Poll

What is the correct distance from the earth to the moon  and the size of the moon ?

Flat Earth Measurements Of (Exact ?) 15 KM Distance /  600 M Diameter of the moon
Round Earth Measurements By  Ham Radio (approximately ? ) 237, 150 Miles Distance / 2,150 Mile Diameter of the moon
Some Other Measurements Such As The FE 3000 Mile  Distance / 30 Mile Diameter of the moon

Distance from the Earth to the Moon ? Ham Radio vs. Flat Earth Measurements.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Sandokhan, for you to accuse sokarul, or anyone else for that matter, of making low content posts is really laughable. I have seen you post the exact same thing like 50 times in this thread alone. All you do whenever anyone asks you to explain yourself is post the same pictures and text blocks you have already posted. If that's not low content I don't know what is.

You've been asked repeatedly to produce your calculations for the 15km distance and 600m diameter of the Sun and have not done so once. In fact you say you have done so, and then just point to 2 more of your endless copypasta threads. Really dishonest.

I'm glad you admit now that the 15km is only your estimate and not calculated at all. As you have stated it is merely a guess based on your assumption that the Sun orbits the Earth and therefore must be smaller. It's also funny how you then judge the Sun to be at 15km because of some aircraft that has been up to 12-13km, then you turn around and say that altitude measurements are inherently flawed and the true altitude is much lower. So maybe you should be saying the Sun is only, what, 2-3 km up? Of course you'll never post a calculation of how high aircraft really are based on their stated altitude because you have no idea. Hilarious!

Finally, here's a little calculation based on your "excellent" estimates of the Sun's diameter and distance.

Sun's angular diameter based on 600m actual diameter and 15,000m distance:

Ɵ= Sun's apparent angular diameter seen from Earth's surface

Ɵ = sin-1(600/15000)

Ɵ = sin-1(0.04)

Ɵ = 2.3°

So the Sun according to your numbers should appear to span about 2.3° in the sky. Actual angular diameter observed is 0.5°, less then 1/4 of what I calculated.

Now I know you will say that the "aether density" is a factor in this, but since you don't know how the density changes (or that there even is an aether) this is just more speculation on your part. I think it's far more likely that your numbers are wrong. Which makes sense because I think you just made them up to begin with.  ;D



Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
In the RE vision of science, Maxwell's original set of equations which unify gravity and electricity become "low content posts".  The application of Gauss' Easter formula to the fundamental problem of the axial precessional hoax, becomes "low content posting".  The classic Bruce DePalma spinning ball experiment is again "low content posting".


In 1897, Lord Kelvin visited New York and stopped at the Tesla laboratory where Tesla "entertained him with demonstrations in support of my wireless theory."

Suddenly [Kelvin] remarked with evident astonishment:

'Then you are not making use of Hertz waves?' ’Certainly not’, I replied, ’these are radiations.’... "I can never forget the magic change that came over the illustrious philosopher the moment he freed himself from that erroneous impression.
 
The skeptic who would not believe was suddenly transformed into the warmest of supporters. He parted from me not only truly convinced of the scientific soundness of the idea but strongly express his confidence in its success." N. Tesla


What will it take for the RE to understand that Tesla did not use Hertzian waves to transmit energy?

"... It is too noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of TRUE CONDUCTION AND IS NOT TO BE CONFOUNDED WITH THE PHENOMENA OF ELECTRICAL RADIATION which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically IMPOSSIBLE THE TRANSMISSION OF ANY APPRECIABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO SUCH DISTANCES as are of practical importance. ..."

Obviously, Nikola Tesla accentuates that his "energy-transfer-waves" ARE NOT HERTZIAN !!!.
 
   "... It is necessary to employ oscillations in which the rate of radiation of energy into space IN THE FORM OF HERTZIAN OR ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES IS VERY SMALL. "


How is it possible to still have a debate given the results of the DePalma spinning ball experiment, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that terrestrial gravity is caused by the pressure exerted by the ether waves used by Tesla?


An explosion which occurred at some 7 km in altitude in Siberia was observed instantaneously across Europe: newspapers could be read at midnight in London, photographs could be taken outdoors in Stockholm without flash apparatus.

... we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset.

And this refers to the initial trajectory path as well, which took place between 7:00 - 7:15 am (local time).


It proves clearly that the Earth DOES NOT orbit the Sun: an explosion which occurred at some 7 km in the atmosphere at Tunguska, was seen all the way from London: we are told that the rays of light from the Sun (and it was morning over Siberia on June 30, at 7:20 am) cannot reach, for example, London, at the same time, due to the curvature; then NOTHING could have been observed/seen from Tunguska as well on a globe; an explosion on one side of a globe could not possibly influence in any way visual observations on the other side of the same globe; the visual range limit for the Tunguska explosion, on that cloudless day, is just 400 km.

Therefore, the estimate of 15 km is a very sound one: we start with the absolute fact that the surface of the Earth is flat, that the Earth does not orbit the Sun at all and we arrive at the conclusions:

In a geocentric context the Sun IS MUCH SMALLER THAN THE EARTH ITSELF.

How much smaller can be determined by direct observations, such as the solar transit videos/photos.

The initial Explorer missions went nowhere beyond some 13 km: this is the starting point also for an estimate of the altitude at which the Sun really orbits.

The aether density was proven long ago by the classic experiment of G. Airy in 1871.

Therefore direct visual angle measurements/calculations must be flawed to start with given the fact that we simply do not know the refractive index of the aether/ether waves.


What we do have at our disposal are the following undeniable facts:

1. Maxwell's original equations prove that gravity and electricity are one and the same phenomenon; that the speed of light is a variable and not a constant.

2. DePalma's spinning ball experiment proves clearly the existence of ether waves which do cause the phenomenon known as terrestrial gravity.

3. The Tunguska event proves that the surface of the Earth is flat, and that the Sun orbits above this flat earth.

4. N. Tesla used non-hertzian waves to transmit energy, carefully eliminating any hertzian ripples from his experiments.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
In the RE vision of science, Maxwell's original set of equations which unify gravity and electricity become "low content posts".  The application of Gauss' Easter formula to the fundamental problem of the axial precessional hoax, becomes "low content posting".  The classic Bruce DePalma spinning ball experiment is again "low content posting".


In 1897, Lord Kelvin visited New York and stopped at the Tesla laboratory where Tesla "entertained him with demonstrations in support of my wireless theory."

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...


When you repeat the same arguments and copy paste the same text over and over, while ignoring questions to explain why these facts are even relevant, then yes, I'm afraid that's low content. How many times did you post that Black Sun picture when asked why the Black Sun picture supported your argument? Insisting that you are right is not an argument. Restating your case when asked for clarification is not an argument.

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The initial Explorer missions went nowhere beyond some 13 km: this is the starting point also for an estimate of the altitude at which the Sun really orbits.

Again, you accept the 13km but dispute how this altitude was measured, so I don't know why you bother repeating it.

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The aether density was proven long ago by the classic experiment of G. Airy in 1871.

Therefore direct visual angle measurements/calculations must be flawed to start with given the fact that we simply do not know the refractive index of the aether/ether waves.

Airy calculated the Earth's, density, and he was inaccurate. His ether drift experiments obtained a negative result. Even if he had obtained an "ether density" value, that fact that you don't know what it is doesn't help your argument.

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1. Maxwell's original equations prove that gravity and electricity are one and the same phenomenon; that the speed of light is a variable and not a constant.

Maxwell's equations do no such thing that I'm aware of. Please explain how you reached this conclusion.

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2. DePalma's spinning ball experiment proves clearly the existence of ether waves which do cause the phenomenon known as terrestrial gravity.

DePalma's spinning ball experiment has been replicated and different results were obtained. Even based on DePalma's results, this does not prove the existence of ether or ether waves at least to me. Please show the relation between DePalma's results and your conclusion.

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3. The Tunguska event proves that the surface of the Earth is flat, and that the Sun orbits above this flat earth.

The Tunguska event shows that light can be visible from an aerial explosion over a much greater than expected distance. It's a long way from this, against a lot of opposing evidence, to proving the Earth is flat. Even if the Earth had to be flat for this to happen I don't see what this has to do with the Sun. You get that part of your model from other assumptions you make, but Tunguska doesn't prove anything about the Sun itself.

