Space Flight

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #660 on: July 06, 2013, 07:49:17 AM »
Ok, I assume that's your answer for the first question. Should we agree that  a rocket need some time to build up its speed ?

any answer for the second question?

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #661 on: July 06, 2013, 08:42:28 AM »
Ok, I assume that's your answer for the first question. Should we agree that  a rocket need some time to build up its speed ?

any answer for the second question?
No. A rocket doesn't need "some" time to build up speed, it shoots off vertically and that's it, it just carries on at that velocity until it runs out of fuel.

Your second question is what I've just explained. Once it lifts off and gains full thrust, which is in a split second, it shoots up. It cannot happen any other way or the structure of the rocket is immediately in jeopardy.

So basically, you are saying that a rocket reaches its max speed  immediately after launch, not 1/10th of second after, but at the moment the engine starts, correct ?
In that case, can you give some estimation of this velocity ?

You've still didn't say how do you know that a rocket launch is a fake.
For instance, this one : A V2 missile ( jump to 0:40)

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">V2 Colour Launch testing

If considered as a fake, can you provide a video of a genuine one ?
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 08:44:57 AM by Antonio »

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #662 on: July 06, 2013, 09:35:05 AM »
Nothing bigger than the scale models seen there ?
Previously, you said that ICBM launches were real.
Care to find an acceptable one for you ?

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #663 on: July 06, 2013, 10:13:40 AM »
and heres the commander of the ISS doing a potato chip commercial.

" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">

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Scintific Method

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #664 on: July 06, 2013, 03:02:59 PM »
No. A rocket doesn't need "some" time to build up speed, it shoots off vertically and that's it, it just carries on at that velocity until it runs out of fuel.

This is so blatantly wrong, it makes my head hurt just to read it... That's not 'indoctrination' speaking either, but proper common sense.

Scepti, if you took the time to do some simple measurements on those videos (the distance the rocket covers in each frame of the video), you would see evidence of a continuous increase in speed (the rocket would cover more in each frame than it did in the one before). Take your pick which video you use, one that looks real to you would be a good start.
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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #665 on: July 06, 2013, 04:57:50 PM »
No. A rocket doesn't need "some" time to build up speed, it shoots off vertically and that's it, it just carries on at that velocity until it runs out of fuel.

This is so blatantly wrong, it makes my head hurt just to read it... That's not 'indoctrination' speaking either, but proper common sense.

Scepti, if you took the time to do some simple measurements on those videos (the distance the rocket covers in each frame of the video), you would see evidence of a continuous increase in speed (the rocket would cover more in each frame than it did in the one before). Take your pick which video you use, one that looks real to you would be a good start.

Sceptimatic may be the rocket expert......But............."Common Sense"........... ????????????????????????????

Scintific Method , would you please pass the aspirin around to all of us ?  ???
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 08:40:07 PM by Googleotomy »
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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #666 on: July 06, 2013, 08:29:05 PM »
Rockets cannot slow start like they show us in the videos of the supposed space launches.
Rockets do not start slowly, no matter what they are.
Rockets "do not" start slowly, no matter what.


Why not?
Im a tractor

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #667 on: July 06, 2013, 08:41:18 PM »
Rockets cannot slow start like they show us in the videos of the supposed space launches.
Rockets do not start slowly, no matter what they are.
Rockets "do not" start slowly, no matter what.


Why not?

....And why and how ?
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
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Puttah

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #668 on: July 07, 2013, 02:05:00 AM »
Scepti, when I asked you how fast a ball travels when it's dropped from your hand to the floor, I guess it wasn't such a stupid question after all and the only reason you didn't answer is because you don't know, huh.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #669 on: July 07, 2013, 08:22:58 AM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #670 on: July 07, 2013, 12:32:32 PM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.

What do you mean by a "Slow" rocket take off?

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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #671 on: July 07, 2013, 01:14:09 PM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.
How about these people? (you can skip ahead to about 4:00 for the launch)
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Final Space Shuttle STS-135 Launch with crowd reactions
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #672 on: July 07, 2013, 01:22:36 PM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.

What do you mean by a "Slow" rocket take off?
As in, not fast.

I wanted to know to see if you have any specific meaning of a slow rocket. You ask why doesn't a rocket fall when it's take off from the launch pad because of it's slow speed. Well, let's teach you a bit of physics. The rocket nozzles are mounted on a gimbal. This is what we call the Gimbaled Thrust System (GTS). This will allow them to vector the thrust to direct the rocket on a specific route.



This shows the director of the thrust through the centre of gravity for the rocket. By swiveling slightly from side to side, thereby maintaining its stability..

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RyanTG

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #673 on: July 07, 2013, 01:38:57 PM »
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.

