Poll

What is the correct distance from the earth to the moon  and the size of the moon ?

Flat Earth Measurements Of (Exact ?) 15 KM Distance /  600 M Diameter of the moon
Round Earth Measurements By  Ham Radio (approximately ? ) 237, 150 Miles Distance / 2,150 Mile Diameter of the moon
Some Other Measurements Such As The FE 3000 Mile  Distance / 30 Mile Diameter of the moon

Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.

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Puttah

  • 1860
Googleotomy, this may be the answer you were looking for:



I'm not sure if the measurement was actually made, or if it was purely theoretical, but it was most definitely flawed.

The great thing about this forum is that it has made me think of many new ways of testing the shape of the earth without bias. By that i mean, developing an experiment based on very simple principles and making no assumption about the earth's shape, taking  bunch of measurements, and asking the question "what does this tell me about the shape of the earth? Does it fit a flat earth, or a round earth?" Most of the time, it fits a round earth. The rest of the time, it fits both equally well, which makes those experiments inconclusive.

I find the measurements to find the height of the sun on a flat Earth quite amusing considering that not only does it give varying heights for different angles of measurement, but because of bendy light theory which has been proposed to account for the anomaly for why the sun seems to fall below the horizon, even the 3000 mile high sun cannot be correct since light is supposed to be bending.

So an FEer tries to make an FE calculation, comes up with a value, then makes up more theories to help answer unexplainable observations which then causes the initial calculation to be wrong because it didn't take their most recent theory into account.
Scepti, this idiocy needs to stop and it needs to stop right now. You are making a mockery of this fine forum with your poor trolling. You are a complete disgrace.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
flatorange, the Tunguska event was not caused by a meteorite, asteroid or comet. Please read carefully, and avoid such silly mistakes in the future:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58190.msg1499960.html#msg1499960

The Tunguska event proves very clearly that the Earth is actually flat.

Newspapers could be read at midnight in London, photographs could be taken outdoors in Stockholm without flash apparatus; no other meteorological/astronomical phenomenon occurred at that time in the world, no such records exist.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

This alone proves that we find ourselves in a geocentric context, where the Sun is much smaller than the Earth itself, and that my assertions are perfectly correct.

Eyewitness account:

Nizshne-Karelinskoye (465 km). Extremely bright (it was impossible to look at it) luminous body was seen rather high in the north-western sky soon after 8 a.m. It looked like a tube (cylinder) and for 10 minutes moved down to the ground. The sky was clear, but only in the side, where the body was seen, a small dark cloud was present low above the horizon. While coming to the ground, the body dispersed (flattened) and at this place a large puff of black smoke appeared. Then a flame emanated from this cloud.

500 meter altitude - 11.6 km visual obstacle
800 meter altitude - 10.4 km visual obstacle
1000 meters altitude - 9.7 km visual obstacle

At around 7:15 a.m., Tungus natives and Russian settlers in the hills northwest of Lake Baikal observed a column of bluish light, nearly as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky. About 10 minutes later, there was a flash and a loud "knocking" sound similar to artillery fire that went in short bursts spaced increasingly wider apart.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/june302008/tunguska_day_6-30-08.php

That is when Tungus natives and others living in the hills northwest of Russia's Lake Baikal reported seeing a column of bluish light, that they described as being almost as bright as the Sun, moving across the sky.

A few minutes later they reported a flash and a sound that many said resembled artillery fire. The accompanying shock wave broke windows thousands of miles away from the impact zone, and knocked countless numbers of people to the ground.


Even if we take a 560 km distance to Tunguska, and a 1 km altitude (although Lake Baikal is located at some 435 meters in elevation), the visual obstacle will measure 15.5 km, no way for anybody located at Lake Baikal to have seen the explosion itself.

Let us ascend to 1,6 km in altitude at Lake Baikal; even then, the visual obstacle will measure 13.66 km.

Even the original trajectory (10 minutes duration) was seen from London before the actual explosion:

... we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset.

Here is a diagram of what this would look like.  The large circle represents a  cutaway of a spherical Earth.  I divided the Earth into 24 evenly spaced time zones.  Point A represents an event happening.  Point B represents an observer 7 time zones away.  The line extending along the horizon at point B represents the line of view of the person at that point.  He would never see the event happen.





