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how on (flat) earth does this work

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Pythagoras

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how on (flat) earth does this work
« on: January 10, 2013, 05:41:35 AM »
in the real world if you want to sail from Australia to south america you have to travel around Antarctica. now disregarding the absurd differences in distance (LoL by the way) can you notice it cant be done in a straight line? they have to do course corrections all of which mean the ships heading changing left to travel around Antarctica.


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but in a flat earth once again disregarding the extreme distance difeneces. (LOL) notice that the course corrections are taking the ship to the right?
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/rightturn.jpg/

so for your theory to work every mariner in history would have to no know his left from his right?

any explanations?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 05:49:08 AM »
Yes.  I am sure that along the whole journey you would sense the turn to the left or right.  I lol at your lack of coherent logic and horrid grammar.  But, aside from that, have you ever made this journey?
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 05:52:55 AM »
yes a person trying to sail a ship would be well aware if they wear not turning left are you saying they wouldn't? why do i have to have made the trip?
and incoherent logic? where. its quite simple relay in the real world the ship turns left in a flat earth world a ship needs to turn right. it directly contradicts observable fact. hows that incoherent? and whats with the personal attack? whats wrong cant answer my question so you attack me instead?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 05:58:39 AM by Pythagoras »
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 05:59:59 AM »
A person sailing a ship over long period of time makes many course corrections.  You are saying that, at the end of the trip, he would say, "Hey, I turned right a few more times than I turned left, proving the Earth is round!".  You then offer no proof, other than a drawing.

I asked if you made the trip because you offer it as proof with out any substantiation. 
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Manarq

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 06:01:45 AM »
You would barely turn left on a sphere as you're basically following a straight line at 45o south.

The FET argument I've seen is that you'd sail west and try to keep north to your right so you'd end up following the line at 45o south and barely notice the course corrections.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 06:06:13 AM »
You would be sailing following a compass.  You would constantly be making corrections to keep your heading as compared to a compass: sometimes turning left, sometimes turning right, in regard to the compass heading.  How is this proof of anything?
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 06:14:02 AM »
a mariner knows adsactly what course corrections he has made. because in the middle of the ocean its the only way of knowing where you are and what direction you need to go. and no they don't make many course corrections. not out on open ocean anyway. why do i have to have done it? iv never flown on a plane from , London to new York but i know that planes do because other people do it.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 06:23:12 AM »
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:14:02 AM
a mariner knows adsactly what course corrections he has made. because in the middle of the ocean its the only way of knowing where you are and what direction you need to go.

Are you saying that time, speed, celestial positions, etc. didn't tell them where they were?  You really have no idea what you are talking about.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:14:02 AM
and no they don't make many course corrections. not out on open ocean anyway. why do i have to have done it? iv never flown on a plane from , London to new York but i know that planes do because other people do it.

Why do they have helm wheels if they don't need to make corrections? 
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM »
are you a mariner? are you an expert in nautical navigation? celestial navigation techeques?

they do make course corrections. where did i say they didn't? they just try to make as few as possible. ships travel in as straight a line as possible. travel as the crow flies.  how can you seriously tell me a mariner does not know what direction her is travailing? and don't forget im not even including the distance differences. lets do this a little diffident. a ship going circumnavigation around Antarctica. a ship has to turn right constantly to get back to its original position. forgetting once again the fact it would take many many times longer in FE. the direcection the ship must travel is completely inconstant with what actually happens in real life. why do FE dismiss observations left right and center when their main prof the earth is flat is because it appears flat?
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 06:44:30 AM »
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
are you a mariner? are you an expert in nautical navigation? celestial navigation techeques?

Are you?   ???

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
they do make course corrections. where did i say they didn't? they just try to make as few as possible. ships travel in as straight a line as possible. travel as the crow flies.  how can you seriously tell me a mariner does not know what direction her is travailing? and don't forget im not even including the distance differences.

