Burden of Proof

Burden of proof is soooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to understand.  How can you not get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof


Clearly it is the REers coming to the FLAT Earth Society who are making the allegations that what we believe is wrong.  If you're coming here to prove us wrong then you have to prove us wrong.  There is no doubt the burden of proof is on the REers.

Don't bother giving phaseshifter any actual reasons, I think he had a lobotomy before coming to this site. :lol:

Don't bother giving phaseshifter any actual reasons, I think he had a lobotomy before coming to this site. :lol:

luckily this site helped him gain a high bottom  :roll:  :?  :lol:

Burden of proof is soooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to understand.  How can you not get it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof


Clearly it is the REers coming to the FLAT Earth Society who are making the allegations that what we believe is wrong.  If you're coming here to prove us wrong then you have to prove us wrong.  There is no doubt the burden of proof is on the REers.

Maybe in your warped little mind but us in the real world know that if want to 'challenge the norm.' so to speak, then you have to back it up.

This is the Flat Earth Society.  We proclaim that the Earth is flat.  If you come to our society telling us that we are wrong you have to be able to prove it.

This is the Flat Earth Society.  We proclaim that the Earth is flat.  If you come to our society telling us that we are wrong you have to be able to prove it.

I am sick of this notion that FEtards continue to spout. Listen shitforbrains, the FET refutes over a thousand years of evidence that points to the earth being round. I'd say that as you are the ones that are saying that RE is bunk you are the ones that must put up not us.

Quote from: "beast"

This is the Flat Earth Society.  We proclaim that the Earth is flat.  If you come to our society telling us that we are wrong you have to be able to prove it.

I am sick of this notion that FEtards continue to spout. Listen shitforbrains, the FET refutes over a thousand years of evidence that points to the earth being round. I'd say that as you are the ones that are saying that RE is bunk you are the ones that must put up not us.

Yes the FES refutes tons of evidence, but the FES isn't trying to convince anybody. You are.

Maybe in your warped little mind but us in the real world know that if want to 'challenge the norm.' so to speak, then you have to back it up.

Yeah, exactly; if we went out into the real world and claimed the earth was flat, it would be up to us.

We don't do that. Instead, you come into our world and accuse us of having a faulty model. You're the one accusing us, so you've got to prove your claim.

Well, this is a forum on the internet, and anyone can join. So you pretty muc hexpose yourself to this kind of thing. It was to be expected.

Quote from: "Yardstick2006"

Maybe in your warped little mind but us in the real world know that if want to 'challenge the norm.' so to speak, then you have to back it up.

Yeah, exactly; if we went out into the real world and claimed the earth was flat, it would be up to us.

We don't do that. Instead, you come into our world and accuse us of having a faulty model. You're the one accusing us, so you've got to prove your claim.

Jesus Christ! YOU ARE THE ONES REFUTING EVERYTHING THAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT THE EARTHS SHAPE SO YOU NEED TO BACK IT UP.


Why even make a website if you have no intention of proving your theory?

Quote from: "Unimportant"

Quote from: "Yardstick2006"

Maybe in your warped little mind but us in the real world know that if want to 'challenge the norm.' so to speak, then you have to back it up.

Yeah, exactly; if we went out into the real world and claimed the earth was flat, it would be up to us.

We don't do that. Instead, you come into our world and accuse us of having a faulty model. You're the one accusing us, so you've got to prove your claim.

Jesus Christ! YOU ARE THE ONES REFUTING EVERYTHING THAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT THE EARTHS SHAPE SO YOU NEED TO BACK IT UP.


Why even make a website if you have no intention of proving your theory?

Why join a forum when you have no intention of proving anything?

Because the earth is round.

Prove it.

Well, this is a forum on the internet, and anyone can join. So you pretty muc hexpose yourself to this kind of thing. It was to be expected.

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

Jesus Christ! YOU ARE THE ONES REFUTING EVERYTHING THAT WE THINK WE KNOW ABOUT THE EARTHS SHAPE SO YOU NEED TO BACK IT UP.

Please tell me that you realize I could say the exact same thing to you.

Of course if you realized that you wouldn't have posted, so I don't know what to think.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Well, this is a forum on the internet, and anyone can join. So you pretty muc hexpose yourself to this kind of thing. It was to be expected.