Maxwell's original equations fulfill the dream of each and every physicist.

They unite terrestrial gravity and electricity.

J.C. Maxwell's genius was in understanding that there are two types of electrical forces: the dextrorotatory string and the laevorotatory string.

He proved that the a regular electromagnetic wave is made up of two such scalar waves of opposite spin.


The Biefeld Brown effect demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt the correctness of the original Maxwell equations.

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

Dr. Brown experimented with umbrella and disk shaped gravitators. The umbrella devices consisted of two electrodes, one positive and one negative, with one electrode shaped like a large bowl and the other like a smaller bowl. Overall, this formed an open-air capacitor but with asymmetric electrodes, whose asymmetric electric fields generated unbalanced gravitational divergences and increased acceleration. The disk gravitators, described earlier, did the same except one electrode formed the leading edge of the disk, while the other electrode formed the body and trailing edge.

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Biefeld-Brown effect tested with Bi-Polar Tesla Coil

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Biefeld-Brown Effect


sokarul, I read your diagrams, they are wonderful. I never doubted your ability to amass disconnected bits of data, no clear idea of context, or overall cognitive goal.

What we are debating here is the existence of ether waves, not their application to spectroscopy.

Remember that light does not split into a spectrum of colors as you have assumed up until now:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1394310.html#msg1394310


The ether waves' existence is clearly proven by DePalma, Kozyrev, Brown, Tesla, Nipher (their extrarordinary experiments).

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robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Since I started this thread, and now that the method and result of the FE 3000 mile distance has been explained, I am satisfied and see no  need for further discussion, at least as far as the question of the distance from the earth to the  moon is concerned.

I must confess that the 15KM measurement is still a bit unclear.  ??? To me at least.

The original intent was just to have a comparison of all figures , with information as to how they were computed with measurements from other sources to back up the claims.

If I have made comments and have been overly critical of other results, I apologize for same and retract them and only submit those in reference to the "Ham Radio" Measurements.

Let the distances of 237,150 Miles ; 3000 Miles and I5 Kilometers stand for comparison. Readers of this subject are free to post their opinion on which figure they think is correct on the poll.

However, I realize that this subject could go on and on. But once again. : I'm Satisfied ! Mission Accomplished ! ;D

P.S. I am fond of Italian Cuisine, but there is such a thing as too much pasta.  ;D
« Last Edit: June 01, 2013, 09:34:21 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
...


The Biefeld Brown effect demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt the correctness of the original Maxwell equations.

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

Dr. Brown experimented with umbrella and disk shaped gravitators. The umbrella devices consisted of two electrodes, one positive and one negative, with one electrode shaped like a large bowl and the other like a smaller bowl. Overall, this formed an open-air capacitor but with asymmetric electrodes, whose asymmetric electric fields generated unbalanced gravitational divergences and increased acceleration. The disk gravitators, described earlier, did the same except one electrode formed the leading edge of the disk, while the other electrode formed the body and trailing edge.

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Biefeld-Brown effect tested with Bi-Polar Tesla Coil

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Biefeld-Brown Effect
For what the Biefeld-brown effect really is read here.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld-Brown_effect


Quote
sokarul, I read your diagrams, they are wonderful. I never doubted your ability to amass disconnected bits of data, no clear idea of context, or overall cognitive goal.
I get it, science is over your head. They are not diagrams, they are what the ICP-OES was checking for. Those numbers are wavelengths in nm. You cannot say that electromagnetic waves are really ether waves when I use real EM waves all the time. Not in 1910, but right now.

Quote
What we are debating here is the existence of ether waves, not their application to spectroscopy.
I would love to hear how you think different types of spectroscopy can work in your theory.

Quote
Remember that light does not split into a spectrum of colors as you have assumed up until now:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1394310.html#msg1394310
Scientific instruments show you to be incorrect. So linking to your own argument doesn't do anything. You are going to need to bring a better argument against spectroscopy.

