The creation of the universe

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Dino

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2012, 03:09:13 PM »
interesting theory.
do you agree with Master James that long thought possible dinosaurs still may live beyond Antarctica, in a region "lit" by their own sun?

I don't know about their own sun; I'll have to give that some thought. But yes, I believe the dinosaurs -- or rather their descendants -- dwell beyond the ice wall and that this explains UFO's. UFO's don't come from space, they come from beyond the icy wall and the "aliens" are descendants of the dinosaurs who migrated there.

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »
is it a scientific forum or a gathering of loonies with ludicrous ideas?

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Dino

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2012, 04:08:35 PM »
is it a scientific forum or a gathering of loonies with ludicrous ideas?

The subject is "creation of the universe". You can't exactly say that this is a subject on which religion has no bearing.

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rotating planet

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2012, 10:18:01 PM »
I meant for a non-religious answer as I believe not all FErs are religious.

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Dino

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2012, 11:18:34 PM »
I meant for a non-religious answer as I believe not all FErs are religious.

Well, religion is the answer. You asked an open question. You received the Truth as an answer, but apparently you didn't want that.

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Pongo

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2012, 01:12:40 AM »
the big bang was one huge explosion and in no way a constant source of energy. it wasn't focused in one direction becaue wherever you point your instruments, you see remains of that energy in the microwaves spectrum.

ua doesn't work because nothing could generate constant acceleration for billion of years.

And yet, top round-earth physicists say that one day all the stars in the sky will be moving away from every other star faster than the speed of light.

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2012, 01:47:32 AM »
i don't know this theory

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Beorn

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2012, 01:48:13 AM »
i don't know this theory

Then it must be untrue!
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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2012, 01:49:20 AM »
i never said that

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2012, 04:21:18 AM »
the big bang was one huge explosion and in no way a constant source of energy. it wasn't focused in one direction becaue wherever you point your instruments, you see remains of that energy in the microwaves spectrum.

ua doesn't work because nothing could generate constant acceleration for billion of years.

And yet, top round-earth physicists say that one day all the stars in the sky will be moving away from every other star faster than the speed of light.
This definitely requires a quote. Until recently, no scientist would tell you if the expansion was accelerating or decelerating, so my guess is not one scientist has ever even suggested expansion beyond the speed of light.

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2012, 07:54:41 AM »
nothing goes fastest than the speed of light, so far

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2012, 08:17:49 AM »
the big bang was one huge explosion and in no way a constant source of energy. it wasn't focused in one direction becaue wherever you point your instruments, you see remains of that energy in the microwaves spectrum.

ua doesn't work because nothing could generate constant acceleration for billion of years.

And yet, top round-earth physicists say that one day all the stars in the sky will be moving away from every other star faster than the speed of light.
This definitely requires a quote. Until recently, no scientist would tell you if the expansion was accelerating or decelerating, so my guess is not one scientist has ever even suggested expansion beyond the speed of light.

I've heard this hypothesized before.  The idea is that the universe itself contains space and time, which is where the limit of faster than light travel exists.  As far as universe expansion...we don't know if a limiting factor exists.  I was under the impression the consensus was in fact that the universe was expanding faster, though nobody knows why or to what ends.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 08:19:36 AM by digimonkey »

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Ski

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2012, 04:52:44 PM »
nothing goes fastest than the speed of light, so far

I don't think you know what this actually means in the context of this discussion. 
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2012, 05:16:00 PM »
the big bang was one huge explosion and in no way a constant source of energy. it wasn't focused in one direction becaue wherever you point your instruments, you see remains of that energy in the microwaves spectrum.

ua doesn't work because nothing could generate constant acceleration for billion of years.

And yet, top round-earth physicists say that one day all the stars in the sky will be moving away from every other star faster than the speed of light.
This definitely requires a quote. Until recently, no scientist would tell you if the expansion was accelerating or decelerating, so my guess is not one scientist has ever even suggested expansion beyond the speed of light.

I've heard this hypothesized before.  The idea is that the universe itself contains space and time, which is where the limit of faster than light travel exists.  As far as universe expansion...we don't know if a limiting factor exists.  I was under the impression the consensus was in fact that the universe was expanding faster, though nobody knows why or to what ends.
There can be hypothesis about what will happen in several times the current age of the universe, but no mechanism has ever been demonstrated to be able to accelerate objects from under to over the speed of light. You have to be careful in this forum, because you will be held to this claim forever. I can assure you that this idea is, if anything, in the very first stages of tentative hypothesis. And yet, in this forum they live to inflate tentative hypothesis to full blown theory, or even rock hard truth.

