I want anyone here to give me a logical reason as to why the earth is flat.

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Rama Set

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If you have a photo of the same camera from different altitudes you would have a point.

That doesn't matter.  If curvature existed, it would not be noticeable at the altitude.  Once you realize this, you can move on to something more productive.

Here I proved you using two photos from the same person with the same camera, from the same plane...
(actually three, but the third one is taken at another day....)

You didn't prove anything.  You haphazardly drew a line through some photos you found online.  Keep trying though.

And then there is the Google Image to completely show you that any distortion on the picture should not appear EXACTLY the same as in Google.

Once again, it does not prove anything about the Earth being round or flat.

I am not sure you know what haphazardly means, but the drawing of the line to give a visual reference for what flat is is most sure not haphazard. It's not arbitrary either. It's a visual baseline.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Junker

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I am not sure you know what haphazardly means, but the drawing of the line to give a visual reference for what flat is is most sure not haphazard. It's not arbitrary either. It's a visual baseline.

Yes, I know what it means.  I was being a bit grandiose.  The point stands that his entire post means nothing.

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Lolflatdisc

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I am not sure you know what haphazardly means, but the drawing of the line to give a visual reference for what flat is is most sure not haphazard. It's not arbitrary either. It's a visual baseline.

Yes, I know what it means.  I was being a bit grandiose.  The point stands that his entire post means nothing.

You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.
Hello!

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Junker

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You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.

Repeating it over and over does not make it proof, no matter how much you wish it to be.

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DuckDodgers

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You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.

Repeating it over and over does not make it proof, no matter how much you wish it to be.

He is actually making a fairly good point with the pictures by showing a distortion reference at a low altitude, which doesn't show a significant amount of curvature if any, and the same camera/window set up at a higher altitude that is showing a significant apparent curvature.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Junker

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You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.

Repeating it over and over does not make it proof, no matter how much you wish it to be.

He is actually making a fairly good point with the pictures by showing a distortion reference at a low altitude, which doesn't show a significant amount of curvature if any, and the same camera/window set up at a higher altitude that is showing a significant apparent curvature.

I'd like to know if the camera was held precisely in the same spot relative to the window in all of the photos.  I imagine not given turbulence and other factors  Using a lens, going through a window, seems like it would be quite easy to have different results on different photos if the camera is held at even slightly a different angle..

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Lolflatdisc

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You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.

Repeating it over and over does not make it proof, no matter how much you wish it to be.

He is actually making a fairly good point with the pictures by showing a distortion reference at a low altitude, which doesn't show a significant amount of curvature if any, and the same camera/window set up at a higher altitude that is showing a significant apparent curvature.

I'd like to know if the camera was held precisely in the same spot relative to the window in all of the photos.  I imagine not given turbulence and other factors  Using a lens, going through a window, seems like it would be quite easy to have different results on different photos if the camera is held at even slightly a different angle..

Hence the third photo and the google earth image. Absolute proof.
Hello!

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Junker

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You are right. To you it doesn't mean anything. You are unable to grasp it. For any other normal human being however, that is proof.

Repeating it over and over does not make it proof, no matter how much you wish it to be.

He is actually making a fairly good point with the pictures by showing a distortion reference at a low altitude, which doesn't show a significant amount of curvature if any, and the same camera/window set up at a higher altitude that is showing a significant apparent curvature.

I'd like to know if the camera was held precisely in the same spot relative to the window in all of the photos.  I imagine not given turbulence and other factors  Using a lens, going through a window, seems like it would be quite easy to have different results on different photos if the camera is held at even slightly a different angle..

Hence the third photo and the google earth image. Absolute proof.

The 3rd photo confirms that all photos were taken in the exact same position and exact same angle?

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Lolflatdisc

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The second photo does for sure. The third photo is made by the same person, on the same plane one day before the other two photos were taken.

Then there is also the google earth image. 

Hello!

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Junker

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The second photo does for sure. The third photo is made by the same person, on the same plane one day before the other two photos were taken.

I would like to know how you can confirm that.  An approximate guess is not the same thing.

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Lolflatdisc

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The second photo does for sure. The third photo is made by the same person, on the same plane one day before the other two photos were taken.

I would like to know how you can confirm that.  An approximate guess is not the same thing.

I gave the links to the photos so you can verify it yourself.
Hello!

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Junker

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The second photo does for sure. The third photo is made by the same person, on the same plane one day before the other two photos were taken.

I would like to know how you can confirm that.  An approximate guess is not the same thing.

I gave the links to the photos so you can verify it yourself.

Unsurprisingly, I did not see any information on your source link about that.  Although it does appear that the first photo is using zoom, while the other one is not.  What is clear is that the pictures were not taken under the same conditions.

