14, 2013, 09:37:34 AM

There will never be free energy even if it was possible. As soon as anyone discovered how to do it, they'd patent it and license it out so that the end user still had to pay for it.

Thork, you are equivocating. 1) it would still be free energy, because the energy does not waste. 2) it would still be free energy, because it would be the service which would cost money, not the energy.

1) That kind of free energy does not exist because it busts the laws of thermodynamics.
2) As an end user it is not free and the people that control energy would never allow it to be.

I agree with 1 and 2.

Free speech, not free beer.

If a source of "free" energy were found, say harvesting and propagating cosmic radiowaves into free electrical energy on earth*, do you believe that your electric bill would be any cheaper? [not a chance!,!.[/b] As proof of this I will give you an example, people who receive all of there power from a hydroelectric dam should be paying substantially less than those receiving power from an oil fired power station or coal or nuclear, this is not the case! People who get power from wind turbines and dams pay the same as anyone else, even though in a practical, but not absolute sense get there power [gratis,[/i] basically free!
If a fusion reactor was put online tomorrow, you would still be paying through the nose for it! The power generation companies are cash hungry beasts and always will be so. Power generation is to precious to be run by profiteers, I believe power generation should be nationalised and put in the hands of the people, with no shareholders to feed billions of dollars to, infrastructure would be vastly improved and employment increased to keep it properly serviced. 

*[ I believe Tesla may have inadvertently or deliberately?done this]

If a source of "free" energy were found, say harvesting and propagating cosmic radiowaves into free electrical energy on earth*, do you believe that your electric bill would be any cheaper? [not a chance!,!.[/b] As proof of this I will give you an example, people who receive all of there power from a hydroelectric dam should be paying substantially less than those receiving power from an oil fired power station or coal or nuclear, this is not the case! People who get power from wind turbines and dams pay the same as anyone else, even though in a practical, but not absolute sense get there power [gratis,[/i] basically free!
If a fusion reactor was put online tomorrow, you would still be paying through the nose for it! The power generation companies are cash hungry beasts and always will be so. Power generation is to precious to be run by profiteers, I believe power generation should be nationalised and put in the hands of the people, with no shareholders to feed billions of dollars to, infrastructure would be vastly improved and employment increased to keep it properly serviced. 

*[ I believe Tesla may have inadvertently or deliberately?done this]

I don't know where you live, but my electricity is incredibly cheap. Also, electricity generation is nationalized (in America, at least). It is heavily subsidized, as is gasoline. It is one of the main reasons that we have some of the cheapest gasoline/electricity in the world.

Quote from: OMEGA MAN on July 06, 2013, 08:45:03 PM

If a source of "free" energy were found, say harvesting and propagating cosmic radiowaves into free electrical energy on earth*, do you believe that your electric bill would be any cheaper? [not a chance!,!.[/b] As proof of this I will give you an example, people who receive all of there power from a hydroelectric dam should be paying substantially less than those receiving power from an oil fired power station or coal or nuclear, this is not the case! People who get power from wind turbines and dams pay the same as anyone else, even though in a practical, but not absolute sense get there power [gratis,[/i] basically free!
If a fusion reactor was put online tomorrow, you would still be paying through the nose for it! The power generation companies are cash hungry beasts and always will be so. Power generation is to precious to be run by profiteers, I believe power generation should be nationalised and put in the hands of the people, with no shareholders to feed billions of dollars to, infrastructure would be vastly improved and employment increased to keep it properly serviced. 

*[ I believe Tesla may have inadvertently or deliberately?done this]

I don't know where you live, but my electricity is incredibly cheap. Also, electricity generation is nationalized (in America, at least). It is heavily subsidized, as is gasoline. It is one of the main reasons that we have some of the cheapest gasoline/electricity in the world.

One of the great blessings of the internet is that one is able to sort out bull shit from fact. Your comment is in the bull shit bucket. I looked up various sources including http://www.usa.gov/ website and a couple listed below. All of the power companies in the US are Investor Owned with share holders who eat all the profits. I know US gas prices are "cheap" when compared to the UK for instance, but  looked up US gas [petrol] prices, and it appears that you have the fastest growing prices in the world!!!

PS You have a reputation for posting absolute BS!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_electric_companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_utilities#Electricity_Companies

There is more to the cost of energy than the source. Maintenance, employee wages, transmission line rental.  All that costs money.

Then you must factor in total servicable population. If you can only provide power to 10,000 homes then you have to charge more than if you provide power to 100,000 homes, provided the other costs were the same.

Norway has this problem. To solve it they actually sell their electricity to Sweden, then buy it back.

There will never be free energy even if it was possible. As soon as anyone discovered how to do it, they'd patent it and license it out so that the end user still had to pay for it.

