.....

we get confused here bill because we mix both systems all the time.

Alright, getting back to the whole thing about nuclear power...there is an incredible amount of energy in the form of the bonds between the particles in an atomic nucleus — it's what prevents the positively charged protons from repelling one another. Breaking those bonds causes bits of the atom to fly off: alpha particles, which are He2+ nuclei; beta particles, which are leptons (e.g. electrons); and gamma particles, which are high-energy photons. These smash into more atoms, causing a chain reaction. In a fission reactor, all of these high-energy particles bump into water molecules, giving them kinetic energy and creating steam, which spins a turbine. I think you're on board with that last part. So what part of this don't you agree with?

Also if you disagree with relativity I would like you to come up with an alternative explanation for gravitational lensing, which we can readily observe.

do you believe in electricity Scepti?
you can t see that can you?

my point is that electricity works with electrons, you know them things that dont exist? So if they are not there how does electric work?

but you claim atoms dont exist, and what are electrons part of? Or Is that some different sort of atom?

You really are going to have to make your mind up one way or the other

You may recall they are too small to see with the human eye. You have had photos from electron microscopes shown to you. If that does not satisfy, try and book time on an electron microscope and see for yourself.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 08, 2013, 12:16:56 PM

You may recall they are too small to see with the human eye. You have had photos from electron microscopes shown to you. If that does not satisfy, try and book time on an electron microscope and see for yourself.

Will I get to see Uranium atoms and Plutonium atoms?

Not sure mate. Find out for yourself getting excited?

Quote from: sevenhills on March 08, 2013, 09:39:05 AM

my point is that electricity works with electrons, you know them things that dont exist? So if they are not there how does electric work?

I don't recall saying electrons don't exist.

Do you think they exist?

Quote from: robertotrevor on March 08, 2013, 12:31:26 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2013, 09:42:26 AM

Quote from: sevenhills on March 08, 2013, 09:39:05 AM

my point is that electricity works with electrons, you know them things that dont exist? So if they are not there how does electric work?

I don't recall saying electrons don't exist.

Do you think they exist?

I believe a lot of things exist I just don't believe fissioning atoms exist that give out super heat and deadly radiation and can obliterate entire cities or worse.

Ok. that is kind of an abiguous answer.
Do you believe in atoms? yes or no (forget about fission)
Do you believe in electrons? yes or no
Of course you can also say you havent made up your mind.

Quote from: robertotrevor on March 08, 2013, 12:41:53 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2013, 12:36:07 PM

Quote from: robertotrevor on March 08, 2013, 12:31:26 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2013, 09:42:26 AM

Quote from: sevenhills on March 08, 2013, 09:39:05 AM

my point is that electricity works with electrons, you know them things that dont exist? So if they are not there how does electric work?

I don't recall saying electrons don't exist.

Do you think they exist?

I believe a lot of things exist I just don't believe fissioning atoms exist that give out super heat and deadly radiation and can obliterate entire cities or worse.

Ok. that is kind of an abiguous answer.
Do you believe in atoms? yes or no (forget about fission)
Do you believe in electrons? yes or no
Of course you can also say you havent made up your mind.

I don't believe atoms exist as they say they do, where nuclear fissioning is concerned.

I don't believe you exist.

If you dont believe atoms existe becaue they are too small to be seen. then i assume you dont believe in electrons either?

Scepti doesnt want to mention his ideas and "theroies" about a topic he doesnt know? well. i guess there is a first time for everything.

Quote from: sevenhills on March 08, 2013, 11:48:45 AM

but you claim atoms dont exist, and what are electrons part of? Or Is that some different sort of atom?

You really are going to have to make your mind up one way or the other

Show me a real life atom. Not a drawing.  A real life atom.

Have you ever seen an electron?  Please, show me a picture of electricity.

Quote from: robertotrevor on March 08, 2013, 12:31:26 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 08, 2013, 09:42:26 AM

Quote from: sevenhills on March 08, 2013, 09:39:05 AM

my point is that electricity works with electrons, you know them things that dont exist? So if they are not there how does electric work?

I don't recall saying electrons don't exist.

Do you think they exist?

I believe a lot of things exist I just don't believe fissioning atoms exist that give out super heat and deadly radiation and can obliterate entire cities or worse.

Hi Sceptimatic! Since I am a dumb alien tourist, can you explain me:
What is an electron?
What does nuclear stand for?
What is fission?

I do not ask if they exist. Just tell me the meaning of the words! I'm sure you're the one who knows that!

Very good. You have defined these terms now.

But I'm quite sure that your opponents' definitions are, partially at least, not the same than yours. So you use the same words but do not give them the same meaning. Could that be the source of all the misunderstandings?

If you would inform yourself now about the COMMON meaning of these terms, which are the ones your opponents imply, you would know what they speak about when they talk with you, and the resulting discussions would be more fruitful for both sides.