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Lolflatdisc

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The second photo does for sure. The third photo is made by the same person, on the same plane one day before the other two photos were taken.

I would like to know how you can confirm that.  An approximate guess is not the same thing.

I gave the links to the photos so you can verify it yourself.

Unsurprisingly, I did not see any information on your source link about that.  Although it does appear that the first photo is using zoom, while the other one is not.  What is clear is that the pictures were not taken under the same conditions.

I gave you the links so you could check that the date, the flight, the window, the photographer, everything is the same. If one is zoomed, the other is not it does not matter. Never ever did I get a distorted photo when I zoomed in.

Proof me how it could distort the photo in any way and you gain credits. Now you're just trying to dismiss the evidence without a solid reason. Not a single photo can ever be taken in exactly the same conditions. You got the proof right in front of you, but still you fear to admit it.
Hello!

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Junker

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I gave you the links so you could check that the date, the flight, the window, the photographer, everything is the same. If one is zoomed, the other is not it does not matter. Never ever did I get a distorted photo when I zoomed in.

Proof me how it could distort the photo in any way and you gain credits. Now you're just trying to dismiss the evidence without a solid reason. Not a single photo can ever be taken in exactly the same conditions. You got the proof right in front of you, but still you fear to admit it.

I believed you that they were actual photos taken by a real person on a plane.  Zooming and changing the angle while shooting a photo through a double-pane glass window can certainly cause distortion.

I have explained to you how it could be distorted, even slightly. 

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Lolflatdisc

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I gave you the links so you could check that the date, the flight, the window, the photographer, everything is the same. If one is zoomed, the other is not it does not matter. Never ever did I get a distorted photo when I zoomed in.

Proof me how it could distort the photo in any way and you gain credits. Now you're just trying to dismiss the evidence without a solid reason. Not a single photo can ever be taken in exactly the same conditions. You got the proof right in front of you, but still you fear to admit it.

I believed you that they were actual photos taken by a real person on a plane.  Zooming and changing the angle while shooting a photo through a double-pane glass window can certainly cause distortion.

I have explained to you how it could be distorted, even slightly.

Nope. The 'distortion' would be too significant to be a distortion and we should see low altitude pictures with a curved horizon as well. Then there is also the independent Google earth image. At the roughly same altitude, from roughly the same place which  also show a curvature. This is impossible. If you take a google image at a lower altitude from the same place, you will see the horizon will be flat. This is definitely proof of a round earth. If any distortion can occur by slightly changing the angle or zooming in, show me with another set of pictures.
Hello!

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Junker

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I gave you the links so you could check that the date, the flight, the window, the photographer, everything is the same. If one is zoomed, the other is not it does not matter. Never ever did I get a distorted photo when I zoomed in.

Proof me how it could distort the photo in any way and you gain credits. Now you're just trying to dismiss the evidence without a solid reason. Not a single photo can ever be taken in exactly the same conditions. You got the proof right in front of you, but still you fear to admit it.

I believed you that they were actual photos taken by a real person on a plane.  Zooming and changing the angle while shooting a photo through a double-pane glass window can certainly cause distortion.

I have explained to you how it could be distorted, even slightly.

Nope. The 'distortion' would be too significant to be a distortion and we should see low altitude pictures with a curved horizon as well. Then there is also the independent Google earth image. At the roughly same altitude, from roughly the same place which  also show a curvature. This is impossible. If you take a google image at a lower altitude from the same place, you will see the horizon will be flat. This is definitely proof of a round earth. If any distortion can occur by slightly changing the angle or zooming in, show me with another set of pictures.

Saying nope doesn't change anything.  If the photos are are slightly different angles, taken through a window (two, actually), possibly different heights/positions relative to the window, it is possible to have some distortion.

Please see the photos here:

http://wanderinweeta.blogspot.com/2011/04/beach-amusements.html

Particularly the first 3 in the series, all taken at the same location.  The first appears to have a flat horizon, the 2nd the horizon bends up, the 3rd the horizon bends down.

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Lolflatdisc

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For my pictures. I already thought that you would come up with pictures like these. Hence the Google Earth image, as an independent judge to whether to curvature is real. If I would take Google Earth to the same place as where the images you showed me were taken, you will see that they will not correspond.

The upward picture can be explained as follows. The beach and the land are sloped. Behind the water horizon there is even more land. The camera is tilted. This gives the illussion of an upward bending horizon.

Here is another one. If you look to the left, it appears to bend upwards




« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 12:57:20 PM by Lolflatdisc »
Hello!

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Junker

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For my pictures. I already thought that you would come up with pictures like these. Hence the Google Earth image, as an independent judge to whether to curvature is real. If I would take Google Earth to the same place as where the images you showed me were taken, you will see that they will not correspond.