Quote
4. N. Tesla used non-hertzian waves to transmit energy, carefully eliminating any hertzian ripples from his experiments.

Tesla's achievements in wireless power transmission are well understood today without the need for ether or ether waves. Please show how Tesla's wireless power transmission can only be explained in terms of an ether.

Arguing with you is tiring Sandokhan, but not for the reasons you might think. If you resort to any more copy paste, repetition of your arguments without clarification, or bringing in yet another irrelevant conspiracy theory, I'll consider you to have conceded the argument, and that as I suspected you don't know what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 01:38:10 PM by Shmeggley »
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
You are dodging the same issues all over again by innocently asking for explanations even though they were clearly offerred to you multiple times.

The Black Sun photographs prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there are no 384,000 km between the Earth and the Moon: no RE has ever been able to show otherwise, perhaps you would like me to bring back these photographs.


You have no understanding of either the truncated or the original Maxwell equations.

Please read the following very carefully so that you can upgrade your catastrophic knowledge of the true history of e/m vs. ether waves controversy.

What electrical engineers work with today, is a subset of a higher-topology EM. The four "Maxwell's Equations" taught today in electrical engineering are actually an over-simplified subset of Maxwell's original work. The pruning was done by Oliver Heaviside in the late 19th century; Heaviside took Maxwell's original equations, written in Hamilton's quaternions (related to what we nowadays call spinors), and "simplified" them by lopping off the scalar part of the complex numbers, leaving the easy-to-work-with vector part intact-- which radio engineers loved.

When Heaviside threw out the scalar part of the quaternionic EM equation, he unknowingly threw out the possibility of unifying gravitation with electromagnetism-- which has been a holy grail for scientists since Einstein himself wrestled with the problem. That's because the scalar part of the quaternion was the part that captured or modeled the "stress on the aether"-- which leads to curving/warping spacetime a la Einstein. We CAN unify gravity with EM, and convert back and forth between them, if we understand how vectors and scalars relate to one another and what the ramifications are.

Do you understand english, shmeggley? Is this clear enough for you?


 ... In discarding the scalar component of the quaternion, Heaviside and Gibbs unwittingly discarded the unified EM/G [electromagnetic/ gravitational] portion of Maxwell's theory that arises when the translation/directional components of two interacting quaternions reduce to zero, but the scalar resultant remains and infolds a deterministic, dynamic structure that is a function of oppositive directional/translational components. In the infolding of EM energy inside a scalar potential, a structured scalar potential results, almost precisely as later shown by Whittaker but unnoticed by the scientific community. The simple vector equations produced by Heaviside and Gibbs captured only that subset of Maxwell's theory where EM and gravitation are mutually exclusive. In that subset, electromagnetic circuits and equipment will not ever, and cannot ever, produce gravitational or inertial effects in materials and equipment.

Neither Lorentz nor Einstein seemed to have been aware of the contents of Maxwell‟s original papers, while both of them seemed to be under the impression that they were fixing something that wasn‟t broken in the first place. In doing so, Einstein managed to drop the luminiferous aether out of physics altogether, claiming that he was basing his investigation on what he had read in the so-called „Maxwell-Hertz equations for empty space‟! But whatever these Maxwell-Hertz equations might have been, they certainly can‟t have been Maxwell‟s original equations.


According to other observers, Heaviside actually felt that Maxwell's use of quaternions and their description of the "potentials" of space was "... mystical, and should be murdered from the theory ..." which -- by drastically editing Maxwell's original work after the latter's untimely death (from cancer), excising the scalar component of the quaternions and eliminating the hyperspatial characteristics of the directional (vector) components -- Oliver Heaviside effectively accomplished singlehanded.

In a tragedy for science (if not for society in general) whose outlines we are only now beginning to appreciate, after Maxwell's death, two other 19th Century "mathematical physicists" -- Oliver Heaviside and William Gibbs -- "streamlined" Maxwell's original equations down to four simple (if woefully incomplete!) expressions. Because Heaviside openly felt the quaternions were "an abomination" -- never fully understanding the linkage between the critical scalar and vector components in Maxwell's use of them to describe the potentials of empty space ("apples and oranges," he termed them) -- he eliminated over 200 quaternions from Maxwell's original theory in his attempted "simplification."

This means, of course, that the four surviving "classic" Maxwell's Equations -- which appear in every electrical and physics text the world over, as the underpinnings of all 20th Century electrical and electromagnetic engineering, from radio to radar, from television to computer science, if not inclusive of every "hard" science from physics to chemistry to astrophysics that deals with electromagnetic radiative processes -- never appeared in any original Maxwell' paper or treatise!


On the basis of these original Maxwell equations, Dr. Francis Nipher proved the fact that terrestrial gravity is absolutely linked to electrical tension:

Professor Francis Nipher supplies experimental evidence that gravitational attraction can not only be suspended or nullified by the electrical current, but it actually can be transformed into "gravitational repulsion"!

http://www.rexresearch.com/nipher/nipher1.htm

Very carefully performed experiments which confirm that electricity alters the gravitational force upon a body thus confirming Maxwell's scalar part the original quaternionic equations: the unification of terrestrial gravity with electromagnetism.


Let us go back to the DePalma experiment.

DePalma and his assistants were experts for photograph recording of high speed motions. In 1974 they studied parabolic curves of bodies thrown upward, using ball bearings and catapults. Ball bearings were put into rotation before start and also not-rotating likely objects were used for comparison. In 1977 these experiments were repeated by most precisely working equipment and Bruce DePalma published paper entitled ´Understanding the Dropping of the Spinning Ball Experiment´. His astonishment clearly is expressed, e.g. by this section:

Basically the spinning object going higher than the identical non-rotating control with the same initial velocity, and, then falling faster than the identical non-rotating control; present a dilemma which can only be resolved or understood -- on the basis of radically new concepts in physics -- concepts so radical that only the heretofore un-understood results of other experiments, (the elastic collision of a rotating and an identical non- rotating object, et al.), and new conceptions of physics growing out of the many discussions and correspondence pertaining to rotation, inertia, gravity, and motion in general.

It CANNOT be explained without the ether concept: the flagrant violation of Newton's laws, means that for the same mass, the same supposed law of universal gravitation, the spinning ball actually weighed less.

A ball spinning at 27,000 RPM and a non-spinning ball were catapulted side-by-side with equal momentum and projection angle. In defiance of all who reject the ether as unrealistic, the spinning ball actually weighed less, and traveled higher than its non-spinning counterpart. Those who attribute this to an aerodynamic or atmospheric effect, please note that it works just as well in a vacuum. Also note, this effect has since been verified by other [enlightened] researchers. The decrease in weight of the spinning ball - anti-gravity - can explain why the spinning object goes higher and falls faster than the identical non-rotating control. Current thinking is that there is no special interaction between rotation and gravity. The behavior of rotating objects is simply the addition of ether energy to whatever motion the rotating object is making.

Is this clear enough for you?


The Tunguska event is an undeniable proof that there is no curvature between Siberia and London.

How many times do we have to go through this?

If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

Do not pretend you do not understand the immediate conclusion: since the light from the explosion itself was SEEN all the way from London, while AT THE SAME TIME the light from the supposed heliocentrical sun COULD NOT BE SEEN AT ALL means that the Sun DOES NOT ORBIT AT THE ACCEPTED 149,000,000 KM DISTANCE FROM EARTH.

A clear proof that the Sun, in the now proven geocentric context, is much smaller than the Earth itself.


Tesla did not use Hertzian waves, please read his own statements on the subject.

Please read very carefully, excerpts from a very good biography of N. Tesla:

The modern day concept of electricity is pretty straightforward. Electrical current is defined by the motion of electrons traveling through a conductive material -- usually a metal such as copper. With a few basic formulas engineers are able to electrify our world, keeping our lights and appliances running.

However, there are some researchers who argue that mainstream science ignores the "true" nature of electricity, and what really constitutes electric current. They claim mainstream science incorrectly eliminated the concept of the aether, or the all pervasive medium in which electromagnetic waves were originally thought to travel. By ignoring the work of the early pioneers of electromagnetism, and dumbing down the original equations of Maxwell (the father of electromagnetism) they are obscuring the aether as the true source of electricity.

