I know you guys must get this all the time but...

Why would all the governments of the world possibly be involved in a huge conspiracy that ranges from NASA and the like all the way down to basic level school science lessons?

I fail to see what could be gained from such a thing. Are they supposed to be hiding something beyond the edge of the world? And if so, have they been hiding it for thousands of years? Who would have decided in the first place to create the conspiracy, given the enormous amount of effort it would take to originally fabricate, let alone how hard it would be to continue the ruse throughout the entire history of civilization? And again, why would someone choose to deny the whole population of the world something that is generally held to be a constant, i.e. "The world is round"?

You would probably expect by now that at least one person from inside the conspiracy would have managed to have broken ranks and told the outside world, or is that what happened for this theory to come about in the first place?

If the world was flat surely somebody would by now, after so many thousands of years of civilization, have come up with some irrefutable proof. Obviously the FE'ers would, and probably are going to say that there is no such proof to show that the world is round and if you genuinely believe in the conspiracy then that is "true", at least in your own mind, in the same way that the commonly held belief in the round world is "true" in our minds.

Also, how would a flat earth be created? The very nature of gravity means that matter in the vacuum of space would be attracted to the central point  of larger bodies of matter and would then build up around that point to create a round body. A flat world would either require a completely different law of physics, a bizarre freak act of the current understanding of physics or some kind of intelligent design, which you really don't want to get me started on.

That said, I respect the fervour with which you manage to stick to your guns in the face of what can only be described as overwhelming opposition, but I personally will think of this theory the same way I think of religion; there just seems to be too much evidence against it and not nearly enough for it.

And please, don't ask me to provide proof of my beliefs because I can't, the same way FE'ers couldn't convince me their beliefs, I just felt I had to ask some questions that were on my mind. Pretty pointless post in all really, especially as I'm sure they've all been asked before. Oh well.

Of course if I see on the news tomorrow that the conspiracy was real and the world is in fact flat then I will be the first one here to say I was wrong.

They're probably going to tell you to use the search function to search through hundreds of threads where there is only one where the question might be answered.
I haven't heard a decent reason so far.

I know you guys must get this all the time but...

Yep!

The general consensus is power. Or maybe aliens. It doesn't matter.

The general consensus is power. Or maybe aliens. It doesn't matter.

That can't be really why you think the governments fighting so hard to keep this quite. Very vague if you ask me ... given that it is a very pertinent point on this forum.

What power could possibly be achieved from pretending the earth is round?

Why would all the governments of the world possibly be involved in a huge conspiracy that ranges from NASA and the like all the way down to basic level school science lessons?

I fail to see what could be gained from such a thing. Are they supposed to be hiding something beyond the edge of the world? And if so, have they been hiding it for thousands of years? Who would have decided in the first place to create the conspiracy, given the enormous amount of effort it would take to originally fabricate, let alone how hard it would be to continue the ruse throughout the entire history of civilization? And again, why would someone choose to deny the whole population of the world something that is generally held to be a constant, i.e. "The world is round"?

You would probably expect by now that at least one person from inside the conspiracy would have managed to have broken ranks and told the outside world, or is that what happened for this theory to come about in the first place?

If the world was flat surely somebody would by now, after so many thousands of years of civilization, have come up with some irrefutable proof. Obviously the FE'ers would, and probably are going to say that there is no such proof to show that the world is round and if you genuinely believe in the conspiracy then that is "true", at least in your own mind, in the same way that the commonly held belief in the round world is "true" in our minds.

Also, how would a flat earth be created? The very nature of gravity means that matter in the vacuum of space would be attracted to the central point  of larger bodies of matter and would then build up around that point to create a round body. A flat world would either require a completely different law of physics, a bizarre freak act of the current understanding of physics or some kind of intelligent design, which you really don't want to get me started on.

That said, I respect the fervour with which you manage to stick to your guns in the face of what can only be described as overwhelming opposition, but I personally will think of this theory the same way I think of religion; there just seems to be too much evidence against it and not nearly enough for it.

And please, don't ask me to provide proof of my beliefs because I can't, the same way FE'ers couldn't convince me their beliefs, I just felt I had to ask some questions that were on my mind. Pretty pointless post in all really, especially as I'm sure they've all been asked before. Oh well.