The upward picture can be explained as follows. The beach and the land are sloped. Behind the water horizon there is even more land. The camera is tilted. This gives the illussion of an upward bending horizon.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7490466@N08/3157979463/#

No sloped land in this photo or land beyond the horizon.  Just good old upward bending.

The camera is tilted. This gives the illussion of an upward bending horizon.

I am glad you admit that the camera being tilted can cause distortion.  This was my point and you proved it.

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Lolflatdisc

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For my pictures. I already thought that you would come up with pictures like these. Hence the Google Earth image, as an independent judge to whether to curvature is real. If I would take Google Earth to the same place as where the images you showed me were taken, you will see that they will not correspond.

The upward picture can be explained as follows. The beach and the land are sloped. Behind the water horizon there is even more land. The camera is tilted. This gives the illussion of an upward bending horizon.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7490466@N08/3157979463/#

No sloped land in this photo or land beyond the horizon.  Just good old upward bending.


Thank you for sharing. I see now what you mean.

I am glad you admit that the camera being tilted can cause distortion.  This was my point and you proved it.

I have been digging a bit deeper into photography, as I know nothing about it. It has not much to do with tilting the camera, but more with the wide-angle lense.

Here is the link to the photo forum http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/photography-beginners-forum/190819-noob-question-bent-horizon.html

So these lense can cause some distortions, that much is true. But now let's go back to the photo you have been refering to.

The picture you showed me shows an upward curved horizon. I also found a photo of the same person he took in which you can see a downward curvature. It is this one
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7490466@N08/3158791944/#

Now the two differences between these two pictures...



The difference between the two pictures. In one picture you can see  the horizon is captured higher. Because it is a wide angle lens, if the horizon is higher on the picture, the lens will distort it downwards. If the horizon is captured lower, it will distort it upwards. That is exactly what we see in these two pictures. If the horizon would be more to the middle of the image. Here is a simple diagram to illustrate just that. Below that the photos from the photographer you have been refering to, to show you just that. I will also show you that just any picture he uploaded is bended upwards, downards or horizontal if you look at the place where the horizon is captured. I am sorry if my English is letting you down, perhaps a native speaker can explain it in more clearer words to you, but the following diagrams should speak for itself.







Here you have a horizon which is almost captured in the middle, therefore hardly any distortions

Here you have another photo he took, again the horizon is captured lower. Distorting it upwards




If you have a good look at my pictures I have presented to you, the horizon is captured almost at the same height on the picture. Such a great distortion cannot possibly be caused by a wide angle lense. Furthermore there is the indepdent Google Image, without any wide angle lense and it shows you exactly the same curvature as on the high altitude photo.





« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 03:24:26 PM by Lolflatdisc »
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Lolflatdisc

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In case you are writing a reply atm, read my previous post again. It inserted my previously two presented pictures from the airplane + corrected some typos. 
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Junker

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If you have a good look at my pictures I have presented to you, the horizon is captured almost at the same height on the picture. Such a great distortion cannot possibly be caused by a wide angle lense. Furthermore there is the indepdent Google Image, without any wide angle lense and it shows you exactly the same curvature as on the high altitude photo.



I applaud your efforts in researching, diagram wasn't necessary but may be helpful for others.  Your English was fine.  What I am saying is that your plane photo is capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level, while also being limited to a field of view from that of an airplane window.  Through two panes of glass at that altitude, I am saying that even a slightly different height, or angle can cause distortion.

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Lolflatdisc

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I applaud your efforts in researching, diagram wasn't necessary but may be helpful for others.  Your English was fine.  What I am saying is that your plane photo is capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level, while also being limited to a field of view from that of an airplane window.  Through two panes of glass at that altitude, I am saying that even a slightly different height, or angle can cause distortion.

Thank you. I do not really get what you mean. The two panes of glass are there in both pictures. The glass did not disappear in one photo. If it would be a factor, it would cause disruption in both pictures. Do you mean the horizon is physically farther away, at like 300 km instead of (guess) 10 km?

Also as I have been saying before, there is the independent Google image.
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Junker

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Thank you. I do not really get what you mean. The two panes of glass are there in both pictures. The glass did not disappear in one photo. If it would be a factor, it would cause disruption in both pictures. Do you mean the horizon is physically farther away, at like 300 km instead of (guess) 10 km?

Also as I have been saying before, there is the independent Google image.

It could cause distortion in both pictures, one, or none depending on the angle of the camera, height, distance relative to the window.  I am not saying that I am concluding that this is the case, just that we do not know if it is and therefore cannot draw absolute conclusions.  I was referring to the distance of the visible horizon.