Do you even understand how big Antarctica is supposed to be?  You make course corrections all the time.  With something as big as Antarctica, over the months that it would take to travel around it, you would have made many thousands of course corrections.  You do not just turn left or right the whole time.  You are not driving around the block.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
lets do this a little diffident. a ship going circumnavigation around Antarctica. a ship has to turn right constantly to get back to its original position. forgetting once again the fact it would take many many times longer in FE. the direcection the ship must travel is completely inconstant with what actually happens in real life. why do FE dismiss observations left right and center when their main prof the earth is flat is because it appears flat?

The ship would not be navigating based on how much it is turning.  It navigates by looking at a compass and making constant corrections.  Sometime the corrections are to the left, sometimes to the right.  It is sort of like driving a car. 
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FlatulencE Theory

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 08:36:13 AM »
Quote from: jroa on January 10, 2013, 06:44:30 AM
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
are you a mariner? are you an expert in nautical navigation? celestial navigation techeques?

Are you?   ???

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
they do make course corrections. where did i say they didn't? they just try to make as few as possible. ships travel in as straight a line as possible. travel as the crow flies.  how can you seriously tell me a mariner does not know what direction her is travailing? and don't forget im not even including the distance differences.

Do you even understand how big Antarctica is supposed to be?  You make course corrections all the time.  With something as big as Antarctica, over the months that it would take to travel around it, you would have made many thousands of course corrections.  You do not just turn left or right the whole time.  You are not driving around the block.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 06:35:36 AM
lets do this a little diffident. a ship going circumnavigation around Antarctica. a ship has to turn right constantly to get back to its original position. forgetting once again the fact it would take many many times longer in FE. the direcection the ship must travel is completely inconstant with what actually happens in real life. why do FE dismiss observations left right and center when their main prof the earth is flat is because it appears flat?

The ship would not be navigating based on how much it is turning.  It navigates by looking at a compass and making constant corrections.  Sometime the corrections are to the left, sometimes to the right.  It is sort of like driving a car.

Jroa, this is the most ridiculous counter-argument you could have made. The point isn't how many left or right turns someone would have to make to stay on this course. The point is that there is a straight line between the beginning and end of this journey. In theory, you could sail or swim straight to it. On the real RE, you have to actually start out going a different direction entirely. This is because Antarctica is in the way.

For another example, say I want to travel from NY to LA. I could go straight, but if the straight highway is closed, I may be forced to go in another direction for a while, say down all the way to GA. Your incredibly poor attempt at refuting Pythagoras' example is like saying I wont notice I'm in GA because the road I'm on curves to the right and left sometimes.
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kevinagain

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 09:14:30 AM »
what manarq said, almost..

Quote from: Manarq on January 10, 2013, 06:01:45 AM
You would barely turn left on a sphere as you're basically following a straight line at 45o south.

The FET argument I've seen is that you'd sail west and try to keep north to your right so you'd end up following the line at 45o south and barely notice the course corrections.



Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 05:41:35 AM



no turns or course corrections are necessary,

if i leave the east coast of south america and sail straight east along the 35th paralell, it will take me to australia in a single straight line, with no course corrections necessary at all.

straight east, no turns.

pythagoros, your example requires turns because the start and end are at different latitudes
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 09:16:33 AM by kevinagain »
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 01:10:57 PM »
If you are on a globe and travel due east, you would have to continually turn in order to maintain your course heading, unless you are exactly on the equator.
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Bollybill

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 01:49:28 PM »
What does latitude have to do with anything? One can go southeast in a straight line and end up at a different latitude...

Also, jroa, when sailing you can go for a long time without making 'constant corrections'.
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kevinagain

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 04:29:29 PM »
Quote from: jroa on January 10, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
If you are on a globe and travel due east, you would have to continually turn in order to maintain your course heading, unless you are exactly on the equator.

on a round earth, the course is a straight line. easy.

on a flat earth, whatever it is that influences the compass will automatically change inclination as i travel in a curved path. yes, i will have to turn to make it to australia, but i will be unaware of it because i i will constantly be correcting my course to the same 90 degrees east.

am i missing something here?
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 05:55:52 PM »
Quote from: Bollybill on January 10, 2013, 01:49:28 PM
What does latitude have to do with anything? One can go southeast in a straight line and end up at a different latitude...