Nikola Tesla is an example of an individual who was convinced the aether existed, and built systems to harness it for the benefit of mankind. Some of his systems (today known as Tesla coils) used high frequency, high voltage discharges from capacitors to create disturbances in the aether.

 One reason it is likely the mainstream understanding of electricity could be in error is because we do not use the original equations of Maxwell. Instead we use "dumbed down" versions that are easier for electricians and engineers to utilize while designing conventional power systems.

In his paper, "A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field" Maxwell listed eight equations (that when broken down to their bare components equaled twenty equations) that would explain all of electromagnetism. Later, Oliver Heaviside reduced these twenty equations down to only four, in a simpler form of math. In doing so, he eliminated all the possibilities that were allowed for in the original work of Maxwell. For example, the aether and longitudinal waves.

If we are willing to admit that the dogma taught by mainstream science is not divinely inspired, then we should be open to the possibility our understanding of electricity is wrong. When it comes to Tesla's systems, many propose that the "voltage" flowing through his system was actually a pure form of aether.


Please do your homework, and stop posting nonsense, your tactics do not work with me.

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sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
You have no idea what you are posting.

Airy calculated the Earth's, density, and he was inaccurate. His ether drift experiments obtained a negative result.

I am here to teach you, and you are here to learn.

Pay attention.

Many think it proven long ago that the World orbits the Sun. However, the results of two simple experiments, both performed in the nineteenth century, showed that it is the stars which move, and not the World.

An experiment with a water-filled telescope was performed by the then Astronomer Royal, George Airy (after whom the Airy disc of diffraction theory is named), in 1871, which can be considered to be a variation of an earlier investigation by François Arago, performed with a moving slab of glass in 1810.

Arago showed that either light itself or the luminiferous aether is
dragged along by a moving piece of glass. Fresnel explained the effect
by assuming it was the light-carrying medium (this is called Fresnel
drag). George Stokes explained it via compression of the aether, but
the important point is whether we can tell which one is doing the
moving - the light source or the transparent material. When Arago
investigated this effect with starlight, he concluded that the World
(with respect to which the glass plate was stationary in this instance)
was at rest and that it was the stars that were moving.


"Airy's failure" (Reference - Proc. Roy. Soc. London v 20 p 35). Telescopes have to be very slightly tilted to get the starlight going down the axis of the tube because of the earth's "speed around the sun". Airy filled a telescope with water that greatly slowed down the speed of the light inside the telescope and found that he did not have to change the angle of the telescope. This showed that the starlight was already coming in at the original measured angle so that no change was needed. This demonstrated that it was the stars moving relative to a stationary earth and not the fast orbiting earth moving relative to the comparatively stationary stars. If it was the telescope moving he would have had to change the angle.

(Imagine the telescope like a tube, sloped so that the light from one star hits the bottom of the tube. Even if the starlight is slowed down inside the tube (using water), it will still hit the bottom of the tube because its direction is already determined. If it were the tube that was moving, slowing down the starlight would mean that the angle of the tube would have to change for the light to hit the bottom of the tube.)


Airy's experiment proved that the starlight was already coming into the earth at an angle, being carried along by the rotating aether.


AN EXACT CONFIRMATION OF ISAAC NEWTON'S CLEARLY EXPRESSED IDEAS ON TERRESTRIAL GRAVITY AND PLANETARY GRAVITY.

READ CAREFULLY.

Newton still thought that the planets and Sun were kept apart by 'some secret principle of unsociableness in the ethers of their vortices,' and that gravity was due to a circulating ether.

Isaac Newton speculated that gravity was caused by a flow of ether, or space, into celestial bodies. He discussed this theory in letters to Oldenburg, Halley, and Boyle.

Imagine the refractive index of such a flow of aether.


It is the high density of this aether which can be found BEYOND the Schumann cavity which provides the rotational gravitational force to keep in orbit the sun, moon, stars, planets.

Here is a letter from Newton to Halley, describing how he had independently arrived at the inverse square law using his aether hypothesis, to which he refers as the 'descending spirit':

....Now if this spirit descends from above with uniform velocity, its density and consequently its force will be reciprocally proportional to the square of its distance from the centre. But if it descended with accelerated motion, its density will everywhere diminish as much as the velocity increases, and so its force (according to the hypothesis) will be the same as before, that is still reciprocally as the square of its distance from the centre'

Read Newton's quotes: he understood that there are TWO gravitational forces at work.

One of them is the terrestrial gravity, a force of pressure exerted by the ether waves.

The other one is of a rotational type.


You want more?

I. Newton dismisses the law of attractive gravity as pure insanity:

A letter to Bentley: “That gravity should be innate, inherent, and essential to matter, so that one body can act upon another at a distance through a vacuum without the mediation of anything else, by and through which their action and force may be conveyed from one to another, is to me so great an absurdity that I believe no man, who has in philosophical matters a competent faculty of thinking, can ever fall into it.”

Those who believe in the concept of attractive gravity (you included) have NO competent faculty of thinking in the matters of science, according to Newton.

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robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
After all.........It's your website, Sandokhan ! I do hope that you do have fun. ;D

I have had mine, thanks to you !

BTW, have you gotten around to contacting  any of the scientists, engineers, amateur radio operators or any others on or not on  the list I supplied ?  ???

All of them have "contact us" on their websites. 

I still think it is your duty to do it yourself. ???  ::)

P.S. Interesting the way the Poll is going  ?  :D
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 03:26:45 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
OK Sandokhan, we've established already that you can't give a simple answer to anything, thanks for confirming that once again. You do understand that the topic is about the Ham radio vs. Flat Earth measurements, right? It's nothing to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction. Googleotomy posted a simple measurement and a calculation. He was looking for the FE equivalent, if I read his intention right. You responded with page after page of lunacy (no pun intended!) without a single real world measurement or calculation based on one.

I can sort of understand WHY looking at those pictures and videos that you think it looks like the Sun and Moon are closer than they are. They are striking pictures to be sure. But beyond saying that you think it looks like the Sun and Moon are closer than they really are, you haven't yet brought a single measurement that you or anyone else has take that you can base a calculation on. I suspect you know how to do basic math, so I can only conclude that you don't have any measurements.

Since you threatened to post the Black Sun pictures yet again, as if that would prove something it didn't before, I can only guess that you either have a real mental health problem (in which case I am concerned for you and I suggest you seek professional help) or you are pretending to have a real mental health problem (in which case you are a stinky troll and I suggest you seek professional help).

In conclusion, Sandokhan is an outstanding member of the FES, and also has no idea what he's talking about.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
OK Sandokhan, we've established already that you can't give a simple answer to anything, thanks for confirming that once again. You do understand that the topic is about the Ham radio vs. Flat Earth measurements, right? It's nothing to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction. Googleotomy posted a simple measurement and a calculation. He was looking for the FE equivalent, if I read his intention right. You responded with page after page of lunacy (no pun intended!) without a single real world measurement or calculation based on one.

I can sort of understand WHY looking at those pictures and videos that you think it looks like the Sun and Moon are closer than they are. They are striking pictures to be sure. But beyond saying that you think it looks like the Sun and Moon are closer than they really are, you haven't yet brought a single measurement that you or anyone else has take that you can base a calculation on. I suspect you know how to do basic math, so I can only conclude that you don't have any measurements.

Since you threatened to post the Black Sun pictures yet again, as if that would prove something it didn't before, I can only guess that you either have a real mental health problem (in which case I am concerned for you and I suggest you seek professional help) or you are pretending to have a real mental health problem (in which case you are a stinky troll and I suggest you seek professional help).

In conclusion, Sandokhan is an outstanding member of the FES, and also has no idea what he's talking about.

I really can't help from commenting on those pictures.

IMHO :
One of them could just as easily be a picture of a cardboard cutout in front of a bright flood light and just a few feet in front of the person in the picture. My field of expertise (if you want to call it that, but I would say it is more just my field of experience) is radio and radar and I'm just an amateur as far as photography is concerned but they show me absolutely nothing about sizes and distances to the moon and sun. IMHO it's really rather absurd to post them to claim that the distance to the moon is 15KM. I might add the most absurd thing I have ever seen so far.

