Religion

  • 69 Replies
  • 9731 Views
Religion
« on: March 30, 2013, 09:25:22 AM »
Out of interest, how many FErs have a strong faith?

I ask because I was speaking with a friend this afternoon, and we both agreed that the most frightening thing we had heard was from a fundamentalist who asked "if you don't believe in God, why are you good?". As though the questioner was effectively saying that "if I had no faith, I would be capable of anything".

Which leads me to the real question, which is:

Does religion lead people to do things that are worse than what they would do if they were unconstrained?
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

*

hoppy

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 11691
Re: Religion
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, 09:33:56 AM »
No one is good, no not one.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

Re: Religion
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 09:41:49 AM »
Th*rk is good.


he is.

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 09:52:19 AM »
Everyone knows what's good and bad, but many don't care if nobody sees it.

If you want to make a good person doing bad things, that's where ideology comes into play. Religion is still the best working one.

*

Pongo

  • Planar Moderator
  • 6753
Re: Religion
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 10:20:17 AM »
Which leads me to the real question, which is:

Does religion lead people to do things that are worse than what they would do if they were unconstrained?

Yes, unquestionably.

*

Tausami

  • Head Editor
  • Flat Earth Editor
  • 6767
  • Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: Religion
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2013, 10:24:58 AM »
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil that takes religion."
-Frederick Douglass

Personally, I'm agnostic. Don't know where we're going, and I'd rather enjoy the ride than worry about it.

*

rooster

  • 5663
Re: Religion
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2013, 10:56:36 AM »
My dad had a similar interpretation. He thinks that people without religion can justify any of their actions and so are naturally going to be immoral. I was rather offended since he's basically calling me immoral. But that's kinda retarded. You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethical. You don't need religion to have empathy for other people's well-being and treat people with respect and kindness. To not cheat, steal, murder, etc.

It was almost like he was saying that people without religion are sociopaths capable of rationalizing all of their cruel/negative/selfish actions.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 11:27:13 AM by rooster »

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 11:14:17 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.

*

rooster

  • 5663
Re: Religion
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2013, 11:25:38 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Welp, in that case better discount all the relevant ones.  ::)

*

Genius

  • 2180
  • Professor of Geniustology
Re: Religion
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2013, 11:26:34 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.

Well... yes... well done... I believe she wasn't talking about the few that are directly related to the Christian God's massive ego.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2013, 11:44:01 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Welp, in that case better discount all the relevant ones.  ::)

Now I counted even 4 commandments that an atheist would not care at all. Out of 10 total, that's 40%. Also, I would commit adultery...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 11:45:53 AM by Homesick Martian »

*

PizzaPlanet

  • 12255
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Religion
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2013, 11:45:18 AM »
Welp, in that case better discount all the relevant ones.  ::)
Yes, well, let's have a look.

1. No other gods pls - Irrelevant.
2. No idols - Irrelevant.
3. Don't say "omg" - Irrelevant.
4. lol Sabbath - Irrelevant.
5. Honour mum and dad - Irrelevant.

6. Don't kill - Sure, that's ethical.
7. No adultery - arguably ethical, but not really. I'll award half a point here.
8. Don't steal - Sure.
9. No false witness - k
10. Do not covet - k


I give this decalogue four and a half Parsifals out of ten.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

?

OMEGA MAN

  • 491
  • I AM A NUMBER NOT A MAN!
Re: Religion
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2013, 11:46:27 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?
BOLLOX.

*

Genius

  • 2180
  • Professor of Geniustology
Re: Religion
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2013, 11:50:58 AM »
Welp, in that case better discount all the relevant ones.  ::)
Yes, well, let's have a look.

1. No other gods pls - Irrelevant.
2. No idols - Irrelevant.
3. Don't say "omg" - Irrelevant.
4. lol Sabbath - Irrelevant.
5. Honour mum and dad - Irrelevant.

6. Don't kill - Sure, that's ethical.
7. No adultery - arguably ethical, but not really. I'll award half a point here.
8. Don't steal - Sure.
9. No false witness - k
10. Do not covet - k


I give this decalogue four and a half Parsifals out of ten.

1. No other gods pls - no k
2. No idols - no k
3. Don't say "omg" - no k
4. lol Sabbath - no k
5. Honour mum and dad - k
6. Don't kill - k
7. No adultery - k
8. Don't steal - k
9. No false witness - k
10. Do not covet - k


The earth is round because the space man said so.

