Would the US have been better if it lost the Civil War?

I see all this hatred and anger towards the "other side" and it makes me wonder if that's just the product of how we live or if it's because half the country is too different from the other half to coexist peacefully in the same country?

Thoughts?

I see all this hatred and anger towards the "other side" and it makes me wonder if that's just the product of how we live or if it's because half the country is too different from the other half to coexist peacefully in the same country?

Thoughts?

Better as in how? You need to be more specific than "If the Union lost the Civil War, would the US would be more good?"

Wat?

Are you suggesting that if the US had lost the war things would somehow be better? Also, the two halves of the country have been coexisting peacefully for decades. Or are there some border skirmishes I haven't heard about?

Quote from: Lorddave on May 27, 2013, 10:20:24 AM

I see all this hatred and anger towards the "other side" and it makes me wonder if that's just the product of how we live or if it's because half the country is too different from the other half to coexist peacefully in the same country?

Thoughts?

Better as in how? You need to be more specific than "If the Union lost the Civil War, would the US would be more good?"

Less political fighting, more cooperation between members of opposing political parties, and less hatred by the people for their political opposites.

Wat?

Are you suggesting that if the US had lost the war things would somehow be better? Also, the two halves of the country have been coexisting peacefully for decades. Or are there some border skirmishes I haven't heard about?

I'm suggesting that we wouldn't have so much hatred between the two political parties since they would likely morph into Left vs Semi-right and in the South Right vs Semi-Left.
Whereas now we have "Right vs Left"

Not only that but the United States is big.  It has almost every type of land area except jungle.  It's diverse.  I fear it's so large and so diverse that it's like the Roman Empire: We're trying to keep people, who live so differently, together under one set of laws and it's causing a massive amount of friction.

How do the people live so differently? I've lived in the south, I've lived right in the middle, I've lived out west.  It's all pretty much the same. Most states have rural areas and urban areas. All the states have their fair share of religious nuts, right wing nuts, and lefties, they all have moderates. 

Our political parties were once more central, not that long ago. It's really only in the last decade that the right has gone off the rails.  The Civil War didn't have anything to do with it.

Yes. At least that way all 50 states wouldn't be dragged down by an idiotic federal government. Also, it would be easier to run and manage.

How do the people live so differently? I've lived in the south, I've lived right in the middle, I've lived out west.  It's all pretty much the same. Most states have rural areas and urban areas. All the states have their fair share of religious nuts, right wing nuts, and lefties, they all have moderates. 

Population density, agricultural vs industrial, cultural mixing, region specific problems.  Plus, the various regions have different majorities on religion, gun control, abortion, labor laws, role of the government, etc...

Our political parties were once more central, not that long ago. It's really only in the last decade that the right has gone off the rails.  The Civil War didn't have anything to do with it.

I'd like to believe that.  I really would.


Also, the idea of the civil war isn't the issue so much as it was the first and only time we had a chance to become two countries instead of one.
Perhaps a more accurate title would be: Should the US split up?

Most every state has densely populated areas, industrial areas, and agricultural areas, and the vast majority of Americans are Christian.  All the views you list exist in every state in this country, the religious nuts and the antiabortionists are everywhere, the gun nuts are everywhere. Would you deport  the people who don't agree with you to the other country?  You're just listing a bunch of stuff, but I doubt you've really looked into it.  You haven't even listed one region specific problem. Surely if the problem is bad enough to make you want to split up the country you can name it?

Shit, just look at Ronald Reagan. He's the Republican hero, but he was much more moderate than most Republicans today.

My answer to your new question is no, unless you can come up with some real ideas about how we'd all be better off.

The South will rise again.

I agree with SCG. Everything Lorddave has said so far is a non issue. No, the US shouldn't split up. Isolating people into ideological echo chambers is a good way to break a system where you elect your leaders.

Would Canada be better is Quebec succeeded?

I'll be honest, I made this thread mostly because I was tired of all the bitching and fighting. Some days it feels like half the country hates the other half.

Politics in the US is completely corrupted. I think we all feel a bit helpless and sick of it. The wealthy have all the lobbyists pushing their agendas, and our elected officials (who should be the lobbyists for the people) are bought and paid for.

Quote from: Space Cowgirl on May 27, 2013, 12:33:13 PM

How do the people live so differently? I've lived in the south, I've lived right in the middle, I've lived out west.  It's all pretty much the same. Most states have rural areas and urban areas. All the states have their fair share of religious nuts, right wing nuts, and lefties, they all have moderates. 

Population density, agricultural vs industrial, cultural mixing, region specific problems.  Plus, the various regions have different majorities on religion, gun control, abortion, labor laws, role of the government, etc...

Quote

Our political parties were once more central, not that long ago. It's really only in the last decade that the right has gone off the rails.  The Civil War didn't have anything to do with it.

I'd like to believe that.  I really would.


