Hi, I just noticed a very big problem.

Hello, I just got here.

I'm still not sure of this site is not a gigantic form of trolling, but I'm willing to give it the benefeit of doubt. Just so you guys know, I beleive the earth to be round, but I'm not going to flame/insult anyone. I respect other people's opinions.

Now on to my question.

about this...

Q: "How come the travel time by air from South America to New Zealand, via the polar route, is SHORTER than the travel time going North first and then South again?"

A: (Presumed answer: The airline pilots are misled by their GPS, or are deliberately conspiring to make it appear that the flights take different times)

There are two major holes in this.

1. It would be impossible for a pilot to make 10+ hour trips seem like 4-6 hours. There is no way to convince someone that they are spending LESS time somewhere than they actuall are, not at that scale. Besides, all they have to do is look at their watch, and you don't even need a watch to tell how much time passed.

2. And this is the biggest of the 2 problems. The pilots are misled by the GPS, (if they are not part of the conspiracy from the moment they start working for the airline company). I'm sure everyone realises that it would be incredibly difficult to have every single GPS in the world tampered with to show false information, while at the same time not causing the pilots to fly randomly towards a mountain, AND having such temperings be undetectable. But let's assume that it is being done anyway.  No the problem is the GPS itself.

How can any flatworlder speak about a GPS? GPS is global positioning  through satellites. But satellites do not exist (according to flat world theory) because the NASA never went in space and never had the opportunity to put them there in the first place, pictures of satellites orbitting the earth are fake (again according to FET). Except no one can deny that GPS exists and work. GPS requires no less than 24 satellites, and there would be no way for it to work through any other means. Wether the earth is flat or round, that level of real time precision in positionning could not be done by any instruments restricted to remain on the ground.

Of course, it also means that Satellite T.V, does not exist either. and I'd like to see someone explain high definition TV from sources across the......what's the homloguous term for globe here?

Also, it means that the united states launched tactical nukes and missiles pretty much blindly (as they could not use satellite targeting which does not exist), but luckily for the rest of the world, they managed to hit their intended targets somehow.

That is all.

My brain has exploded from the truth brought upon this forum.  Bits and pieces are in Samuel L. Jacksons fro.

I'm sure everyone realises that it would be incredibly difficult to have every single GPS in the world tampered with to show false information, while at the same time not causing the pilots to fly randomly towards a mountain, AND having such temperings be undetectable.

You're a bit confused. There is no tampering; the GPS devices are designed and built with the FE system in mind.
As for misleading the pilots with it, that wouldn't be nearly as difficult as you make it out to be.

How can any flatworlder speak about a GPS? GPS is global positioning  through satellites.

On a round earth that's true, the Global Positioning System relies on satellites. On the flat earth it doesn't.

GPS requires no less than 24 satellites, and there would be no way for it to work through any other means.

Again, on a round earth you are (sorta) right. 24 is an arbitrary number. You could probably do it with 23. I'm pretty sure the absolute minimum would be somewhere around six, but it doesn't really matter. You're still thinking of GPS on a round earth, which the flat earth is, coincidentally, not.

[quot]Wether the earth is flat or round, that level of real time precision in positionning could not be done by any instruments restricted to remain on the ground.[/quote]
This assertion simply doesn't make sense at all.

Of course, it also means that Satellite T.V, does not exist either.

No, it just means that the term "satellite TV" is a misnomer. Your "satellite TV" dish on your roof is just a fancy looking radio antenna, recieving your high def channels from a broadcasting tower somewhere on the surface of the earth.

what's the homloguous term for globe here?

Disc.

Also, it means that the united states launched tactical nukes and missiles pretty much blindly (as they could not use satellite targeting which does not exist), but luckily for the rest of the world, they managed to hit their intended targets somehow.

When, pray tell, was the last time the US launched a tactical nuke?

That is all.

Cool!

You're a bit confused. There is no tampering; the GPS devices are designed and built with the FE system in mind.

Ok, so they want to hide the fact that the world is flat, but then they would basically put that information in a GPS device for anyone to see? Would the GPS explode if you would be to try and get that data? Because I could simply take it from the car. And how do you know that by the way?