Of course if I see on the news tomorrow that the conspiracy was real and the world is in fact flat then I will be the first one here to say I was wrong.

The argument:

If the world is round(sphereical if you will), the (acceptable) information leading to that conclusion is true*.

If the world is NOT round, the (acceptable) information leading to that conclusion is false.

If P, then Q.
Not P
Not Q

----------------------


If the world is not round, then the information claiming it is must be false.  This is a valid argument.  The explanation for the information being false is that there is a conspiracy to promote RE thought.  I postulate that the conspiracy merely needed to spark the RE as common knowledge to carry this out.  Based on this, people do their studies based on the round Earth's information and don't find anything in conflict since they are doing so on those terms.

*the (acceptable) information leading to that conclusion is true - This means all credible information reguarding the shape of Earth and the mechanisms behind it on which the scientific community finds acceptance (meaning most of it).  "Any information reguarding a round world" would invalidate the argument as there is obviously false information reguarding the round world.

If the world is not round, then the information claiming it is must be false. This is a valid argument. The explanation for the information being false is that there is a conspiracy to promote RE thought. I postulate that the conspiracy merely needed to spark the RE as common knowledge to carry this out. Based on this, people do their studies based on the round Earth's information and don't find anything in conflict since they are doing so on those terms.

*the (acceptable) information leading to that conclusion is true - This means all credible information reguarding the shape of Earth and the mechanisms behind it on which the scientific community finds acceptance (meaning most of it). "Any information reguarding a round world" would invalidate the argument as there is obviously false information reguarding the round world.

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence. There is none. Whatsoever. Therefore the conspiracy is whack. Therefore your theory is whack. The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence.

What makes you think there is no evidence of the conspiracy? Surely you've seen those dumb 9/11 conspiracy videos; they have all kinds of evidence.

The evidence is that they say the earth is round, when it's not. What more do you need?

The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

What's wrong with my aliens explanation?

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Quote from: "soggycrouton"

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence.

What makes you think there is no evidence of the conspiracy? Surely you've seen those dumb 9/11 conspiracy videos; they have all kinds of evidence.

The evidence is that they say the earth is round, when it's not. What more do you need?

Yet even those videos have evidence aside from "9/11 was faked, therefore there must be a conpiracy". Yet you have none. Using your assumption is not valid evidence, when the assumption itself is what is in question

Quote

The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

What's wrong with my aliens explanation?

I can't recall the exact specifics of the alien explanation, but bringing aliens into it at all is intrinsically problematic. The RE theory,on the other hand, requires no aliens.

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Yet it has been conceded that the conpiracy would have had to be going on longer than this. Additionally, the difficulty of controlling all airline pilots and ship captains would cancel out any advantages from the space program.

Okay, fine, you guys have motives, they're just STUPID motives.

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

Quote from: "Dogplatter"

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

If they say that money's going into the space program, but it's going into the pockets of government people, then they're making money.

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "Dogplatter"

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

If they say that money's going into the space program, but it's going into the pockets of government people, then they're making money.

In no way, did that answer my question as to how the donations pay off all the stuff they build.  Even if they made cheap attempts from making stuff from plasic, that still wouldn't pay off all of the stuff that I have even seen in person.

You didn't see anything.
You were either brainwashed or are a part of the conspiracy.
w00t!

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence. There is none. Whatsoever. Therefore the conspiracy is whack. Therefore your theory is whack. The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

I'm sorry, soggycrouton, it seems you had the "bs" box checked before you posted.

Uncheck it and post again.

Quote from: "holybrain"

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "Dogplatter"

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

If they say that money's going into the space program, but it's going into the pockets of government people, then they're making money.

In no way, did that answer my question as to how the donations pay off all the stuff they build.  Even if they made cheap attempts from making stuff from plasic, that still wouldn't pay off all of the stuff that I have even seen in person.

If I don't get a good answer to this question in a week.  I'll just assume that you guys haven't figured this whole theory yet, and you don't really know what you're talking about.  I know that you'll probably either attempt a dumb answer or not answer at all, and I'll be fine with that, but if you can't "really" answer it, then you should probably consider getting out of this society.