Quote
The ether waves' existence is clearly proven by DePalma, Kozyrev, Brown, Tesla, Nipher (their extrarordinary experiments).
DePalma never made that claim. Tesla never made that claim. All he did was use a different type of wave. Brown did make that claim and then it was retracted. It is known what he did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_ioniser . I must have missed what Kozyrev and Nipher did, but I don't care.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
You have not done anything out of the ordinary to access the longitudinal waves.

Of course you will get normal results (the truncated Maxwell equations).

Out of the ordinary = double torsion (DePalma spinning ball, Schauberger turbine), sound (cymatics) or electrical tension (Biefeld-Brown effect).

I am sorry to disappoint your horrendous homework on the Biefeld Brown effect:

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.

Brown did not retract anything, you are dreaming.

BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

The intensity or magnitude of the effect is determined by five known factors, namely:

1) The separation of the plates of the condenser - the closer the plates, the greater the effect.

2) The ability of the material between the plates to store electrical energy in the form of elastic stress. A measure of this ability is called the 'K' factor of the material. The higher the 'K', the greater the Biefeld-Brown effect.

3) The area of the condenser plates - the greater area giving the greater effect.

4) The voltage difference between the plates - the greater the voltage, the greater the effect.

5) The mass of the material between the plates - the greater the mass, the greater the effect.

http://montalk.net/science/84/the-biefeld-brown-effect

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Thomas_Townsend_Brown

http://www.doctorkoontz.com/Antigravity/Townsend_Brown/page90.html


T. Townsend Brown, of the greatest American physicists of the 20th century, continued the work done by Dr. Francis Nipher, electricity can alter gravitation attraction -

http://www.rexresearch.com/nipher/nipher1.htm



A ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart. Those who attribute this to an aerodynamic or atmospheric effect, please note that it works just as well in a vacuum. Also note, this effect has since been verified by other [enlightened] researchers. The decrease in weight of the spinning ball - anti-gravity - can explain why the spinning object goes higher and falls faster than the identical non-rotating control. Current thinking is that there is no special interaction between rotation and gravity. The behavior of rotating objects is simply the addition of ether energy to whatever motion the rotating object is making.

You tried this bullshit before and it did not work.

"Non spinning ball followed predicted path established by gravity"?  He never made the claim "attractive gravity" is now invalid due to his experiment.

But he does.

Basically the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control; present a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood -- on the basis of radically new concepts in physics -- concepts so radical...

Do you understand English? The spinning ball went higher than the identical non-rotating  ball, and fell faster too, a clear violation of the law of attractive gravity.


*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
You have not done anything out of the ordinary to access the longitudinal waves.

Of course you will get normal results (the truncated Maxwell equations).

Out of the ordinary = double torsion (DePalma spinning ball, Schauberger turbine), sound (cymatics) or electrical tension (Biefeld-Brown effect).

I am sorry to disappoint your horrendous homework on the Biefeld Brown effect:

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.

Brown did not retract anything, you are dreaming.

BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

The intensity or magnitude of the effect is determined by five known factors, namely:

1) The separation of the plates of the condenser - the closer the plates, the greater the effect.

2) The ability of the material between the plates to store electrical energy in the form of elastic stress. A measure of this ability is called the 'K' factor of the material. The higher the 'K', the greater the Biefeld-Brown effect.

3) The area of the condenser plates - the greater area giving the greater effect.

4) The voltage difference between the plates - the greater the voltage, the greater the effect.

5) The mass of the material between the plates - the greater the mass, the greater the effect.


...



T. Townsend Brown, of the greatest American physicists of the 20th century, continued the work done by Dr. Francis Nipher, electricity can alter gravitation attraction -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld%E2%80%93Brown_effect
http://www.sharperimage.com/si/view/category/Ionic-Breeze-Air-Purifier/100280?mainCatId=


Quote


A ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart. Those who attribute this to an aerodynamic or atmospheric effect, please note that it works just as well in a vacuum. Also note, this effect has since been verified by other [enlightened] researchers. The decrease in weight of the spinning ball - anti-gravity - can explain why the spinning object goes higher and falls faster than the identical non-rotating control. Current thinking is that there is no special interaction between rotation and gravity. The behavior of rotating objects is simply the addition of ether energy to whatever motion the rotating object is making.

