Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?

  • 93 Replies
  • 8761 Views
?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?


"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.

They also need to discredit the direct observational evidence of the Earth's sphericity.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?

Yes, they must, because in the FET model the moon is a completely different thing.

I ask because it seems a lot of FE's do not believe in spacecraft in general, so it seemed obvious that they need to deny that we went to the moon also?

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17796
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface.

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 06:23:12 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

John Davis

  • Secretary Of The Society
  • Administrator
  • 16851
  • Most Prolific Scientist, 2019
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?
No, I am a flat earther that believes in no conspiracy.
Quantum Ab Hoc

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17796
"Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies? ":-

If you believe in a flat earth must you also have to deny that we have ever been to the moon? Or is that specific conspiracy theory a universal acceptance amongst flat earthers?
No, I am a flat earther that believes in no conspiracy.

Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface.

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

You will notice that in presenting his evidence, he immediately assumes that such a shape could -only- be made by a sneaker.  He does not know which sneaker, if any in 1969 had such a print, and in fact a respectable zetetic who frequents the site, Kendrick tried to find a match and could not.  Is it a bootprint?  I do not know.  Is it a sneaker print? I do not know.  Neither does Tom, and if he says otherwise, he is the one in denial.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17796
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface.

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2013, 06:30:52 AM »

[/quote]

Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
[/quote]

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2013, 06:31:15 AM »
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities? 
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2013, 06:35:22 AM »


Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.
[/quote]

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
[/quote]

They use an inaccurate trigonometric method.  You can find it on the wiki under "Distance to the Sun".  It uses a 45 degree angle to calculate the distance.  I encourage you to try it with a 1500 mile distance and a 22.5 degree angle.  If you do this, you will notice that the sun elevates several hundred miles.  If you try a 67.5 degree angle and a 4500 mile distance, you get a third distance.  This is their proof of the sun's altitude.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2013, 06:39:47 AM »


Please explain yourself. As the planets and stars are 3000 miles away under FET, and earth orbit does not exist, how is NASA honest when they say that their space craft are hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away?

NASA must be conspiring to lie in some manner under FET.

What?! Am I missing something here? 3000 miles away?? What sort of measuring devices are you using? Potatoes?
[/quote]

They use an inaccurate trigonometric method.  You can find it on the wiki under "Distance to the Sun".  It uses a 45 degree angle to calculate the distance.  I encourage you to try it with a 1500 mile distance and a 22.5 degree angle.  If you do this, you will notice that the sun elevates several hundred miles.  If you try a 67.5 degree angle and a 4500 mile distance, you get a third distance.  This is their proof of the sun's altitude.
[/quote]

I love how they think they've outwitted the collective group of physicists who have lived over the past century and who are much smarter and have a much more in-depth knowledge in their studied subject.

*

John Davis

  • Secretary Of The Society
  • Administrator
  • 16851
  • Most Prolific Scientist, 2019
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2013, 06:52:01 AM »
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance. 
Quantum Ab Hoc

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41970
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2013, 06:59:19 AM »
One of the things that I find interesting about the various moon conspiracies is the sheer range of incompatible theories out there.  Some theories say that NASA has never been to the moon, while others say that NASA has been to the moon but found alien civilizations there.  Some FE'ers say that sustained space travel is impossible, but cite UFO conspiracy sites that say that NASA editing the pictures that are coming from Mars.

Conspiracy theorists unite and make up your th*rking minds, will you.  >o<
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2013, 07:03:53 AM »
One of the things that I find interesting about the various moon conspiracies is the sheer range of incompatible theories out there.  Some theories say that NASA has never been to the moon, while others say that NASA has been to the moon but found alien civilizations there.  Some FE'ers say that sustained space travel is impossible, but cite UFO conspiracy sites that say that NASA editing the pictures that are coming from Mars.

Conspiracy theorists unite and make up your th*rking minds, will you.  >o<

Couldn't of put it better myself. And looking at the comments, it seems two flat earthers are now in disagreements about the logistics of space-travel. Seems there isn't even a properly agreed upon model to this hypothesis.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17796
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2013, 07:16:56 AM »
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2013, 07:28:52 AM »
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

It sounds like you are hearing what you want to.  Why don't you ask a question, instead of propsing and answer.  I thought you were Zetetic.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2013, 07:38:52 AM »
There are infinite abstract and concrete machineries that can create | describe a given situation.  I simply postulate that NASA makes lots of mistakes (supported by evidence I'm sure you'd agree) and are using a model that is "close enough" to a correct abstraction of what is happening.  Never attribute to ill will what can be properly explained by ignorance, and lets face it NASA is swimming in ignorance.

Is sounds like your views are in agreement with the motive proposed in the Wiki: that there is no Flat Earth Conspiracy, but there is a Space Travel Conspiracy.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

To believe in this space conspiracy you must accept that all space agencies across the planet, over hundreds of countries are all lying about sending satellites into space.
Someone who is studying physics/engineering and wants to go work for a space agency isn't going to happily accept there are no satellites and be part of the conspiracy.
I am studying Maths and Physics at university and plan to go into further research, If I end up at a space organisation, do I need to keep quiet about it all also? I certainly won't.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2013, 07:49:09 AM »
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface.

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...
The mere fact that it's not a moon boot print, the same as the others, I'd say it is convincing.
Oh and the Russians had their own little scam going on. Unless  you think this piece of crap industrial tea urn landed on the moon and if you do, then ...well, what can I say.



Just so you know what it is, here's the link.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2013, 07:52:17 AM »
Piece of advice RyanTG-Don't talk to Sceptimatic.  PRetty much anything else you can imagine doing is more worthwhile.  He has the logical facuties of a badger and you will regret every conversation you have with him.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

*

Rama Set

  • 6877
  • I am also an engineer
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 07:56:42 AM »
Piece of advice RyanTG-Don't talk to Sceptimatic.  PRetty much anything else you can imagine doing is more worthwhile.  He has the logical facuties of a badger and you will regret every conversation you have with him.
Says the smart person who thinks she knows it all.