*

PizzaPlanet

  • 12255
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Religion
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2013, 11:52:34 AM »
5. Honour mum and dad - k
But how is that ethics? Surely blindly respecting someone just because of family connections is questionable, to say the least.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2013, 11:54:23 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

*

Genius

  • 2180
  • Professor of Geniustology
Re: Religion
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2013, 11:55:53 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

Since when does bold symbolize shouting? I thought all capital letters did that?
The earth is round because the space man said so.

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2013, 11:59:06 AM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

Since when does bold symbolize shouting? I thought all capital letters did that?

So what does speaking in bolds symbolize?

*

Genius

  • 2180
  • Professor of Geniustology
Re: Religion
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2013, 12:00:35 PM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

Since when does bold symbolize shouting? I thought all capital letters did that?

So what does speaking in bolds symbolize?

Good question, but if he thinks it means shouting, he's wrong.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2013, 12:07:52 PM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

Since when does bold symbolize shouting? I thought all capital letters did that?

So what does speaking in bolds symbolize?

Good question, but if he thinks it means shouting, he's wrong.

AND WHAT WOULD IT MEAN IF I WERE TALKING THIS WAY?

edit: the italisized is hardly visible here
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 12:09:30 PM by Homesick Martian »

*

Genius

  • 2180
  • Professor of Geniustology
Re: Religion
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2013, 12:11:21 PM »
Quote
You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethica

At least two of these commandmends don't give much sense if you are not religious.
Are you referring to the commandments about idols and worshipping other gods?

Why are you shouting all the time?

Since when does bold symbolize shouting? I thought all capital letters did that?

So what does speaking in bolds symbolize?

Good question, but if he thinks it means shouting, he's wrong.

AND WHAT WOULD IT MEAN IF I WERE TALKING THIS WAY?

edit: the italisized is hardly visible here

Ya'll just broke the system. Nah, I think it'd be just shouting, because of the capitals. I know italics mean emphasis, so emphasized shouting perhaps.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

?

OMEGA MAN

  • 491
  • I AM A NUMBER NOT A MAN!
Re: Religion
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2013, 12:12:06 PM »
Welp, in that case better discount all the relevant ones.  ::)
Yes, well, let's have a look.

1. No other gods pls - Irrelevant.
2. No idols - Irrelevant.
3. Don't say "omg" - Irrelevant.
4. lol Sabbath - Irrelevant.
5. Honour mum and dad - Irrelevant.

6. Don't kill - Sure, that's ethical.
7. No adultery - arguably ethical, but not really. I'll award half a point here.
8. Don't steal - Sure.
9. No false witness - k
10. Do not covet - k


I give this decalogue four and a half Parsifals out of ten.

1. No other gods = Totally relevant, the more gods one has in society, the more fractured society becomes.
2. No idols = Similar to above, idols can also mean the worship of money. Look what is happening in society because 1% of the worlds population has 99% of the wealth. It leads to slavery!
3. Don't take gods name in vain = A lot of confusion on the meaning. It has nothing to do with swearing but means having no faith in god.
4. Keeping the Sabbath = You should be glad because the Sabbath was made for man,s benefit and not gods i.e no rest = slavery.
5. Honour mother and father = A very simple construct, the family unit is what holds society together.
6. Don't kill = obvious.
7.  Adultery = Destroys the family unit.
8. Theft = Obvious.
9. Giving false witness = Protects the innocent and condems the guilty.
10. Do not covet = This single vice can lead to all of the above.
BOLLOX.

*

PizzaPlanet

  • 12255
  • Now available in stereo
Re: Religion
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2013, 12:31:57 PM »
7. No adultery - arguably ethical, but not really. I'll award half a point here.

Don't forget that Biblical "adultery" includes sodomy and any form of sex before marriage as well. Given the context, which I think is important to consider, I feel your half-point is overly generous.
I absolutely agree that it's generous, but I wanted to highlight the fact that it's more relevant to ethics than, say, "be nice to mum and dad".