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "holybrain"

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "Dogplatter"

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

If they say that money's going into the space program, but it's going into the pockets of government people, then they're making money.

In no way, did that answer my question as to how the donations pay off all the stuff they build.  Even if they made cheap attempts from making stuff from plasic, that still wouldn't pay off all of the stuff that I have even seen in person.

If I don't get a good answer to this question in a week.  I'll just assume that you guys haven't figured this whole theory yet, and you don't really know what you're talking about.  I know that you'll probably either attempt a dumb answer or not answer at all, and I'll be fine with that, but if you can't "really" answer it, then you should probably consider getting out of this society.

What "stuff" have you seen? Plastic isn't that expensive, and millions of dollars are going each year into the space program (if is does exist).

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "holybrain"

Quote from: "Sgt. Pepper"

Quote from: "Dogplatter"

They make a ton of money from the fake space program, that's why.

Why would they make money?  Maybe money from donations, but all of that money usually goes to the alien finder organizations, and from what I hear, they don't get enough to pay off the huge spaceships, buildings, satellites, and robots they build.

If they say that money's going into the space program, but it's going into the pockets of government people, then they're making money.

In no way, did that answer my question as to how the donations pay off all the stuff they build.  Even if they made cheap attempts from making stuff from plasic, that still wouldn't pay off all of the stuff that I have even seen in person.

If I don't get a good answer to this question in a week.  I'll just assume that you guys haven't figured this whole theory yet, and you don't really know what you're talking about.  I know that you'll probably either attempt a dumb answer or not answer at all, and I'll be fine with that, but if you can't "really" answer it, then you should probably consider getting out of this society.

What "stuff" have you seen? Plastic isn't that expensive, and millions of dollars are going each year into the space program (if is does exist).

I'll just say, I've seen a lot since I have a friend who is an astronaut who will show us around once in a while.  I've been inside a few of the buildings, and they are certainly not plastic, I've been up close to quite a few satellites for space purposes, and they certainly don't look plastic.  Did you ever consider that instead of making a whole space program to see if people would possibly give donations to make money, that governments could just CHARGE people more money on taxes?  Then if people protested against them, stating that they are using the money for purposes to go to war, they could just say they aren't and are using a lot of it to help disease prevention places.  They could certainly give a few bucks to those places to prove they are, rather than make a huge theory of stating the earth is flat.  I don't think they make money by saying the earth is flat, they'll usually make money by showing their satellites and saying that there are possibly aliens out there.

Quote from: "soggycrouton"

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence. There is none. Whatsoever. Therefore the conspiracy is whack. Therefore your theory is whack. The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

I'm sorry, soggycrouton, it seems you had the "bs" box checked before you posted.

Uncheck it and post again.

So, wow, you're pretty much a douchebag, huh?

Did you have anything intelligent to refute that with, yet you decided to refrain? Or did you perhaps see a glimpse of the stupidity of the FE theory?

In the RE model, there is evidence for any large claims (probably ALL claims, but I guess I'm not sure) aside from "if the earth is round, it must be true", which is NOT VALID EVIDENCE.

How do we know there is a slight curvature of the earth? We can observe ships sinking onto the horizon. If there was no evidence of ships sinking on the horizon, I would not say "well, if there earth is round, they must be sinking on the horizon, so it's pointless to discuss this!" Do you understand this is what you are doing? Douchebag?

How do we know there is gravity? It can be observed. Of course, in the FE model one can use the same explanation for how we know the earth is accelerating. That's why I'm not taking issue with that. Of course, I can take issue with the fact that that's inconsistent with different weights at different altitudes. And I do. And the reply is "well, the flat moon and sun have a little gravity". And then you guys have the audacity to say that the theory of gravity has no reason behind it, therefore you have trouble believing it. Even though you use it yourself.

The fact that there is NO evidence, and NO reasonable motive behind the conspiracy is a substantial hit to the FE theory's legitimacy and already frail credibility. So let me restate. The longer you ignore the problem of the conspiracy and try and dismiss people who discuss it, the more of a douchebag you look like.