In case you did not know, I am a man.  In case you are did, misogyny is not appreciated on the forums.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 08:03:29 AM »
Correct. Evidence suggests that man has never been to the moon.

For example, there is a sneaker print on the lunar surface.

Whenever this is posted we get absurd arguments suggesting that the astronaut merely stepped at an odd angle to cause such a shifted footprint, despite that "stepping at an odd angle" would still keep the treads horizontally aligned with the sole, and not shifted at an angle. Nor would the print treads get smaller and closer together vertically, as is seen.

We also have two different angles of the footprint on that page to see that the print is not dug deeply into the dirt at an angle to cause a "perspective effect of alignment" as has been claimed in the past.

Some people are clearly in denial.

My god you must admit that is hardly the most convincing piece of evidence for there being a moon hoax conspiracy. What about the fact the Russian Space Agency at the time never spoke out about it being fake? They would of been the first to say something was fishy, but absolute silence.

You must accept that they are in on the conspiracy also? Which doesn't seem that much of a leap of faith since you lot already believe in a mass conspiracy to hide the fact that satellites do not exist and the earth is flat...
The mere fact that it's not a moon boot print, the same as the others, I'd say it is convincing.
Oh and the Russians had their own little scam going on. Unless  you think this piece of crap industrial tea urn landed on the moon and if you do, then ...well, what can I say.



Just so you know what it is, here's the link.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap990109.html

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.
Let me tell you where I am at, just so you know.
There is "nothing" man made in space, "anywhere", which means, there are no moon landers, retro reflectors, moon buggies, or Mars rovers or satellites, or probes, in fact, not even a pair of tweezers, in what we are told to perceive is space.
That's my opinion.

Oh my lord. Not to be offensive or anything but you do have some sort of neurological illness? Or are having idiosyncratic ideas just a hobby for you? How can you believe there is nothing in space, seriously? What about the thousands of physicists and engineers that work on space telescopes? What are they doing with their life? What about the hundreds of people at NASA who have spent their lives getting in that position, they just don't care?

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 41970
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 08:14:16 AM »
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2013, 08:19:42 AM »
They're simply working on telescopes. We use them on earth.

SPACE telescopes, like the Spitzer telescope, the Kepler telescope that has a faulty wheel was in the news recently, it may be incapable of being fixed. The brings me onto another topic, I will take an excerpt from wikipedia because it better explains it:

"Since the atmosphere is opaque for most of the electromagnetic spectrum, only a few bands can be observed from the Earth's surface. These bands are visible near-infrared and a portion of the radio-wave part of the spectrum. For this reason there are no X-ray or far-infrared ground-based telescopes as these have to be flown in space to observe. Even if a wavelength is observable from the ground, it might still be advantageous to fly it on a satellite due to astronomical seeing."

There are no x-ray/far-infrared/UV ground based telescopes, there isn't one that exists on the planet, that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is completely absorbed by the atmosphere, so where do we get x-ray/UV/infrared images from? Please don't give me an answer that appeals to conspiracy theories again...
« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 08:24:02 AM by RyanTG »

Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2013, 08:26:57 AM »
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
It looks less distorted on the 2nd picture (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg) and looks to be the same width.
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2013, 08:58:28 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't believe there was a curiosity rover on Mars... Guess that is $2.5billion completely wasted by NASA.

Ever wonder why Mars is so boring?

?

RyanTG

  • 312
  • If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2013, 09:00:49 AM »
They're simply working on telescopes. We use them on earth.

SPACE telescopes, like the Spitzer telescope, the Kepler telescope that has a faulty wheel was in the news recently, it may be incapable of being fixed. The brings me onto another topic, I will take an excerpt from wikipedia because it better explains it:

"Since the atmosphere is opaque for most of the electromagnetic spectrum, only a few bands can be observed from the Earth's surface. These bands are visible near-infrared and a portion of the radio-wave part of the spectrum. For this reason there are no X-ray or far-infrared ground-based telescopes as these have to be flown in space to observe. Even if a wavelength is observable from the ground, it might still be advantageous to fly it on a satellite due to astronomical seeing."

There are no x-ray/far-infrared/UV ground based telescopes, there isn't one that exists on the planet, that part of the electromagnetic spectrum is completely absorbed by the atmosphere, so where do we get x-ray/UV/infrared images from? Please don't give me an answer that appeals to conspiracy theories again...
What pictures are you talking about?


I have literally just spent over half an hour trying to upload images so I give up, it isn't working...

Just google Fermi gamma-ray Telescope images, GALEX images (UV), and the Chandra X-ray Observatory images.

You will see just a few, the images will be falsely coloured as to bring out aspects of the image that are of relevance.

*

DuckDodgers

  • One Duck to Rule Them All
  • 5373
  • What's supposed to go here?
Re: Must Flat Earther's also subscribe to the moon hoax conspiracies?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2013, 09:27:08 AM »
The fact is that it is not the same sole as the Apollo boots. Whether it is from sneaker or boot is irrelevant.

What if it is not from footwear at all?  What if it is from a piece of equipment?  Have you eliminated all of those possibilities?
Rama, in case you aren't familiar with this particular bit, this is the supposed "sneaker" print that Tom is referring to:
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sneakers_on_the_Moon

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the tread from the lunar over boot twisted a bit.
It looks less distorted on the 2nd picture (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a15/AS15-86-11671HR.jpg) and looks to be the same width.

It looks like to boot print is sloping down from left to right.   The tread appears shallow on the left and deep on the right.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.