how can we see the Crux

No, they are looking in the SAME direction. SOUTH! South is defined as the opposite direction to North. From  where they stand, South is rimwards for both of them. The Southern Cross helps you find SOUTH.

The calculation helps you find a DIRECTION. Not a singular point. That DIRECTION is SOUTH. It is the SAME for both of them.

Imagine one person standing in Australia and looking south. At the same time another person is standing in Argentina looking south. Are they looking in the same direction? According to your map, no. They have their backs to each other. It is not the same for both of them, thanks to your silly map.

thork is being stubourn. he couldn't answer my 1st question so i simplify it and he still cant. says a lot relay. we will continue without him. interesting as well how he makes fun of my use of Microsoft paint. i thought it was helpful. a picture paints a thousand words and all.

At least he didn't try bringing up the "multiple celestial gears" nonsense that Tom probably would have.

Quote from: Thork on January 15, 2013, 09:43:41 AM

No, they are looking in the SAME direction. SOUTH! South is defined as the opposite direction to North. From  where they stand, South is rimwards for both of them. The Southern Cross helps you find SOUTH.

The calculation helps you find a DIRECTION. Not a singular point. That DIRECTION is SOUTH. It is the SAME for both of them.

Imagine one person standing in Australia and looking south. At the same time another person is standing in Argentina looking south. Are they looking in the same direction? According to your map, no. They have their backs to each other. It is not the same for both of them, thanks to your silly map.

According to RET, it is likely day time in Argentina when the Southern Cross is visible in Australia.

 fair enough but my original post uses two points in Antarctica and my second attempt uses two points in Australia. both of which are night at the same time so the observation can be made.

Yet, you post no data or sources, only theoretical lines. 

australia is a continent with millions of people on it and plenty of astronomical installations. im sure we can safely say they can see the crux.

australia is a continent with millions of people on it and plenty of astronomical installations. im sure we can safely say they can see the crux.

Irrelevant.  No one is disclaiming the Crux can be seen.  You are assuming the direction that people would be looking and presenting your assumptions as evidence for some reason.

Well considering they are used for navigation we can be confident on where they appear in the sky.

No one said the constellation does not appear in the sky, nor did anyone say that you could not use it to navigate.  How are you coming up with these statements?

Because you are saying that I have no evidence to say they are where I say they are.  Simples realy.

Your MS Paint picture is evidence? 

No it's an illustration. A picture paints a thousand words.

Quote from: Dinosaur Neil on January 15, 2013, 11:54:27 AM

Quote from: Thork on January 15, 2013, 09:43:41 AM

No, they are looking in the SAME direction. SOUTH! South is defined as the opposite direction to North. From  where they stand, South is rimwards for both of them. The Southern Cross helps you find SOUTH.

The calculation helps you find a DIRECTION. Not a singular point. That DIRECTION is SOUTH. It is the SAME for both of them.

Imagine one person standing in Australia and looking south. At the same time another person is standing in Argentina looking south. Are they looking in the same direction? According to your map, no. They have their backs to each other. It is not the same for both of them, thanks to your silly map.

According to RET, it is likely day time in Argentina when the Southern Cross is visible in Australia.

I don't disagree with that, I was disagreeing with Thork's statement that on a flat earth map, south is the same direction for all observers.

Round earth - south is the same direction for all observers. North is the same direction for all observers.
Flat earth - south is a different direction for all observers at different longitudes. North is the same direction for all observers.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 15, 2013, 01:55:25 PM

australia is a continent with millions of people on it and plenty of astronomical installations. im sure we can safely say they can see the crux.

Irrelevant.  No one is disclaiming the Crux can be seen.  You are assuming the direction that people would be looking and presenting your assumptions as evidence for some reason.

Since there are several forum members who live in Australia, perhaps this would be an ideal opportunity to recruit some of these members to perform simultaneous observations and collect some invaluable data to help resolve the question once and for all.

so so far we can conclude that in FE rather than try and explain how we can see the crux from different locations at once they have just questioned whether we can in the 1st place. interesting.

so so far we can conclude that in FE rather than try and explain how we can see the crux from different locations at once they have just questioned whether we can in the 1st place. interesting.

I'm surprised you actually expected them to do anything else, to be honest.

Don't worry, I didn't really expect any Australian FE'ers to actually perform the Crux observations either.

On a side note it is possible to be star gazing at the same time in Tazmania and the southern end of South America during the southern hemispheres winter.

Hobart is +10 GMT
http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/hobart.html

Comodora Rivadavia is -5 GMT
http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/comodoro-rivadavia.html

There's about a 4 hour window between sunset in South America and sunrise in Tazmania.