The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world

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12345678910

The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« on: January 06, 2013, 07:01:02 AM »
Hi im interested in science and i came across this society a couple of days ago im trying to have an open mind and although i don't bolive in this theory (as of yet) i have some questions about the theory

1. the oviuse question is what happens when you get to the edge of the earth ? and if you bolive the earth is one continual plain what do you say to people who go forward and end up in the same location (around the world)

2. Ive heard that you bolive as momentum is the same as gravity that there isnt gravity pulling anything its actualy the flat earth moveing along one vector known on earth as up so my question is do you bolive in gravitons strong/week nucleure force and electromagnetic force ?

also sorry for spelling im dyslexic

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2013, 07:16:29 AM »
Hi, 12345678910.  I moved this to the Q&A (Questions and Answers) section.  I will try  to give you some answers.

1.  Circumnavigation is possible on a flat world.  You simply travel in a circle, not unlike traveling around a globe.  You can draw a circle on a globe as well as a flat plane; therefore, you can travel in a circle on either.

2.  It is not momentum that keeps our bodies pressed against the Earth, it is acceleration.  Think about being in a car.  When the car is traveling a any given speed, we do not feel any force acting on our bodies because we are traveling at the same speed.  If the car accelerates or slows down, we are either pressed against our seat or pulled forward due to the change in speed.  Because the Earth is always accelerating, we are pressed against the Earth like you would be pressed against the seat in an accelerating car.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 07:24:02 AM by jroa »

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Thork

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2013, 07:24:16 AM »
1. Well the obvious answer is when you get to the edge, you fall off. However due to adverse weather, magnetic effects on instruments, deliberately misleading cartography and the technological requirements to reach the rim, its not something most of us will ever get to do.

2. Albert Einstein came up with the equivelance principle which basically showed the force of gravity could be substituted or replaced by an equivalent acceleration. We like to believe he was hinting quite profoundly at the state of reality without making himself a target.

Don't worry about the spelling. You spell better than half of the middle-aged regulars here. You should be able to get a spell checker for your browser that will help you out.
Speckie is good for IE
Safari has free spell check apps in the app store
Chrome and firefox have built in ones that you can enable.

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2013, 09:11:50 AM »
Thank you for you're quick replies and information on spellchecking i will look into that :)

1. would you not know that you where walking in a direction such as left or right and i mean what about people who walk straight and end up in the same spot without meeting any edges ?

2. Ok ye i see how that works but you think the earth or the hole universe is constantly accelerating what could supply the earth/universe with constant energy to do so ? also if you cant answer this due to inefficient knollage thats fine but do you're theories say anything about gravitons, weak/strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force like do you bolive any of them exist ?

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Thork

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2013, 09:40:41 AM »
1. How could anyone do this? You know. Walk in a straight line and end up where they started? Surely the Atlantic and Pacific make this a little bit tricky. Walking in a straight line is just an assumption based on a round earth. Its not been proven.

2. In the universe is something called Dark Energy. We don't know much about it. Only that its incredibly abundant. We suspect this is responsible for driving our solar system upwards.


74% of the universe is this energy. Only 0.4% is actual stars, planets etc etc. That would seem enough to accelerate earth upwards.

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2013, 10:09:00 AM »
1. OK yes no one could walk around or across the hole world due to oceans and alike but if someone travelled in a straight line by boat plain whatever surely they would reattach the end ?

2.So you do or do not bolive in gravitons week/strong nuclear force and electromagnetic force ? and i am formilia with dark matter but even the worlds top scientists knowing almost nothing about it what if any evidence shows dark matter is pushing the earth ? also why would dark matter speed the earth at constant acceleration and not act all its force on the earth in one go ? and in theory in universe distributed everything relatively evenly so why would dark matter in front of the earth not a pose that behind it ?

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2013, 10:10:24 AM »
sorry when i mention dark matter i meant to say dark energy :(

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Thork

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2013, 10:16:23 AM »
1. Surely they would. but this is virtually impossible. You'd need a constant adjustment of direction. If you just go 'East' you go in a circle. That's the same for round earth or flat.
Quote from: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/East
east  (st)
n.
1. Abbr. E
a. The cardinal point on the mariner's compass 90 clockwise from due north and directly opposite west.
Clockwise is circular.