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Thork

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2012, 05:22:23 PM »
Shadows can travel faster than the speed of light (based on laws of parallax). Technically so can a laser beam. If you swoosh a laser across the sky, the arc of the beam several billion miles away will move faster than light. The photons aren't moving faster than light, but the beam is. A possible insight into how faster than light communication may be possible.

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2012, 06:02:04 PM »
Shadows can travel faster than the speed of light (based on laws of parallax). Technically so can a laser beam. If you swoosh a laser across the sky, the arc of the beam several billion miles away will move faster than light. The photons aren't moving faster than light, but the beam is. A possible insight into how faster than light communication may be possible.
You do not know how ignorant this comment sounds among the Physics literates.

Don't you think that physicists have tried to fool the information transmission speed with moving lasers since some 80 years ago?

Every physicist knows that mathematical constructs, like the group velocities of waves, can move faster than light. But as soon as you try to put information on these mathematical constructs you get nowhere.

The day someone shows you tomorrow's news today you will know that information traveled faster than light. Until then, accept what physicists say.

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Pongo

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2012, 11:34:39 PM »
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=7ImvlS8PLIo&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7ImvlS8PLIo

I know it's long, so I don't really expect any of you round-earthers to watch it and maybe, I dunno, try and educate yourselves on the ideas you expound to your dying breath. Summary: A leading physicist says stars may one day move away from each other star faster than the speed of light.

Also, that's a mobile YouTube link. If it doesn't work, search "A Universe From Nothing Krauss."
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 11:37:03 PM by Pongo »

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Thork

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #47 on: October 26, 2012, 02:12:49 AM »
Shadows can travel faster than the speed of light (based on laws of parallax). Technically so can a laser beam. If you swoosh a laser across the sky, the arc of the beam several billion miles away will move faster than light. The photons aren't moving faster than light, but the beam is. A possible insight into how faster than light communication may be possible.
You do not know how ignorant this comment sounds among the Physics literates.
Are they the same physics literate who mistake the earth for being round?

Don't you think that physicists have tried to fool the information transmission speed with moving lasers since some 80 years ago?
Of course you need vast distances to compensate for the speed at which you rotate a device. Large distance is something a computer for example, doesn't have.

Every physicist knows that mathematical constructs, like the group velocities of waves, can move faster than light.
So now you agree with my simple statement that shadows and beams can go faster than light. ::)

But as soon as you try to put information on these mathematical constructs you get nowhere.
Because the distances we can generate on earth negate any chance of moving or rotating such an object fast enough. We would have to move a device at almost light speed to change a beam/wave/shadow in such a relatively short space. But with a large distance, the flick of a wrist would do.

The day someone shows you tomorrow's news today you will know that information traveled faster than light. Until then, accept what physicists say.
Now that was a stupid thing to say. How would travelling faster than light show me tomorrow's news? I'm already within 0.06666666 seconds of any point on a round earth earth. So if I accelerated at it at almost infinite speed I'd only see something 0.06666 seconds earlier at the most. Certainly not tomorrow's news today. Once I reach the location, accelerating into it any further will only cause me to collide with it. Not see it any sooner. I think you are probably out of your depth in this discussion. You lack a basic understanding of the fundamental concepts.

Additional: If you want to read tomorrow's news today, fly the short distance from Samoa to Tonga. Buy a newspaper and then go back. The newspaper will have tomorrow's date on it!  :o
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 02:28:41 AM by Thork »

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Beorn

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #48 on: October 26, 2012, 02:52:58 AM »
Time is such a fickle thing.
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Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #49 on: October 26, 2012, 02:53:44 AM »

The day someone shows you tomorrow's news today you will know that information traveled faster than light. Until then, accept what physicists say.
Now that was a stupid thing to say. How would travelling faster than light show me tomorrow's news? I'm already within 0.06666666 seconds of any point on a round earth earth. So if I accelerated at it at almost infinite speed I'd only see something 0.06666 seconds earlier at the most. Certainly not tomorrow's news today. Once I reach the location, accelerating into it any further will only cause me to collide with it. Not see it any sooner. I think you are probably out of your depth in this discussion. You lack a basic understanding of the fundamental concepts.

Additional: If you want to read tomorrow's news today, fly the short distance from Samoa to Tonga. Buy a newspaper and then go back. The newspaper will have tomorrow's date on it!  :o
You really do not understand, or know much about relativity, do you? Go learn a bit about how it has been established that, according to Relativity, once you get something to move faster than light (whether it is an object or information) it is a simple feat to transmit information into the past. I will not bother myself with your instruction, but I believe simple sources are available, like the TV series "Through the Wormhole". You will find that theoretical physicists have had the same ideas you are telling, but have actually done the maths and found the effects predicted by Relativity for information traveling faster than light.