You tried this bullshit before and it did not work.

"Non spinning ball followed predicted path established by gravity"?  He never made the claim "attractive gravity" is now invalid due to his experiment.

But he does.

Basically the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control; present a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood -- on the basis of radically new concepts in physics -- concepts so radical...

Do you understand English? The spinning ball went higher than the identical non-rotating  ball, and fell faster too, a clear violation of the law of attractive gravity.
Yeah gyroscopes do strange things.
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">
You are played out.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Admittedly, this subject has been going on far too long, but I was hoping that Sandokhan would at least take up the suggestion and invitation to contact  ARRL and Mc Donald Observatory for information and discussion on the distance from the earth to the moon.

So far I haven't seen any replies. There are certainly no problems in contacting both sources for information and discussion , either online, by telephone,or in person. Was it too much to suggest those contacts , Sandokhan ?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2013, 07:28:45 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Another 2 weeks have gone by and still no reply from sandokhan.  I guess he really is played out.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 02:20:35 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
The Flat Earth Society Forum has certainly been a source of education. :)

A few things I have learned.:

Most supporters of  FE seem to fall into a pattern. :

I won't call out any specific names.:
Some can't even do simple math, or pretend so.
Some can't even make sensible replies or posts or pretend so.
Some add endless material which makes no sense to the subject at hand. (Some have called it "pasta".)
There is usually an attempt to "derail" a subject, no matter how simple it may be.
Nothing...or being very generous - very little....... in "Flat Earth Theory" seems to make any sense.
There are probably a lot of other details  to add. It would be interesting to see others.

I suppose the Flat Earth Society should be thanked for this website, if only for the amusement and
entertainment value. I rest on my signature line as far as the education value is concerned.

And finally the forum is an interesting place to go and look up things for yourself even in FE seems to be unwilling or unable to do it for themselves.

I notice the Poll is running rather heavily in favor of the "Ham Radio Operator Measurements" at this time. I don't know if this proves anything or not, but it has proved interesting.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
ITT: RErs confuse ham radio with RADAR and assume some guy in his shed can bounce signals off the moon. In actual fact you need a dish the size of football field and a small power station to yourself, but its something you can do at home and there isn't a sniff of conspiracy about this tall tale.  ::)

Question, if you can bounce radio off the moon, why do you lose reception in a valley?

I nominate that post  for the dumbest thing I have ever seen on this forum. Radio and Radar are exactly the same principle on this topic. I thought everyone knew that RADAR was simply an acronym for "Radio Detection and Ranging" which of course uses radio waves. (There was a lot of "pasta" trying to confuse radio waves as being some other kind of waves). And anyone who reads the newspapers would have seen articles from time to time about amateur radio operators measuring the distance from the earth to the moon. FE members seem to be woefully uninformed on anything (and I suppose that means everything) that doesn't fit into the "Flat Earth Theory" category. And all this aside from values which are nothing new . Et cetera, et cetera and so forth.

Laissez les bon temps rouler !
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 08:26:25 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
ITT: RErs confuse ham radio with RADAR and assume some guy in his shed can bounce signals off the moon. In actual fact you need a dish the size of football field and a small power station to yourself, but its something you can do at home and there isn't a sniff of conspiracy about this tall tale.  ::)

Question, if you can bounce radio off the moon, why do you lose reception in a valley?

I nominate that post  for the dumbest thing I have ever seen on this forum. Radio and Radar are exactly the same principle on this topic. I thought everyone knew that RADAR was simply an acronym for "Radio Detection and Ranging" which of course uses radio waves. (There was a lot of "pasta" trying to confuse radio waves as being some other kind of waves). And anyone who reads the newspapers would have seen articles from time to time about amateur radio operators measuring the distance from the earth to the moon. FE members seem to be woefully uninformed on anything (and I suppose that means everything) that doesn't fit into the "Flat Earth Theory" category. And all this aside from values which are nothing new . Et cetera, et cetera and so forth.

Laissez les bon temps rouler !