As for misleading the pilots with it, that wouldn't be nearly as difficult as you make it out to be

Then please explain it to me.

On a round earth that's true, the Global Positioning System relies on satellites. On the flat earth it doesn't.

Why? Explain.

24 is an arbitrary number

how so?

You could probably do it with 23. I'm pretty sure the absolute minimum would be somewhere around six,

 How do you know?

This assertion simply doesn't make sense at all

Please explain how it is flawed.

No, it just means that the term "satellite TV" is a misnomer. Your "satellite TV" dish on your roof is just a fancy looking radio antenna, recieving your high def channels from a broadcasting tower somewhere on the surface of the earth.

For your information, radio signals are not that strong. But don't take my word for it, just trace the signal back to the emitter. (on another note, it's funny how every question about the holes in the FE theory keeps adding more groups to the conspiracy, we're adding satellite TV providers now)
Radio stations also use satellites by the way, so radio doesn't exist either.

When, pray tell, was the last time the US launched a tactical nuke?

What does that have to do with anything? You think they don't have nukes now? And that they would guide them through radio signals if they launch?
Also note that I said tactical nukes OR missiles (intercontinental balistic missiles if I must be more precise) but it seems you missed it so I'm repeating it here.

OK phaseshifter,
   Even the Conspiracy Conspiracy will correct you on these facts; ICBMs are "strategic" not "tactical".  

The only documented international use of Atomic bombs as tactical weaponry was in 1945 and delivered by aircraft (which maintained consistant contact via Radio.)

Various delivery systems have been developed and tested since: both "strategic"( ICBMs, mid-range systems, etc.) and "tactical" (gravity bombs and missiles, artillery shells, land mines, and depth charges and torpedoes), as have atomic weapons payloads of various types and yields.
Most tactical systems ordnance require only short range data tranmission,  if any.

 

Also, I personally checked military aircraft HF Radio in Hawaii by contacting a ground station in the Phillipines approx 10,000mi. West  across the pacific, @ sea- level.   So.... what do you consider "not that strong"about Radio signals?
And AM signals can bounce off the ionosphere thus extending range.

And how do you know that by the way?

Because the earth is flat, and my GPS says it is round. Therefor, the GPS must be lying.

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As for misleading the pilots with it, that wouldn't be nearly as difficult as you make it out to be

Then please explain it to me.

Change some distances, make some curved lines appear straight, that sort of thing.

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On a round earth that's true, the Global Positioning System relies on satellites. On the flat earth it doesn't.

Why? Explain.

You are a silly person. If the earth is flat, a tall radio tower will have a direct LOS to pretty much anywhere on earth. That's why you don't need satellites.

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24 is an arbitrary number

You could probably do it with 23. I'm pretty sure the absolute minimum would be somewhere around six,

 How do you know?

Because I'm pretty good at thinking spatially. Also, I passed 8th grade geometry, so I know what a sphere looks like.

Quote

This assertion simply doesn't make sense at all

Please explain how it is flawed.

You say that positioning equipment on the ground is incapable of achieving the same precision of something in the air. This is wrong. Thus, your assertion doesn't make sense.

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When, pray tell, was the last time the US launched a tactical nuke?

What does that have to do with anything? You think they don't have nukes now? And that they would guide them through radio signals if they launch?
Also note that I said tactical nukes OR missiles (intercontinental balistic missiles if I must be more precise) but it seems you missed it so I'm repeating it here.

Well now you're just flat out lying.

lso, it means that the united states launched tactical nukes and missiles pretty much blindly

"And" and "Or" are very different words. You said and, meaning both. As a result, what you said was wrong. Again.

Because the earth is flat, and my GPS says it is round. Therefor, the GPS must be lying

You have now lost all credibility and I will ignore the rest of your reply.

This sentence has absolutely no value, as it could be used to "prove" anything.

Because the earth is round, and my GPS says it is round. Therefore, the GPS must be correct.

Because cats fly, and the general public says they do not. Therefor, the general public must be lying.

