Religion poisons everything

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Theodolite

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Religion poisons everything
« on: April 16, 2013, 09:54:05 AM »
Every aspect of life is better without religion.
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Lorddave

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 10:02:03 AM »
False.
People poison everything. Religion is fine so long as people don't run it.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Thork

Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 10:03:05 AM »
If you are going to make shit threads like this, do it in CN.

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 10:07:06 AM »
This will be far from a shit thread, as long as it isnt just trolled.

I have asserted my position, and await an attempt to refute it, for which I am prepared to defend, and provide evidence
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 10:07:59 AM »
False.
People poison everything. Religion is fine so long as people don't run it.

Do you have an example of a religion which didnt poison everything (in your words, one that was run without people?) 
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Thork

Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2013, 10:08:20 AM »
for which I am prepared to defend, and provide evidence
You should have done that in the OP. That's why this is a shit thread. There is nothing to examine or debate.

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Lorddave

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2013, 10:12:49 AM »
False.
People poison everything. Religion is fine so long as people don't run it.

Do you have an example of a religion which didnt poison everything (in your words, one that was run without people?)
Do you know of any religion that didn't have people run it?

Although now that I think about it, I wonder what buddism poisoned....
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2013, 10:48:38 AM »
Although now that I think about it, I wonder what buddism poisoned....


I will start with one of Buddism's most harmful teachings, that enlightenment makes you morally infallible, like the pope, but more so.  Even the otherwise sensible James Austin perpetuates this insidious notion.

'Wrong' actions won't arise," he writes, "when a brain continues truly to express the self-nature intrinsic to its [transcendent] experiences." Buddhists infected with this belief can easily excuse their teachers' abusive acts as hallmarks of a "crazy wisdom" that the unenlightened cannot fathom.

But what troubles me most about Buddhism is its implication that detachment from ordinary life is the surest route to salvation. Buddha's first step toward enlightenment was his abandonment of his wife and child, and Buddhism (like Catholicism) still exalts male monasticism as the epitome of spirituality. It seems legitimate to ask whether a path that turns away from aspects of life as essential as sexuality and parenthood is truly spiritual. From this perspective, the very concept of enlightenment begins to look anti-spiritual: It suggests that life is a problem that can be solved, a cul-de-sac that can be, and should be, escaped.

Although Buddhism seems so different from religions like Christianity and Islam that it doesn't look like it should be in the same category, it still shares with other religions a very basic element: a belief that the universe is in some fashion set up for our sake -- or at least set up in a manner conducive to our needs. In Christianity this is more obvious with the belief in a a god that supposedly created the universe for our benefit. In Buddhism, it is expressed in the belief that there are cosmic laws that exist solely to process our "karma" and make it possible for us to "advance" in some fashion.

This is one of the most fundamental problems with religions -- pretty much all religions. Although it's more of a problem in some and less of a problem in others, it's still a fairly consistent problem that people are falsely taught that there is something in or above the universe that has picked them out for special protection and consideration. Our existence is a product of luck, not divine intervention, and any improvements we achieve will be due to our own hard work, not cosmic process or karma.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2013, 10:54:18 AM by Theodolite »
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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 10:55:28 AM »
for which I am prepared to defend, and provide evidence
You should have done that in the OP. That's why this is a shit thread. There is nothing to examine or debate.

It's a very broad statement, and rather than making a massive wall of text, I chose this style (which I agree is lazy); but I assure you I will make up for it in my responses
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2013, 11:05:31 AM »
I won't pretend that I had some kind of revelation, my opinion is based in listening to rational statements from other people.

Here is a great example, if you have the time, of why all religions are harmful in every situation:

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Christopher Hitchens Explains Why Religion Poisons Everything
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Genius

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2013, 11:13:01 AM »
I'll agree that religion has poisoned a lot, but it isn't necessary the sole reason. I could make a religion tomorrow and have only what I, and many others, would considered the basic rules. Don't kill, don't steal, don't stick your pp in the nice lady that doesn't want it (rape), among-st other things, but I am almost 100% certain that later generations would add to what I wrote without my permission and eventually work my religion into evil. So, yes, religion poisons a lot, but only as a result of man making it in such a way that it will do that, even if the intentions of the original founder were otherwise.

tl;dr: It's a tool for man to use, and can be, like all tools, used for good or bad.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

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Rushy

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2013, 11:14:56 AM »
I am fairly certain Taoism has never hurt anyone nor does it teach that anyone is special or that you will get some sort of mysterious afterlife goodies.

