So what do you FE'ers think about this?

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating.

That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on August 27, 2012, 10:35:04 AM

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

That is a pseudo-argument caused by the sentence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, I think it's proof of a flat earth.

Quote from: burt on August 27, 2012, 11:22:52 AM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on August 27, 2012, 10:35:04 AM

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

That is a pseudo-argument caused by the sentence.

The Earth is flat because a journalist didn't do his math properly.

A sphere would show a great deal more curvature than this picture shows. It is obviously just the lit portion of a disc.

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 27, 2012, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

I agree with everything you said, apart from the last, bolded sentence. Why would you think this is so?

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on August 27, 2012, 12:51:18 PM

A sphere would show a great deal more curvature than this picture shows. It is obviously just the lit portion of a disc.

But hold on...I thought....

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on August 27, 2012, 10:35:04 AM

The picture says 34km when the school said it only reached 33km, fascinating. Furthermore, even on a round Earth one would not see any real curvature from that height. That is pseudo-curvature caused by the horizon.

Yeah, now you've really lost me...

Can you elaborate?

But how can you possibly quantify and judge how much 'pseudo curvature' you would see?

But how can you possibly quantify and judge how much 'pseudo curvature' you would see?

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

Quote from: burt on August 27, 2012, 01:10:04 PM

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 27, 2012, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

I agree with everything you said, apart from the last, bolded sentence. Why would you think this is so?

For the same reason that they think a flat earth would be a disc and not, say, square or triangular. There is no evidence to suggest that a disc is any more likely than any other shape IF the earth was flat. Yet strangely they always have it as a disc.

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 27, 2012, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

Have you ever taken the time to learn flat-earth theory? I'm seriously asking this, I'm not trying to make a joke or anything. It seems that you argue to strongly against it, yet show a myriad of misunderstandings in many posts.

I think you don't understand, Pongo.  The lit area should be centered on wherever the sun happens to be, not 360 degrees surrounding the observer, unless they're right beneath the sun (which wouldn't be the case in Wales).

And perhaps address the issues brought up rather than being condescending.  That might take some effort, though.

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 27, 2012, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

Have you ever taken the time to learn flat-earth theory? I'm seriously asking this, I'm not trying to make a joke or anything. It seems that you argue to strongly against it, yet show a myriad of misunderstandings in many posts.

I understand FET extremely well, which is why I am able to argue against it so effectively. If you think I am in error in anything in that post, bring it to my attention and we can clarify the matter. Unless you wish to do that, I will assume that you accept I'm right in what I say.

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 28, 2012, 06:33:48 AM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:35:36 PM

Quote from: The Knowledge on August 27, 2012, 01:02:50 PM

Quote from: Pongo on August 27, 2012, 11:38:02 AM

Quote from: Chablar on August 27, 2012, 10:23:21 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-18793717

In the future, try to not create topics with no content other than a link.


Also, the picture looks exactly like what you would expect to see if you were high enough over a disk. So to answer your question, we think it's proof of a flat earth.

No it doesn't. You try this one with every single photo that shows earth curvature, and the flaw in your argument this time is that this was launched from Wales.
Do you know where Wales is? If you're American, the answer will be no, but since everyone else probably does, I'll continue without further clarification. You would not be able to see a big rounded curve of the entire earth perimeter from Wales, especially at an altitude of 21 miles, if the disc of the earth is the diameter the FAQ claims it to be, as it would simply not be high enough to see it properly. Draw a diagram to scale if you don't believe me. Secondly, in order to claim the curve represents the edge of the disc and not the visible portion of a spheroid, you'd need to have more than one picture taken in different directions in order to assess if the edge was further away in one direction than in another, because unless you observe from over the centre of the disc (not Wales, for the Americans out there), there will be more curve one way than another. With a single image, you can't make that claim. Additionally, there have been high altitude images of this type in which the camera spins round a full 360 degrees and a curved edge is visible in every direction with no area of darkness where the sun is not shining. Since the sun cannot illuminate the entire disc at once, that demonstrates your hypothesis to be wrong.
And finally, if the earth was flat, it would have straight edges not curved ones.

As if there was only this photo!


Have you ever taken the time to learn flat-earth theory? I'm seriously asking this, I'm not trying to make a joke or anything. It seems that you argue to strongly against it, yet show a myriad of misunderstandings in many posts.

I understand FET extremely well, which is why I am able to argue against it so effectively. If you think I am in error in anything in that post, bring it to my attention and we can clarify the matter. Unless you wish to do that, I will assume that you accept I'm right in what I say.

Okay, I have many issues with your post, but I'll address them one at a time. How do you know that your panoramic pictures, you list as proof are high enough up to prove a round earth, yet too low to prove a flat earth? What altitude is this magic RE zone located?

Quote from: Cat Earth Theory on August 28, 2012, 01:28:07 AM

I think you don't understand, Pongo.  The lit area should be centered on wherever the sun happens to be, not 360 degrees surrounding the observer, unless they're right beneath the sun (which wouldn't be the case in Wales).

And perhaps address the issues brought up rather than being condescending.  That might take some effort, though.

Are you being serious? He spent the majority of the first half of his post trying to tell me I didn't know where Wales was located. Even if I was trying to be an ass, I wasn't, I would not feel unjustified in doing so. You're simply looking at this thread like you do everything else in life -- through round-tinted glasses.

I am quite confident that if you selected 100 random Americans and asked them to point to Wales on an unmarked map of the world, no more than about 25% would get it right. There's a very funny video on Youtube of Americans being asked where places in the world are and getting it frighteningly wrong. Even more probably think Wales is part of England. I've personally had Americans identify the location of the UK as "near Hawaii" to me. Americans are notorious in the rest of the English speaking world for not knowing anything about the world beyond the borders with Canada and Mexico.
If you want to say I'm wrong about this, you can, but my experiences in America bear out the stereotype the rest of the world has of it being ignorant of world geography. I know for a fact that virtually nothing is taught about the rest of the world in American schools.