I'm a pilot and I have some queries.

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nate5700

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2013, 11:02:29 AM »
I'm on about a plane following the curve of the globe, How does it stay following it, instead of veering away from the planet in a straight line.

Scepti, I think I've gotten to know you a little bit so don't think I'm not taking you seriously. This is a valid question, but the answer is fairly simple. And I'm not a pilot, so if I'm using proper flight terminology you'll have to forgive me.

One of two things would happen. Either gravity will naturally pull the plane down into a curved path, or, if the plane does continue on in a straight line, eventually gravity will cause the pilot to perceive, either from his instruments or just from feeling, that his nose is starting to edge up relative to the ground, so he can correct for this. In real life it's probably a little of both.

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Nolhekh

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2013, 11:05:15 AM »
I hope you're being sarcastic?

Planes do follow a straight path.  It's called the Great Circle route and is the shortest distance between points on a globe.  It only looks curved when depicted onto a flat map with the typical Mercator projection.  If you had a globe and a piece of string you would see for yourself.

On your globe run the string between San Francisco and London.  It's a straight line, right?  The planes follow this line which, as you now see on your globe, heads over NE Canada and Southern Greenland. 

But I suspect you already know this and I also suspect you don't have a globe at home.
I'm on about a plane following the curve of the globe, How does it stay following it, instead of veering away from the planet in a straight line.
This is a valid question.  I urge Bilbo to think about it again.  Strictly speaking, a great circle is still a curve, not a straight line. I can't find anything in a simple google search answering this question, so my guess is that whether flown automatically or manually, a plane has to adjust constantly for turbulence and wind.  In doing this, the pilot, or autopilot, actively keeps the plane level, and at the correct altitude.

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Bilbobaggins

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2013, 11:48:26 AM »
A plane is not a rocket.  A plane can only operate within the earth's atmosphere.  Every plane has its performance limits and the farther from earth it climbs the lower the performance becomes due to thinning atmosphere until it eventually will run out of lift and fall back to earth.  This, in actual practice, is considered poor technique.  (See Air France flight 447)

A rocket on the other hand will travel in a straight line and off into space but this works on a much different set of principles. 

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Nolhekh

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2013, 11:55:31 AM »
A plane is not a rocket.  A plane can only operate within the earth's atmosphere.  Every plane has its performance limits and the farther from earth it climbs the lower the performance becomes due to thinning atmosphere until it eventually will run out of lift and fall back to earth.  This, in actual practice, is considered poor technique.  (See Air France flight 447)
The limits of an aircraft are irrelevant.  The question has to do with what keeps planes following the curve of the earth.  Is it technique, or a quirk of physics?

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Nolhekh

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2013, 11:57:32 AM »
Also, a rocket fired horizontally like a plane will not follow a straight line.  It takes a lot of maneouvring and thrust adjustment to get a rocket to move straight relative to a gravity source.

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Bilbobaggins

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2013, 12:15:07 PM »
Gravity keeps a plane from flying off into space.

When Lift and Weight are equal, which is the case during the cruise portion of an aircraft's flight, the aircraft maintains a constant altitude.  Minor control inputs from the pilot or auto-pilot will ensure the plane stays at altitude.  If no input was made by either the plane would wander up and down gently but due to designed aerodynamic stability it will always return, on its own, to about the same airspeed and altitude.

As I said earlier, it is physically not possible for a plane to continue in a straight line off into space. The atmosphere becomes too thin above about 60,000' for engines and wings to function.



 

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nate5700

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2013, 12:22:07 PM »
Gravity keeps a plane from flying off into space.

When Lift and Weight are equal, which is the case during the cruise portion of an aircraft's flight, the aircraft maintains a constant altitude.  Minor control inputs from the pilot or auto-pilot will ensure the plane stays at altitude.  If no input was made by either the plane would wander up and down gently but due to designed aerodynamic stability it will always return, on its own, to about the same airspeed and altitude.

As I said earlier, it is physically not possible for a plane to continue in a straight line off into space. The atmosphere becomes too thin above about 60,000' for engines and wings to function.

So, in other words, a pilot could, in theory, maintain a straight line path, and keep climbing and climbing until the engines shut off? If I'm understanding correctly this is sort of what I was trying to get at in my reply. At some point the gravitational field will be such that the pilot would notice that he's climbing, and absent any other physical phenomena that would return the plane to a curved path, the pilot would just do it himself.

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Nolhekh

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2013, 12:32:07 PM »
I think I see.  As the plane moves along a straight path, gravity starts to pull back on it, causing it to slow down and lose lift, causing the plane to return to its starting altitude.