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2013, 11:28:06 AM »
I am fairly certain Taoism has never hurt anyone nor does it teach that anyone is special or that you will get some sort of mysterious afterlife goodies.

Taoism encourages antisocial behavior.  Nothing related to loving or helping your community is encouraged.  People will feel less need to stay with, and provide for their children in a Toaist belief system.

The encouragement of pacifism allows people to justify immoral actions, such as observing when people are in need of help, such as in cases of rape, ethnic cleansing, murder and other atrocities.  Another word for pacifism is appeasement.

The somewhat negative attitude towards intense emotions that speaks out of many of the ancient texts. Admittedly, people are often bothered far too much by their transient fears or anger over things that are actually of very minor importance. However, our emotions are also what makes us human (no other animals are capable of such a broad range of feelings) and they are also what makes life worth living. I would never want to be detached from my own feelings. Rather, I want to learn how to accept them better – the good ones and the bad ones – and how to use them in a way that is good for me and others.
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tausami

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, 11:37:26 AM »
I agree with LordDave. It's people that poison things, not religion. Religion is simply a means to an end.

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2013, 11:40:26 AM »
I agree with LordDave. It's people that poison things, not religion. Religion is simply a means to an end.

I think that statement ignores the fact that religion is a creation of man, which in turn, causes it to merely reflect the will of the biased flawed creator (person)
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Rushy

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2013, 11:50:57 AM »
Taoism encourages antisocial behavior.  Nothing related to loving or helping your community is encouraged.  People will feel less need to stay with, and provide for their children in a Toaist belief system.

I've reduced you to making things up, wonderful.

The encouragement of pacifism allows people to justify immoral actions, such as observing when people are in need of help, such as in cases of rape, ethnic cleansing, murder and other atrocities.  Another word for pacifism is appeasement.

Taoism doesn't encourage pacifism. Why are you making things up?

The somewhat negative attitude towards intense emotions that speaks out of many of the ancient texts. Admittedly, people are often bothered far too much by their transient fears or anger over things that are actually of very minor importance. However, our emotions are also what makes us human (no other animals are capable of such a broad range of feelings) and they are also what makes life worth living. I would never want to be detached from my own feelings. Rather, I want to learn how to accept them better – the good ones and the bad ones – and how to use them in a way that is good for me and others.

If you are often angered by little inconvenciences, then you should seek help from a psychiatrist, because something is wrong with you. Also, saying no other animal is capable of feeling similar emotion is ignorant. Humans are not special.

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Tausami

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2013, 11:53:48 AM »
I agree with LordDave. It's people that poison things, not religion. Religion is simply a means to an end.

I think that statement ignores the fact that religion is a creation of man, which in turn, causes it to merely reflect the will of the biased flawed creator (person)

The spaghetti I'm eating is also a creation of man, and therefore merely reflects the will of it's biased, flawed creator. If I choke on it and die, that's my own damn fault and not the fault of the spaghetti.

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Lorddave

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2013, 01:44:50 PM »
Davism does not poison anything.
Especially since it has one member.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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Genius

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2013, 01:51:51 PM »
Davism does not poison anything.
Especially since it has one member.

Expand on this... Davism. *interlocks fingers*
The earth is round because the space man said so.

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Rushy

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2013, 02:04:39 PM »
Davism poisons the Flat Earth Society.

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2013, 04:47:55 PM »
Government poisons everything too.  Ohmygod we should get rid of government.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Lorddave

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2013, 06:24:54 PM »
Davism does not poison anything.
Especially since it has one member.

Expand on this... Davism. *interlocks fingers*
Davism is quite simple.  Lord Dave, who is a manifestation of a segment of my personality, gives me wisdom and aids me in my thoughts.  Lord Dave is my god though he has no actual power.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.