North Korea is going to be really embrassed when their bluff is called. Wait, I've never seen North Korea, does it even exist?

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 04:57:41 AM

North Korea is going to be really embrassed when their bluff is called. Wait, I've never seen North Korea, does it even exist?

What bluff is going to be called?

North Korea threatened to nuke the US this week. They will be embrassed when a) Their rockets don't fly and b) they nukes don't go off.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 05:03:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2013, 04:59:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 04:57:41 AM

North Korea is going to be really embrassed when their bluff is called. Wait, I've never seen North Korea, does it even exist?

What bluff is going to be called?

North Korea threatened to nuke the US this week. They will be embrassed when a) Their rockets don't fly and b) they nukes don't go off.

Did North Korea tell you this or did you watch the "news?"

Yeah, I am not the person who North Korea phones their threats to so yes I watched the news. The absolutely unsubstantiated global conspiracy is spreading the propaganda now?  Very good. Carry on.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 05:11:46 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2013, 05:05:43 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 05:03:15 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2013, 04:59:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 04:57:41 AM

North Korea is going to be really embrassed when their bluff is called. Wait, I've never seen North Korea, does it even exist?

What bluff is going to be called?

North Korea threatened to nuke the US this week. They will be embrassed when a) Their rockets don't fly and b) they nukes don't go off.

Did North Korea tell you this or did you watch the "news?"

Yeah, I am not the person who North Korea phones their threats to so yes I watched the news. The absolutely unsubstantiated global conspiracy is spreading the propaganda now?  Very good. Carry on.

I was just merely verifying that you got this from your news channels that's all.

Forgive me if my BS detector does not trust that your intentions were that innocent.

Quote from: Homesick Martian on March 09, 2013, 04:17:27 AM

Very good. You have defined these terms now.

But I'm quite sure that your opponents' definitions are, partially at least, not the same than yours. So you use the same words but do not give them the same meaning. Could that be the source of all the misunderstandings?

If you would inform yourself now about the COMMON meaning of these terms, which are the ones your opponents imply, you would know what they speak about when they talk with you, and the resulting discussions would be more fruitful for both sides.

As long as stuff is invisible and cannot be detected by anybody, then it can be used for anything they want, because nobody is ever going to be able to challenge it.

Yes, that's right. In principle that opens the doors for any kinds of fraud.
But on the other hand there simply ARE things which cannot be detected or examined by anybody without years of learning or access to expensive equipment. Are they all fraud? Not necessarily. So without proper knowledge how can we judge?
Most people would use common sense here. We all do not believe everything the government says or are like "he has an academic grade so what he says must be true." But faking things on such a big scale like nuclear energy or space programs is clearly beyond the power any government has. Also, the principles of these technologies are clear and understandable. I know how rockets or nuclear reactors work, I understand it, although I do'nt know the details or could do the math. But I understand enough to say that there is no contradiction in it. You don't. You prove that all the time. Why? Why do you think your opinions are worth anything, when they are based on nothing? You think people discuss with you? They do not. Markjo and Pythagoras did take pains to explain you the most elementary concepts of science, and sometimes they even succeeded. you know now, for example, what the Doppler effect is. But against what a resistence! If you do not understand quick you cry "bogus" and "conspiracy". You must be fed with knowledge like a little bird: straightly into the crop, for if they put it in your mouth for chewing you spit it in their face. I admit, you are funny! for me too, your posts are quite entertaining, but I feel uncomfortable having fun on your costs. So please quit exposing yourself, I tell you that out of a sense of duty.

That's nonsense. You are inferring intentions about a conspiracy that cannot be proven to exist. The conspiracy of scientists and the illuminati that you purport is more complex than what we bold to be true. It requires greater levels of infallibility, more deception, more organization, plans upon plans and all this without ever leaving a substantial piece if evidence. Nothing that can reliably be traced back to anyone. And this is more logical to you. This is what your "common sense" tells you is most likely. You pick "they are out to get us" over "maybe I need to learn a little more". I know I can never sway you from your perspective, but perhaps consider this: human endeavors are often filled with organizational disarray. At work, one miscommunication can lead to a project being derailed. At home a badly chosen word can create interpersonal strife. Government bureaucracy is famous for its inability to get something done like changing a lightbulb in community housing. The inability of humans to get together to make anything happen efficiently is legendary. It took 400,000 people to pull off the moon landing. Any conspiracy of global proportions would take an extremely high level of organization and efficiency in decision making. Considering humans usually suck at this, why do you think in this case they have pulled it off flawlessly?

One word: Compartmentalisation.

Government is compartmentalised too. We mess it up all the time.

I'll come back to what you say about not seeing things and the fact we can't verify them physically, which can be used for a scam.
You say, you accept them because you know how this works and that works, yet it's only because you are told how they work. Can't you understand that?