IMHO :Here is a little about scientists, engineers and technicians. :
Scientists figure out how things work.
Engineers design things and how to make them work from the work the scientists have done.
As for us lowly technicians and amateur radio operators, we're the lazy louts in the chain. We just put the fruits of the works of the scientists and engineers to practical uses.

I probably shouldn't say this since Sandokhan is bound to read this....Or maybe not. I sometimes wonder if he does read any posts but his own......But that includes measuring the distance from the earth to the moon by "Moon Bounce."

And you're right Shmeggley. All  I  really just wanted was to see how FE computed the 15KM distance to compare it with the methods and results of "Moon Bounce."

And Shmeggley, you may find this hard to believe, but believe it or not I find my self in complete agreement with your post ! LOL !

Sandokhan I've saved you the trouble of looking them up, but here are two contacts for  a start.:

American Radio Relay League
225 Main Street
Newington, Connecticut 06111-1494, United States of America
Telephone : 850 - 494 - 0297

Mc Donald Observatory Visitor Center
3640 Dark Star Drive
Fort Davis, Texas 79734 , United States of America
Telephone : 432 - 426 - 3640

I double dare you to call or write them a letter ! LOL !
Or you can go directly to their websites, just search on "arrl" or "mc donald observatory."
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 04:12:58 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
You do understand that the topic is about the Ham radio vs. Flat Earth measurements, right? It's nothing to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction.

It has everything to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction, since both exist.

Maxwell's truncated equations refer only to Hertzian temporary ripples in the ether sea.

Maxwell's original equations prove the existence of the scalar waves.


Since Tesla actually invented radio wave theory, and at the same time he NEVER used Hertzian e/m waves, perhaps this fact alone might lead you to rethink your statement.

Suddenly [Kelvin] remarked with evident astonishment:

'Then you are not making use of Hertz waves?' ’Certainly not’, I replied, ’these are radiations.’...
What will it take for the RE to understand that Tesla did not use Hertzian waves to transmit energy?

"... It is too noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of TRUE CONDUCTION AND IS NOT TO BE CONFOUNDED WITH THE PHENOMENA OF ELECTRICAL RADIATION which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically IMPOSSIBLE THE TRANSMISSION OF ANY APPRECIABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO SUCH DISTANCES as are of practical importance. ..."

Obviously, Nikola Tesla accentuates that his "energy-transfer-waves" ARE NOT HERTZIAN !!!.
 
   "... It is necessary to employ oscillations in which the rate of radiation of energy into space IN THE FORM OF HERTZIAN OR ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES IS VERY SMALL. "


One reason it is likely the mainstream understanding of electricity could be in error is because we do not use the original equations of Maxwell. Instead we use "dumbed down" versions that are easier for electricians and engineers to utilize while designing conventional power systems.

In his paper, "A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field" Maxwell listed eight equations (that when broken down to their bare components equaled twenty equations) that would explain all of electromagnetism. Later, Oliver Heaviside reduced these twenty equations down to only four, in a simpler form of math. In doing so, he eliminated all the possibilities that were allowed for in the original work of Maxwell. For example, the aether and longitudinal waves.

If we are willing to admit that the dogma taught by mainstream science is not divinely inspired, then we should be open to the possibility our understanding of electricity is wrong.



Maxwell's original equations unite terrestrial gravity and electricity, as proved by both F. Nipher and B. DePalma.


I. Newton's comment about mental health applies ONLY to those who believe in attractive gravity, such as yourself.


Since believing in attractive gravity is a serious sign of delusion, according to Newton himself, then this delusion is best kept alive denying the very obvious facts which can be seen with the naked eye in the transit videos and the photographs from Antarctica: the 149,000,000 km are nowhere to be found, as the ISS passes right in front of the Sun, and the 384,000 km are nowhere to be found as the "Moon" is located just some hundred of km from F. Bruenjes.

Your words (each and every RE's words) were: MASSIVE COMPRESSION.

Since this compression is not due to the equipment used, as it cannot be in the real world, the missing 149,000,000 km are just that: a sure sign that you are mistaken, and that the Sun orbits the flat earth at a much lower altitude than previously thought.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

This alone proves that we find ourselves in a geocentric context, where the Sun is much smaller than the Earth itself, and that my assertions are perfectly correct.

Since I am right, and you are wrong, you might revise your comments about mental health...

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
I really never thought something so simple as the Moon Bounce  subject would go so long.
My apologies for starting it in the first place to anyone who got bored with the whole thing .

So I'll keep this post short.

It's too bad that FE people just don't understand how things are in the real world. Or maybe they just don't want to know.

Moon Bounce works and Radar works to determine distances and they both depend on the same principle using the speed of radio waves. (That's what we simply call them in the real world : "radio waves".) The 300,000 KM per second constant also has to be used in desiging the lengths of antennas for example. It works all the time.

Photography works and we know what to expect in a photo in the real world.

And of lot other things that we know for a fact such as distances and sizes of the moon, the sun,  et cetera, et cetera and so forth. .

We have to make a living doing things in the real world that Sandokhan says is impossible in the Flat Earth world.

But nobody is ever going to be able to change the minds of FE people. Simple as that.

I am not going to make any more snide remarks on this post about this website.

I will leave that to the others.

However, I AM happy to see that the Flat Earth Society Forum  is up and running again after crashing .  :D

Here  is a reference to amateur radio.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_amateur_radio

"200 Meters And Down", by Clinton De Soto is a good book on Amateur Radio of the early days.
http://www.arrl.org/shop/200-Meters-and-Down/
The book got mixed reviews. But being a History Nerd, that is to be expected.  ;D
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/5030

P.S. I am still waiting for a report from Sandokhan for his discussions with the ARRL and Mc Donald Observatory in reference to the measurements of the distance from the earth to the moon. I have supplied contact information for contact by mail or telephone and both sources can also be contacted online for information.

I know how easy it is  to contact the ARRL. Although my contact was not on the subject of this thread. I visited the ARRL HQ several years ago and was planning another visit in the future and they responded with information on visiting hours, etc. including Amateur Radio Station W1AW. So there's no problem in communicating (pardon the pun) with the ARRL online. I can even contact them directly through W1AW. (I have also visited W1AW too.)

I have contacted Mc Donald Observatory, too. Although the contact was also not on this subject either. I had attended a "Star Party" several years ago and was also planning a future visit , so they sent me information on dates and times and also answered a question about when was the best time to go. (During the "New Moon" phase when more stars can be seen.) So there is no probem in contacting Mc Donald Observatory online either.

These are the two of the best places I could think of for Sandokhan to discuss the question of the distance from the earth to the moon. Since it's so simple to contact them I am wondering why Sandokhan has not done it so far.  ???
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 02:10:36 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
You do understand that the topic is about the Ham radio vs. Flat Earth measurements, right? It's nothing to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction.

It has everything to do with scalar ether waves and aether refraction, since both exist.

Maxwell's truncated equations refer only to Hertzian temporary ripples in the ether sea.

Maxwell's original equations prove the existence of the scalar waves.

Maybe you'd care to explain how his original equations prove this?

Quote
Since Tesla actually invented radio wave theory, and at the same time he NEVER used Hertzian e/m waves, perhaps this fact alone might lead you to rethink your statement.

Suddenly [Kelvin] remarked with evident astonishment:

'Then you are not making use of Hertz waves?' ’Certainly not’, I replied, ’these are radiations.’...
What will it take for the RE to understand that Tesla did not use Hertzian waves to transmit energy?

"... It is too noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of TRUE CONDUCTION AND IS NOT TO BE CONFOUNDED WITH THE PHENOMENA OF ELECTRICAL RADIATION which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically IMPOSSIBLE THE TRANSMISSION OF ANY APPRECIABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO SUCH DISTANCES as are of practical importance. ..."

Obviously, Nikola Tesla accentuates that his "energy-transfer-waves" ARE NOT HERTZIAN !!!.
 
   "... It is necessary to employ oscillations in which the rate of radiation of energy into space IN THE FORM OF HERTZIAN OR ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES IS VERY SMALL. "

Nevertheless Tesla's wireless power transmission is well understood without the concept of ether. Use of telluric currents to transmit energy through the sea or earth is nothing new or surprising. Can you explain why an ether is necessary for this to work? Preferably without copy pasting?