What on earth are you bloody talking about? Every time a rocket takes off there are thousands of people that spectate the event at kennedy space centre. I know people who have gone there including one of my friends who went there with his family when his was young:



You are seriously mentally ill if you don't believe these rockets ever take off.

You can buy tickets for the events.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 01:47:42 PM by RyanTG »

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #674 on: July 07, 2013, 01:43:10 PM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.
Vehicles that weigh 100 grams must accelerate identically to vehicles that weigh a 100 tons. Right. Must be 100% true because that's what makes sense to Scepti.

Just like in the previous subjects talked about here, you have nothing with which to support your idea. It being 100% true in your mind just isn't an argument as long as there are facts to suggest otherwise and oh my, there are.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #675 on: July 07, 2013, 04:17:37 PM »


Quote from: RyanTG
What on earth are you bloody talking about? Every time a rocket takes off there are thousands of people that spectate the event at kennedy space centre. I know people who have gone there including one of my friends who went there with his family when his was young:



You are seriously mentally ill if you don't believe these rockets ever take off.

You can buy tickets for the events.



There is a plus sign on the monitor, which would indicate that is roughly 10 seconds after ignition.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #676 on: July 07, 2013, 05:28:36 PM »


Quote from: RyanTG
What on earth are you bloody talking about? Every time a rocket takes off there are thousands of people that spectate the event at kennedy space centre. I know people who have gone there including one of my friends who went there with his family when his was young:



You are seriously mentally ill if you don't believe these rockets ever take off.

You can buy tickets for the events.



There is a plus sign on the monitor, which would indicate that is roughly 10 seconds after ignition.
Thank you for that. Now I have a confession to make.

I was just waiting for someone to chime in with this, because I'm trying to make my point about slow rocket launches and this is what I'm talking about.
10 seconds into lift off and it's barely 200 feet into the air.

I have 2 questions:

Question #1 :
For sceptimatic :
How did you estimate the height of the rocket at 200 feet ?

Question #2 :
For all the others on this forum :
How many of you have ever made even  the slighest bit of sense from any thing that sceptimatic posts ?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 05:33:17 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #677 on: July 07, 2013, 05:30:58 PM »
If you want a rocket to leave the launch pad slowly, then don't be anywhere near it, because it will simply lift , unbalance...and fall over, end of rocket.
And yet there are countless eye witness and video accounts of large rockets leaving the launch pad slowly and accelerating upwards for many miles without unbalancing, falling over or crashing.  Are all of those eye witnesses lying and all of these videos fake?
Any slow rocket take off video is fake, yes.
Show me witnesses that have witnessed a slow rocket take off.
How about these people? (you can skip ahead to about 4:00 for the launch)
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Final Space Shuttle STS-135 Launch with crowd reactions
Everybody shouting and screaming and clapping and yet you see nobody shouting and screaming and clapping. Oh and a lovely clear day it is, isn't it?

Come on Marko, you're not as naive as you are making out.
You asked for witnesses to a "slow launch".  You didn't say anything about clapping, screaming, shouting or clear weather.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #678 on: July 07, 2013, 05:33:23 PM »
how did you determine 200 ft?

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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #679 on: July 07, 2013, 05:40:26 PM »
Question #2 :
For all the others on this forum :
How many of you have ever made even  the slighest bit of sense from any thing that sceptimatic posts ?
Sceptimatic (like many other FE'ers) uses the strongest argument available; the right of say so.  Basically, he's right because he says so and nothing that anyone says or does will ever be able to change that.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Shmeggley

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #680 on: July 07, 2013, 05:51:23 PM »


Quote from: RyanTG
What on earth are you bloody talking about? Every time a rocket takes off there are thousands of people that spectate the event at kennedy space centre. I know people who have gone there including one of my friends who went there with his family when his was young:



You are seriously mentally ill if you don't believe these rockets ever take off.

You can buy tickets for the events.



There is a plus sign on the monitor, which would indicate that is roughly 10 seconds after ignition.
Thank you for that. Now I have a confession to make.

I was just waiting for someone to chime in with this, because I'm trying to make my point about slow rocket launches and this is what I'm talking about.
10 seconds into lift off and it's barely 200 feet into the air.

I have 2 questions:

Question #1 :
For sceptimatic :
How did you estimate the height of the rocket at 200 feet ?

Question #2 :
For all the others on this forum :
How many of you have ever made even  the slighest bit of sense from any thing that sceptimatic posts ?

I have read his posts carefully and it's mostly incoherent gibberish. He constantly contradicts himself, sometimes in a single post. His strongest argument is that he knows he's right, and despite his monumental ignorance of mainstream science he somehow knows it's made up BS.