Nothing personal, but I never discuss with people who use circular arguments. I will ignore any reply you make in any other topic.

Most tactical systems ordnance require only short range data tranmission, if any.

Most, not all. And I think we all know that they are no longer designed to be dropped by planes. Or there would be no point in silos.

Also, I personally checked military aircraft HF Radio in Hawaii by contacting a ground station in the Phillipines approx 10,000mi. West across the pacific, @ sea- level. So.... what do you consider "not that strong"about Radio signals?
And AM signals can bounce off the ionosphere thus extending range.

I don't know much about Am signals, other than that they are generally considered to be unreliable compared to FM. But I very much doubt I could use a radio from The groenland to call someone in africa.

What about the rest?
Would you care to explain satellite imaging?

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Because the earth is flat, and my GPS says it is round. Therefor, the GPS must be lying

You have now lost all credibility and I will ignore the rest of your reply.

This sentence has absolutely no value, as it could be used to "prove" anything.

Because the earth is round, and my GPS says it is round. Therefore, the GPS must be correct.

Because cats fly, and the general public says they do not. Therefor, the general public must be lying.

Nothing personal, but I never discuss with people who use circular arguments. I will ignore any reply you make in any other topic.

It would be certainly possible to design a "GPS" system that made a flat world seem round. Contact your local Topolgist and ask them how.

Most of us are obviously here because we believe the world is flat and by applying Occam's razor it seems a lot easier to believe that GPS systems are inaccurate rather than that the world is round.

It would be certainly possible to design a "GPS" system that made a flat world seem round. Contact your local Topolgist and ask them how.

Most of us are obviously here because we believe the world is flat and by applying Occam's razor it seems a lot easier to believe that GPS systems are inaccurate rather than that the world is round.[/quote]

If I meet a topologist, I'll make sure to ask him about GPS. But as there are no known flat worlds, I'm not sure that anyone would know how to make them look round through global positioning.


What is Occam's razor?

And I'm curious, in what way is it hard to beleive that the world is spherical?

What is Occam's razor?

Essentially, Occam's razor says that the least complicated theory is USUALLY right and is USUALLY the one you should believe in.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

What is Occam's razor?

Essentially, Occam's razor says that the least complicated theory is USUALLY right and is USUALLY the one you should believe in.

Then Occam's razor is stupid. Since simlicity is relative, that statement has no value. How do you effectively determine between 2 theories which is the simplest ? Different people have different definitions of what simplicity is, whose definition do we go by, and what dictates that choice?

I think plugging a DVD player is simple, but many other people would say it is complicated. Who decides which person's definition of simplicity is the right one?

Occam's razor is obviously an invalid theory since it is based on an arbitrary concept. It's like saying the ugly people shouldn't be trusted.

I think you should read just a little more about it before making yourself look even sillier.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

Essentially, Occam's razor says that the least complicated theory is USUALLY right and is USUALLY the one you should believe in.

Actually I think Occam's razor states that any scientific theory should make as few assumptions as possible, and should try to keep the theory free of unnecessary complications. Which implies that the simplest theory has a higher chance of being correct, but I don't think it actually says that you should believe the simpler theory.

Still waiting for the answer to satellite imagery............

The imagery can easily be taken from aircraft.

The imagery can easily be taken from aircraft.

Why havent we seen any?

Seen any what?  Airplanes?  I see them all the time.

You can also see satellites.

And that has to do with this, how?

Quote from: "TheEngineer"

The imagery can easily be taken from aircraft.

Why havent we seen any?

Because we would notice planes flying around all the time.

Because we would notice planes flying around all the time.

You don't see planes flying around? Do you live in the Amazon?

I think I'd notice if thousands of planes were flying over my house all the time.

Thousands of planes wouldn't need to fly over your house.

Thousands of planes wouldn't need to fly over your house.

If the imagery is taken from planes, there would have to be a plane flying above every point on earth where it is being used. Which would require several non-commercial planes to fly over most of the earth's surface at all times.

But that doesn't matter. Please explain this.

Satellite imagery is taken in real time. You could litterally look at yourself making complicated patters while driving around in your car.  And strangely, you could still do so whene there are NO planes flying aywhere near you.

