i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt

I still don't get how this image is possible in the FE model.

If you flip around the magnifying glass, making the sun's image appear large on the ground, you will not be able to burn ants.

Umm...  Sorry Tom but magnifying glasses don't work like that.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 07:23:30 AM

If you flip around the magnifying glass, making the sun's image appear large on the ground, you will not be able to burn ants.

Umm...  Sorry Tom but magnifying glasses don't work like that.

Once side of the magnifying glass magnifies images, the other side of the magnifying glass shrinks images. Please review a magnifying glass.

Quote from: markjo on July 31, 2012, 09:11:22 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 07:23:30 AM

If you flip around the magnifying glass, making the sun's image appear large on the ground, you will not be able to burn ants.

Umm...  Sorry Tom but magnifying glasses don't work like that.

Once side of the magnifying glass magnifies images, the other side of the magnifying glass shrinks images. Please review a magnifying glass.

They have convex lenses (all the ones I've seen). This there any subject that you cannot be wrong on?

Quote from: markjo on July 31, 2012, 09:11:22 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 07:23:30 AM

If you flip around the magnifying glass, making the sun's image appear large on the ground, you will not be able to burn ants.

Umm...  Sorry Tom but magnifying glasses don't work like that.

Once side of the magnifying glass magnifies images, the other side of the magnifying glass shrinks images. Please review a magnifying glass.

I'm afraid you're wrong.

A Convex lenses has a real focal point which magnifys an image, a concave lens has a virtual focal point which makes the image appear smaller. Turning either around will not make a difference.

Get a magnifying glass yourself and test it out.

Quote from: markjo on July 31, 2012, 09:11:22 AM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 07:23:30 AM

If you flip around the magnifying glass, making the sun's image appear large on the ground, you will not be able to burn ants.

Umm...  Sorry Tom but magnifying glasses don't work like that.

Once side of the magnifying glass magnifies images, the other side of the magnifying glass shrinks images. Please review a magnifying glass.

Wow.  You're literally the least informed human being I've ever encountered in my life.  I'm almost speechless.  Honestly, how are you able to hold down a job?

1.  Pick up a magnifying glass.
2.  Look at something.
3.  Flip the magnifying glass around.
4.  HOLY SHIT NOTHING CHANGED THAT'S SO WEIRD i mean oh wait that's exactly the way a convex lens works nevermind
5.  Conclusion: your magnifying glass is in on the conspiracy.

I don't believe I specified the type of lens used.

None the less, reported.

I don't believe I specified the type of lens used.

None the less, reported.

It doesn't matter what type of lens you're talking about you can't have a lens that can make images smaller on one side and magnify on the other.

I don't believe I specified the type of lens used.

None the less, reported.

Sorry Tom, but being deliberately vague doesn't make this any less of a fail.  The magnifying glass that everyone thinks of when you say "magnifying glass" is a convex lens, plain and simple.

I don't believe I specified the type of lens used.

Know ye of such an eye glass?

I don't believe I specified the type of lens used.

None the less, reported.

Cool.  Report this one, too.

You still haven't specified a lens other than 'magnifying glass.'  Please do so.  I can't wait to hear what lens you think has the properties you describe. 

Are you really this incapable of admitting that you're wrong?

At this point it is necessary to remind forum user Tom Bishop that trolling is against the rules of this forum.

You guys Bishop is right about the lenses. When you look through the glass at a news paper for instance the print is bigger. On the other side the light is concentrated for instance, when you burn ants with the sun.

You guys Bishop is right about the lenses. When you look through the glass at a news paper for instance the print is bigger. On the other side the light is concentrated for instance, when you burn ants with the sun.

Yet if you turn it BACK around, the way not to burn ants, you will see a larger, bright circle on the ground. This is because the light is greatly focused, and then spread back out a little bit, making the object appear larger in your field of view, or the light that comes through from the other side focused, but less focused than if you wanted to burn ants.

Every magnifying glass I've ever messed with gives me the same results regardless of which side I'm looking at.  What creates a difference between the object being enlarged and my eye, and a focused spot of sunlight that burns and the sun itself, is the varied distance of the enlarged object/burning point and my eye/sun.

Now if someone has a magnifying glass that behaves completely different by simply turning it around, perhaps they could post a picture of it.  Video would be great.  Maybe an online source and description?

Please stop deflecting from the issue. The fact is that when a magnifying glass enlarges, it spreads out the light rays, and the resulting image is dimmer. When a magnifying glass concentrates an image the light rays are closer together and the image is brighter.

See: A projector.

Please stop deflecting from the issue. The fact is that when a magnifying glass enlarges, it spreads out the light rays, and the resulting image is dimmer. When a magnifying glass concentrates an image the light rays are closer together and the image is brighter.

See: A projector.

I believe it is you who is deflecting the issue, unless you can explain how the pictures linked in this post work with Rowbothams mistaken assertions of the cause of sunrise and sunset.

And how does Rowbotham explain the rays of light from the sun travelling parallel and upwards from the earth-plane's surface - given that they are not reflected?

Every magnifying glass I've ever messed with gives me the same results regardless of which side I'm looking at.  What creates a difference between the object being enlarged and my eye, and a focused spot of sunlight that burns and the sun itself, is the varied distance of the enlarged object/burning point and my eye/sun.