It's blatantly obvious  a clever scam cannot be put into motion until at least all of the potential mishaps can be ironed out, plus a contingency plan against those who actually can point out discrepancies, which is where you get your scruffy looking scientists coming into the equation, who come out with answers to the discrepancies that make no sense but are accepted because there's a chalk board full of equations that nobody can decipher.
The end result is...believe it because you can't do any other, as it's all there on a board, paper, disc or whatever as an equation.

You can accept that all people are gullible and the budding scientist is no exception to this. Scientists can baffle the hell out of most people with what's floating about in their heads, yet can be reciting from memory, all that was taught as fact which, all of that fact may not be 100% fact at all and could be a mixture of pseudo/hypothesis/theory and fact.


The problem is, it's not a simple concept, because it involves all kinds of elements and make up, so the average Joe can't just make one, yet having said all of that, they tease us all by inventing "atom boy" who knocks one up using supermarket items.

They don't just baffle us with the science , the tease us with the stuff when it suits and it's all about piecing a jigsaw together as to why they do this.
For the disinterested, there is no jigsaw...it's simply all true and people are nuts to think there's a conspiracy, yet "atom boy" is a psyche job to show us all how easy it is for terrorists to make a dirty bomb.

It keeps the timid on their feet, scared and on edge and it makes you happily give up your rights and hard earned cash to make sure this never happens, whilst also keeping up the nuclear deterrent that makes us all feel comfortable in our beds, supposedly.

The one who told me most about physics is Richard Feynman through his  remarkable lectures which I read. I know he was not an imposter (like Rowbotham) or a crank or a member of any conspiracy. Why I know? Because he was a bongo player! You can tell me what you want: a scientist who starts learning percussion in his 50s is a man I trust. That's my common sense. So don't call Feynman a liar. If modern physics would be rubbish, he would have told us.

Yep, the Feynman lectures, I warmly recommend them to you.

I know how nuclear power is supposed to work and I could go and sit in a pub and explain it to friends and have them thinking I was some nuclear scientist

Do it! I pay the bill!

Quote from: Rama Set on March 09, 2013, 06:41:24 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 09, 2013, 06:37:25 AM

One word: Compartmentalisation.

Government is compartmentalised too. We mess it up all the time.

A schizophrenic is compartmentalised...but the point I'm making is... in any big business, employing and contracting outside aid, Peter doesn't know what Paul is doing and Jenny doesn't know what Jean is doing.
The need to know is a big part of any business.
The workers are paid to work.
The thinkers are paid to think.
The owners pay them all and decide who needs to know whatever they need to know. Anybody wanting to know more than is needed to know, is gone.

Thank you, I understand what was meant by compartmentalization. Al-Qaeda works in this way and can't keep it's secrets. The US military works this way and can't keep it's secrets. Big Business can't keep it's secrets. Nothing is 100% infallible... Except your global comspiracy. They remain undetected in any substantiated way. They perfectly conceal a myriad of things from the arcane (the truth about nuclear fission) to the common (I know it appears your map works but it does not).  They do so with such verisimilitude that anyone that points out the obvious lie is considered a marginal member of fringe beliefs. This seems more logical than the idea that scientists are telling the truth in their published verified experimentation and perhaps I don't understand the world like I thought?

Quote from: Homesick Martian on March 09, 2013, 07:04:57 AM

Quote

I know how nuclear power is supposed to work and I could go and sit in a pub and explain it to friends and have them thinking I was some nuclear scientist

Do it! I pay the bill!

Do what?

Go to the pub and convince your friends you are a nuclear scientist.

He believes what he's read and been tutored himself and with his own thoughts and the way he presents them, he believes he is passing on his knowledge to you, which is absolutely fine and no doubt interesting to you and your fellow students.

umm...ok..so at least he was an idiot. But, I mean, people like Feynman, you know, they don't "teach, what they are taught" like a mufti or a cult member. They actually do research. In fact Feynman is one of the originators of modern physics. One of the really big like Bohr, Dirac or Einstein. All these were people who dedicated their life to knowledge and truth, who loved freedom. Research is always checked and reviewed by persons like them. Even a big scientist may be a corrupted asshole, but most are not. Governments may want to take control over science, but when they do, science vanishes, as happened in Nazi Germany. One of the reasons why they lost the war. Even politicians are generally smart enough to know that they better let scientists do their business when they want to gain profit out of their findings.
You live in a creepy world, my brother!

What did Teszla find that was supressed and what do you mean by free energy?

You don't have to reply to anybody. This site is a creepy place as well. I'm sure there are many lonely girls on the web...

Quote from: Homesick Martian on March 09, 2013, 08:37:38 AM

You don't have to reply to anybody. This site is a creepy place as well. I'm sure there are many lonely girls on the web...

What's that supposed to mean?

It means that you feel better when you get your balls back.