Earth's rotation

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »
Does the Earth rotate in FET?
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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markjo

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 10:37:35 AM »
The general consensus among FE'ers is no.
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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2012, 11:20:33 AM »
The general consensus among FE'ers is no.

Has the pendulum argument been used here before?
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2012, 11:58:10 AM »
this could also be explained due to the uneven mass of the earth, the earth tilts back and forth in its upward acceleration. (this could also explain the apparant "setting" of the sun)

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2012, 12:02:24 PM »
this could also be explained due to the uneven mass of the earth, the earth tilts back and forth in its upward acceleration. (this could also explain the apparant "setting" of the sun)

This would require a consistent, oscillating rocking back and forth. Every human on earth would also be effected by it, it's not the same as centripetal acceleration, which is what makes a pendulum function in this way. It would also require a consistent gravitational pull from another flat plane or VERY large, very distant body underneath a flat earth.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 12:03:32 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of large swirling wind and water systems.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2012, 12:20:01 PM by Tom Bishop »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 12:04:45 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 12:15:45 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

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The Knowledge

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 12:37:56 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?

No FE'er has ever been able to provide data as to which direction the pull happens in, what bodies are doing the pulling, and why this would create the Foucault effect. "The heavens" is as specific as you're going to get, thogh since they are equal in every direction it's not clear how they don't cancel themselves out.
Further terrible arguments against the Foucault Pendulum are that every single one ever constructed has been built with a faking mechanism implanted by the Conspiracy in order to create the effect. I'm not making this up, that was the best they could do.
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2012, 12:41:31 PM »
i dont get how FEers can use things like the equivalence principle and machs principle to justify their claims.

1. you think science is methodologically flawed.

2. those principles are inseparable from their foundations and assumptions, all of which you wont accept.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2012, 12:50:34 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

So you do accept scientific theories as a part of reality then. I thought all scientists did was guess at things and take potshots at the trashcan with waste paper?

Plus, that source is all chopped up, I can't get a clear understanding of what Mach's principle is if I have less than 1/4 of the book to read. I'm sorry. I'll have to find it somewhere else.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Ski

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 01:24:05 PM »
Source?

No FE'er has ever been able to provide data as to which direction the pull happens in, what bodies are doing the pulling, and why this would create the Foucault effect. "The heavens" is as specific as you're going to get, thogh since they are equal in every direction it's not clear how they don't cancel themselves out.
Your continual inability to wrap your head around Mach's Principle really isn't my problem.

Quote
Further terrible arguments against the Foucault Pendulum are that every single one ever constructed has been built with a faking mechanism implanted by the Conspiracy in order to create the effect. I'm not making this up, that was the best they could do.
No, you were told and still refuse to believe that the large museum pieces all use electromagnets that kick them at a set interval. You are making things up, and your next vacation may be longer than your last few.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 01:47:53 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

If it were caused by gravity of heavenly bodies then wouldn't foucault pendulums in the same general location slowly start to sync up?

i.e. if one was started North to South and another was started East to West wouldn't  their apparent rotations slowly converge until they are swinging in the same direction at the same time? 

Just an idea. I think it would make a cool experiment if this is valid.


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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 01:52:17 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of swirling wind stems.

Source?

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

If it were caused by gravity of heavenly bodies then wouldn't foucault pendulums in the same general location slowly start to sync up?

i.e. if one was started North to South and another was started East to West wouldn't  their apparent rotations slowly converge until they are swinging in the same direction at the same time? 

Just an idea. I think it would make a cool experiment if this is valid.

That would be an interesting experiment. You could include the oceans in this, place some pendulums nearby to the ocean, and see if there motions converge with the tides. It would be very impressive if this were to be true.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Ski

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 01:54:04 PM »
Mach's Principle has nothing to do with gravity!
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 01:56:14 PM »
Mach's Principle has nothing to do with gravity!

Then I think Tom needs a beating for, again, intentionally misrepresenting information. I did not bother to read all of the scatterings of information from the pieces of the book that he used as a source.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Megaman

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 02:02:46 PM »
The heavens exhibit a slight pull as they rotate, which causes the pendulum to rotate at one rotation per 24 hours, and is the cause of large swirling wind and water systems.

I was wondering if you could clarify this.

If the apparent rotation of a foucault pendulum is caused by the pull of the heavens rotating over a flat earth, how is it possible that a foucault pendulum placed at the equator has no apparent rotation?

Furthermore, how is it possible that as you move away from the equator (North or SOUTH), the apparent rotational period of a foucault pendulum decreases?

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The Knowledge

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 02:04:25 PM »
No, you were told and still refuse to believe that the large museum pieces all use electromagnets that kick them at a set interval. You are making things up, and your next vacation may be longer than your last few.