Quote
One reason it is likely the mainstream understanding of electricity could be in error is because we do not use the original equations of Maxwell. Instead we use "dumbed down" versions that are easier for electricians and engineers to utilize while designing conventional power systems.

In his paper, "A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field" Maxwell listed eight equations (that when broken down to their bare components equaled twenty equations) that would explain all of electromagnetism. Later, Oliver Heaviside reduced these twenty equations down to only four, in a simpler form of math. In doing so, he eliminated all the possibilities that were allowed for in the original work of Maxwell. For example, the aether and longitudinal waves.

If we are willing to admit that the dogma taught by mainstream science is not divinely inspired, then we should be open to the possibility our understanding of electricity is wrong.

If it's wrong then can you explain why it's wrong and how it should be corrected? I'm sure physicists around the world would love to hear about this revolutionary new theory.


Quote
Maxwell's original equations unite terrestrial gravity and electricity, as proved by both F. Nipher and B. DePalma.

I thought I explained why the DePalma experiment didn't prove anything. Nobody replicated his results. Even assuming his results were real, you haven't explained why this refutes gravity and more importantly, how the theory needs to be changed to work properly

Quote
I. Newton's comment about mental health applies ONLY to those who believe in attractive gravity, such as yourself.

Newton was not a psychologist, so who cares? Newton was wrong about alchemy, and he was wrong about the ether.

Quote
Since believing in attractive gravity is a serious sign of delusion, according to Newton himself, then this delusion is best kept alive denying the very obvious facts which can be seen with the naked eye in the transit videos and the photographs from Antarctica: the 149,000,000 km are nowhere to be found, as the ISS passes right in front of the Sun, and the 384,000 km are nowhere to be found as the "Moon" is located just some hundred of km from F. Bruenjes.

Your words (each and every RE's words) were: MASSIVE COMPRESSION.

Since this compression is not due to the equipment used, as it cannot be in the real world, the missing 149,000,000 km are just that: a sure sign that you are mistaken, and that the Sun orbits the flat earth at a much lower altitude than previously thought.

These photos prove nothing. Please show your math.

Quote
If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

This alone proves that we find ourselves in a geocentric context, where the Sun is much smaller than the Earth itself, and that my assertions are perfectly correct.

Again, it does not prove anything, other than that people in London saw light. How do you know it wasn't light from the meteor as it passed through the atmosphere, which might have been visible from London? There's nothing in the report that says the the light seen in London had to be from the impact and explosion itself.

Quote
Since I am right, and you are wrong, you might revise your comments about mental health...

Being convinced you are right and sane is perfectly consistent with being deluded.

Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Sandokhan Quote -
"One reason it is likely the mainstream understanding of electricity could be in error is because we do not use the original equations of Maxwell. Instead we use "dumbed down" versions that are easier for electricians and engineers to utilize while designing conventional power systems.

In his paper, "A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field" Maxwell listed eight equations (that when broken down to their bare components equaled twenty equations) that would explain all of electromagnetism. Later, Oliver Heaviside reduced these twenty equations down to only four, in a simpler form of math. In doing so, he eliminated all the possibilities that were allowed for in the original work of Maxwell. For example, the aether and longitudinal waves.

If we are willing to admit that the dogma taught by mainstream science is not divinely inspired, then we should be open to the possibility our understanding of electricity is wrong. " - Sandokhan Unquote


Another suggested source of contact for Sandokhan to discuss the above:

Electrical Engineering Professors and Students at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas.
You might include Physics, too.

Sandokhan seems to delight in posting endless "pasta." Two can play this game. Here is some more "pasta" from wikieup to add to the post.: LOL.

"The distance to the Moon is calculated approximately using this equation:
Distance = (Speed of light × Time taken for light to reflect) .
In actuality, the round-trip time of about 2˝ seconds is affected by the relative motion of the Earth and the Moon, the rotation of the Earth, lunar libration, weather, polar motion, propagation delay through Earth's atmosphere, the motion of the observing station due to crustal motion and tides, velocity of light in various parts of air and relativistic effects. Nonetheless, the Earth-Moon distance has been measured with increasing accuracy for more than 35 years. The distance continually changes for a number of reasons, but averages about 384,467 kilometers (238,897 miles).

At the Moon's surface, the beam is only about 6.5 kilometers (four miles) wide and scientists liken the task of aiming the beam to using a rifle to hit a moving dime 3 kilometers (approximately two miles) away. The reflected light is too weak to be seen with the human eye: out of 1017 photons aimed at the reflector, only one will be received back on Earth every few seconds, even under good conditions. They can be identified as originating from the laser because the laser is highly monochromatic. This is one of the most precise distance measurements ever made, and is equivalent in accuracy to determining the distance between Los Angeles and New York to one hundredth of an inch. As of 2002[update] work is progressing on increasing the accuracy of the Earth-Moon measurements to near millimeter accuracy, though the performance of the reflectors continues to degrade with age."

« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 07:30:51 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
The Tunguska event was not caused by a meteorite, asteroid or a comet.

I thought you understood this much.

In 1983, astronomer Zdenek Sekanina published a paper criticizing the comet hypothesis. He pointed out that a body composed of cometary material, travelling through the atmosphere along such a shallow trajectory, ought to have disintegrated, whereas the Tunguska body apparently remained intact into the lower atmosphere.

The chief difficulty in the asteroid hypothesis is that a stony object should have produced a large crater where it struck the ground, but no such crater has been found.

Fesenkov (1962) claims, "According to all evidence, this meteorite moved around the Sun in a retrograde direction, which is impossible for typical meteorites...." Fesenkov notes that meteorites rarely hit the earth in the morning, because the morning side faces forward in the planet's orbit. Usually the meteorite overtakes the earth from behind, on the evening side.


The most startling evidence concerns the path of the object:

T.R. LeMaire, a science writer, continues this thought, by suggesting "The Tunguska blast's timing seems too fortuitous for an accident" (LeMaire 1980). He claims that a five-hour delay would make the target of destruction St. Petersburg, adding that a tiny change of course in space would have devastated populated areas of China or India.

LeMaire maintains the "accident-explanation is untenable" because "the flaming object was being expertly navigated" using Lake Baikal as a reference point. Indeed, Lake Baikal is an ideal aerial navigation reference point being 400 miles long and about 35 miles wide. LeMaire's description of the course of the Tunguska object lends credence to the thought of expert navigation:

The body approached from the south, but when about 140 miles from the explosion point, while over Kezhma, it abruptly changed course to the east. Two hundred and fifty miles later, while above Preobrazhenka, it reversed its heading toward the west. It exploded above the taiga at 60ş55' N, 101ş57' E (LeMaire 1980).



Felix Zigel, professor of aerodynamics (Moscow Aviation Institute) and other space experts agree that, prior to exploding, the object changed from an eastward to a westward direction over the Stony Tunguska region.



"It is clear that the Tungus cosmic body ... could not have been a comet," wrote the geophysicist A.V.
Zolotov, speaking for many of his fellow Soviet scientists. "Neither could it have been a normal ice,
stone, or iron meteorite. The Tungus body obviously represents a new yet unknown, much more
complicated phenomenon of nature than has been encountered up to this time."


The information acquired by the Florensky and Zolotov expeditions about the ballistic shock effect on the trees provides a strong basis, in some scientists' view, for a reconstruction of an alteration in the object's line of flight. In the terminal phase of its descent, according to the most recent speculations, the object appears to have approached on an eastward course, then changed course westward over the region before exploding. The ballistic wave evidence, in fact, indicates that some type of flight correction was performed in the atmosphere.

The same opinion was reached by Felix Zigel, who as an aerodynamics professor at the Moscow Institute of Aviation has been involved in the training of many Soviet cosmonauts. His latest study of all the eyewitness and physical data convinced him that "before the blast the Tunguska body described in the atmosphere a tremendous arc of about 375 miles in extent (in azimuth)" - that is, it "carried out a maneuver." No natural object is capable of such a feat.


You have not done your homework, obviously.


