TESO

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Re: TESO
« Reply #690 on: November 28, 2013, 11:05:47 PM »
I wouldn't call it a "PVP game" since there's only one PVP area.
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".
My guess is the war part between factions plays out during your character's main quest, and you WILL enter enemy territory during the missions, but they will likely be instanced so your questing won't affect other players in any way.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 11:08:44 PM by Mugthulhu »

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Lorddave

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Re: TESO
« Reply #691 on: November 28, 2013, 11:23:20 PM »
I wouldn't call it a "PVP game" since there's only one PVP area.
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".
My guess is the war part between factions plays out during your character's main quest, and you WILL enter enemy territory during the missions, but they will likely be instanced so your questing won't affect other players in any way.
Which is what I don't like.  If you're gonna have a 3 way war, at least let players interact with other plays, not in an instance.  Just think how cool it would be if you could jump to a fort that an enemy party was assaulting and help the NPCs?
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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #692 on: November 28, 2013, 11:25:24 PM »
There are other ways to deal with it such as PVP flags.  WoW does this perfectly.  Don't wanna PVP?  Don't put on the damn flag or attack another player with his/her flag on. 
And in my experience, if the world is big enough, the mobs of players running around ganking is pretty light.  Especially if the endgame PVP in Cyrodiil is engaging and you get no points for killing other players outside of Cyrodiil.


Unless you're on a PvP server.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #693 on: November 29, 2013, 06:21:11 AM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: TESO
« Reply #694 on: November 29, 2013, 06:31:49 AM »
I wonder if the Cyrodiil map is to scale with the map in Oblivion. They need to release moar pics!

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: TESO
« Reply #695 on: November 29, 2013, 08:23:58 AM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.

Like a real war, then?

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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #696 on: November 29, 2013, 10:47:50 AM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.

Why compare it to WoW? It's nearly a 10 year old game. GW2 has large scale battles with a huge number of players.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #697 on: November 29, 2013, 10:49:54 AM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.

Why compare it to WoW? It's nearly a 10 year old game. GW2 has large scale battles with a huge number of players.
I compare it to what I know?  What type of question is that?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #698 on: November 29, 2013, 10:52:49 AM »
I wonder if the Cyrodiil map is to scale with the map in Oblivion. They need to release moar pics!
The distances between are shrunk a bit.  It would probably take about 10 minutes to travel between 50 to 75% of the width of the map on horse.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: TESO
« Reply #699 on: November 29, 2013, 12:35:06 PM »
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".

To invoke moar lore, none of the factions are seeking all-out conquest of Tamriel - well, the Aldmeri Dominion probably is, but even they would no doubt consider it a long-term goal - it's not the point of the war.  What they want is to restore stability, and they think they can do that by putting one of their own people on the throne.  Invading the other factions wouldn't serve any purpose, and would just turn the civilian population against them.

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Alchemist21

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Re: TESO
« Reply #700 on: November 29, 2013, 01:11:55 PM »
On the point of wrecking new players' quests by killing NPCs, I heard that the game would somehow split individual accounts so that an npc that may be dead for one user is still alive for another user.
tfes.org

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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #701 on: November 29, 2013, 01:38:11 PM »
The servers for ESO are also quite a bit bigger than for WoW, which means a lot more players.  There also doesn't need to be a defined goal for level 50s to gank and grief lower level players (PvP flagging does take care of this though).  There were an absurd number of players in Cryodiil, more people assaulting one base than I've seen on one of the full WoW servers in the main city.  There were also at least 2 main forces of one army of about the same size.  This doesn't even begin to include the other 2 armies.

If these numbers of people were unleashed on other faction territories, they would likely storm a main city and constantly grief lower level players by wrecking their quest progression by killing the NPCs.

Why compare it to WoW? It's nearly a 10 year old game. GW2 has large scale battles with a huge number of players.
I compare it to what I know?  What type of question is that?

As I said, comparing it to a 10 year old game is pretty stupid. No shit WoW crashes when you get 80+ people in a small area.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #702 on: November 29, 2013, 01:52:24 PM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Lorddave

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Re: TESO
« Reply #703 on: November 29, 2013, 05:31:01 PM »
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".

To invoke moar lore, none of the factions are seeking all-out conquest of Tamriel - well, the Aldmeri Dominion probably is, but even they would no doubt consider it a long-term goal - it's not the point of the war.  What they want is to restore stability, and they think they can do that by putting one of their own people on the throne.  Invading the other factions wouldn't serve any purpose, and would just turn the civilian population against them.
I'm confused.  Do the other factions suddenly accept the rule of whoever controls Cyradiil?
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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #704 on: November 29, 2013, 07:14:03 PM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.

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Rushy

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Re: TESO
« Reply #705 on: November 29, 2013, 07:45:01 PM »
What could the servers possibly be doing that disallows having more than a hundred people in one area? EVE can have up to 1800 people in the same area and it calculates a lot more variables than any MMO on a 2D plane would. Any server lag is the MMO company being cheap asses on their IT side.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: TESO
« Reply #706 on: November 29, 2013, 07:51:52 PM »
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".

To invoke moar lore, none of the factions are seeking all-out conquest of Tamriel - well, the Aldmeri Dominion probably is, but even they would no doubt consider it a long-term goal - it's not the point of the war.  What they want is to restore stability, and they think they can do that by putting one of their own people on the throne.  Invading the other factions wouldn't serve any purpose, and would just turn the civilian population against them.
I'm confused.  Do the other factions suddenly accept the rule of whoever controls Cyradiil?