I'm admittedly making a nuisance of myself by constantly posting from time to time , but I am still awaiting some information from sandokhan to see if he has taken up on my suggestion for contacting The American Radio League or Mc Donald Observatory in regard to a discussion of the differences between their measurements versus The Flat Earth Society specifically in reference to The distance from the earth to the moon and the size of the moon. ???

Since sandokhan hasn't bothered to do so, here is an excerpt .:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_experiment
"Nonetheless, the Earth-Moon distance has been measured with increasing accuracy for more than 35 years. The distance continually changes for a number of reasons, but averages about 384,467 kilometers (238,897 miles)."
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:56:12 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
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  • I have artificial intelligence
I hope you realize that people do not want to answer you when you act like an ass.  I am just wondering since you do it a  lot.   :-\

?

robintex

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If I may say so this is clearly a case of the kettle calling the pot black.

I consider your reply very vulgar and I believe an apology is in order.

I sincerely hope you have no official capacity with the Flat Earth Society as your reply is very vulgar, unprofessional and a discredit to the organization .

All I have asked for is simply a reply from Mr. Sandokhan as to his discussions with the American Radio Relay League and/or Mc Donald Observatory in reference to the question of the Distance from the Earth to the Moon. He seems quite adept at long postings and the results of his contacts would be interesting IMHO.

I have suggested this as courteously as possible. It is merely a suggestion as well as  a cordial invitation.

I have been in contact with both sources myself.
Both of these organizations are open to correspondence from non-members and are glad for discussions and answers to questions .

I just post from time to time to keep up on  the progress of this topic and to see if I have received the courtesy of a reply from Mr. Sandokhan....Which, as of this date, I have not. 

If this is truly an open forum website this should be a common courtesy extended to all .
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 03:59:54 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
I'm going to keep making a nuisance of myself until I get an answer from sandokhan. :D

I have contacted the ARRL to verify the results of the "Ham Radio Moon Bounce" measurements and then I contacted Mc Donald Observatory to see if they coincide. The measurements by "Ham Radio Moon Bounce" are not as accurate as those from Mc Donald Observation but they are close enough for comparison.

All I am asking is for Mr. Sandokhan to call the ARRL and Mc Donald Observation to discuss the differerences in the measurements. It is not necessary to contact the ARRL or Mc Donald Observatory. Any local Amateur Radio Club can verify their measurements and any Observatory can confirm their measurements for comparison with yours,  Mr. Sandokhan. Any High School or College could probably supply the information, too.

Nothing could be simpler.

FES can probably write this off as a mass conspiracy of all the Astronomical Observatories in the world and all the Amateur Radio Operators in the world anyway at all of them arriving at the same figure.  ;D

Cordially yours,
Googleotomy
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

I hope you realize that people do not want to answer you when you act like an ass.  I am just wondering since you do it a  lot.   :-\

He's only doing so because people here say they are after the truth. Googleotomy wants sandokhan to show a desire to investigate the matter at hand.

Of course people who do research and investigate are really just asses.  It's better and kinder to just not care.
Quote from: Heiwa
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

?

robintex

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And I have presented the case for the 237,150 miles and seen an illustration explaining the 3,000
miles distance from the earth to the moon and would really like to stop making a nuisance of myself (or whatever you want to call me ) by posting over and over.

But I really would like to see some explanation for the 15 kilometer distance before I give up. ???

I've given up on any further response from sandokhan. ;D :'(
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

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I hope you realize that people do not want to answer you when you act like an ass.  I am just wondering since you do it a  lot.   :-\

He's only doing so because people here say they are after the truth. Googleotomy wants sandokhan to show a desire to investigate the matter at hand.

Of course people who do research and investigate are really just asses.  It's better and kinder to just not care.

Thank you flatorange that  was the sole intent of my post.

EDITED 12 JULY 2013 : I must confess this is purely out of a personal interest . This subject is just my one "pet project" and my sole contribution to the Flat Earth Society Forum.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 05:00:23 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
ITT: RErs confuse ham radio with RADAR and assume some guy in his shed can bounce signals off the moon. In actual fact you need a dish the size of football field and a small power station to yourself, but its something you can do at home and there isn't a sniff of conspiracy about this tall tale.  ::)

Question, if you can bounce radio off the moon, why do you lose reception in a valley?