Despite all this he is endlessly entertaining. I still suspect he might be a troll but I'm leaning toward him just being a sincere crank. Maybe we should all get together on Skype sometime, that might shed some light on this...
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Shmeggley

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #681 on: July 07, 2013, 06:08:22 PM »
Quote from: Shmeggley
I have read his posts carefully and it's mostly incoherent gibberish. He constantly contradicts himself, sometimes in a single post. His strongest argument is that he knows he's right, and despite his monumental ignorance of mainstream science he somehow knows it's made up BS.

Despite all this he is endlessly entertaining. I still suspect he might be a troll but I'm leaning toward him just being a sincere crank. Maybe we should all get together on Skype sometime, that might shed some light on this...
Nice try.  ;)

Just calling it as I see it. So no skype session then? I promise I won't beam any indoctrination signals through your headset. I can't speak for anyone else though.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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Pyrolizard

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #682 on: July 07, 2013, 06:21:08 PM »
how did you determine 200 ft?
What do you estimate then?

Eh, question wasn't directed at me, but I feel like chiming in.  The Ares I-X, the rocket imaged in that picture, was around 327 feet tall.  It traveled it's own length between three and four times at that point in the picture, so between 981 and 1308 feet.

Even if the distance couldn't be approximated, does that entitle you to pull a number out of nowhere?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 06:40:22 PM by Pyrolizard »
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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #683 on: July 07, 2013, 06:23:52 PM »
They could be bird watching for all I know. It seems strange how everyone is cheering and clapping and yet nobody in the video is doing any of that, so what are these actually witnessing?
First of all, did you watch the entire video?  You can plainly see the shuttle lifting off at the 4:00 minute mark.
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">#ws
Secondly, what should a cheering crowd look like from behind?  ???
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Space Flight
« Reply #684 on: July 07, 2013, 07:18:45 PM »


Quote from: RyanTG
What on earth are you bloody talking about? Every time a rocket takes off there are thousands of people that spectate the event at kennedy space centre. I know people who have gone there including one of my friends who went there with his family when his was young:



You are seriously mentally ill if you don't believe these rockets ever take off.

You can buy tickets for the events.



There is a plus sign on the monitor, which would indicate that is roughly 10 seconds after ignition.
Thank you for that. Now I have a confession to make.

I was just waiting for someone to chime in with this, because I'm trying to make my point about slow rocket launches and this is what I'm talking about.
10 seconds into lift off and it's barely 200 feet into the air.

I have 2 questions:

Question #1 :
For sceptimatic :
How did you estimate the height of the rocket at 200 feet ?

Question #2 :
For all the others on this forum :
How many of you have ever made even  the slighest bit of sense from any thing that sceptimatic posts ?
What height would you say it was? An estimate.

I was asking the question. The burden of the proof is with you sceptimatic ;D
(Oh, Why do I even bother with this nonsense ? )  ???
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

Pyrolizard

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #685 on: July 07, 2013, 07:33:33 PM »
how did you determine 200 ft?
What do you estimate then?

Eh, question wasn't directed at me, but I feel like chiming in.  The Ares I-X, the rocket imaged in that picture, was around 327 feet tall.  It traveled it's own length between three and four times at that point in the picture, so between 981 and 1308 feet.

Even if the distance couldn't be approximated, does that entitle you to pull a number out of nowhere?
After 8 seconds, it's arse barely clears the pylon.
Also note the huge crowd that naturally would gather from all over the world to see space rocket launches. Obviously this crowd dispersed because a hamburger van turned up in the back ground and just left a few dozen sensible ones that had already had lunch, I suppose.
Or maybe they came to watch the birds and there was no other crowds and hamburger van.
What seems more likely in this scenario?
Anyone?

Note the first 8 seconds of the video and notice the terrain from that video angle. Tell me what you see.
This just gets sillier and sillier.

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">ARES I-X Launch

I'm sorry, and how does any of this give you the right to pull a number out of nowhere, when a simple reverse image search on google followed by basic approximation and math could have given you at least something close to where it was?

You recognize that this was a test, and that only the press and members of NASA were allowed anywhere near this thing?  The issue of safety is a big one, and it's not worth having to supervise hundreds, if not thousands of people at the location for a test where nothing significant actually happens other than confirmation that the new design works as expected.

Okay, let me rewatch the video.  I see some grass, a launch pad, some towers, and a rocket...  Now some grass, some people, a countdown timer, a flagpole, a lake, some trees on the other side of the lake, a raised clearing to the left of the image, and the rocket and towers peering up above the trees...  And now another - possibly the same - lake, a hill leading out of the lake covered in trees, the launch pad, rocket, and towers again, and a clearing behind and to the right of the pad which has a cylindrical building with a domed top in it.  Nothing of much interest, I don't think, but if you like trees so much I can't disagree. 

