Convention!

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Convention!
« on: March 23, 2013, 02:44:20 PM »
I think we should have a flat earth convention.

A live forum where FErs and RErs can get together to have a proper debate. 

There are enough of us here to get a decent discount from a conference hotel, so if we pick a weekend we can do it properly.  We can have lectures from the Flat Earthers, lectures from the Round Earthers, and breakout areas for those who are not either mainstream Flat Earthers or Round Earthers.

I myself believe in a round earth, but if the flat earthers intend to be taken seriously they should stand up and be counted.

I would be happy to organise this; is anyone interested?

If so, what location and time of year would be best?
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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Thork

Re: Convention!
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2013, 03:23:41 PM »
Super. I live in the United Kingdom. Will you be paying for my air fare?

Also
lectures from the Round Earthers
This would make me want to rip my eyes out and throw them at the speaker. Why would you want lectures from Round Earthers? We all know the round earth theory.

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Genius

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2013, 03:26:20 PM »
As long as you set your sights low, such as trying to get a few cocky, sure of themselves Round Earthers with a decent library of knowledge on the topic, then you can possibly destroy them in debate and work your way up, attracting bigger names who may not have taken you seriously before, but will now that you've beaten some minor or no names.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

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Thork

Re: Convention!
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2013, 03:27:50 PM »
As long as you set your sights low, such as trying to get a few cocky, sure of themselves Round Earthers with a decent library of knowledge on the topic, then you can possibly destroy them in debate and work your way up, attracting bigger names who may not have taken you seriously before, but will now that you've beaten some minor or no names.
I'm now imagining some kind of montage ...

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Genius

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2013, 03:32:53 PM »
As long as you set your sights low, such as trying to get a few cocky, sure of themselves Round Earthers with a decent library of knowledge on the topic, then you can possibly destroy them in debate and work your way up, attracting bigger names who may not have taken you seriously before, but will now that you've beaten some minor or no names.
I'm now imagining some kind of montage ...

Nothing wrong with a good ol' montage.
The earth is round because the space man said so.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2013, 08:01:15 PM »
Physical violence would be very likely. :-\

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jason_85

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2013, 08:37:25 PM »
Cool idea but it might be impractical as we all live so far away. I'm in Australia. Plus a debate on this topic would really have to be based on the validity of the scientific method and the acceptance of axioms. The scientific method employed from the perspective of a scientist with access to public information through application of Occam's razor leads to the conclusion that the earth is round, so a debate would have to centre around the validity of that method.

Such an approach might anchor the discussion and help also to filter out the nutbags, but it would be less entertaining.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2013, 08:39:00 PM by jason_85 »
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2013, 08:38:07 PM »
I'm in Australia.

You'd be stuck with Parsifal.

Re: Convention!
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 01:12:43 AM »
Super. I live in the United Kingdom. Will you be paying for my air fare?

I live in the UK too.  I thought we could have it here because it seemed as though most of the posters were UK based (on the basis of use of UK idiom in posting).

Physical violence would be very likely. :-\

I thought we should all pay a bit extra for security.

Cool idea but it might be impractical as we all live so far away. I'm in Australia. Plus a debate on this topic would really have to be based on the validity of the scientific method and the acceptance of axioms. The scientific method employed from the perspective of a scientist with access to public information through application of Occam's razor leads to the conclusion that the earth is round, so a debate would have to centre around the validity of that method.

Such an approach might anchor the discussion and help also to filter out the nutbags, but it would be less entertaining.

I was hoping to get the nutbags.  We could have several different sessions and I was thinking that most of them would be nutbag friendly. 
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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jason_85

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 11:52:38 PM »
As long as you set your sights low, such as trying to get a few cocky, sure of themselves Round Earthers with a decent library of knowledge on the topic, then you can possibly destroy them in debate and work your way up, attracting bigger names who may not have taken you seriously before, but will now that you've beaten some minor or no names.

Yeah just get bullhorn in the crowd, I'll try to prove that 1+1=2 and he'll destroy me with a series of well thought out and rational counterarguments. Then I'll mention nuclear power and BAM!, sceptimatic will tear me to shreds with his sharp wits and demonstrated understanding of the topic and ability to think in a straight line...

Before I get a chance to even mention those NASA pics, that dude with the smug profile pic who does the wiki will raise his hand, say "photoshopped" and I will be completely blown away, unable to retort.

The film crews will of course record the whole event, and soon enough academics and students of knowledge from all across the globe will come and take flat earth theory completely seriously.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: Convention!
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2013, 05:10:06 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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jason_85

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2013, 05:23:48 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

On a serious note, to me it's frightening what people can let themselves think. I used to believe the atrocities of human history could only be committed by evil people, but I can honestly say that this forum has changed my view on that. I always knew you could make people do anything if you can make them believe, but this place is living proof that there is no limit to what some people will believe if it appeals to some lesser sense of superiority, self-worth or paranoia.

If someone can believe the earth is flat when it's, well, not, then there really is no limit to the moral or ethical foundations you could break in that person with the right tools.
Jason, you are my least favorite noob.