Space programs cost money, they do not make any.

The money they get every year comes from the gouvernment. Giving money to yourself does not create any net gain.

The longer you ignore the problem of the conspiracy and try and dismiss people who discuss it, the more of a douchebag you look like.

Actually, you're incorrect. All of the worthwhile members of this forum have grown to realize that the conspiracy discussion is useless, tired, and boring. The only people who want to keep discussing it are the REers who are incapable of coming up with any more creative and interesting criticisms of the FE model.

The conspiracy isn't a flaw in the FE model.

Also, you're making yourself look really juvenile with the insults.

The fact that there is NO evidence, and NO reasonable motive behind the conspiracy is a substantial hit to the FE theory's legitimacy and already frail credibility.

That.

Space programs cost money, they do not make any.

The money they get every year comes from the gouvernment. Giving money to yourself does not create any net gain.

It does if you don't spend it.

Where does government money come from? Taxes. They want you to think they get X dollars from taxes, and they spend X dollars on the space program, which is no gain. What they really do is get X dollars from taxes, and place X dollars directly into their pocket. Thus, money is made.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Space programs cost money, they do not make any.

The money they get every year comes from the gouvernment. Giving money to yourself does not create any net gain.

It does if you don't spend it.

Where does government money come from? Taxes. They want you to think they get X dollars from taxes, and they spend X dollars on the space program, which is no gain. What they really do is get X dollars from taxes, and place X dollars directly into their pocket. Thus, money is made.

Not spending money does not make more of it, you just keep the same amount (you actually loose moeny if you do nothing with it because of inflation).

Also, the money they get from taxes is already theirs to spend. Saying that they are putting it in a space program (whether it's true or not) still does not make them any more than they had. You don't need a space program to divert money, education, military and health are all available.

And whose pockets are you saying the money goes in?

Also, the money they get from taxes is already theirs to spend. Saying that they are putting it in a space program (whether it's true or not) still does not make them any more than they had. You don't need a space program to divert money, education, military and health are all available.

Well duh, the conspiracy leeches from them too. Sure, it's true, they could make up any old excuse to take the money from, but it wouldn't fly with the citizenry to say "Hey guys, we're going to tax an extra 50 billion this year for our conspiracy". They've gotta come up with some reason, and what's more glamorous than "TO THE MOON, BANG ZOOM!"? A fake space program serves a dual purpose; a reason to tax the nation more, and another angle to come at the whole "trick everyone into thinking the earth is round."

And whose pockets are you saying the money goes in?

Conspirators. This should have been obvious.

Quote from: "phaseshifter"

Also, the money they get from taxes is already theirs to spend. Saying that they are putting it in a space program (whether it's true or not) still does not make them any more than they had. You don't need a space program to divert money, education, military and health are all available.

Well duh, the conspiracy leeches from them too. Sure, it's true, they could make up any old excuse to take the money from, but it wouldn't fly with the citizenry to say "Hey guys, we're going to tax an extra 50 billion this year for our conspiracy". They've gotta come up with some reason, and what's more glamorous than "TO THE MOON, BANG ZOOM!"? A fake space program serves a dual purpose; a reason to tax the nation more, and another angle to come at the whole "trick everyone into thinking the earth is round."

Quote

And whose pockets are you saying the money goes in?

Conspirators. This should have been obvious.

It wouldn't fly with the citizens? So they couldn't divert money until the NASA was created.....right.

So it goes in the conspirators pockets huh? So when that money comes in, that everyone in the gouvernment knows about, how do you get to give that money only to the conspirators, while the non conspirators would be wondering why the same guys kept being handed money every year, and they are not?

And for that matter, why won't a flat worlder get into politics so they can tell us all about the conspiracy already?

Would you vote for someone who believed the earth was flat?

Quote from: "Mephistopheles"

Quote from: "soggycrouton"

You've already tried before. The point is, if you have a theory that requires absurd conclusions, then your theory is absurd. If there was a conspiracy, there would be at least plausible motives and at least a shred of evidence. There is none. Whatsoever. Therefore the conspiracy is whack. Therefore your theory is whack. The longer you fail to come up with any explanation for the conspiracy, the bigger fools you look.