Also, the idea of the civil war isn't the issue so much as it was the first and only time we had a chance to become two countries instead of one.
Perhaps a more accurate title would be: Should the US split up?

Lol I didn't realize it was still the 1800's. Your points would be accurate if industrialization hadn't swept the country. Agriculture is now huge in the midwest and out far west. The south doesn't have a very large hold on it anymore. Population centers have moved as well with the changes in industry. The biggest differences are results of the political divides. States that have a strong voting preference tend to reflect that parties form of government. The US's constitution guaranteed state's rights to operate rather autonomously, this kind of defeats your argument for splitting.

Define better.

The world would probably be very different that's for sure.

http://freeadam.net/2013/05/24/adam-kokesh-march-50-state-capitols/

“When a government has repeatedly and deliberately failed to follow its own laws, violated the fundamental human rights of its citizens, threatened the sanctity of a free press, created institutions intended to eliminate privacy of communication, waged war at the behest of special interest that threatens the public safety, killed hundreds of children with drone strikes, imprisoned and destroyed the lives of countless individuals for victimless crimes, stifled economic opportunity to maintain the dominance of the financial elite, stolen from the people through an absurd system of taxation and inflation, sold future generations into debt slavery, and abused its power to suppress political opposition, it is unfit to exist and it becomes the duty of the people to alter or abolish that government by whatever means necessary to secure liberty and ensure peace.

“A new American revolution is long overdue. This revolution has been brewing in the hearts and minds of the people for many years, but this Independence Day, it shall take a new form as the American Revolutionary Army will march on each state capital to demand that the governors of these 50 states immediately initiate the process of an orderly dissolution of the federal government through secession and reclamation of federally held property. Should one whole year from this July 4th pass while the crimes of this government are allowed to continue, we may have passed the point at which non-violent revolution becomes impossible.

“The time to sit idly by has passed. To remain neutral is to be complicit, just doing your job is not an excuse, and the line in the sand has been drawn between the people, and the criminals in Washington, D.C. While some timid souls will say that it is too early, that we can solve this problem through democratic means provided by government, that current levels of taxation are reasonable for the services provided, and that the crimes of this government are merely a tolerable nuisance, it may already be too late.

“While there is risk in drastic action, the greater danger lies in allowing this government to continue unchallenged. So if you are content with the status quo, stay home, get fat, watch the fireworks from a safe distance, and allow this Independence Day to pass like any other. But if you see as we see, and feel as we feel, we will see you on the front lines of freedom on July 4th, 2013 for this, The Final American Revolution.”

Signed, Adam Kokesh, May 23, 2013 from a cage in the Philadelphia federal prison.

Maybe we'll have a chance to find out if it would be better to have lost the Civil War... if anyone shows up!

How do the people live so differently? I've lived in the south, I've lived right in the middle, I've lived out west.  It's all pretty much the same. Most states have rural areas and urban areas. All the states have their fair share of religious nuts, right wing nuts, and lefties, they all have moderates. 

Our political parties were once more central, not that long ago. It's really only in the last decade that the right has gone off the rails.  The Civil War didn't have anything to do with it.

People in the North don't tell me to, "have a blessed day." I know it's a regional thing, but they certainly wear that stuff on their sleeves.

Who wears what on their sleeves? I live in the south and I don't know anyone who says "have a blessed day". 

If there is an increase in people saying "have a blessed day" in some regions of the country, I wonder if it's a reaction to the made up "war on Christmas" Fox News promotes every year.  Googling the phrase makes me think it is. 

Maybe the people offering all those blessings are witches!

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 02:20:36 PM

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Are you surprised?  Do I not fit the stereotype?

Quote from: burdenofproof on June 01, 2013, 06:34:32 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 02:20:36 PM

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Are you surprised?  Do I not fit the stereotype?

Which stereotype?

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 06:41:59 PM

Quote from: burdenofproof on June 01, 2013, 06:34:32 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 02:20:36 PM

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Are you surprised?  Do I not fit the stereotype?

Which stereotype?

I don't know, whichever one was on your racist little mind.  All of them, I suppose.

Quote from: burdenofproof on June 01, 2013, 07:08:14 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 06:41:59 PM

Quote from: burdenofproof on June 01, 2013, 06:34:32 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 02:20:36 PM

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Are you surprised?  Do I not fit the stereotype?

Which stereotype?

I don't know, whichever one was on your racist little mind.  All of them, I suppose.

What?

Jews can't be black.  Or can they?

They can.

Jews can't be black.  Or can they?

He's jewish too?

All of my racism. Right here.

Quote from: burdenofproof on June 01, 2013, 06:34:32 PM

Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist on June 01, 2013, 02:20:36 PM

I used to hear "Have a blessed day" all the time.  I think it's more of a black thing than a regional thing.

You're black?

Are you surprised?  Do I not fit the stereotype?

Roundy just lives in the hood.

have a blessed day!