Re: Convention!
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2013, 06:07:51 AM »
I think that was very well said.

I don't know about you, but I started out finding the whole thing amusing.  That amusement fades as you realise that some of the posters really do believe what they are saying, and really do take things to heart.  I find it quite saddening.
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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Sculder

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  • Me and Mully
Re: Convention!
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2013, 06:45:47 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

Two guys are looking at an image:



One of the is a Straight Line theorist (SLt); the other one is a Curved Line theorist (CLt).

CLt: It's obvious that the two lines are curved. It's as clear as daylight.
SLt: No, they're not. The two lines are straight and parallel; it only appears to you that that they are not.
CLt: Look, my eyes are fine and the line curvature is obvious. Are you telling me not to trust my own two eyes?
SLt: I'm telling you that the world around us is not exactly the way our senses and our intuition tells us it is. I'll prove it.

The Straight Line theorist produces a ruler and shows the other guy that the two lines are indeed straight and parallel.

CLt: That proves nothing!
SLt: But I've just showed you with a ruler!
CLt: Rulers are obviously manufactured by companies that want to perpetrate the notion that these lines are straight when it's obvious that it's not. And the government is in on it.
SLt: So you're saying there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
CLt: Yes.
SLt: Does that mean I'm involved?
CLt: No. You simply don't know any better because you've been indoctrinated to think the lines are straight when your own two eyes tell you differently.
SLt: But science easily explains it!
CLt: Your science is wrong. I'd rather trust my own eyes than your "science".

This is just a joke and should be taken as such.
I don't want to believe.

Re: Convention!
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 07:05:17 AM »
Sculder, that pretty much sums the whole thing up!
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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sceptimatic

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 07:37:15 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

Two guys are looking at an image:



One of the is a Straight Line theorist (SLt); the other one is a Curved Line theorist (CLt).

CLt: It's obvious that the two lines are curved. It's as clear as daylight.
SLt: No, they're not. The two lines are straight and parallel; it only appears to you that that they are not.
CLt: Look, my eyes are fine and the line curvature is obvious. Are you telling me not to trust my own two eyes?
SLt: I'm telling you that the world around us is not exactly the way our senses and our intuition tells us it is. I'll prove it.

The Straight Line theorist produces a ruler and shows the other guy that the two lines are indeed straight and parallel.

CLt: That proves nothing!
SLt: But I've just showed you with a ruler!
CLt: Rulers are obviously manufactured by companies that want to perpetrate the notion that these lines are straight when it's obvious that it's not. And the government is in on it.
SLt: So you're saying there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
CLt: Yes.
SLt: Does that mean I'm involved?
CLt: No. You simply don't know any better because you've been indoctrinated to think the lines are straight when your own two eyes tell you differently.
SLt: But science easily explains it!
CLt: Your science is wrong. I'd rather trust my own eyes than your "science".

This is just a joke and should be taken as such.
You are actually proving a flat earth outlook with that diagram. Did you realise that?

Re: Convention!
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 07:55:47 AM »
Is your ruler straight or curved?
The video demonstrates that we can not fully trust our senses.

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Sculder

  • 113
  • Me and Mully
Re: Convention!
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 08:30:26 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

Two guys are looking at an image:



One of the is a Straight Line theorist (SLt); the other one is a Curved Line theorist (CLt).

CLt: It's obvious that the two lines are curved. It's as clear as daylight.
SLt: No, they're not. The two lines are straight and parallel; it only appears to you that that they are not.
CLt: Look, my eyes are fine and the line curvature is obvious. Are you telling me not to trust my own two eyes?
SLt: I'm telling you that the world around us is not exactly the way our senses and our intuition tells us it is. I'll prove it.

The Straight Line theorist produces a ruler and shows the other guy that the two lines are indeed straight and parallel.

CLt: That proves nothing!
SLt: But I've just showed you with a ruler!
CLt: Rulers are obviously manufactured by companies that want to perpetrate the notion that these lines are straight when it's obvious that it's not. And the government is in on it.
SLt: So you're saying there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
CLt: Yes.
SLt: Does that mean I'm involved?
CLt: No. You simply don't know any better because you've been indoctrinated to think the lines are straight when your own two eyes tell you differently.
SLt: But science easily explains it!
CLt: Your science is wrong. I'd rather trust my own eyes than your "science".

This is just a joke and should be taken as such.
You are actually proving a flat earth outlook with that diagram. Did you realise that?
Nah. It's just a hypothetical discussion between someone who trusts science above his own senses and intuition and someone who rejects science in favor of what his senses and intuition tell him.

That or it's an inconsequential joke.  :)
I don't want to believe.

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Tausami

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 08:37:46 AM »
I hope you're having fun with your little unintentionally ironic circle jerk. I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific reasons. My feelings of superiority over you are for completely different reasons.

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markjo

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 09:10:54 AM »
I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific zetetic reasons.