2. I do not believe in magical, inexplicable, invisible forces, no. The fact its such an obvious force and not even a Hadron collider can find evidence of it speaks volumes to me.
As for dark energy, its a constant universal energy. Not an explosion. Its not all expended at once.
As for distribution, why does the universe expand outwards in round earth theory? The answer is it comes from a singularity. So that must be the direction from which the dark energy radiates. Its below us pushing us 'up'. The source must be below us.

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2013, 12:29:45 PM »
2.so with out strong/nuclear forces how do you explain atom annihilation and how do you suppose nucleus materials stay balanced and don't collide into each other and the universe is proven to be expanding because of red/blue shift and even if it dousent prove the universe is exspanding red shift proves that other galaxies,solar systems and stars are traveling away from us at a constant speed so how whould you exsplain that if we where constantly accelerating then effects whould be shown in red shift ?

a) another example photons emitted millions of light years away traveling toward us traveling in a wave interact with solar gas before retching us when the light is examined you can see the frequencies cut out by these solar gases so when looking at the diagram below and cross referencing the could lines with the frequency and the spacing between the element you can see what elements are present but more importantly that the cloud of dust is sat relatively dormant between the earth and the light source so if we where constantly accelerating the light wavelength and frequency would change and the diagram would not be seen ?

http://facstaff.cbu.edu/~jvarrian/252/emspex.jpg

b) if we where constantly acselarating we whould be traveling infernetly faster than light disproveing all   albert eienstieghns theorys and most famously E=MC^2 this equation douse not work if light is not a maximum constant yet the equation douse work in practice douse this not mean that light is a maximum constant ? and if we where constantly accselarateing we again whould be traveling faster than light so how could you see stars and other such things ?

c) light on earth is not atatched to earth in any way and is completely massless so if we where acselarating along a single vector known on earth as up then the light whould stay where it is traveling in what ever direction so if it was moveing on this same vector known on earth as up and we where moveing faster we whould overtake light so all light whould be beneath us on this vector no ?

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Thork

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2013, 12:39:41 PM »
2. You are mixing up electrical forces and these imaginary gravitational forces. Electrons and various other sub atomic particles have been observed. Gravitons or Higgs Boson or whatever they are, the magic variety have not.

a) Are you talking about red-shift? I'm finding it hard to decipher the question in this paragraph.
b) Actually special relativity proves you can accelerate forever at 9.81 m/s2 and never reach the speed of light but that's another thread.
c) Light has relativistic mass. It also has momentum. It only lacks a rest mass. But as we are accelerating slower than light anyway, this isn't an issue.

Am I supposed to believe I'm still talking to a 10 year old?

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2013, 02:09:25 PM »
2. yes but weak and strong nucleure force make the modern atom model work without them there whould be no matter and along with them go electrostacic force and aslo grivetons no they havent bean observed but you carnt say there not nesacerily real electrons have bean observed onley in the same way that the higgs boson, muons, pions and kayons have bean discovered so you carnt say that electrons are real and the higgs boson is not because there detected in the same way ?

also i dont think you should just call them magic just because you dont bolive in them i dont bolive the earth is flat but im trying to have an open mind about it mabe you should about quaontom fonomina ?

a) no i was talking about gas in-between a light source and earth being detected by the photons colliding with it if we where ecselarateing we whould go past it ?

and ye what about red shift what do you say to that ?

b) how do you exsplain the antinutrino without beta minus decay witch involves the forces preveusely discused ? and what can create paire production without these forces ?

and no i was saying that to get rid of that guy trying to troll me im actualy 16 and failling physics whould you bolive  :)

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2013, 02:18:56 PM »
If you think gravity doesn't exist Thork, then how do you explain the variability of gravity from place to place and at altitude, and the Cavendish experiment?
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

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Pongo

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Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2013, 08:06:22 PM »
If you think gravity doesn't exist Thork, then how do you explain the variability of gravity from place to place and at altitude, and the Cavendish experiment?