Also, jroa, when sailing you can go for a long time without making 'constant corrections'.

Ahh, I had this understanding issue when I first joined.  Jroa is correct, at anything other than the equator you have to turn to maintain the same latitude.  In otehr words you cannot go in a straight line while maintaining latitude.  I am having a herd time explaining it, but you need to think of a person waling on a big ball, and not at the equator.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 06:46:11 PM »
Quote from: kevinagain on January 10, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
on a round earth, the course is a straight line. easy.

Incorrect.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 03:19:01 AM »
Quote from: kevinagain on January 10, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: jroa on January 10, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
If you are on a globe and travel due east, you would have to continually turn in order to maintain your course heading, unless you are exactly on the equator.

on a round earth, the course is a straight line. easy.


Please stand next to a globe, or substitute a ball of approximately the same size.  Then, take a straight edge, like a ruler, and use it to plot a straight line.  Report back to us your findings.
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FlatulencE Theory

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 07:19:18 AM »
Quote from: jroa on January 11, 2013, 03:19:01 AM
Quote from: kevinagain on January 10, 2013, 04:29:29 PM
Quote from: jroa on January 10, 2013, 01:10:57 PM
If you are on a globe and travel due east, you would have to continually turn in order to maintain your course heading, unless you are exactly on the equator.

on a round earth, the course is a straight line. easy.


Please stand next to a globe, or substitute a ball of approximately the same size.  Then, take a straight edge, like a ruler, and use it to plot a straight line.  Report back to us your findings.

You guys are so ridiculously wrong its laughable. Indeed, you do not need to make constant corrections to sail in a straight line on a globe. The curve is a feature of the sphere and independent on the object moving on it. The round earth curves, no person navigating in a straight line has to make corrections to follow the curve. Again, its akin to driving up a hil and then down the other side. There is an inherent curve to the road (vertically) but I don't have to make any corrections to follow the road because the curve is a feature of the hill and independent of my course. Rotate this example 90deg and you have travel on the round earth.



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muggsybogues1

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 11:35:21 AM »
Using this map, why would pilots not simply fly over the "South Pole" as the journey would be shorter? The answer is simpler than you think.
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Copernicious

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 11:48:37 AM »
Quote from: muggsybogues1 on January 11, 2013, 11:35:21 AM
Using this map, why would pilots not simply fly over the "South Pole" as the journey would be shorter? The answer is simpler than you think.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 05:41:35 AM
in the real world if you want to sail from Australia to south america you have to travel around Antarctica.
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muggsybogues1

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 12:02:37 PM »
Quote from: Copernicious on January 11, 2013, 11:48:37 AM
Quote from: muggsybogues1 on January 11, 2013, 11:35:21 AM
Using this map, why would pilots not simply fly over the "South Pole" as the journey would be shorter? The answer is simpler than you think.

Quote from: Pythagoras on January 10, 2013, 05:41:35 AM
in the real world if you want to sail from Australia to south america you have to travel around Antarctica.

I know that's not what he was talking about. But here in the real world pilots do not fly over the fictional continent of Antarctica despite it being a shorter journey, even according to their maps.
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 01:47:46 PM »
they don't fly over Antarctica because their are no emergency airfields within the required range by law. they same used to apply for north pole as well but they changed the regulation for certain aircraft.
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Thork

Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 02:00:36 PM »
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 11, 2013, 01:47:46 PM
they don't fly over Antarctica because their are no emergency airfields within the required range by law. they same used to apply for north pole as well but they changed the regulation for certain aircraft.
What a load of poppycock.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23256507/ns/travel-news/t/australia-builds-antarctic-ice-runway/#.UPCKlaWyN5g