I will freely, honestly and truthfully state and admit  that I am "bumping" this thread again. ;D

But just an explanation on some basic antenna theory for thork.:

As for the size of an antenna for the "moon bounce" operations.:

The frequencies used for the "moon bounce" by the amateur radio operators are in the Ultra High Frequency range such as 432 Megaherz. Wave length is inverse to frequency, so the wave lengths are very short  and thus antennas do not have to be "a dish the size of a football field."

As you go higher in frequencies to the microwave range - frequencies in the Gigahertz range - the wave lengths become even smaller and you can make even smaller antennas. The beauty about this is that you can make an antenna with higher "gain" or the ability to amplify the power of the transmitter or the sensitivity of the receiver in a smaller space. You can "stack" many of these small antennas to get higher "gain" than just a simple one element antenna.

Amateur radio operators also used radio frequency amplifiers to amplify the small amount of signal received from the "moon bounce" too. All of this is admittedly a rather long explanation of how the "hams" - amateur radio operators are able to do the "moon bounce" - admittedly to no little expense - but within range of some of the more affluent members of the hobby.

All of this was in reference to refute thork's statement about the size of antennas needed to send a signal to the moon and receive the reflection of that signal on the earth, measure the time and compute the distance to the moon. Admittedly not as accurate as the laser beam/reflector measurement of the astronomical observatories - which have now measured the distance within centimeters - but well within the measurements that have been well established facts for years.

In short, you don't need an antenna "the size of a football field" for "moon bounce." Also "moon bounce" and radar are using exactly the same principle - bouncing radio waves off objects to measure the distance.

This might be an exercise to see what the FE response might be in trying to refute or de-bunk this posting. 

BTW :
To Sandokhan and thork:
Have you visited or written to any astronomical observatories or amateur radio organization in reference to the distance from the earth to the moon ?
Suggestions:
Mc Donald Observatory, Fort Davis, Texas, USA
American Radio Relay League, Newington, Connecticut, USA


EDITED : 17 AUGUST 2013.
P.S. I might add that hundreds of amateur radio operators have probably done "moon bounce" at one time or another. They have all observed the times for a signal to be sent and received. They have all been close to the same amount of time. Thus the same distance from the earth to the moon. It is definitely not 3000 miles nor is it 15 kilometers. It is definitely somewhere in the order of 237,150 miles. This can be verified by many measurements going back in time to the present measurements using laser beams which have measured the distance to within a few centimeters.

It is no wonder there have been no further posts from FE's.

EDITED: 18 AUGUST 2013.
I will apologize if I seem to keep coming back to this thread, but maybe some facts on radio antenna might be of interest to thork and others. I'm not an expert but I have had some experience on radio antennas. Also the more "elements" or separate antennas you can make in an "array" or a combination of these basic antennas, you can focus the beam of the radio waves  into a smaller "pattern" and they will effectively be more powerful in the case of the transmitted signal or more sensitive in the case of the received signal. That is why some of those ham radio antennas are so complicated with so many "elements" and why there are such large "reflectors" on those radar antennas.

I saw this on another post : Quote - "Your turn, FE."- Unquote
« Last Edit: August 18, 2013, 06:03:21 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
"Bumped" again.

Still waiting for a reply from thork and sandokhan or any other FE..
I have visited or been in touch with both sources.
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Son of Orospu

  • Jura's b*tch and proud of it!
  • Planar Moderator
  • 37834
  • I have artificial intelligence
Why don't you just go back to the beginning and actually read the replies you have already gotten?  This thread is getting old.

Why don't you just go back to the beginning and actually read the replies you have already gotten?  This thread is getting old.
It's 19 pages of FEers derailing the thread and avoiding the question (redundant?) First it was terrible math, then questioning whether the moon even exists, and then a whole bunch on the nature of radio waves.