Now consider this,. people can have satellite pictures of their houses taken. Why is it possible for you to have a satellite image of your house taken on a day where NO planes fly over your house?

A lot of people do not live close to a city or close to a flight zone. However, satellite imagery can still be used on those areas. Since SI is used on days where the weather is favorable, and the sky is mostly clear, how can those images be filmed by a plane, when you could look at the sky the whole day without ever seing a plane fly above you?

Explain that please.

Now consider this,. people can have satellite pictures of their houses taken. Why is it possible for you to have a satellite image of your house taken on a day where NO planes fly over your house?

It's not.

Satellite imagery is taken in real time. You could litterally look at yourself making complicated patters while driving around in your car.

You think the government would wast valuable strategic assets to provide 24/7 coverage of your driving ability?  I had my home built 2 years ago and the imagery of the area still shows the orchard that was leveled for my subdivision.  GoogleEarth and the others are not real-time.  

Now consider this,. people can have satellite pictures of their houses taken. Why is it possible for you to have a satellite image of your house taken on a day where NO planes fly over your house?

You sure have a strange concept of the state of modern technology.  How would you ever know if you were overflown by a high altitude recon plane or  even a UAV?  They are meant to not be noticed.
 

A lot of people do not live close to a city or close to a flight zone. However, satellite imagery can still be used on those areas. Since SI is used on days where the weather is favorable, and the sky is mostly clear, how can those images be filmed by a plane, when you could look at the sky the whole day without ever seing a plane fly above you?

Like I said.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Now consider this,. people can have satellite pictures of their houses taken. Why is it possible for you to have a satellite image of your house taken on a day where NO planes fly over your house?

It's not.

Disagreeing is not the same as explaining, explain how it is not possible, especially considering it does happen.

A smart person can spot a plane by surveying the sky at the moment they will be filmed/photographed, that smart person could use binoculars, and or a radar, and or thermal imaging and or a telescope to make sure that they do not miss the plane. That smart person could even ask several people to look out for the plane in the event that he/she would somehow miss it despite all his/her effort.

A smart person would also know that moving images are being taken since 2005 by the Australian company Astrovision.

However, if someone is not smart, they would not figure out that if they want to know if a plane is flying above them, they would have to look for it. And they'd probably wonder how they'd ever know that a plane is taking pictures of them on a clear day.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Satellite imagery is taken in real time. You could litterally look at yourself making complicated patters while driving around in your car.

You think the government would wast valuable strategic assets to provide 24/7 coverage of your driving ability?  I had my home built 2 years ago and the imagery of the area still shows the orchard that was leveled for my subdivision.  GoogleEarth and the others are not real-time.  

Quote

Now consider this,. people can have satellite pictures of their houses taken. Why is it possible for you to have a satellite image of your house taken on a day where NO planes fly over your house?

You sure have a strange concept of the state of modern technology.  How would you ever know if you were overflown by a high altitude recon plane or  even a UAV?  They are meant to not be noticed.
 

Quote

A lot of people do not live close to a city or close to a flight zone. However, satellite imagery can still be used on those areas. Since SI is used on days where the weather is favorable, and the sky is mostly clear, how can those images be filmed by a plane, when you could look at the sky the whole day without ever seing a plane fly above you?

Like I said.

*Punches TheEngineer in the face. Hard.*

That would be true if the earth is flat, and as there is loads of proof to the contrary I think its safe to say that you are wrong.

No, I can definitely say that I have never had a real time, satellite image of myself taken when there were no planes in the sky.

No, I can definitely say that I have never had a real time, satellite image of myself taken when there were no planes in the sky.

Please explain how it is not possible for satellite imagery to be used at a time when no planes fly above the area. Like I said, it has been done.

I want you to explain how it's impossible, not whether YOU have been photographed or not.  However,you can ask to have pics of your houses taken by satellite imagery ifyou want, you can ask them at what time the image will be taken, you can put something large/colorful outside at that time to make sure that the picture was actually taken at that time, and you can look directly above your house to see if there is a plane.