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

No penguinface, if you say the earth is flat YOU have to back it up with proof and not heresay dbaced on what some Bible thumping retard thinks.

No penguinface, if you say the earth is flat YOU have to back it up with proof and not heresay dbaced on what some Bible thumping retard thinks.

Why is that? I could just as well say that if you say the Earth is round, so YOU have to back it up with proof. Just because the Round Earth Model is more generally accepted by the public doesn't mean that it's the one generally accepted in this society.

Also, I don't believe in the Bible.

~D-DRaw

Diego is correct, Us FErs, have what we believe, you have what you believe, now, this seems simple enough, but then you go on to try to say that we are wrong, so the burden of proof is on you

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is. That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid.

Quote from: "DiegoDraw"

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is. That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid.

This is just cut and paste from the Earth is a Cube topic. Give some ORIGINAL arguments.

Since phaseshifter can use cut and paste, I will too. Here's phaseshifter's post again.

Quote from: "DiegoDraw"

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is. That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid.

And now here's D-Draw's response to it.

Quote from: "Earthisround99"

If you come here with a theory that differentiates from The Flat Earth Theory, then you are the accusers, meaning you have to prove us wrong. Any other attempts at logic don't even make sense. Durr.


I did present proof in my FAQ. You the one who hasn't shown me anything to warrant that the earth is not a cube.

You answered questions, but you didn't manage to present any evidence. And, you forget the fact that I DID prove to you that the Earth is not a cube; you just happened to bypass that part.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Again, you are thinking incorrectly, especially in your examples.

Quote

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

That's not a valid example. The CORRECT way to put that example would be: You go into a Vampiric Dragon tournament forum and tell them that it is not a tournament-worthy card. Obviously, they're going to ask you why you think that, and you are in the position where you have to prove it.

Quote

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Again, you're incorrect. Corrected example: You go into an SNK game forum and tell them that you think that Capcom is better. They ask why, and you're required to prove that Capcom is better.

Quote

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is.

We don't say that we aren't going to show you anything, but if you're going to come and say, "You're wrong" and then leave, what's the point of proving anything?

Quote

That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

:lol:
Alienate newcomers...Don't want to alienate those aliens, hm?

Quote

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid. Even if it was, calling people morons would not be a good way of doing that either.

We do prove our point of view, but you have to give us something to prove, otherwise we can't prove a damned thing. Basically, the only way to counter you coming and saying, "The Earth is round" would be for us to say, "Nope, the Earth is flat." But hey, you guys aren't happy with that either. The point isn't for us to NOT prove our point EVER, it's that in order for us to DO so, you have to bring up the issues, and tell us what's wrong FIRST, otherwise we're stuck in a cycle of argument that is just plainly illogical.

Honest to God, what part of this completely logical concept do you guys not understand. IT'S SIMPLE! Freaking Christ...


~D-Draw

Now your post has been refuted again.

Quote from: "DiegoDraw"

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is. That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid.

FES, you just got pwned.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Quote from: "DiegoDraw"

No, no. It's not that we aren't expecting people to come in and attempt to refute it. The point was simply that you ARE coming in here trying to prove it. This is such a SIMPLE concept, why do you guys not get it? If this was "The Round Earth Society" and a bunch of guys who believed the Earth was flat, THEN we would need to prove our case, but it's the FLAT Earth society, hence you, who disagree with the ideas of the people here, YOU have to prove US wrong.
Is it that hard to understand? Honestly...


~D-Draw

When you make a website, or anything else for that matter (cult, religion political party, clan, discussion group ect.)

People will expect you to be able to prove that your point of view is not bullshit.

Ex:. People go into a cardgame forum and ask, "Hey guys, show me why you think Vampiric dragon is not a tournament worthy card" and people will explain with playtests results and game theory why it isn't.

You go into a fighting game forum and ask, "hey guys, show me why you think that SNK games are better than Capcom ones" People will show, through movies, game theory, per characte option and character balancing what their point of view is based on, and why it is valid.

Same thing with anything else. They won't go "no sir, you came to our site, we're not showing anything to you, YOU show us that Card X, or game X is not what we say it is. That would be seen as snobish to most people and would just alienate newcomers.

It's not realistic to think that people will come to your forum and NOT expect you to prove that your point of view is valid.