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Thork

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #50 on: October 26, 2012, 02:59:14 AM »
You claimed to be able to get information from the future. From the not yet happened. That has nothing to do with light speed. What has yet not happened, has not happened. And no amount of travelling at light speed or above can make it happen.

And such a well informed 'physics literate' like yourself will be aware that the theory of relativity is riddled with holes and breaks down under certain conditions. Its not a one size fits all rule for the universe.

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #51 on: October 26, 2012, 05:40:50 AM »
You claimed to be able to get information from the future. From the not yet happened. That has nothing to do with light speed. What has yet not happened, has not happened. And no amount of travelling at light speed or above can make it happen.

And such a well informed 'physics literate' like yourself will be aware that the theory of relativity is riddled with holes and breaks down under certain conditions. Its not a one size fits all rule for the universe.
To fill the huge gap in your Physics knowledge you can even go to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_travel#General_relativity to be exact. This is no cutting edge Physics, this is your run-of-the-mill university-course information. And you will even be well versed in it by watching science documentaries.

It is a well known fact that if Relativity is as we think it is and we send information or objects to a speed larger than light then backwards time travel becomes possible. There are plenty hypothesis of how backwards time travel will be forever impossible, but if we can achieve faster than light travel and no loopholes to Relativity exist, we can, at least, send information back in time.

And by the way, I did not "claim to be able to get information from the future". Your reading abilities are not only challenged by popular scientific articles, they are even challenged by simple posts for the scientifically challenged.

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Thork

Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #52 on: October 26, 2012, 08:09:48 AM »
I did not "claim to be able to get information from the future".
Yes you did.

The day someone shows you tomorrow's news today you will know that information traveled faster than light.
You are suggesting I can see the future by breaking the light speed barrier. Which of course is completely wrong. I merely get the information earlier, but never ever before the event has happened. I will always see it in the past.

It is a well known fact that if Relativity is as we think it is and we send information or objects to a speed larger than light then backwards time travel becomes possible.
Whoa whoa whoa. Let me stop you there. Why are you moving the goal posts again?

At first I claimed shadows and beams could travel faster than light. For some reason this enraged you, despite your agreeing with me.
Every physicist knows that mathematical constructs, like the group velocities of waves, can move faster than light.
Then you claimed I would know if light speed could be broken because we could see the future.
The day someone shows you tomorrow's news today you will know that information traveled faster than light.
Which is nonsense.
Once informed about that, you decide to start ranting on about 'travelling back in time' which of course also isn't the case at all. You just delay the propagation time by increasing the distance and hence receive information that is already out there, at a later time. You aren't actually going back in time, merely viewing older information.

And all this with an air of self-importance, a condescending tone and a belligerent refusal to admit that you have made several errors in a few short posts.

Amongst all this fibbing and rudeness, do you know what I think? I think that you're not a real scientist at all! >:(

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RealScientist

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Re: The creation of the universe
« Reply #53 on: October 26, 2012, 09:07:30 AM »
At first I claimed shadows and beams could travel faster than light. For some reason this enraged you, despite your agreeing with me.
Look who is enraged. You said you could move information faster than the speed of light, and you do not envision what you said, not even now.

You have not even seen that your claims have a reach that goes far beyond your wildest imagination because you have decided to be, and continue being, ignorant about General Relativity. For starters, you have not yet accepted that your claim implies that either General Relativity is totally wrong in a simple, everyday scenario or that information can travel time backwards.

Let me help you with this elemental Relativity problem that you have not been able to research for yourself. The segment of light that came from your laser beam a nanosecond ago is positioned and pointed in a straight line from where the laser was a nanosecond ago. If you could take a picture that was that fast, you would see that the light from a nanosecond ago has moved a foot from the laser, and is moving away from the place the laser was then, not now. The laser beam is not moved like a whip. Each little segment of the laser beam complies with Relativity, as everything else we know in the universe (at least until now, and maybe some subatomic particles).

If you want to see a simpler experiment, play with a garden hose. The water moves according to where the hose was when the water left the hose. The whole column of water does not move like a solid stick.

The shadow works just as the laser beam does. This is simple wave theory, where the maximums and minimums of a wave both act as waves should.

Now, you can get me any scientific paper where you see information moving faster than light and we can carry this discussion. Otherwise, rant a little more and delude yourself about your Physics knowledge. I will not reply.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 09:11:57 AM by RealScientist »