If you're talking about the rather obvious difference in the audio and countdown timer, it's probably bad syncing on the part of the video maker.  The timer could be wrong, too, I guess. Don't really think the launch depends on that one being right.
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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #686 on: July 07, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »
They could be bird watching for all I know. It seems strange how everyone is cheering and clapping and yet nobody in the video is doing any of that, so what are these actually witnessing?
First of all, did you watch the entire video?  You can plainly see the shuttle lifting off at the 4:00 minute mark.
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">#ws
Secondly, what should a cheering crowd look like from behind?  ???
Marko you are making me laugh. You can clearly see what I'm talking about.
Apparently not.  Would you care to explain?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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markjo

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #687 on: July 07, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »
They could be bird watching for all I know. It seems strange how everyone is cheering and clapping and yet nobody in the video is doing any of that, so what are these actually witnessing?
First of all, did you watch the entire video?  You can plainly see the shuttle lifting off at the 4:00 minute mark.
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">#ws
Secondly, what should a cheering crowd look like from behind?  ???
Marko you are making me laugh. You can clearly see what I'm talking about.
Apparently not.  Would you care to explain?
No, no. If you can't see anything wrong with that footage, then go with it.
If you can't tell me what's wrong with that footage, then don't act like you can.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Pyrolizard

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #688 on: July 07, 2013, 08:04:20 PM »
how did you determine 200 ft?
What do you estimate then?

Eh, question wasn't directed at me, but I feel like chiming in.  The Ares I-X, the rocket imaged in that picture, was around 327 feet tall.  It traveled it's own length between three and four times at that point in the picture, so between 981 and 1308 feet.

Even if the distance couldn't be approximated, does that entitle you to pull a number out of nowhere?
After 8 seconds, it's arse barely clears the pylon.
Also note the huge crowd that naturally would gather from all over the world to see space rocket launches. Obviously this crowd dispersed because a hamburger van turned up in the back ground and just left a few dozen sensible ones that had already had lunch, I suppose.
Or maybe they came to watch the birds and there was no other crowds and hamburger van.
What seems more likely in this scenario?
Anyone?

Note the first 8 seconds of the video and notice the terrain from that video angle. Tell me what you see.
This just gets sillier and sillier.

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">ARES I-X Launch

I'm sorry, and how does any of this give you the right to pull a number out of nowhere, when a simple reverse image search on google followed by basic approximation and math could have given you at least something close to where it was?

You recognize that this was a test, and that only the press and members of NASA were allowed anywhere near this thing?  The issue of safety is a big one, and it's not worth having to supervise hundreds, if not thousands of people at the location for a test where nothing significant actually happens other than confirmation that the new design works as expected.

Okay, let me rewatch the video.  I see some grass, a launch pad, some towers, and a rocket...  Now some grass, some people, a countdown timer, a flagpole, a lake, some trees on the other side of the lake, a raised clearing to the left of the image, and the rocket and towers peering up above the trees...  And now another - possibly the same - lake, a hill leading out of the lake covered in trees, the launch pad, rocket, and towers again, and a clearing behind and to the right of the pad which has a cylindrical building with a domed top in it.  Nothing of much interest, I don't think, but if you like trees so much I can't disagree. 

If you're talking about the rather obvious difference in the audio and countdown timer, it's probably bad syncing on the part of the video maker.  The timer could be wrong, too, I guess. Don't really think the launch depends on that one being right.
Oh, ok. Any idea how this video guy/gal saw over the trees in that 7 seconds. I mean, did he/she climb "quickly" up a tower or something to zoom in or am I missing something here?

So the idea of three different cameras giving three different angles stumps you.  How is that a problem with the footage?
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Pyrolizard

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Re: Space Flight
« Reply #689 on: July 07, 2013, 08:37:20 PM »
Quote from: Pyrolizard
So the idea of three different cameras giving three different angles stumps you.  How is that a problem with the footage?
So I was right then, someone did climb a tower and then all 3 amateurs knitted the videos together. Or were they official cameramen.
Hmmm.

Evidently sarcasm eludes you as well, so I'll say it real plain.  Nobody needed to climb a tower, because there were three cameras that gave footage to the video up to the point of around eleven seconds.  This footage was spliced together to give the video you see.

So...  What's your point, here?  Seems like the first two camera angles were from fixed cameras.  For the third, who said the camera guy doing this was amazing at his job?  Or the guy editing the video together, for that matter, since they may well not be the same guy?  And how is any of this relevant to you pulling a number from nowhere and the validity of it's launch speed?
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I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
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