I'm sorry, soggycrouton, it seems you had the "bs" box checked before you posted.

Uncheck it and post again.

So, wow, you're pretty much a douchebag, huh?

Did you have anything intelligent to refute that with, yet you decided to refrain? Or did you perhaps see a glimpse of the stupidity of the FE theory?

In the RE model, there is evidence for any large claims (probably ALL claims, but I guess I'm not sure) aside from "if the earth is round, it must be true", which is NOT VALID EVIDENCE.

How do we know there is a slight curvature of the earth? We can observe ships sinking onto the horizon. If there was no evidence of ships sinking on the horizon, I would not say "well, if there earth is round, they must be sinking on the horizon, so it's pointless to discuss this!" Do you understand this is what you are doing? Douchebag?

How do we know there is gravity? It can be observed. Of course, in the FE model one can use the same explanation for how we know the earth is accelerating. That's why I'm not taking issue with that. Of course, I can take issue with the fact that that's inconsistent with different weights at different altitudes. And I do. And the reply is "well, the flat moon and sun have a little gravity". And then you guys have the audacity to say that the theory of gravity has no reason behind it, therefore you have trouble believing it. Even though you use it yourself.

The fact that there is NO evidence, and NO reasonable motive behind the conspiracy is a substantial hit to the FE theory's legitimacy and already frail credibility. So let me restate. The longer you ignore the problem of the conspiracy and try and dismiss people who discuss it, the more of a douchebag you look like.

You may take this to angry ranting, PM, or you may try to rethink that tired argument.

But please, stop the nonsense.  We've been over this before.

Would you vote for someone who believed the earth was flat?

Getting into politics does not always require voting. You don't have to be president to be involved in politics. There are thousands of posts available.

And no , I would not trust someone in denial to manage a country. But worse people have been elected so..

Obviously, not everyone is grasping the full scope of the Conspiracy Conspiracy Theory. All RE rants only prove the efficacy of the CC propaganda over the millennia. Of course you all believe that the Earth is a Sphere; a fabricated self referencing data system tells you so.

According to a small gray friend of mine who works out @ Area 51:
Any one outside of the CC is subject to constant reinforcement of the "official" cosmology through presentation of "further evidence" via NASA et al and worldwide neuro-manipulation by Alien Tech devices.

The primary motivation behind all of this? They are Fucking with our heads because they can.
From the Aliens PoV: we are just part of someone elses abandoned experiment; the "Flat Earth", a concurrent holodynamic phased-space projection of the "Spherical Earth" exhibiting all observable phenomena thereof.
 
Also, 80% of all US ICBMs are actually made of EPS(styrofoam), plaster and paint. The bulk of the appropriated funds, as in most military budgets, was squandered locally by top ranking Generals on gambling, booze, hookers and blow.
N. Korea ought to follow suit by opening a few Casinos. when given the choise; People spend more money on playing than fighting anyday of the week.

Obviously, not everyone is grasping the full scope of the Conspiracy Conspiracy Theory. All RE rants only prove the efficacy of the CC propaganda over the millennia. Of course you all believe that the Earth is a Sphere; a fabricated self referencing data system tells you so.

According to a small gray friend of mine who works out @ Area 51:
Any one outside of the CC is subject to constant reinforcement of the "official" cosmology through presentation of "further evidence" via NASA et al and worldwide neuro-manipulation by Alien Tech devices.

The primary motivation behind all of this? They are Fucking with our heads because they can.
From the Aliens PoV: we are just part of someone elses abandoned experiment; the "Flat Earth", a concurrent holodynamic phased-space projection of the "Spherical Earth" exhibiting all observable phenomena thereof.
 
Also, 80% of all US ICBMs are actually made of EPS(styrofoam), plaster and paint. The bulk of the appropriated funds, as in most military budgets, was squandered locally by top ranking Generals on gambling, booze, hookers and blow.
N. Korea ought to follow suit by opening a few Casinos. when given the choise; People spend more money on playing than fighting anyday of the week.

Ok, so you're friends with an alien?
There's nothing important at area 51 anyway.