According to round-earth theory, the higher you climb a mountain, the more you should weigh because there is more earth, or mass under you. To explain why there is less gravity at higher altitudes, round-earthers say that gravity diminishes over distance, yet can magically keep the moon rotating around it from a considerable distance. Not to mention the earth circling the sun from what is literally an astronomical distance.

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12345678910

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 02:36:17 AM »
Gravity never derminishes we are effected by all matter in the univrse stars millions of light year effect us with there gravity the same as the earth beneth us and climbing a mountain might give you more weight but it whouldnt be noticeable

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 02:48:36 AM »
If you think gravity doesn't exist Thork, then how do you explain the variability of gravity from place to place and at altitude, and the Cavendish experiment?

According to round-earth theory, the higher you climb a mountain, the more you should weigh because there is more earth, or mass under you. To explain why there is less gravity at higher altitudes, round-earthers say that gravity diminishes over distance, yet can magically keep the moon rotating around it from a considerable distance. Not to mention the earth circling the sun from what is literally an astronomical distance.

Gravity is slightly weaker at the top of a mountain. And why would the moon not be able to stay in orbit?

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Wolf

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Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 03:10:17 AM »
Pongo - the force between the Earth and the Moon is 222 738 248 131 940 000 kN at perihelion.

For a 100kg man:
G6378 = 979.625 N (99.894 kg)
G6379 = 979.317 N (99.863 kg)
G6353 = 987.35 N (100.682 kg)

6378 and 6379 being the radius of Earth at the bottom and the top of a 1 km mountain (real distances, hypothetical mountain). 6353 at sea level. (in km).

You can measure this (and get off that chair at the same time).
lol - they actually believe the earth is flat!

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2013, 03:59:11 PM »
If you think gravity doesn't exist Thork, then how do you explain the variability of gravity from place to place and at altitude, and the Cavendish experiment?

According to round-earth theory, the higher you climb a mountain, the more you should weigh because there is more earth, or mass under you. To explain why there is less gravity at higher altitudes, round-earthers say that gravity diminishes over distance, yet can magically keep the moon rotating around it from a considerable distance. Not to mention the earth circling the sun from what is literally an astronomical distance.

I don't mean up a mountain, I mean as measured from high altitude balloons etc. Obviously up a mountain it doesn't really count as so high because you're still at the surface with a big mass under you. I meant altitude as in distance from surface.
The principle of orbit is not magical. Your description of it as being such just makes you look like the sort of person who thinks there's tiny people inside your TV.
The question of how gravity can vary if it doesn't exist has still not been answered.
Founder member of the League Of Scientific Gentlemen and Mademoiselles des Connaissances.
I am pompous, self-righteous, thin skinned, and smug.

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2013, 04:50:36 PM »
Why wouldn't the moon be affected enough by Earth's gravity to be in orbit?

To find Earth's sphere of influence use the equation SMA*(massofearth/massofsun)^.4. That's 149,598,261*(1,989,100/5.9736)^.4 = 924,609 km, and the moon is at most 400,000 km away from the Earth at apogee, well within the SOI. (Note: SMA is in km and masses in 10^24 kg).

The SOI is influenced by the masses of the two bodies and the distance of the smaller body (Earth) determines how far out its gravity will be the biggest affect. At the edge of the Earth's SOI the gravitational pull from the sun is equal to that of Earth, which happens to be farther out than the moon (of course). Well, the SOI isn't a perfect sphere since the sun's gravitational pull 925,000 km on the opposite side of Earth is less than 925,000 km on the near side so it is 'lopsided' I guess you could put it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 05:00:01 PM by Bollybill »
Why use evidence
Ok

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 04:17:58 PM »
There is no edge, earth is an infinite plane
"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed

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Foxy

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Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 04:41:07 PM »
There is no edge, earth is an infinite plane

Evidence?

Re: The flat plane theory and the edge of this flat world
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 05:14:31 AM »
There is no edge, earth is an infinite plane

Evidence?


There is no evidence, however this is the only flat earth model that is realistic. If the earth is flat it cannot possibly be a finite disc with edges from where you can fall into deep space. Such model is primitive and outdated, its either a globe or infinite plane nothing in between can work.
"You think you are good, you think you are on the right path, but you are not."
John Seed