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29silhouette

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2013, 09:38:54 AM »
I should have looked at this thread earlier.

I'm on about a plane following the curve of the globe, How does it stay following it, instead of veering away from the planet in a straight line.
altimeter.

So the top floor is 43267.21494338807069 sqft
and the bottom floor is 43264 sqft

So the top floor of the world trade centre had an extra 3 square feet than the bottom one!
wow.  3 sq ft spread out and added to the outside of 43,264 sq ft.  I don't know why they didn't redesign the floor plans to take advantage of that.  Redesigning differently of course for every floor from top to bottom.

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2013, 08:03:03 PM »
You're the 5th pilot this week. Do any of you ever do any flying?

The cold war was not a space race. It was a photoshop race. The two countries decided to compete to see who could pull off the most audacious hoax and fool their respective people. They needed to pick something absolutely ludicrous and settled on a man walking on the moon. The first nation to convince their people of something so outrageous would win.
This was an important race, because it was to show who had the most power over their respective populations and how far they could push those people into believing anything the politicians said. After WW2 it had become apparent that hearts and minds were a massive part of winning any war and that without the support of the people, you couldn't win anything.

As it turns out the USA won. The russians had the scientific equipment to stage a hoax such as rockets and altitude suits, but the USA had Hollywood. In a studio in California, NASA staged a moon walk with special effects like no one had seen before. The American public lapped it up, the Russians conceded defeat and the photoshop race was over.

Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war.  Make that six pilots. 

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2013, 08:12:08 PM »
If the Earth is round, what stops a plane from just following a straight path once it's at cruising altitude, rather than following the Earth's supposed curve?

The altimeter measures atmospheric pressure based on a standard of 29.92 inches of mercury.  As a plane is flying, the altimeter always displayes the airplane's altitude, and the pilot must set the altimeter according to the atmospheric pressure at the reporting station.  The pilot will, if he's doing his job, always maintain a constant altitude, therefore the plane will always remain the same distance above sea level.

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2013, 08:20:23 PM »
I think I see.  As the plane moves along a straight path, gravity starts to pull back on it, causing it to slow down and lose lift, causing the plane to return to its starting altitude.

No, as the pilot sees that he is deviating from his assigned altitude, he will gently return so as to not get written up by the FAA.

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markjo

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2013, 08:20:37 PM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #73 on: February 27, 2013, 07:37:11 AM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.

Can you prove that?

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markjo

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Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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bgamelson

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Bollybill

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Why use evidence
Ok


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Bollybill

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2013, 02:25:44 PM »
Why use evidence
Ok

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #79 on: February 27, 2013, 02:45:24 PM »




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markjo

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2013, 09:32:57 PM »

This doesn't prove anything.
Nested quotes like that can be tricky, but if you click on the link for that quote that you provided, then you will see the nature of your failure.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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burt

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2013, 09:43:31 PM »

This doesn't prove anything.
Nested quotes like that can be tricky, but if you click on the link for that quote that you provided, then you will see the nature of your failure.

I am usually a master at nested quoting. I'll leave it there, because it will detract from people understanding what is going on. err actually nvm, just remembered where we are.

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bgamelson

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #85 on: February 28, 2013, 09:55:52 AM »

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burt

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #86 on: March 07, 2013, 09:19:41 AM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.

Can you prove that?

You're kidding, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbrush#Photo_retouching

This doesn't prove anything.

It proves that you're a troll.

Is that the most intelligent statement you have for the time being?

This doesn't prove anything for the time being.

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markjo

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #87 on: March 07, 2013, 10:31:01 AM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.

Can you prove that?

You're kidding, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbrush#Photo_retouching

This doesn't prove anything.

It proves that you're a troll.

Is that the most intelligent statement you have for the time being?

It was more intelligent that anything that you've posted.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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burt

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #88 on: March 07, 2013, 02:01:59 PM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.

Can you prove that?

You're kidding, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbrush#Photo_retouching

This doesn't prove anything.

It proves that you're a troll.

Is that the most intelligent statement you have for the time being?

It was more intelligent that anything that you've posted.

It was more intelligent than anything he has posted for the time being.

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Tausami

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Re: I'm a pilot and I have some queries.
« Reply #89 on: March 07, 2013, 02:05:56 PM »
Um, Photoshop didn't exist during the cold war. 
No, but airbrushing did.

Can you prove that?

You're kidding, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbrush#Photo_retouching

This doesn't prove anything.

It proves that you're a troll.

Is that the most intelligent statement you have for the time being?

It was more intelligent that anything that you've posted.

Personal attacks by Markjo. Irony noted.