The explosion was seen instantaneously across Europe, moreover the trajectory itself was also observed/seen from London:

“Sir,--I should be interested in hearing whether others of your readers observed the strange light in the sky which was seen here last night by my sister and myself.  I do not know when it first appeared; we saw it between 12 o’clock (midnight) and 12:15 a.m. It was in the northeast and of a bright flame-colour like the light of sunrise or sunset.  The sky, for some distance above the light, which appeared to be on the horizon, was blue as in the daytime, with bands of light cloud of a pinkish colour floating across it at intervals.  Only the brightest stars could be seen in any part of the sky, though it was an almost cloudless night.  It was possible to read large print indoors, and the hands of the clock in my room were quite distinct.

We are told that the rays of light from the Sun (and it was morning over Siberia on June 30, at 7:20 am) cannot reach, for example, London, at the same time, due to the curvature; then NOTHING could have been observed/seen from Tunguska as well on a globe; an explosion on one side of a globe could not possibly influence in any way visual observations on the other side of the same globe; the visual range limit for the Tunguska explosion, on that cloudless day, is just 400 km.

In London on the night of June 30th the air-glow illuminates the northern quadrant of the heavens so brightly that the Times can be read at midnight. In Antwerp the glare of what looks like a huge bonfire rises twenty degrees above the northern horizon, and the sweep second hands of stopwatches are clearly visible at one a.m. In Stockholm, photographers find they can take pictures out of doors without need of cumbersome flash apparatus at any time of night from June 30th to July 3rd.


Therefore, you are out of luck: no other astronomical event occurred at 0:00 - 0:30 am at that time, other than the Tunguska event.

Newspapers could be read at midnight in London, photographs could be taken outdoors in Stockholm without flash apparatus; no other meteorological/astronomical phenomenon occurred at that time in the world, no such records exist.


If the light from the Sun could not reach London due to curvature and/or any light reflection phenomena, then certainly NO LIGHT from an explosion which occurred at some 7 km altitude in the atmosphere could have been seen at all, at the same time, on a spherical earth.

This alone proves that we find ourselves in a geocentric context, where the Sun is much smaller than the Earth itself, and that my assertions are perfectly correct.


Since the Earth is actually flat, the Sun must be smaller than the Earth itself.

We are no longer debating the 149,000,000 km distance or the 384,000 km distance: these have been proved WRONG by the Tunguska event.


Since believing in attractive gravity is a serious sign of delusion, according to Newton himself, then this delusion is best kept alive denying the very obvious facts which can be seen with the naked eye in the transit videos and the photographs from Antarctica: the 149,000,000 km are nowhere to be found, as the ISS passes right in front of the Sun, and the 384,000 km are nowhere to be found as the "Moon" is located just some hundred of km from F. Bruenjes.

Your words (each and every RE's words) were: MASSIVE COMPRESSION.

Since this compression is not due to the equipment used, as it cannot be in the real world, the missing 149,000,000 km are just that: a sure sign that you are mistaken, and that the Sun orbits the flat earth at a much lower altitude than previously thought.

Scott Bideau:

Lens compression doesn’t technically exist. There is no magic in a lens that changes physics and compresses a scene. The “compression” is a byproduct of your working distance from the subject.

There you have it: the distance is all that matters.

And that distance if very small as proven the Tunguska event.

As for the other questions, they were already very well explained here:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,58190.msg1499261.html#msg1499261

We already know that you can cut and paste a wall of text, now can you prove that you actually understand it and summarize how this proves the things you claim, preferably with the maths to work out the distance to the moon.
I'd like to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Since I suppose I am to blame for starting this mess of this subject in the first place, perhaps I should make a comment that both sides of this question should be more respectful of both sides of the question of who is right and who is wrong on this subject, which originally was the subject of the distance from the earth to the moon and how it was computed. And refrain from making insulting comments. I supose I am as guilty as any in my zeal to explain the Ham Radio side of the subject.

There are all sorts of weird cults, sects, groups and so forth who may have beliefs that sound weird and strange to the other side, but both RE's and FE's should be more respectful of each side of the question on this forum. In the future I shall try to be more tolerant, even though I may have a few reservations about some of the material  posted by the other side of the question.

And ..... Please Understand......I do not mean to be mean, insulting or  judgmental, but I am only reporting what I hear......But....From what I have heard there are some who believe that one such group are the weirdest of all of  these.:

Namely :
The millions of Amateur Radio Operators, who are strangely but duly legally licensed in their respective countries to practice their hobby.  And the weirdest of all are the hundreds of those persons who engage in bouncing radio waves off the moon in their "Moon Bounce" operations on the Amateur Radio "Bands" of frequencies.

This is all just "hearsay evidence" and probably would or wouldn't stand up in a court of law. ???
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 10:25:50 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
We already know that you can cut and paste a wall of text, now can you prove that you actually understand it and summarize how this proves the things you claim, preferably with the maths to work out the distance to the moon.


I'll post mine again.:

Example of the "Moon Bounce" Operation presented.:
Aim an antenna at the moon. Transmit a signal . Wait for the signal to return to the receiver. Note the time for the signal to go to the moon and return. Use this time to compute the distance using the speed of radio waves. Multiply the one way time by the value of the speed of radio waves to compute the distance.

For this example the time interval between the transmission to the moon and back was measured at  2.55 seconds for the "round trip" from the earth to the moon and return. Half of that time was 1.275 seconds for the "one way" trip to the moon or the "one way" trip to the earth.

1.275 Seconds (Measured one way time to or from the moon) times 186,000 Miles Per Second (Speed of radio waves) equals 237,150 Miles

1.275 Seconds (Measured one way time to or from the moon) times 300,000 Kilometers Per Second (Speed of radio waves) equals 382,500 Kilometers

See previous posts for proofs from other reliable souces of this figure for the distance from the earth to the moon. (They are definitely not "fabrications")  ;D

Caveat: The "Moon Bounce" figures are not as exact as those made by Astronomical Observatories, but  nevertheless are fairly close approximations.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 12:04:06 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
The calculations are very simple.

The light from the explosion was seen from London across a distance which encompasses seven time zones.

Do not pretend you have not read my messages until now.

The additional information can be found by doing a simple search: the visual obstacle from London, the eyewitness accounts from the Gobi desert and lake Baikal.

This alone proves that the surface of the Earth is actually flat. Moreover, it proves that the Sun is much smaller than the Earth.

The DePalma experiment has been confirmed hundreds of times by Russian physicists (see the references already provided earlier). It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the fallacy of the "law" of universal gravitation.

The best and the most correct proofs: that is why sanity is the hallmark of the flat earth theory. To believe that 1000 billion trillion liters of water simply stay glued to the surface of the round earth without attractive gravity would mean to leave the realm of science and enter the realm of psychiatry.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
As I previously remarked, I am going to try to not make any further remarks on Sandokhan's posts even if I do have a few reservations.  ;D 

And I have read your messages.....All of them,  I assure you.

He is quite welcome to make any on my posts, however.

It's fair game for everyone else, though. I shall not attempt to interfere with same.  ;D

Sandokhan I am sure there are other persons on this forum who would be interested in reports on your contacts with the ARRL and Mc Donald Observatory. Please post them as soon as possible. Thank you.  :) I've done my homework on that area.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 12:13:05 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
The calculations are very simple.
Does this mean that you are finally going to show the calculations?

Quote
The light from the explosion was seen from London across a distance which encompasses seven time zones.

Do not pretend you have not read my messages until now.

The additional information can be found by doing a simple search: the visual obstacle from London, the eyewitness accounts from the Gobi desert and lake Baikal.

This alone proves that the surface of the Earth is actually flat. Moreover, it proves that the Sun is much smaller than the Earth.

The DePalma experiment has been confirmed hundreds of times by Russian physicists (see the references already provided earlier). It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the fallacy of the "law" of universal gravitation.

The best and the most correct proofs: that is why sanity is the hallmark of the flat earth theory. To believe that 1000 billion trillion liters of water simply stay glued to the surface of the round earth without attractive gravity would mean to leave the realm of science and enter the realm of psychiatry.
Umm...  None of that counts as showing calculations.  I can tell because calculations involve numbers and mathematical operators and you didn't provide either.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
The calculations are very simple.
Does this mean that you are finally going to show the calculations?

Quote
The light from the explosion was seen from London across a distance which encompasses seven time zones.

Do not pretend you have not read my messages until now.

The additional information can be found by doing a simple search: the visual obstacle from London, the eyewitness accounts from the Gobi desert and lake Baikal.