But you're right, this thread is old, and still unanswered. You can kill it by answering it.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Why don't you just go back to the beginning and actually read the replies you have already gotten?  This thread is getting old.
It's 19 pages of FEers derailing the thread and avoiding the question (redundant?) First it was terrible math, then questioning whether the moon even exists, and then a whole bunch on the nature of radio waves.

But you're right, this thread is old, and still unanswered. You can kill it by answering it.

I really ought to stop . It's a hopeless case. Might as well give it up. About to be expected.
Moderator , you can put this in the UCOS files if  you wish .  ;D
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 02:15:29 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #382 on: September 08, 2013, 05:53:33 PM »
I know, I know. ;D But I still haven't gotten any answers from an FE. :P

So I'll jest a keep on a bumpin' this thread from time to time. Yee Haw !

Also, as an amateur radio operator, I resent the snide remarks from FE's about Ham Radio Operators. And it's rather amusing to notice their asinine remarks and total ignorance of how radio waves work. Not only on this thread but I have seen it in on some other threads.

IMHO that's what makes this website interesting.

I suppose this will be considered "low posting" or whatever you want to call it  to FE moderators. But it seems this is OK for FE's but not for RE's, even if the RE's are posting just pure facts and evidence.

I think the poll speaks for itself so far. Come on, FE's let's get some more votes from you !

I suppose I really don't need any more answers. RE's have already posted how they got their measurements . The RE's also had to post how the FE's got their measurements. Maybe that should have been enough. But it might be interesting to "get it straight from the horse's mouth"....From an FE direct, that is. Maybe the FE answer is really that old word called "denial."... Or "silence."  ???

An' keep on a'makin a nuisance of mahself to the FE's.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 06:33:29 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #383 on: September 09, 2013, 07:45:52 PM »
No type of radio wave is powerful enough to reach the moon, this thread is wrong and  I don't even have to read it, thanks for making it easy, RE'ers.

?

REphoenix

  • 984
  • Round Earther
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #384 on: September 09, 2013, 07:48:35 PM »
No type of radio wave is powerful enough to reach the moon, this thread is wrong and  I don't even have to read it, thanks for making it easy, RE'ers.
What did you base this claim on?
Anyone with a phoenix avatar is clearly amazing.

?

Pyrolizard

  • 699
  • The Militant Skeptic
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #385 on: September 09, 2013, 07:50:22 PM »
No type of radio wave is powerful enough to reach the moon, this thread is wrong and  I don't even have to read it, thanks for making it easy, RE'ers.
What did you base this claim on?

Ignore him, Phoenix.  He's obviously trolling, and unlike EJ, he's not going away.
Quote from: Shmeggley
Wherever someone is wrong on the internet, Pyrolizard will be there!

Quote from: Excelsior John
I dont care about the majority I care about Obama.
Let it always be known that Excelsior John is against democracy.

*

Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #386 on: September 09, 2013, 07:53:51 PM »
What did you base this claim on?

Do you see any radio communication being used in space? Even satellites supposedly use microwaves and NASA ensures that their moon measurements are light-spectrum based. Even they are not profoundly uneducated enough to think radio waves can reach the moon, because everyone who knows what a radiowave is would scoff at the idea.


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Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #387 on: September 09, 2013, 07:56:56 PM »
What did you base this claim on?

Do you see any radio communication being used in space? Even satellites supposedly use microwaves and NASA ensures that their moon measurements are light-spectrum based. Even they are not profoundly uneducated enough to think radio waves can reach the moon, because everyone who knows what a radiowave is would scoff at the idea.

Wow. Just, wow. It's going to take me while to come to terms with this level of stupid.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 08:12:57 PM by Scintific Method »
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #388 on: September 09, 2013, 08:06:21 PM »
What did you base this claim on?

Do you see any radio communication being used in space? Even satellites supposedly use microwaves and NASA ensures that their moon measurements are light-spectrum based. Even they are not profoundly uneducated enough to think radio waves can reach the moon, because everyone who knows what a radiowave is would scoff at the idea.
*sigh*
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Rushy

  • 8971
Re: Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.
« Reply #389 on: September 09, 2013, 08:10:44 PM »
Markjo, if I make a distinction between microwave and radio wave, then obviously I'm excluding any overlapping spectra.