Now if someone has a magnifying glass that behaves completely different by simply turning it around, perhaps they could post a picture of it.  Video would be great.  Maybe an online source and description?

I'm thinking of the something that has one concave side, one convex (which is coincidentally, not a magnifying glass). Tom is talking about a projector, which is a similar lens to what I just mentioned. The magnifying glass you would use for reading or looking at something very small on a table/page is two convex lenses, one for focusing light and the other to cause the image to appear larger.

And how does Rowbotham explain the rays of light from the sun travelling parallel and upwards from the earth-plane's surface - given that they are not reflected?

They are traveling parallel to the earth's surface due to perspective. I see no evidence in your image that they are traveling upwards.

Quote from: Samuel Birley Rowbotham

[/quote]

Samuel Rowbotham thinks the ground goes up away from the observer?

Samuel Rowbotham thinks the ground goes up away from the observer?

Look into the distance and notice that the lands beneath you seem to rise to the level of your eye.

Quote from: Kendrick on July 27, 2012, 02:54:42 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 27, 2012, 08:19:52 AM

Perspective cannot make the light literally come at you horizontally (or even from a point slightly below horizontal) if the Sun is 3100 miles above you.  The Sun itself is not only visible beneath the clouds, but the shadow of the mountain is being cast upwards, onto the clouds.  Perspective does not explain this. 

I really don't think it's worth debating with Tom. 

Quote from: Kendrick on July 31, 2012, 01:20:30 PM

And how does Rowbotham explain the rays of light from the sun travelling parallel and upwards from the earth-plane's surface - given that they are not reflected?

They are traveling parallel to the earth's surface due to perspective. I see no evidence in your image that they are traveling upwards.

The entire cloud layer is illuminated from behind and beneith - look at the shadow of the mountain on the clouds.

Perspective cannot make the light literally come at you horizontally (or even from a point slightly below horizontal) if the Sun is 3100 miles above you.  The Sun itself is not only visible beneath the clouds, but the shadow of the mountain is being cast upwards, onto the clouds.  Perspective does not explain this. 

I really don't think it's worth debating with Tom.

A street light can project light onto you from directly above, when directly beneath it, or horizontally if the street light is off in the distance.

The sun is off in the distance during sunset, therefore it will project light horizontally.

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 01:22:09 PM

Quote from: Kendrick on July 31, 2012, 01:20:30 PM

And how does Rowbotham explain the rays of light from the sun travelling parallel and upwards from the earth-plane's surface - given that they are not reflected?

They are traveling parallel to the earth's surface due to perspective. I see no evidence in your image that they are traveling upwards.

The entire cloud layer is illuminated from behind and beneith - look at the shadow of the mountain on the clouds.

As this may be a very tall mountain and significantly above eye level of the observer, some of the sun's rays may be pointing upwards, the sun being a small ball on the horizon line.

Quote from: Kendrick on July 31, 2012, 01:28:24 PM

Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 31, 2012, 01:22:09 PM

Quote from: Kendrick on July 31, 2012, 01:20:30 PM

And how does Rowbotham explain the rays of light from the sun travelling parallel and upwards from the earth-plane's surface - given that they are not reflected?

They are traveling parallel to the earth's surface due to perspective. I see no evidence in your image that they are traveling upwards.

The entire cloud layer is illuminated from behind and beneith - look at the shadow of the mountain on the clouds.

To the user's perspective the mountain is above the level of the horizon, and therefore above the eye level sun. Hence, the sun can cast an upwards shadow

Nope.

The Transit of Venus disproves Rowbotham's perspective. 

Also - if Rowbotham was correct the sun would always be above the clouds and the mountain.

To explain that picture you would need to demonstrate how light can curve upwards away from the surface of the earth.

Quote from: ThinkingMan on July 31, 2012, 01:22:37 PM

Samuel Rowbotham thinks the ground goes up away from the observer?

Look into the distance and notice that the lands beneath you seem to rise to the level of your eye.

Appears to, yes, I'm asking if he says it actually DOES. But you won't answer that. So never mind.

Quote from: MrT on July 31, 2012, 01:26:23 PM

Perspective cannot make the light literally come at you horizontally (or even from a point slightly below horizontal) if the Sun is 3100 miles above you.  The Sun itself is not only visible beneath the clouds, but the shadow of the mountain is being cast upwards, onto the clouds.  Perspective does not explain this. 

I really don't think it's worth debating with Tom.

A street light can project light onto you from directly above, when directly beneath it, or horizontally if the street light is off in the distance.

The sun is off in the distance during sunset, therefore it will project light horizontally.

However, a street light cannot project your shadow up onto a cloud that was directly above your head, unless the light itself was slightly lower than your head.

Nope.

The Transit of Venus disproves Rowbotham's perspective. 

Also - if Rowbotham was correct the sun would always be above the clouds and the mountain.

To explain that picture you would need to demonstrate how light can curve upwards away from the surface of the earth.

From the perspective of the cloud and the mountain, if you were to go up there, the sun would be a small ball on the horizon line. Hence the rays would not be coming from above.