Fixed, because science says that the earth is round.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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Tausami

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 09:13:10 AM »
I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific zetetic reasons.

Fixed, because science says I think that the earth is round.

Fixed, because you've been on this forum for years and have yet to demonstrate this to be the case.

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markjo

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 09:58:51 AM »
I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific zetetic reasons.

Fixed, because science says I think that the earth is round.

Fixed, because you've been on this forum for years and have yet to demonstrate this to be the case.

And in all that time, FE'ers have failed to convince me that the earth is flat.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Convention!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 10:10:18 AM »
We could all just meet up at the official FE Musuem Grand Opening.
They have a "Soft open" a week from today from 5-8 PM.
It says on their website that the first 100 guests will recieve a free T-shirt. Appetizers and drinks will be served as well.

See all you guys there!

Re: Convention!
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 07:14:15 PM »
You should just create a caterigory for the debate of RETist and FETist on the forums cause a convention would be costy

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Foxy

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  • but it did happen
Re: Convention!
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 09:02:22 PM »
You should just create a caterigory for the debate of RETist and FETist on the forums cause a convention would be costy

The board called Flat Earth Debate can be found here:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/board,10.0.html
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 09:04:10 PM by Berstram Jones »

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squevil

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2013, 10:35:46 PM »
wouldnt it be easier to arrange a skype conference?  ???

isnt it sad when people know who sceptic is and not bishop.

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Thork

Re: Convention!
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2013, 02:30:44 AM »
I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific zetetic reasons.

Fixed, because science says I think that the earth is round.

Fixed, because you've been on this forum for years and have yet to demonstrate this to be the case.

And in all that time, FE'ers have failed to convince me that the earth is flat.
If we admit defeat, will you leave us alone?

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Homesick Martian

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2013, 05:40:38 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

Two guys are looking at an image:



One of the is a Straight Line theorist (SLt); the other one is a Curved Line theorist (CLt).

CLt: It's obvious that the two lines are curved. It's as clear as daylight.
SLt: No, they're not. The two lines are straight and parallel; it only appears to you that that they are not.
CLt: Look, my eyes are fine and the line curvature is obvious. Are you telling me not to trust my own two eyes?
SLt: I'm telling you that the world around us is not exactly the way our senses and our intuition tells us it is. I'll prove it.

The Straight Line theorist produces a ruler and shows the other guy that the two lines are indeed straight and parallel.

CLt: That proves nothing!
SLt: But I've just showed you with a ruler!
CLt: Rulers are obviously manufactured by companies that want to perpetrate the notion that these lines are straight when it's obvious that it's not. And the government is in on it.
SLt: So you're saying there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
CLt: Yes.
SLt: Does that mean I'm involved?
CLt: No. You simply don't know any better because you've been indoctrinated to think the lines are straight when your own two eyes tell you differently.
SLt: But science easily explains it!
CLt: Your science is wrong. I'd rather trust my own eyes than your "science".

This is just a joke and should be taken as such.

I never thought about it, but why should I trust a ruler more than my eyes? They are both finite things.

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markjo

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Re: Convention!
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2013, 06:20:30 AM »
I assure you, I believe FET for purely scientific zetetic reasons.

Fixed, because science says I think that the earth is round.

Fixed, because you've been on this forum for years and have yet to demonstrate this to be the case.

And in all that time, FE'ers have failed to convince me that the earth is flat.
If we admit defeat, will you leave us alone?
What fun would that be?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

Sculder

  • 113
  • Me and Mully
Re: Convention!
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2013, 07:04:24 AM »
It's depressing, don't you think?  The complete failure of human reasoning.

Two guys are looking at an image:



One of the is a Straight Line theorist (SLt); the other one is a Curved Line theorist (CLt).

CLt: It's obvious that the two lines are curved. It's as clear as daylight.
SLt: No, they're not. The two lines are straight and parallel; it only appears to you that that they are not.
CLt: Look, my eyes are fine and the line curvature is obvious. Are you telling me not to trust my own two eyes?
SLt: I'm telling you that the world around us is not exactly the way our senses and our intuition tells us it is. I'll prove it.

The Straight Line theorist produces a ruler and shows the other guy that the two lines are indeed straight and parallel.

CLt: That proves nothing!
SLt: But I've just showed you with a ruler!
CLt: Rulers are obviously manufactured by companies that want to perpetrate the notion that these lines are straight when it's obvious that it's not. And the government is in on it.
SLt: So you're saying there's a conspiracy to hide the truth.
CLt: Yes.
SLt: Does that mean I'm involved?
CLt: No. You simply don't know any better because you've been indoctrinated to think the lines are straight when your own two eyes tell you differently.
SLt: But science easily explains it!
CLt: Your science is wrong. I'd rather trust my own eyes than your "science".

This is just a joke and should be taken as such.

I never thought about it, but why should I trust a ruler more than my eyes? They are both finite things.

A ruler is a (basic) scientific instrument built to (a) be straight and (b) to measure distances, both within reasonably small margins for error. The human eye is not.
I don't want to believe.