FES, you just got pwned.

YStick, did you even read D-Draw's response to this in Earth is a Cube? I quoted it here so that you would read it before making an idiotic comment. If you wish to dispute D-Draw's response, you can do so at the Earth is a Cube thread.

Yes, but it was stupid, you cant just set up a website saying that the earth is flat and then whine when people ask you to back it up.

I guess it's a good thing no one does that here then.

Now your post has been refuted again.

Hardly, considering. that his assumption. :

That's not a valid example. The CORRECT way to put that example would be: You go into a Vampiric Dragon tournament forum and tell them that it is not a tournament-worthy card. Obviously, they're going to ask you why you think that, and you are in the position where you have to prove it.

.

Is wrong. As can be proven by anyone going to a random forum and looking at the replies you'll get. I don't think even he beleives what he wrote to be true, it was just for the sake of disagreing. And by the way, pretty much every topic on general that question FE give reasons why they think it's bull. They don't just say, I think you guys are wrong" with nothing added.

Corrected example: You go into an SNK game forum and tell them that you think that Capcom is better. They ask why, and you're required to prove that Capcom is better.

What world do you live in? Try it if you want, people will be EAGER to show you that you're wong.

Alienate newcomers...Don't want to alienate those aliens, hm?

I'm going to assume you have no idea what the word means. As there does not seem to be a point to your sentence.

This is just cut and paste from the Earth is a Cube topic. Give some ORIGINAL arguments.

How is the fact that it was on another topic make it less pertinent? I don't follow your logic.

Like I said, try it. There are forums all over the internet.

Quote

Now your post has been refuted again.

Hardly, considering. that his assumption. :

Quote

That's not a valid example. The CORRECT way to put that example would be: You go into a Vampiric Dragon tournament forum and tell them that it is not a tournament-worthy card. Obviously, they're going to ask you why you think that, and you are in the position where you have to prove it.

.

Is wrong. As can be proven by anyone going to a random forum and looking at the replies you'll get. I don't think even he beleives what he wrote to be true, it was just for the sake of disagreing.

I don't know if you've noticed but we're talking about who the actual burden of proof falls upon.  There are plenty of times where the burden of proof doesn't fall on you, but you might try and prove what you're saying anyway - such as the example you gave.  That's great but it's got very little to do with what we're actually talking about - which is which side of the arguement is actually obliged to prove their statements.

If the Flat Earth Society were actually a repuatable scientific website attempting to promote to the world the fact that the Earth is actually flat then the burden of proof would definitely be on us.  However sadly that is not the case.  The Flat Earth Society makes no efforts at all to promote our views or our website.  We are not trying to convince anybody that what we say is actual literal fact.  In fact most of what we do is defend ourselves and make in-jokes at the expense of REers.  

I think it's pretty clear that if you're coming here telling us that we're wrong you have to prove why we're wrong.  If we seek you out and tell you that you're wrong we'd equally have to prove why you're wrong.

Quote

Corrected example: You go into an SNK game forum and tell them that you think that Capcom is better. They ask why, and you're required to prove that Capcom is better.

What world do you live in? Try it if you want, people will be EAGER to show you that you're wong.

It's not an issue of if they want to or not.  That's not what's being discussed.  It's an issue of who should have to prove who is wrong.

Quote

Alienate newcomers...Don't want to alienate those aliens, hm?

I'm going to assume you have no idea what the word means. As there does not seem to be a point to your sentence.

I'm going to assume you have no sense of humour since clearly that's an attempt at a joke.

I don't know if you've noticed but we're talking about who the actual burden of proof falls upon. There are plenty of times where the burden of proof doesn't fall on you,

read the previous replies beast. it was stated that the burden of proof falls on us  by default because it's not our forum. You don't need to take my word for it, just read it for yourself. That IS what was being discussed.

Yeah exactly - I don't understand what your point is or how it relates to my quote.

When I said "you" I didn't mean "you when you're on this forum" - I mean that in other discussions generally the burden of proof won't always fall on a general "you".  And in fact you totally took that comment out of context because the point I was making was that there are times when a person doesn't have the burden of proof but tries to prove their point anyway.

I guess it's a good thing no one does that here then.

Only in your twisted little mind.  :lol: