Curiosity rover

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Lorddave

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #90 on: August 09, 2012, 12:57:08 PM »
That only explains the vertical line. Not the horizontal ones.
You mean the crater?
Gone.

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #91 on: August 09, 2012, 04:16:56 PM »
How will the computer know where the ground is if the metal box is blocking the radar?

The same way they claim to have landed every other lander using retrorockets. That's the best argument you have; NASA is to incompetent to properly place a radar altimeter?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #92 on: August 09, 2012, 04:31:31 PM »
No legitimate reason exists for the use of this "Skycrane" over the use of another standard and cheaper landing system. The Skycrane is pure sensationalism, which makes one wonder why NASA would want to lend anything to sensationalism.

An organization that has recently had it's funding cut by it's biggest sponsor does not spend billions of dollars on "sensationalism."

Except that in this case the "sensationalism" is essentially an advertisement. They even gave the animations a sensationalist name: "Seven Minutes of Terror!".   Are you really trying to argue that the whole thing is not a sensationalist sales pitch? It's a CGI B-movie.

I'd argue that if I were in charge of an organization that was facing budget cuts, I would have picked the safest possible landing system as opposed to the riskiest. But hey, "Seven Minutes of Terror" probably got them a few phone calls from acolytes to senators PT Barnum style.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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garygreen

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #93 on: August 09, 2012, 04:37:28 PM »
ITT a bunch of people who have absolutely no engineering experience make outrageously definitive statements about how they would have landed a rover on Mars.

What a joke.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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Rushy

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #94 on: August 09, 2012, 04:41:27 PM »
ITT a bunch of people who have absolutely no engineering experience make outrageously definitive statements about how they would have landed a rover on Mars.

What a joke.

Lurk moar.

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garygreen

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #95 on: August 09, 2012, 04:54:51 PM »
ITT a bunch of people who have absolutely no engineering experience, and some internet trolls, make outrageously definitive statements about how they would have landed a rover on Mars.

What a joke.

Lurk moar.

fixd
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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Lorddave

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #96 on: August 09, 2012, 04:59:35 PM »
How will the computer know where the ground is if the metal box is blocking the radar?

The same way they claim to have landed every other lander using retrorockets.
Hold on, let me count those...

Mars 3 - Through aerodynamic braking, parachutes, and retrorockets, the lander achieved a soft landing at 45°S 158°W and began operations. However, after 20 seconds the instruments stopped working for unknown reasons.

Mars 6 - The descent module entered the atmosphere at 09:05:53 UT at a speed of 5.6 km/s. The parachute opened at 09:08:32 UT after the module had slowed its speed to 600 m/s by aerobraking. During this time the craft was collecting data and transmitting it directly to the bus for immediate relay to Earth. Contact with the descent module was lost at 09:11:05 UT in "direct proximity to the surface", probably either when the retrorockets fired or when it hit the surface at an estimated 61 m/s. Mars 6 landed at 23.90°S 19.42°W in the Margaritifer Terra region of Mars. The landed mass was 635 kg. The descent module transmitted 224 seconds of data before transmissions ceased

That's two that used retrorockets to land.
However, none of them have ever landed softly.  Their weights were also less. 



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That's the best argument you have; NASA is to incompetent to properly place a radar altimeter?
Yeah... the only place you could put it that wouldn't have it ripped apart by the 200mph wind force is the bottom of the box.  And tell me, what happens when you land a box with a radar panel on the bottom onto a surface with a lot of rocks? 

As for the Dust, it's not about the lenses so much (though I'd love to see you design dust resistant covers that can retract mechanically) but also the amount of dust that could get into all the various doors and crevices that require a sterile environment, such as the whole internal lab.  High velocity dust is bad.  And when you blast dust with a rocket, the dust particles fly pretty fast.


But here's a lot of other reasons:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Science_Laboratory
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For several reasons, a different landing system was chosen for MSL compared to previous Mars landers and rovers. Curiosity was considered too heavy to use the airbag landing system as used on the Mars Pathfinder and Mars Exploration. A legged lander approach would have caused several design problems.[64] It would have needed to have engines high enough above the ground when landing not to form a dust cloud that could damage the rover's instruments. This would have required long landing legs that would need to have significant width to keep the center of gravity low. A legged lander would have also required ramps so the rover could drive down to the surface, which would have incurred extra risk to the mission on the chance rocks or tilt would prevent Curiosity from being able to drive off the lander successfully. Faced with these challenges, the MSL engineers came up with a novel alternative solution: the sky crane.[64] The sky crane system lowered the rover with a 7.6 m (25 ft)[64] tether to a soft landing—wheels down—on the surface of Mars.[57][71][72] This system consists of three bridles lowering the rover and an umbilical cable carrying electrical signals between the descent stage and rover. As the support and data cables unreeled, the rover's six motorized wheels snapped into position. At roughly 7.5 m (25 ft) below the descent stage the sky crane system slowed to a halt and the rover touched down. After the rover touched down, it waited 2 seconds to confirm that it was on solid ground by detecting the weight on the wheels and fired several pyros (small explosive devices) activating cable cutters on the bridle and umbilical cords to free itself from the descent stage. The descent stage flew away to a crash landing 650 m (2,100 ft) away.[73] The sky crane powered descent landing system had never been used in missions before.[74]

http://spaceflightnow.com/mars/msl/120731skycrane/

Basically:
Rocks cause problems with ramps. 
Gone.

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #97 on: August 09, 2012, 05:35:44 PM »
Hold on, let me count those...

Mars 3 - Through aerodynamic braking, parachutes, and retrorockets, the lander achieved a soft landing at 45°S 158°W and began operations. However, after 20 seconds the instruments stopped working for unknown reasons.


However, none of them have ever landed softly.

???


Curiously you make no mention of the Viking 1 or 2, or the even more recent Phoenix lander all of which supposedly used retrorockets. Nor of the Venus landers... It's almost as if you picked the one apparent failure (and another mission failure which had nothing to do with the landing) deliberately neglecting the countless other lies that we're supposed to swallow whole-heartedly.




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Quote
That's the best argument you have; NASA is to incompetent to properly place a radar altimeter?
Yeah... the only place you could put it that wouldn't have it ripped apart by the 200mph wind force is the bottom of the box.  And tell me, what happens when you land a box with a radar panel on the bottom onto a surface with a lot of rocks? 

Why would one need a radar altimeter after the lander has, in fact, landed?  ???  Why would you care if it was crushed? Secondly, it's easy to make a flush antenna. Or if they really wanted to be fancy for us, they could use a LIDAR.

Stop making excuses for this farce. In fact, if I thought NASA was a legitimate mission, I'd be even more irritated that they chose a riskier method for their multi-billion dollar operation. What an incredible gamble on an expensive gee-whiz gadget to impress the masses.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #98 on: August 09, 2012, 06:00:49 PM »
Fortunately for taxpayers everywhere, the very risky multi-billion dollar "sky crane" worked to animated perfection, but this NASA far simpler endeavour ends a touch more ignominiously today.

http://www.space.com/17027-morpheus-rocket-crashes-during-test-flight-video.html


"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Moon squirter

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #99 on: August 09, 2012, 10:44:36 PM »
Fortunately for taxpayers everywhere, the very risky multi-billion dollar "sky crane" worked to animated perfection, but this NASA far simpler endeavour ends a touch more ignominiously today.

http://www.space.com/17027-morpheus-rocket-crashes-during-test-flight-video.html

Whether it worked or didn't work, whether it's risky or safe, grainy or clear: it makes no difference to you. The angry ranting goes on.

You have yet to provide strong evidence this mission is faked.  It that the real reason you are angry?
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Vindictus

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #100 on: August 09, 2012, 11:28:49 PM »
Fortunately for taxpayers everywhere, the very risky multi-billion dollar "sky crane" worked to animated perfection, but this NASA far simpler endeavour ends a touch more ignominiously today.

http://www.space.com/17027-morpheus-rocket-crashes-during-test-flight-video.html

Whether it worked or didn't work, whether it's risky or safe, grainy or clear: it makes no difference to you. The angry ranting goes on.

You have yet to provide strong evidence this mission is faked.  It that the real reason you are angry?

DA's will be DA's. It annoys me when it's done in a thread like this in the lower fora, but what can you do about it?

Anyway, here's an extended panoramic version of the previously posted, black and white photo:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA16029.jpg

The black parts are where the camera crew is, presumably.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2012, 11:34:52 PM by Vindictus »

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #101 on: August 09, 2012, 11:50:52 PM »
If I'm angry at anything it is that my tax dollars are being spent to line the pockets of these transparent shucksters.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #102 on: August 10, 2012, 01:20:47 AM »
If you want to design and land your own rovers, go play kerbal Space Program.

Very good fun, this was my rover and return rocket design landed on the small moon of Minmus.

Leave the actual rocket science to the actual rocket scientists.

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Lorddave

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #103 on: August 10, 2012, 03:39:39 AM »
Hold on, let me count those...

Mars 3 - Through aerodynamic braking, parachutes, and retrorockets, the lander achieved a soft landing at 45°S 158°W and began operations. However, after 20 seconds the instruments stopped working for unknown reasons.


However, none of them have ever landed softly.

???


Curiously you make no mention of the Viking 1 or 2, or the even more recent Phoenix lander all of which supposedly used retrorockets. Nor of the Venus landers... It's almost as if you picked the one apparent failure (and another mission failure which had nothing to do with the landing) deliberately neglecting the countless other lies that we're supposed to swallow whole-heartedly.

No it's about my searching skills. I didn't do a good enough job. And I'm sorry for the contradiction on soft landing.

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Quote
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That's the best argument you have; NASA is to incompetent to properly place a radar altimeter?
Yeah... the only place you could put it that wouldn't have it ripped apart by the 200mph wind force is the bottom of the box.  And tell me, what happens when you land a box with a radar panel on the bottom onto a surface with a lot of rocks? 

Why would one need a radar altimeter after the lander has, in fact, landed?  ???  Why would you care if it was crushed? Secondly, it's easy to make a flush antenna. Or if they really wanted to be fancy for us, they could use a LIDAR.

Stop making excuses for this farce. In fact, if I thought NASA was a legitimate mission, I'd be even more irritated that they chose a riskier method for their multi-billion dollar operation. What an incredible gamble on an expensive gee-whiz gadget to impress the masses.
Odd that you have nothing to say about the article quoting actual engineers and their rational. Could it be that you can't accept uneducated opinions but happily accept the voice of experts but don't want us to know?

If I'm angry at anything it is that my tax dollars are being spent to line the pockets of these transparent shucksters.
Then why don't you stop paying taxes? Or leave the country. Or run for office so you can shut NASA down. Because if complaining about what the government does with THEIR money is all you have, then you're just background noise.
Gone.

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #104 on: August 10, 2012, 06:02:13 AM »
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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garygreen

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #105 on: August 10, 2012, 06:25:10 AM »
If I'm angry at anything it is that my tax dollars are being spent to line the pockets of these transparent shucksters.

Wouldn't you already have to be pretty rich and powerful to fake landing a rover on Mars?  Have these people never heard of compound interest?
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #106 on: August 10, 2012, 07:26:14 AM »
As far as that Morpheus rocket failure... what makes you think that lander was less complicated than a skycrane? It has to be PERFECTLY balanced to work correctly. One slight error, a gram or two off, TADA you're lander is screwed.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Syntax

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #107 on: August 10, 2012, 08:02:14 AM »

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #108 on: August 10, 2012, 08:05:38 AM »
If you want to design and land your own rovers, go play kerbal Space Program.

Very good fun, this was my rover and return rocket design landed on the small moon of Minmus.

Leave the actual rocket science to the actual rocket scientists.

Absolutely awesome game. I built a make-shift skycrane on there out of stock parts to drop a stock parts, rocket powered rover that is very hard to control. It was awesome.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #109 on: August 10, 2012, 08:33:56 AM »
Odd that you have nothing to say about the article quoting actual engineers and their rational.
That's odd, because there were also several articles with quotes from engineers involved in the project saying, in effect, "I wish we had done it with a proven, less risky method." 

Quote
Then why don't you stop paying taxes? Or leave the country. Or run for office so you can shut NASA down. Because if complaining about what the government does with THEIR money is all you have, then you're just background noise.
I'm not even sure where to begin on "THEIR money".  Why not eliminate the GAO altogether, eh?
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #110 on: August 10, 2012, 08:47:01 AM »
If you want to design and land your own rovers, go play kerbal Space Program.
Very good fun, this was my rover and return rocket design landed on the small moon of Minmus.

Leave the actual rocket science to the actual rocket scientists.

Absolutely awesome game. I built a make-shift skycrane on there out of stock parts to drop a stock parts, rocket powered rover that is very hard to control. It was awesome.

I haven't gotten around to building a skycrane, yet. I have to build a return craft to bring my 8 kerbals back from my base on Minmus (I could just lift the base off, but I want to leave it up there!) and then I plan on building my first 0.16 space station, I haven't perfected rendezvous yet so I'm looking forward to performing my first in-orbit EVA crew-swap.

Also, very cool photo of Gale Crater, there. Is that Mt Sharp we can see in the distance?

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29silhouette

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #111 on: August 10, 2012, 10:32:01 AM »
NASA has ony provided us a few blurry pictures to look at. There's really not that much to discuss.
Just like car headlights being magnified?
http://theflatearthsociety.org/wiki/index.php?title=Magnification_of_the_Sun_at_Sunset

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #112 on: August 10, 2012, 10:34:14 AM »
If you want to design and land your own rovers, go play kerbal Space Program.
Very good fun, this was my rover and return rocket design landed on the small moon of Minmus.

Leave the actual rocket science to the actual rocket scientists.

Absolutely awesome game. I built a make-shift skycrane on there out of stock parts to drop a stock parts, rocket powered rover that is very hard to control. It was awesome.

I haven't gotten around to building a skycrane, yet. I have to build a return craft to bring my 8 kerbals back from my base on Minmus (I could just lift the base off, but I want to leave it up there!) and then I plan on building my first 0.16 space station, I haven't perfected rendezvous yet so I'm looking forward to performing my first in-orbit EVA crew-swap.

Also, very cool photo of Gale Crater, there. Is that Mt Sharp we can see in the distance?

I usually do an EVA swap from within 300 meters. No farther, but If I'm within 300 meters without a lot of relative velocity, I do it. I bring my 3 man single stage to orbit plane to my all stock parts (except the crewtank mod) space station for crew swap. I also have a Munbase that's unneccesarily large of almost all stock parts, I have plans for a larger space station with a docking bay made from wing connectors, and plans for a minmus base, as well as a 3rd space station.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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garygreen

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #113 on: August 10, 2012, 12:01:59 PM »


Look at how big.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2012, 12:07:20 PM »


Look at how big.

Uh oh, now tom has ammo for his poor argument. LOOK THAT DESERT LOOKS KIND OF REDDISH AND HAS SOME RED-STONE IN IT!!!!
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

?

Lorddave

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2012, 12:17:51 PM »


Look at how big.

Uh oh, now tom has ammo for his poor argument. LOOK THAT DESERT LOOKS KIND OF REDDISH AND HAS SOME RED-STONE IN IT!!!!
That's because Tom doesn't believe in testing.
Gone.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2012, 12:21:36 PM »


Look at how big.

Uh oh, now tom has ammo for his poor argument. LOOK THAT DESERT LOOKS KIND OF REDDISH AND HAS SOME RED-STONE IN IT!!!!
That's because Tom doesn't believe in testing.

It's all a hoax man!
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/gallery-indexEvents.html

Look at #89 in the Curiosity gallery just to humour me.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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garygreen

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2012, 07:40:15 PM »
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/gallery-indexEvents.html

Look at #89 in the Curiosity gallery just to humour me.

I'm guessing that you mean to point out the Eye of Providence on the US dollar.
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --

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Ski

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Re: Curiosity rover
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2012, 07:47:02 PM »
Or Horus, or whatever name you wish to call it by. Yes.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."