It's been pointed out before that this commandment is literally an injunction against personal ambition. Why are such thoughts, in and of themselves, unethical?
I don't think it's meant to be understood quite so literally. Christianity often acknowledges the "impure" nature of people's thoughts. It's acting upon such thoughts that's problematic. With that in mind, trying to steal someone's wife is a bit of a dick move.
hacking your precious forum as we speak 8) 8) 8)

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2013, 01:09:42 PM »
Ok, gonna preach you the truth now.

In fact we need only one commandment: Thou shalt not lie!

For if thou refrainst from lying,dude, there's no way that henceforth thou couldst further harm anyone for thy own benefit. An ally thou wilt be to thy neighbour. Yep.

Behold, since every Good hath its source from Truth, every Evil hath its source from the Lie? Get it?

But if you have a society of liars you need morals to keep them together. Turns out morals is the secret means to protect us from speaking the truth.

Bethink, convert and what's your account number?

« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 01:15:41 PM by Homesick Martian »

?

OMEGA MAN

  • 491
  • I AM A NUMBER NOT A MAN!
Re: Religion
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2013, 01:23:00 PM »
Ok, gonna preach you the truth now.

In fact we need only one commandment: Thou shalt not lie!

For if thou refrainst from lying,dude, there's no way that henceforth thou couldst further harm anyone for thy own benefit. An ally thou wilt be to thy neighbour. Yep.

Behold, since every Good hath its source from Truth, every Evil hath its source from the Lie? Get it?

But if you have a society of liars you need morals to keep them together. Turns out morals is the secret means to protect us from speaking the truth.

Bethink, convert and what's your account number?
Excellent post Homesick Martian. I think you may have a future in moral philosopy and ethics. :)
BOLLOX.

?

Homesick Martian

  • 419
  • Hardcore Zetetic Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2013, 02:31:36 PM »
Ok, gonna preach you the truth now.

In fact we need only one commandment: Thou shalt not lie!

For if thou refrainst from lying,dude, there's no way that henceforth thou couldst further harm anyone for thy own benefit. An ally thou wilt be to thy neighbour. Yep.

Behold, since every Good hath its source from Truth, every Evil hath its source from the Lie? Get it?

But if you have a society of liars you need morals to keep them together. Turns out morals is the secret means to protect us from speaking the truth.

Bethink, convert and what's your account number?
Excellent post Homesick Martian. I think you may have a future in moral philosopy and ethics. :)

You've just killed my religion, bro.

?

squevil

  • Official Member
  • 3184
  • Im Telling On You
Re: Religion
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2013, 02:58:34 PM »
The problem is Christianity, not religion. Sikhism, for example has a fine moral code. One I try to practice anyway.

?

OMEGA MAN

  • 491
  • I AM A NUMBER NOT A MAN!
Re: Religion
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2013, 03:18:52 PM »
The problem is Christianity, not religion. Sikhism, for example has a fine moral code. One I try to practice anyway.
Sikhism? I think you will find Sikhism of off limits to outsiders. You have to be born a Sikh and those not born Sikh are held to be inferior, in fact they believe that non-Sikh's have no mortal soul!
They also have no hesitation about burning non-Sikh's alive. Yeah...great belief system!
 THIS IS SIKH LOVE
BOLLOX.

?

Blanko

  • 7206
  • Terrorist
Re: Religion
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2013, 03:19:08 PM »
My dad had a similar interpretation. He thinks that people without religion can justify any of their actions and so are naturally going to be immoral. I was rather offended since he's basically calling me immoral. But that's kinda retarded. You don't need religion to still believe that the Ten Commandments are ethical. You don't need religion to have empathy for other people's well-being and treat people with respect and kindness. To not cheat, steal, murder, etc.

It was almost like he was saying that people without religion are sociopaths capable of rationalizing all of their cruel/negative/selfish actions.

I find it extremely irritating when Christians believe you cannot comprehend morality outside the Bible. You still need to understand the concepts of good and bad to justify Bible's teachings as being moral guidelines and to see if they have validity behind them. And to question them as well - why can a modern Christian have doubts about homosexuality being sinful?

Then again, I also find it irritating when they do think it isn't a sin. They're pretty much told to blindly believe everything their holy book tells them, and they can't even do that right.

*

Pongo

  • Planar Moderator
  • 6753
Re: Religion
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2013, 03:19:48 PM »
Before the ten commandments came along, no one knew that killing other people was wrong. We should all literally thank God for that little chestnut.