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Lolflatdisc

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It could cause distortion in both pictures, one, or none depending on the angle of the camera, height, distance relative to the window.  I am not saying that I am concluding that this is the case, just that we do not know if it is and therefore cannot draw absolute conclusions.  I was referring to the distance of the visible horizon.

The short answer

I do not think it is realistic to still dispute the pictures, because it cannot be absolute conclusive. However, then you can doubt everything, because you will never get absolute conclusive evidence in anything. If you would run a laboratory test in which you get perfect conditions, there are still factor which change. If you take a camera, press once, press twice. The second picture was taken on a camera with slightly more wear and tear, the battery was not as full as when the first picture was taken, the time at which it was taken is different. The force at which the laborant pushed down on the button. Etc. All small changing factors.

All these small factors are neglectable, unless you got sufficient reason to think otherwise.

The longer answer

Nothing in life can be completely certain. However, looking at the things we observe. In the pictures you have presented we can clearly identify the reasons behind the curvature.

We have looked at the different photos and could see that if the horizon was captured high on the picture it shows a downward curvature. If the horizon was captured low on the picture it shows an upward curavture. We also looked a picture in which the horizon was captured almost in the middle. The horizon was captured slightly below the middle, so therefore we can notice a slightly upward curvature, but this one is not as significant as the lower one. Even in these pictures some small factors may be in play, the angle of the camera, the distance of the photographer to the sea, the zoom, but none of these have such a factor that they change our set of rules.

The rules are:
If the horizon is high on the picture, it curves downwards, due to the wide angle lens.
If the horizon is captured in the middle, it is horizontal, due to the wide angle lens.
If the horizon is low on the picture it curves upwards, due to the wide angle lens.

You can rerun this to verify the rules by using another wide angle lens. You could also verify it by not using a wide angle lens. If you use a normal lens and you capture the horizon high on the picture you should not see a downward curvature, etc. It is about ruling out the variables so you are left with just one adjustable variable.

In the pictures I have presented to you. If any small factor would be in play, what would cause such a major distortion? Can you rule out anything in particular? To me, the size of the engine is pretty much the same, the height at which the horizon was captured on the picture, the perspective are also almost identical in both pictures. The only huge difference between two pictures is the altitude. So the set rules we can apply here is.

At low altitude you cannot detect a (significant) curvature
At high altitude you can detect a (significant) curvature

And just to verify if these set of rules are true, you can rerun it. Go in a plane, take it to a high altitude and see if the horizon will curve downward. Also if you stand on the beach at low altitude, does it curve? It will give you conclusive evidence the set rules are true. Any small factors are neglectable, unless you got sufficient reason to believe otherwise.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 05:14:47 PM by Lolflatdisc »
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Scintific Method

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...capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level...

Funny how the higher you go, the further away the horizon gets. Why is that again?
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

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jtlondon83

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Re: I want anyone here to give me a logical reason as to why the earth is flat.
« Reply #145 on: September 23, 2013, 06:13:24 PM »
...capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level...

Funny how the higher you go, the further away the horizon gets. Why is that again?

Love it.

Also, enjoying the lack of a response.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: I want anyone here to give me a logical reason as to why the earth is flat.
« Reply #146 on: September 23, 2013, 06:24:56 PM »
...capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level...

Funny how the higher you go, the further away the horizon gets. Why is that again?

Love it.

Also, enjoying the lack of a response.

jt, reviving a long-dead thread without adding anything of substance to the discussion in the upper forums is considered low-content posting and against the rules.  Consider this a warning.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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jtlondon83

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Re: I want anyone here to give me a logical reason as to why the earth is flat.
« Reply #147 on: September 23, 2013, 07:41:57 PM »
...capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level...

Funny how the higher you go, the further away the horizon gets. Why is that again?

Love it.

Also, enjoying the lack of a response.

jt, reviving a long-dead thread without adding anything of substance to the discussion in the upper forums is considered low-content posting and against the rules.  Consider this a warning.

Actually my substance was to reiterate the very succinct challenge offered by Scintific Method to any FE fans - if a things true then you should have all the answers..

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: I want anyone here to give me a logical reason as to why the earth is flat.
« Reply #148 on: September 23, 2013, 09:07:22 PM »
...capturing a horizon much farther away than the photos from ground level...

Funny how the higher you go, the further away the horizon gets. Why is that again?

Love it.

Also, enjoying the lack of a response.

jt, reviving a long-dead thread without adding anything of substance to the discussion in the upper forums is considered low-content posting and against the rules.  Consider this a warning.

Actually my substance was to reiterate the very succinct challenge offered by Scintific Method to any FE fans - if a things true then you should have all the answers..

Not good enough.  Locking the thread.  If in the future you have anything valuable to contribute please feel free to do so.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?