Not suddenly.  They might eventually give in if the enemy occupying the Imperial City clearly has the upper hand and their rule appears to be stable.  After all, it's not like any of them were rebelling against the Reman Dynasty or the Akaviri Potentate, which indicates that they're willing to settle for competent rule.  The war is mainly being fueled by paranoia that the other factions will burn Tamriel to the ground if they manage to take the throne.

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Rushy

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Re: TESO
« Reply #707 on: November 29, 2013, 08:07:20 PM »
Does it really make lore-sense to have the Emperor (which is a player) run around doing quests for giggles? Does the Emperor get to make any real decisions or is it just a cheesy title?

"Emperor YOLOswagiest the 1st"

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #708 on: November 29, 2013, 08:13:14 PM »
There was a buff in the pvp for holding specific forts called the emperor buff.  The player that obtained the most points under this buff held the title.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: TESO
« Reply #709 on: November 29, 2013, 08:17:59 PM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.
WoW has almost nothing on the player side.  It's hosted nearly entirely on the servers.  Players lag for having to render the characters, the servers lag for having x number of players in an area at once.  The game is "10 years old" but it's really only just over a year from its last major update to the client.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

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Rushy

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Re: TESO
« Reply #710 on: November 29, 2013, 08:19:50 PM »
There was a buff in the pvp for holding specific forts called the emperor buff.  The player that obtained the most points under this buff held the title.

You gotta be buff to be the emperor I guess.

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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #711 on: November 29, 2013, 09:49:05 PM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.
WoW has almost nothing on the player side.  It's hosted nearly entirely on the servers.  Players lag for having to render the characters, the servers lag for having x number of players in an area at once.  The game is "10 years old" but it's really only just over a year from its last major update to the client.

Yeah, but they haven't significantly changed the architecture of the game since release. They're just now getting around to redoing the bloody textures of the 4 original races.

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Lorddave

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Re: TESO
« Reply #712 on: November 30, 2013, 12:46:13 AM »
Which kinda defeats the whole "three factions at war" thing.  If all they can do is fight over one area then it's not exactly a war.  More like a game of "king of the hill".

To invoke moar lore, none of the factions are seeking all-out conquest of Tamriel - well, the Aldmeri Dominion probably is, but even they would no doubt consider it a long-term goal - it's not the point of the war.  What they want is to restore stability, and they think they can do that by putting one of their own people on the throne.  Invading the other factions wouldn't serve any purpose, and would just turn the civilian population against them.
I'm confused.  Do the other factions suddenly accept the rule of whoever controls Cyradiil?

Not suddenly.  They might eventually give in if the enemy occupying the Imperial City clearly has the upper hand and their rule appears to be stable.  After all, it's not like any of them were rebelling against the Reman Dynasty or the Akaviri Potentate, which indicates that they're willing to settle for competent rule.  The war is mainly being fueled by paranoia that the other factions will burn Tamriel to the ground if they manage to take the throne.
He who holds the capital holds the throne eh?
Fair enough.  Though I can see the NPC generals pulling their hair out not being allowed to destroy enemy supply bases in their home territories.
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Lorddave

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Re: TESO
« Reply #713 on: November 30, 2013, 12:50:00 AM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.
I never saw it crash during massive city raids.
Slow down like hell sure, but jot crash.


However, I can see where it would.  If the game can't handle all the simultaneous requests for effects, player status updates, or input, it might crash with some kind of request overflow.
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Vindictus

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Re: TESO
« Reply #714 on: November 30, 2013, 01:01:58 AM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.
I never saw it crash during massive city raids.
Slow down like hell sure, but jot crash.


However, I can see where it would.  If the game can't handle all the simultaneous requests for effects, player status updates, or input, it might crash with some kind of request overflow.

I remember when a Stormwind raid caused a server crash in Vanilla, probably had around 120 involved at the most. I've also heard of gatherings of 150-200 players causing crashes. There's a funeral crash video ("WoW funeral raid" brings it up on Youtube) that took place in Vanilla, in the middle of a quiet zone. I'd say there's 60-80 people there and there's some serious lag when the combat starts. That's all from Vanilla, but I doubt the game has changed significantly.

In any case, I've seen what modern MMOs (GW2) have been able to do with heaps of players fighting each other in big areas. TESO shouldn't have any issues doing it, given the size of the developer behind it.

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Lorddave

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Re: TESO
« Reply #715 on: November 30, 2013, 01:17:25 AM »
The age of the game is irrelevant when talking about the server capacity.  It's not like they are using 10 year old servers.

I won't pretend to know how these things work, but I'm going to assume that good servers don't necessarily allow a huge amount of people in one area. It comes down to the actual game, which is pretty old now.

WoW has always crashed when you get a huge amount of people in one area, all the way from Vanilla to modern times.
I never saw it crash during massive city raids.
Slow down like hell sure, but jot crash.


However, I can see where it would.  If the game can't handle all the simultaneous requests for effects, player status updates, or input, it might crash with some kind of request overflow.

I remember when a Stormwind raid caused a server crash in Vanilla, probably had around 120 involved at the most. I've also heard of gatherings of 150-200 players causing crashes. There's a funeral crash video ("WoW funeral raid" brings it up on Youtube) that took place in Vanilla, in the middle of a quiet zone. I'd say there's 60-80 people there and there's some serious lag when the combat starts. That's all from Vanilla, but I doubt the game has changed significantly.

In any case, I've seen what modern MMOs (GW2) have been able to do with heaps of players fighting each other in big areas. TESO shouldn't have any issues doing it, given the size of the developer behind it.
The lag looks like it comes from all the AoE attacks and effects being thrown around. 
I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.