This alone proves that the surface of the Earth is actually flat. Moreover, it proves that the Sun is much smaller than the Earth.

The DePalma experiment has been confirmed hundreds of times by Russian physicists (see the references already provided earlier). It proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the fallacy of the "law" of universal gravitation.

The best and the most correct proofs: that is why sanity is the hallmark of the flat earth theory. To believe that 1000 billion trillion liters of water simply stay glued to the surface of the round earth without attractive gravity would mean to leave the realm of science and enter the realm of psychiatry.
Umm...  None of that counts as showing calculations.  I can tell because calculations involve numbers and mathematical operators and you didn't provide either.

Markjo and Sandokhan:
Umm......Do you need any further information on "Moon Bounce" ? Do I need to elaborate further on the means and ends of the calculations involved ?

Umm...Broke my rule but couldn't resist this.:
Sandokhan:
"The best and the most correct proofs (Insert ?????) : that is why (Insert insanity)  sanity is the hallmark of the flat earth theory....."

Amended as marked without comment. ;D
"De debil made me do it.": ::)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 08:26:50 PM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
Just a reminder to sandokhan, when the sun goes behind the horizon or in my case, behind the mountains, it doesn't get instantly dark. Light makes it around the globe more than just line of sight.

Quote from: sandokhan
You have not done your homework, obviously.
So I was actually helping with research and I took some pictures.
Here is just a small part of the instruments wavelength guide.

And here is a picture from an actual method.

Strange how it goes against what you say about EM but there it is. I think I know who really needs to do there homework. I suggest you also take a field trip, preferable somehere after the year 1910.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Just a reminder to sandokhan, when the sun goes behind the horizon or in my case, behind the mountains, it doesn't get instantly dark. Light makes it around the globe more than just line of sight.

Quote from: sandokhan
You have not done your homework, obviously.
So I was actually helping with research and I took some pictures.
Here is just a small part of the instruments wavelength guide.

And here is a picture from an actual method.

Strange how it goes against what you say about EM but there it is. I think I know who really needs to do there homework. I suggest you also take a field trip, preferable somehere after the year 1910.

So were you using Hertzian or Longitudinal waves there? Because that makes a huge difference you know.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
They are normal electromagnetic transverse waves. The ones that don't exist because Tesla used longitudinal waves so it means transverse waves don't exist because Tesla didn't use them. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

*

sandokhan

  • Flat Earth Sultan
  • Flat Earth Scientist
  • 7138
What will it take for everybody to understand the difference between e/m waves and Tesla waves?

An ether wave is a transverse wave.

These waves are made up of subquark strings.

These subquark strings consists of bosons which propagate LONGITUDINALLY inside the ether waves themselves.

Tesla never used e/m waves, that is, ripples of the ether waves. Instead he sent the signal/energy directly through the bosons longitudinally.

"... It is too noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of TRUE CONDUCTION AND IS NOT TO BE CONFOUNDED WITH THE PHENOMENA OF ELECTRICAL RADIATION which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically IMPOSSIBLE THE TRANSMISSION OF ANY APPRECIABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO SUCH DISTANCES as are of practical importance. ..."

Obviously, Nikola Tesla accentuates that his "energy-transfer-waves" ARE NOT HERTZIAN !!!.
 
   "... It is necessary to employ oscillations in which the rate of radiation of energy into space IN THE FORM OF HERTZIAN OR ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES IS VERY SMALL. "

Another confirmation of the existence of ether waves.

BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

The intensity or magnitude of the effect is determined by five known factors, namely:

1) The separation of the plates of the condenser - the closer the plates, the greater the effect.

2) The ability of the material between the plates to store electrical energy in the form of elastic stress. A measure of this ability is called the 'K' factor of the material. The higher the 'K', the greater the Biefeld-Brown effect.

3) The area of the condenser plates - the greater area giving the greater effect.

4) The voltage difference between the plates - the greater the voltage, the greater the effect.

5) The mass of the material between the plates - the greater the mass, the greater the effect.

http://montalk.net/science/84/the-biefeld-brown-effect

Dr. Brown experimented with umbrella and disk shaped gravitators. The umbrella devices consisted of two electrodes, one positive and one negative, with one electrode shaped like a large bowl and the other like a smaller bowl. Overall, this formed an open-air capacitor but with asymmetric electrodes, whose asymmetric electric fields generated unbalanced gravitational divergences and increased acceleration. The disk gravitators, described earlier, did the same except one electrode formed the leading edge of the disk, while the other electrode formed the body and trailing edge.

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.


Dr. Townsend Brown patents:

http://www.rexresearch.com/gravitor/gravitor.htm

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">#]Biefeld-Brown effect tested with Bi-Polar Tesla Coil


#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">#]Biefeld-Brown Effect



http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Thomas_Townsend_Brown

http://www.doctorkoontz.com/Antigravity/Townsend_Brown/page90.html


T. Townsend Brown, of the greatest American physicists of the 20th century, continued the work done by Dr. Francis Nipher, electricity can alter gravitation attraction -

http://www.rexresearch.com/nipher/nipher1.htm

And, of course, a confirmation of the original Maxwell equations' implications:

What electrical engineers work with today, is a subset of a higher-topology EM. The four "Maxwell's Equations" taught today in electrical engineering are actually an over-simplified subset of Maxwell's original work. The pruning was done by Oliver Heaviside in the late 19th century; Heaviside took Maxwell's original equations, written in Hamilton's quaternions (related to what we nowadays call spinors), and "simplified" them by lopping off the scalar part of the complex numbers, leaving the easy-to-work-with vector part intact-- which radio engineers loved.

When Heaviside threw out the scalar part of the quaternionic EM equation, he unknowingly threw out the possibility of unifying gravitation with electromagnetism-- which has been a holy grail for scientists since Einstein himself wrestled with the problem. That's because the scalar part of the quaternion was the part that captured or modeled the "stress on the aether"-- which leads to curving/warping spacetime a la Einstein. We CAN unify gravity with EM, and convert back and forth between them, if we understand how vectors and scalars relate to one another and what the ramifications are.

The simple vector equations produced by Heaviside and Gibbs captured only that subset of Maxwell's theory where EM and gravitation are mutually exclusive. In that subset, electromagnetic circuits and equipment will not ever, and cannot ever, produce gravitational or inertial effects in materials and equipment.

Neither Lorentz nor Einstein seemed to have been aware of the contents of Maxwell‟s original papers, while both of them seemed to be under the impression that they were fixing something that wasn‟t broken in the first place. In doing so, Einstein managed to drop the luminiferous aether out of physics altogether, claiming that he was basing his investigation on what he had read in the so-called „Maxwell-Hertz equations for empty space‟! But whatever these Maxwell-Hertz equations might have been, they certainly can‟t have been Maxwell‟s original equations.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 03:16:05 AM by sandokhan »

*

sokarul

  • 19303
  • Extra Racist
What will it take for everybody to understand the difference between e/m waves and Tesla waves?
What will it take for you to realize Tesla waves are EM waves?

Quote
An ether wave is a transverse wave.

These waves are made up of subquark strings.

These subquark strings consists of bosons which propagate LONGITUDINALLY inside the ether waves themselves.

Tesla never used e/m waves, that is, ripples of the ether waves. Instead he sent the signal/energy directly through the bosons longitudinally.

"... It is too noted that the phenomenon here involved in the transmission of electrical energy is one of TRUE CONDUCTION AND IS NOT TO BE CONFOUNDED WITH THE PHENOMENA OF ELECTRICAL RADIATION which have heretofore been observed and which from the very nature and mode of propagation would render practically IMPOSSIBLE THE TRANSMISSION OF ANY APPRECIABLE AMOUNT OF ENERGY TO SUCH DISTANCES as are of practical importance. ..."

Obviously, Nikola Tesla accentuates that his "energy-transfer-waves" ARE NOT HERTZIAN !!!.
 
   "... It is necessary to employ oscillations in which the rate of radiation of energy into space IN THE FORM OF HERTZIAN OR ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES IS VERY SMALL. "

Another confirmation of the existence of ether waves.