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jason_85

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2013, 07:01:18 PM »
Yeah this really is a shit thread.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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Theodolite

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2013, 08:22:36 AM »
Thanks for your responses.  I felt like I was talking to morons on Ray Comforts Facebook page, and needed a gentle reminder ;)
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hoppy

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2013, 08:37:39 AM »
Crap thread.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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Crudblud

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2013, 06:26:39 AM »
I don't believe that religion poisons everything, if we were to take that line of reasoning we would have to dismiss thousands of years of great art, literature, music and so on from all over the world as being tainted and worthless, and I certainly cannot call worthless the works of Hieronymus Bosch and Rembrandt, of John Milton and T.S. Eliot, of Johann Sebastian Bach and Olivier Messiaen and many others.

I know this is a troll thread, but seriously, guys. Guys, seriously.

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Username

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2013, 08:40:33 AM »
How would you define brain washing?

If you tell someone something is true their whole life, is that really brainwashing, or just the customs of a region?  Can you really put any blame on them for believing something ingrained as such?  Can we really prevent people from doing this?  Should we?


Would you stop Mayans from sacrificing to their gods during their time simply because they were effectively "brainwashed" into thinking it worked?  Or was it an important and central part of their culture and removing it would make them, in a way, less "Mayan".

« Last Edit: April 22, 2013, 08:43:15 AM by John Davis »

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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2013, 09:18:16 AM »
How would you define brain washing?

If you tell someone something is true their whole life, is that really brainwashing, or just the customs of a region?  Can you really put any blame on them for believing something ingrained as such?  Can we really prevent people from doing this?  Should we?


Would you stop Mayans from sacrificing to their gods during their time simply because they were effectively "brainwashed" into thinking it worked?  Or was it an important and central part of their culture and removing it would make them, in a way, less "Mayan".

Yeah it's brainwashing.  Teaching something as truth when we don't know for sure is a mistake.  When you build something divisive as a foundation of a person, this can often have a radicalizing effect.  People will get upset when those ideas are challenged, and it will isolate them from members of society who disagree in some form.  You can't blame the individual who has been told something his or her whole life for believing that, but you can expect them to be receptive of new ideas, something that religion is often very much against.


To answer your second question, I would prefer if no one was sacrificed to anyone.  This is like asking if removing the holocaust would Europeans any less European?  It would certainly change what they are today, but it would be worth it because its a terrible part of history.

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Username

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2013, 09:27:46 AM »
if it was YOU on the mayan sacrifice hotel ( or anyone else ), would you prefer to be killed to save a butcher culture
If it was me, I would be Mayan and it would be a great honor and likely the meaning to my life. 

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Username

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Re: Religion poisons everything
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2013, 09:33:11 AM »
How would you define brain washing?

If you tell someone something is true their whole life, is that really brainwashing, or just the customs of a region?  Can you really put any blame on them for believing something ingrained as such?  Can we really prevent people from doing this?  Should we?


Would you stop Mayans from sacrificing to their gods during their time simply because they were effectively "brainwashed" into thinking it worked?  Or was it an important and central part of their culture and removing it would make them, in a way, less "Mayan".

Yeah it's brainwashing.  Teaching something as truth when we don't know for sure is a mistake.  When you build something divisive as a foundation of a person, this can often have a radicalizing effect.  People will get upset when those ideas are challenged, and it will isolate them from members of society who disagree in some form.  You can't blame the individual who has been told something his or her whole life for believing that, but you can expect them to be receptive of new ideas, something that religion is often very much against.

Then how can we teach anything?  We clearly know very little to nothing aside from abstractions, and even then their relation to the real world has tenuous grasps sometimes logically (induction for example).

And I disagree, everyone is against new ideas not just religion.  In essence, we are all pretty dumb when it comes to things, why should your point of view be preferable to theirs, other than that you hold it. 

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To answer your second question, I would prefer if no one was sacrificed to anyone.  This is like asking if removing the holocaust would Europeans any less European?  It would certainly change what they are today, but it would be worth it because its a terrible part of history.
So you would take away the sacrifices right to his own meaning to his life simply because you find sacrifice icky or morally questionable?