Sorry, implying a bam threat for a post that is completely on topic and breaches no forum rule is the sign of very very poor moderating abilities.
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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trig

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2012, 03:30:14 PM »
Quote
Further terrible arguments against the Foucault Pendulum are that every single one ever constructed has been built with a faking mechanism implanted by the Conspiracy in order to create the effect. I'm not making this up, that was the best they could do.
No, you were told and still refuse to believe that the large museum pieces all use electromagnets that kick them at a set interval. You are making things up, and your next vacation may be longer than your last few.
No. You are the one who wants to see something strange in the electromagnetic mechanism that is needed so you don't have to give the pendulum a push every few hours.

You can make your own pendulum and not put any electromagnetic mechanism to counteract drag. In the few hours it takes to settle, the pendulum will have already shown you if the Earth is flat or round, and it is a relatively inexpensive, simple experiment to do in any school or university, especially if you live in Europe or the US.

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The Knowledge

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 03:37:58 PM »
Quote
Further terrible arguments against the Foucault Pendulum are that every single one ever constructed has been built with a faking mechanism implanted by the Conspiracy in order to create the effect. I'm not making this up, that was the best they could do.
No, you were told and still refuse to believe that the large museum pieces all use electromagnets that kick them at a set interval. You are making things up, and your next vacation may be longer than your last few.
No. You are the one who wants to see something strange in the electromagnetic mechanism that is needed so you don't have to give the pendulum a push every few hours.

You can make your own pendulum and not put any electromagnetic mechanism to counteract drag. In the few hours it takes to settle, the pendulum will have already shown you if the Earth is flat or round, and it is a relatively inexpensive, simple experiment to do in any school or university, especially if you live in Europe or the US.

FE'ers don't do experiments. It costs too much, apparently.
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Ski

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 05:52:41 PM »
Quote
Further terrible arguments against the Foucault Pendulum are that every single one ever constructed has been built with a faking mechanism implanted by the Conspiracy in order to create the effect. I'm not making this up, that was the best they could do.
No, you were told and still refuse to believe that the large museum pieces all use electromagnets that kick them at a set interval. You are making things up, and your next vacation may be longer than your last few.
No. You are the one who wants to see something strange in the electromagnetic mechanism that is needed so you don't have to give the pendulum a push every few hours.

You can make your own pendulum and not put any electromagnetic mechanism to counteract drag. In the few hours it takes to settle, the pendulum will have already shown you if the Earth is flat or round, and it is a relatively inexpensive, simple experiment to do in any school or university, especially if you live in Europe or the US.

I never disputed that Foucault's pendulum works. I simply refuted the strawman you and others are foisting.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2012, 06:15:12 PM »
Since we all agree that it works, can we get back to the main topic.

Namely that FE's theory can't accurately explain the behavior of Foucault pendulums.

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Ski

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 06:31:08 PM »
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 06:41:06 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I saw nothing in mach's principle that would account for a Foucault pendulum having different rotational periods based on its longitude.

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Ski

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2012, 06:51:21 PM »
Then yes, you missed something.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2012, 07:02:33 PM »
Wow, that was so helpful! Thanks man!  :D

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2012, 05:33:38 AM »
Look up Match's Principle.

How exactly does mach's principle pertain to the rotational period of a pendulum? Last I knew it pertained to the "sound barrier."
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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trig

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Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2012, 08:43:18 AM »
Maybe I'm missing something but I saw nothing in mach's principle that would account for a Foucault pendulum having different rotational periods based on its longitude.
Yes, you are missing the fact that FE'ers do not understand Mach's Principle enough to make their case. They can only say "look at Mach's Principle", just like they would say "look at that ink blot test until you see a butterfly". To my knowledge, Mach's Principle has never gotten to the point where a specific experiment can either falsify or verify the principle. It is not like Special Relativity or General Relativity, which are inspired in the Mach Principle but are falsifiable and have been tested with experiments or observations.

In particular, Mach's Principle does not even give a hint at exact formulas to predict Focault's Pendulum's movements, but the simple Laws of Motion by Newton, plus the known facts about the Earth and its motions, accurately predict the movements of Foucault's Pendulum. GR would be an improvement, but it would be such a small one that it is not worth the trouble.

Re: Earth's rotation
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2012, 09:14:16 AM »
Mach is really only saying that there is no privileged inertial frame, and that the Earth rotates not with respect to Newtonian, absolute space, but with respect to all of the other masses in the universe.  Since there is no privileged frame of reference for motion, it makes as much sense to say that the heavens are rotating around us as it does to say that the Earth is rotating.  It's not at all suggesting that the Earth could just as well be flat, nor that the shape, size, location, and surroundings of the Earth are different from the scientific description. 

The point is that Mach's principle still only explains Foucault pendulums if the Earth is a spheroid.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 09:37:40 AM by garygreen »
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --