When did the conspiracy start?

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tunu

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When did the conspiracy start?
« on: August 11, 2012, 09:50:52 PM »
I'm still trying to get a handle on this whole FET. The idea of a multi-national, multi-generational conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth is of interest to me.  Does anyone have any ideas (evidence?) of when the conspiracy started? what was the first lie told to hide the true shape of the earth, who told it?

more importantly what prompted it?  It seems to me that since there hasn't always been a RET around, at some point someone came up with it. Was the conspiracy started at the same time as the first RET?

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Rushy

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 09:56:17 PM »
The conspiracy is centered around the Cold War era, mainly when the space race was at full throttle. NASA wanted the world to think it landed a man on the moon. Well, when they first created the studio, they depicted a round Earth. This, of course, is incorrect. If the world were to find out that the Earth is flat, it would destroy NASA and its continuing scam. The conspiracy is not a big bad super villain (illuminati, etc.). They simply don't want the world knowing the Space Race lie.

NASA (everyone that works there) genuinely believe the Earth to be round.

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Ski

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 10:06:50 PM »
This is an exceedingly difficult question to answer. I generally try to avoid conspiracy topics in general, because it seems specious to me, but I will attempt to answer your question because it has been some time since I've posted on the matter.

I think the first trace of "the conspiracy" in general shows up in the 1100's. This is as far back as one can trace the Machiavellian writhings of the House of Guelph-Este. This is not exactly the question I believe you are asking, however. I believe you are asking when the conspiracy expanded to hide the shape of the earth began. This was somewhat later.


The conspiracy traces to Nuremberg the 14th and 15th centuries and the ascendency of the BGMG under the House of Guelph. In the 15th century cartography was entering an exciting new time. New lands were being found. Previously uncharted islands, indeed even continents, were being added to world maps. The BGMG found a splendid way to find massive amounts of Royal funding (commissions). If you convince burgeoning world powers that their maps are completely inadequate and only a globe can accurately depict the earth, one is in for a lot of commissioned work. Add to that the fact globes became a status symbol in vogue among the wealthy of the period and you have an enormous cash cow.
But this ignores (or only scrapes) the actual depth of the plan. The goal of the BGMG was not map-making or wealth from it. The simple goal was power. To gain influence at court led to all sorts of potential for abuse of such power. This was an age where the court was the center of power; "scientists" vied to have their ideas heard. The difference between living in obscurity and becoming a household name was a "discovery" away.
Further, it was the Age of Discovery, where untold wealth might be a ship's journey away for a kingdom -- indeed this was the genesis of European imperialism. Map makers invented islands and continents to attain funding for expeditions. The closer you find yourselves to the strings of power, the more opportunity for corruption.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Megaman

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 10:11:52 PM »
The conspiracy is centered around the Cold War era, mainly when the space race was at full throttle. NASA wanted the world to think it landed a man on the moon. Well, when they first created the studio, they depicted a round Earth. This, of course, is incorrect. If the world were to find out that the Earth is flat, it would destroy NASA and its continuing scam. The conspiracy is not a big bad super villain (illuminati, etc.). They simply don't want the world knowing the Space Race lie.

NASA (everyone that works there) genuinely believe the Earth to be round.

So.... the conspiracy involves just NASA.... and other space faring nations go along with it just to help NASA out?


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tunu

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 11:37:56 PM »
Quote
I think the first trace of "the conspiracy" in general shows up in the 1100's. This is as far back as one can trace the Machiavellian writhings of the House of Guelph-Este. This is not exactly the question I believe you are asking, however. I believe you are asking when the conspiracy expanded to hide the shape of the earth began. This was somewhat later.


wait, now I'm confused again. Are you saying that every conspiracy, ever, has in fact been one big conspiracy? and, at some point they decided to add "lets tell them the earth is round" to the list of lies?


A note on "Ski"s comments about cartography and exploration, if the goal was to dupe the most money possible out of as many governments as possible for as long as possible by making "new maps", wouldn't the ideal shape be an "infinite disc", not a "finite sphere"?

Why would these con men choose a shape that would inevitably run out of empty space for them to "invent new continents" on for fun and profit?

please help, this conspiracy is getting bigger, and it's veracity is getting smaller.  Please tell me you have something else.

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Ski

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 01:00:49 AM »
Of course not every conspiracy ever. There does exist, however, a common thread in western wisdom cults that runs through the House of Guelph-Estes. No conspiracy exists for the sole end of promoting a globe (excepting perhaps the space agencies, but that, too, is a means to an end). The choice of the globe was simply the chronological bias of the time. People have erringly believed in a round earth long before the 1300's; that falsehood began with the Pythagorean number cult and persists today.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Tom Bishop

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 07:28:11 AM »
NASA does not know the world is flat. They are ignorant on the matter. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel, not to conduct real earth science. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone -- they don't even know it themselves. They are not running a real space program, after all
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:33:09 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 07:36:32 AM »
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

I don't know how you can take yourself seriously.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:59:36 AM by garygreen »
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 08:05:23 AM »
the conspiracy started when people who believe in a planar earth stopped doing experiments to determine the truth.
instead they just cry conspiracy when evidence is presented to them.

I am glad there are true Zetetics here that do not have to rely on a massive conspiracy to determine the real shape of the earth.

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tunu

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 08:21:53 AM »
I'm still having a hard time understanding this conspiracy.

Why did they pick a globe as the false shape of the planet?

Why have they maintained that fallacy all this time?

Is there anyone that knows the truth (i.e. the world is flat) that is doing any REAL earth science and exploration?

Thanks guys, (most of) you have been helpful :)

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 08:27:43 AM »
i am unsure, but believe it is planar until evidence would disprove this.
I have done a few experiments, and currently  working on a new map, with the help of other Zetetics.

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tunu

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 08:38:20 AM »
i am unsure, but believe it is planar until evidence would disprove this.


why?

you're starting with the assumption that the world is flat, why would you do that?

Where does that assumption stem from?

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hoppy

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
NASA does not know the world is flat. They are ignorant on the matter. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel, not to conduct real earth science. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone -- they don't even know it themselves. They are not running a real space program, after all
Tom I don't see how you can think this. NASA claims satelites are orbiting a spherical earth. If the satelites are not there, they would have to be lying about it. How can they think that satelites are orbiting, when they are not.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2012, 11:41:33 AM »
NASA does not know the world is flat. They are ignorant on the matter. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel, not to conduct real earth science. NASA is not hiding the shape of the earth from anyone -- they don't even know it themselves. They are not running a real space program, after all
Tom I don't see how you can think this. NASA claims satelites are orbiting a spherical earth. If the satelites are not there, they would have to be lying about it. How can they think that satelites are orbiting, when they are not.

I bolded the part in my quote you missed. The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel, which includes satellites. Since NASA couldn't achieve space travel, they are using alternative technologies such as stratellites and pseudolites to perform the duties of a satellite.

It's a space travel conspiracy, not a flat earth conspiracy. The conspiracy has nothing to do with the shape of the earth except that a round world is what the public expected to see at the time of NASA's creation. NASA is not hiding the shape of the world from anyone. They are simply mistaken about it. When they put together their space hoaxes they depict a round earth because they were taught that the earth was round in grade school like everyone else.

Also see: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2012, 12:32:29 PM »
When they put together their space hoaxes they depict a round earth because they were taught that the earth was round in grade school like everyone else.

Also see: http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Motive_of_the_Conspiracy

You say this a lot.  The scientific community has good reasons to believe that the Earth is round.  It's one thing to disagree with those reasons, but it's another altogether to say that they're nonexistent, and that everyone in the world but you and your friends believes in a round Earth simply because they were told that in elementary school.  We believe in a round Earth because we are compelled by the evidence, just as you are compelled by your evidence.

You're suggesting that none of us is capable of relinquishing any belief we had as children.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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Tom Bishop

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2012, 12:51:09 PM »
The scientific community does not have good reason outside of NASA to believe that the earth is round. It's a dogmatic belief which has been passed down from generation to generation since the times of the Ancient Greeks. The idea of a round earth is little more than media hype which people follow like dogs to the whistle.

The proofs for the earth's rotoundity have been discussed on this forum at length over the years, and each shown to be false or flawed. I suggest you search.

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2012, 12:54:04 PM »
I have yet to see any refutation that does not use Rowbotham's flawed [mis]interpretation of perspective.

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Ski

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2012, 01:41:06 PM »
I'm still having a hard time understanding this conspiracy.

Why did they pick a globe as the false shape of the planet?

Because that was already the predominate (mis-)conception about the shape of the earth. They simply promoted it for graft.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2012, 01:48:49 PM »
Why would the maps of the royalty be wrong if they were already built on globularist ideas?
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Ski

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2012, 01:49:52 PM »
I imagine the maps of Europe weren't greatly incorrect.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2012, 01:52:59 PM »
If the belief in a round earth was already so ingrained, I'm not seeing how the Guelphs or whatever could use it for gain.  Cartographers and explorers would already be assuming the earth was round.  The only exciting thing happening map-wise would be adding new places, but that would require actual exploration and not just saying "hey guys, the earth is round" which they apparently already knew.

This makes little sense.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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markjo

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2012, 05:27:32 PM »
The scientific community does not have good reason outside of NASA to believe that the earth is round. It's a dogmatic belief which has been passed down from generation to generation since the times of the Ancient Greeks. The idea of a round earth is little more than media hype which people follow like dogs to the whistle.

The proofs for the earth's rotoundity have been discussed on this forum at length over the years, and each shown to be false or flawed. I suggest you search.

Except for the fact that a good number of geodetic surveys have measured the roundity of the earth to great precision long before NASA was created.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_geodesy
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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dado

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2012, 06:59:03 PM »
The purpose of NASA is to fake the concept of space travel, which includes satellites.
WOW, what a statement.
If NASA launched/set up "pseudollites" then, sureley they must have known the Earth is flat. Or else they would just launch "normal" satellites as they expected Earth to be round so the normal satellites would circle around the Earth... This undoubtably leads to us to conclusion that NASA in fact knows the shape of the Earth.

So, how about NASA/USA's top enemies -  such as Iran or North Korea, what interest do they have in supporting Nasa's false theory about RE? Do have in mind that Iran is a very religious country and they would not mess with God's will had god made Earth flat, they'd admit that...
Both of these countries (Iran and N.Korea) have their space programs, maybe not as advanced as NASA, but they exist... on the other hand they are not investing in their space programs (that much money) like NASA is accused here.
If FE was true, every nation would laundry a lot of money through space programs...
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 07:04:36 PM by dado »

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2012, 07:25:46 PM »
If Nasa can get it wrong, why cant other space agencies?
There are very few true Zetetics, when they finally reach space, the truth will finally be known.

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dado

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2012, 07:37:39 PM »
Nasa does not get it wrong, the existance of either Pseudollites or satellites proves that Nasa knows what it is doing.
If there are pseudollites then it's Nasa's conspiracy, if there are satellites then it's RE.
Simple as that, in any case - Nasa knows if the Earth is flat or round.

Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2012, 08:30:30 PM »
The scientific community does not have good reason outside of NASA to believe that the earth is round. It's a dogmatic belief which has been passed down from generation to generation since the times of the Ancient Greeks. The idea of a round earth is little more than media hype which people follow like dogs to the whistle.

The proofs for the earth's rotoundity have been discussed on this forum at length over the years, and each shown to be false or flawed. I suggest you search.

I've repeated demonstrated this to be false in threads that you dropped.

I've demonstrated the methods used to calculate the positions of the planets using Kepler's equation (M=E-e sin E) for any future date.  I'd be happy to post the links again.

I've also demonstrated at least one method (there are several) of proving Kepler's laws of planetary motion using only plane geometry.

Again, it's one thing to disagree with RE methodology.  It's another thing to say that RE has no methodology.  I've made it available to you.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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tunu

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2012, 12:16:29 AM »
You've mentioned "zetetics" as a group of people or philosophy(?) a few times, bu you haven't answered my question:

Is FET a religious belief, or a scientific hypothesis?

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hoppy

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2012, 06:16:16 AM »
You've mentioned "zetetics" as a group of people or philosophy(?) a few times, bu you haven't answered my question:

Is FET a religious belief, or a scientific hypothesis?
FE is a scientific fact.
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dado

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2012, 06:20:43 AM »

FE is a scientific fact.
[/quote]
Really? Based on what research and what evidence?

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hoppy

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Re: When did the conspiracy start?
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2012, 07:45:27 AM »

FE is a scientific fact.
Really? Based on what research and what evidence?
[/quote]Based on my personal research, which I have posted on TFES. Also ENaG by Rowbotham.
God is real.                                         
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