ITT: Thork yet again proves his total lack of understanding of the legal concepts he talks about.

One of the great blessings of the internet is that one is able to sort out bull shit from fact. Your comment is in the bull shit bucket. I looked up various sources including http://www.usa.gov/ website and a couple listed below. All of the power companies in the US are Investor Owned with share holders who eat all the profits. I know US gas prices are "cheap" when compared to the UK for instance, but  looked up US gas [petrol] prices, and it appears that you have the fastest growing prices in the world!!!

PS You have a reputation for posting absolute BS!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_electric_companies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_utilities#Electricity_Companies

One of the greatest things of the internet is that I can tell how stupid someone is by how well they can look up information. Turns out you aren't too bright. Unfortunately for you, I won't be doing your investigating for you. The knowledge is yours if you want it, but ultimately, since your opinion is irrelevant, I'm not going to waste my time trying to change it.

Quote from: Thork on May 14, 2013, 09:37:34 AM

There will never be free energy even if it was possible. As soon as anyone discovered how to do it, they'd patent it and license it out so that the end user still had to pay for it.

ITT: Thork yet again proves his total lack of understanding of the legal concepts he talks about.

Do you pay a water bill? No one makes water. But the people who own the plants and supply it to you then bill you for it.

Do you pay a water bill?

Irrelevant.

No one makes water.

Incorrect.

But the people who own the plants and supply it to you then bill you for it.

Irrelevant.

Well, it's not irrelevant. Water falls from the sky. And yet we have to pay for it.

If electricity was free, they'd still make us pay for it. And so it will never be free. I rest my case, Your honour.

Well, it's not irrelevant. Water falls from the sky. And yet we have to pay for it.

Incorrect.

If electricity was free, they'd still make us pay for it. And so it will never be free. I rest my case, Your honour.

I have not contested this claim. Perhaps you should try justifying the part of your post I did criticise instead of the part I didn't.

Who is this mysterious "they" that you keep referring to, Thork?

Who is this mysterious "they" that you keep referring to, Thork?

The Man

I'm both amused and frustrated at the amount of people on youtube who genuinely think they're they've found the one exception to thermodynamics. The proof being some shitty low rest video of a magnet wheel going round and round. Yeah, better throw away that Engineering degree, that's all I need.

The real funny bit is their insistence that the 'technology' is being suppressed by the man/energy companies/big oil/teh guvment etc but of course none of these evil overbearing entities has the balls to take down youtube videos.

My one request to them is very simple: If you can build a free energy overunity blah blah machine out of bits in your garage then just build 100 of the damn things and send them out to friends/family/universities/research institutes etc. Let people see them working forever and generating that alleged free energy. Should be simple enough....

I'm both amused and frustrated at the amount of people on youtube who genuinely think they're they've found the one exception to thermodynamics. The proof being some shitty low rest video of a magnet wheel going round and round. Yeah, better throw away that Engineering degree, that's all I need.

The real funny bit is their insistence that the 'technology' is being suppressed by the man/energy companies/big oil/teh guvment etc but of course none of these evil overbearing entities has the balls to take down youtube videos.

My one request to them is very simple: If you can build a free energy overunity blah blah machine out of bits in your garage then just build 100 of the damn things and send them out to friends/family/universities/research institutes etc. Let people see them working forever and generating that alleged free energy. Should be simple enough....

The problem isn't that these machines don't produce energy, it's that they produce a very small amount of electricity compared to the energy they get.
It's like a palm sterling engine.  Sure, place it on your hand and you can light a bulb but it requires the energy from your body.  And it's not viable on a large scale.

However, while there is no "free" (as in something from nothing) there are sources of energy that are free as in no additional costs are required to get it after purchasing the relevant equipment.  Waterwheels, windmills, and solar panels are three examples.

However, while there is no "free" (as in something from nothing) there are sources of energy that are free as in no additional costs are required to get it after purchasing the relevant equipment.  Waterwheels, windmills, and solar panels are three examples.

The problems with these examples is that you tend to not save the amount of money that you spend.  Otherwise, everyone would have these (well, maybe not waterwheels or windmills, for obvious reasons).

Quote from: Lorddave on July 07, 2013, 05:55:08 PM

However, while there is no "free" (as in something from nothing) there are sources of energy that are free as in no additional costs are required to get it after purchasing the relevant equipment.  Waterwheels, windmills, and solar panels are three examples.

The problems with these examples is that you tend to not save the amount of money that you spend.  Otherwise, everyone would have these (well, maybe not waterwheels or windmills, for obvious reasons).

Not really. Solar does save money but it takes 5-7 years depending on your usual energy cost per kwh.
The reason most don't have them is because of the large upfront cost.