BIEFELD-BROWN EFFECT

During the period 1919 - 1923,  Professor Paul Alfred Biefeld outlined to his student, Thomas Townsend Brown, certain experiments which led to the discovery of the phenomenon now known as the Biefeld-Brown effect. Further, these experiments helped to define the inter-relationship of electrical and gravitational fields. This coupling effect parallels electricity and magnetism.

The original experiments concerned the behavior of a condenser when charged with electricity. The first startling result was that if placed in a free suspension with the poles horizontal, the condenser, when electrically charged, showed a forward thrust toward the positive pole !!! When the polarity was reversed, it caused a reversal of the direction of thrust.

The intensity or magnitude of the effect is determined by five known factors, namely:

1) The separation of the plates of the condenser - the closer the plates, the greater the effect.

2) The ability of the material between the plates to store electrical energy in the form of elastic stress. A measure of this ability is called the 'K' factor of the material. The higher the 'K', the greater the Biefeld-Brown effect.

3) The area of the condenser plates - the greater area giving the greater effect.

4) The voltage difference between the plates - the greater the voltage, the greater the effect.

5) The mass of the material between the plates - the greater the mass, the greater the effect.

http://montalk.net/science/84/the-biefeld-brown-effect

Dr. Brown experimented with umbrella and disk shaped gravitators. The umbrella devices consisted of two electrodes, one positive and one negative, with one electrode shaped like a large bowl and the other like a smaller bowl. Overall, this formed an open-air capacitor but with asymmetric electrodes, whose asymmetric electric fields generated unbalanced gravitational divergences and increased acceleration. The disk gravitators, described earlier, did the same except one electrode formed the leading edge of the disk, while the other electrode formed the body and trailing edge.

Nevertheless, for those wishing to debunk the Biefeld-Brown effect by attributing it entirely to ion wind, it must be pointed out that closed capacitors, the cellular gravitators, also self-accelerate without any ion wind effects. Electrogravity arises primarily from the gravitational component of the electric field, harnessed for propulsion via the asymmetrical gravitational field of electric dipoles. Brown also experimented with disk gravitators in vacuum chambers and observed them accelerating nearly as quickly as when run at atmospheric pressure.

The Biefeld-Brown effect demonstrates a link between electricity and gravity.


Dr. Townsend Brown patents:



T. Townsend Brown, of the greatest American physicists of the 20th century, continued the work done by Dr. Francis Nipher, electricity can alter gravitation attraction -



And, of course, a confirmation of the original Maxwell equations' implications:

What electrical engineers work with today, is a subset of a higher-topology EM. The four "Maxwell's Equations" taught today in electrical engineering are actually an over-simplified subset of Maxwell's original work. The pruning was done by Oliver Heaviside in the late 19th century; Heaviside took Maxwell's original equations, written in Hamilton's quaternions (related to what we nowadays call spinors), and "simplified" them by lopping off the scalar part of the complex numbers, leaving the easy-to-work-with vector part intact-- which radio engineers loved.

When Heaviside threw out the scalar part of the quaternionic EM equation, he unknowingly threw out the possibility of unifying gravitation with electromagnetism-- which has been a holy grail for scientists since Einstein himself wrestled with the problem. That's because the scalar part of the quaternion was the part that captured or modeled the "stress on the aether"-- which leads to curving/warping spacetime a la Einstein. We CAN unify gravity with EM, and convert back and forth between them, if we understand how vectors and scalars relate to one another and what the ramifications are.

The simple vector equations produced by Heaviside and Gibbs captured only that subset of Maxwell's theory where EM and gravitation are mutually exclusive. In that subset, electromagnetic circuits and equipment will not ever, and cannot ever, produce gravitational or inertial effects in materials and equipment.

Neither Lorentz nor Einstein seemed to have been aware of the contents of Maxwell‟s original papers, while both of them seemed to be under the impression that they were fixing something that wasn‟t broken in the first place. In doing so, Einstein managed to drop the luminiferous aether out of physics altogether, claiming that he was basing his investigation on what he had read in the so-called „Maxwell-Hertz equations for empty space‟! But whatever these Maxwell-Hertz equations might have been, they certainly can‟t have been Maxwell‟s original equations.
My pictures show you are wrong. You didn't even address them. There are so many more scientific instruments that show the current electromagnetic spectrum to be correct.You just don't know because you sit at your computer thinking experiments from 1910 can't be shown to be incorrect.
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Things don't go as planned on this forum.  :'((The understatement of the year !  ;D

This what I had really planned for this subject.:

Post #1 :OP: The method and results of Ham Radio Measurements are explained along with results from other sources as to the distance from the earth to the moon and the size of the moon. (Figures and methods for computation are shown.)

Post #2 : FE Response: This is the method and the results from FE for the measurements of the distance from the earth to the moon and the size of the moon. (Figures and methods for computations are shown.)

Post #3 : RE Response: Thank you for your explanation. I just wanted to see how FE computed and results for comparison. Thanks again. I'll just start a poll - This is just for a matter of opinion anyway. Readers : Please vote for what is your opinion as to the question in point.

This subject could have ended there on the first page. I had hoped it would have been as simple as that.

That was all I really wanted. But this thread got de-railed more times than one of those old time railroads. :P
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

The calculations are very simple.

The light from the explosion was seen from London across a distance which encompasses seven time zones.

Do not pretend you have not read my messages until now.

The additional information can be found by doing a simple search: the visual obstacle from London, the eyewitness accounts from the Gobi desert and lake Baikal.

This alone proves that the surface of the Earth is actually flat. Moreover, it proves that the Sun is much smaller than the Earth.


Across 7 time zones is not the route light would take, it is a much shorter route following an arc. Additionally, longitude lines are closer and closer near the poles. And, being a meteor it could've easily streaked across the sky lighting much more places than where it hit. 

The Tunguska explosion doesn't prove the earth is flat.

Welcome to the 21st century.

Quote from: Heiwa
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

?

Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Googleotomy, this may be the answer you were looking for:



I'm not sure if the measurement was actually made, or if it was purely theoretical, but it was most definitely flawed.

The great thing about this forum is that it has made me think of many new ways of testing the shape of the earth without bias. By that i mean, developing an experiment based on very simple principles and making no assumption about the earth's shape, taking  bunch of measurements, and asking the question "what does this tell me about the shape of the earth? Does it fit a flat earth, or a round earth?" Most of the time, it fits a round earth. The rest of the time, it fits both equally well, which makes those experiments inconclusive.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Thanks very much Scintific Method :.
That was all that  I had been looking for on lo, these 18 pages.
I should have done the research myself, but I was hoping some FE would do it.
Just one example.:
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/5000-for-proving-the-earth-is-a-globe/

Edited. Deleted due to low content.

Scintific Method :
P.S.
Seriously, I do agree with you  that this forum does get you to thinking about a lot of things and in the process makes you do a bit of research and reviewing of things you learned long ago in physics and other science subjects and subjects such as radio , photography and astronomy going way back to your High School and College days.

My signature line was first made up just in jest as a parody from an old quote *, but I believe it fairly well sums it up as far as The Flat Earth Society Forum is concerned.
* (Billy Rose, 1936 : "Come to Fort Worth for entertainment. Go to Dallas for education.")

Thanks again for your participation. I'm going to hand this off back to the FE-ers and try to depart the scene of the crime as best I can. ;D

P.P.S.
And even if Sandokhan doesn't take me up on my invitations, I am hoping to make some repeat visits to Newington, Connecticut and Mount Locke, Texas !

EDITED: Correction : Should have directed this to Scintific Method but thanks also due to Sokarul and all others.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2013, 09:55:04 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !

?

robintex

  • Ranters
  • 5322
Just a reminder to sandokhan, when the sun goes behind the horizon or in my case, behind the mountains, it doesn't get instantly dark. Light makes it around the globe more than just line of sight.

Quote from: sandokhan
You have not done your homework, obviously.
So I was actually helping with research and I took some pictures.
Here is just a small part of the instruments wavelength guide.

And here is a picture from an actual method.

Strange how it goes against what you say about EM but there it is. I think I know who really needs to do there homework. I suggest you also take a field trip, preferable somehere after the year 1910.

So were you using Hertzian or Longitudinal waves there? Because that makes a huge difference you know.

Also notice the afterglow after sunset, especially if there are high clouds on the horizon.......
Stick close , very close , to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window , see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never,  ever go to sea !