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkins_Runway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_Field

and one you might appreciate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Airfield

People skirt the edge of the ice rim all the time. They just don't go near the edge because that's forbidden.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:02:59 PM by Thork »
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 02:03:18 PM »
load of poppycock? explain? no scheduled passenger flights fly over Antarctica that's fact. if people skirt the edge then why do they not notice the extreme difference in distances?
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Thork

Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 02:08:49 PM »
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 11, 2013, 02:03:18 PM
load of poppycock? explain? no scheduled passenger flights fly over Antarctica that's fact. if people skirt the edge then why do they not notice the extreme difference in distances?
Did you even click on my first link? Australia flies an A319 to antarctica regularly and there is you prattling on about no airfields available.
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Foxy

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 02:11:58 PM »
They don't go near the edge because it's forbidden? Does an alarm go off if they get too close? Are they punished if they go beyond a certain point? Are they shot down if they do this? How does this work?

Quote
Flights to Antarctica leave from Hobart International Airport in Tasmania using an Airbus A319, and the flight takes around four hours. Prior to the runway's completion, the trip to Antarctica involved a ten-day journey by ship across the Southern Ocean from Hobart. The runway only operates during the Antarctic summer, and twenty to thirty flights per season are planned. The flights are used to transport scientists conducting Antarctic research, and are not available for tourist flights.[3] However, since the opening of the runway no more than 10 flights in one season has been achieved. This is primarily due to environmental conditions at the site, temperatures being warmer and causing melt of the runway, thus decreasing the window of opportunity to use the runway. As of January 2012, only four flights were planned for the summer season and all in February 2012.

At least one of those links explains that the airfield is not only operation only at a certain part of the year, but they can only schedule a few flights to land there a year due to environmental conditions. How can an emergency landing work there if it's hard enough to land a scheduled flight there?

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Thork

Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 02:16:00 PM »
So for 6 months of the year when the airfield is open, why aren't the airlines taking advantage and flying straight over the South Pole to save huge amounts of fuel and maximise profit?

Fortunately to get the answer to that question, by sheer fluke you have come to possibly the only website in the world where you will get a proper answer for that. The answer is because the earth is not a whirling ball, its a flat plate and Antarctica is the edge.
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Pythagoras

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Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 02:19:15 PM »
Quote from: Thork on January 11, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 11, 2013, 02:03:18 PM
load of poppycock? explain? no scheduled passenger flights fly over Antarctica that's fact. if people skirt the edge then why do they not notice the extreme difference in distances?
Did you even click on my first link? Australia flies an A319 to antarctica regularly and there is you prattling on about no airfields available.

no i read them. they are research bases and the runways are ice runways. you do know that right? so a unprepared commercial airplane will not be able to land on them. only specialy modified aircraft. also the runways are only usable at certain parts of the year.
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Thork

Re: how on (flat) earth does this work
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 02:22:06 PM »
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 11, 2013, 02:19:15 PM
Quote from: Thork on January 11, 2013, 02:08:49 PM
Quote from: Pythagoras on January 11, 2013, 02:03:18 PM
load of poppycock? explain? no scheduled passenger flights fly over Antarctica that's fact. if people skirt the edge then why do they not notice the extreme difference in distances?
Did you even click on my first link? Australia flies an A319 to antarctica regularly and there is you prattling on about no airfields available.

no i read them. they are research bases and the runways are ice runways. you do know that right? so a commercial airplane will not be able to land on them. only specialy modified aircraft. also the runways are only usable at certain parts of the year.
For God's sake, read the damn link I provided! A commercial service from Tasmania to Antarctica operates once a week and they fly a civilian A319 airbus there. There is even a big picture of the a319 landed with a bunch of cold people stood in front of it. Read the link and educate yourself. No wonder you haven't got a clue what shape the earth is! >o<

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23256507/ns/travel-news/t/australia-builds-antarctic-ice-runway/#.UPCQo6WyN5h
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