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i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt

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squevil

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i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« on: July 26, 2012, 01:47:09 PM »
this morning i was awake at sunrise. flying over me was a plane. the plane was white and the underside was all lit up orange from the sun. where i was it was still in shadow. now this can mean 1 of 2 things really;

the earth is round

the earth is flat but the sun was less than 30,000ft high

clouds have a pretty good excuse for being lit up, but the under side of a plane?
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Thork

Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2012, 01:52:40 PM »
Quote from: squevil on July 26, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
the plane was white and the underside was all lit up orange from the sun.


JET-2 have their livery as white with an orange bottom.

I'm glad I could help.
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EmperorZhark

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 02:26:18 PM »
Quote from: Thork on July 26, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
Quote from: squevil on July 26, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
the plane was white and the underside was all lit up orange from the sun.


JET-2 have their livery as white with an orange bottom.

I'm glad I could help.

After this kind of answer, no wonder you're most welcomed in the well-named lower forums.
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“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 04:20:34 PM »
Quote from: EmperorZhark on July 26, 2012, 02:26:18 PM
Quote from: Thork on July 26, 2012, 01:52:40 PM
Quote from: squevil on July 26, 2012, 01:47:09 PM
the plane was white and the underside was all lit up orange from the sun.


JET-2 have their livery as white with an orange bottom.

I'm glad I could help.

After this kind of answer, no wonder you're most welcomed in the well-named lower forums.

yeh i agree, but this was the first time i really saw something with my own eyes that really does go against FET. an explanation rather than a silly picture would of helped. i didnt have a camera with me but it definitely was not a plane like that. this was not paint this was a reflection.
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Pongo

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 04:31:26 PM »
People ask the same question about why clouds appear lit from underneath as well. It's the light from the sun bouncing off the earth and lighting the bottom of the object. This is an incredibly hard concept for round-earthers to grasp, so I've devised an experiment.

Get a mirror and a flashlight. Place the mirror in your lap and shine the flashlight down like the spotlight-sun. Take your free hand buzz it around while making airplane noises. You will see that the sun is shining down and reflecting up to light the underside of your hand/plane.  Now, the earth isn't as reflective as the mirror, but it doesn't have to be. The sun is more than powerful enough to bounce enough light back to the plane.
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Kendrick

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2012, 04:44:29 PM »
When the next pilot who starts an account here and posts - we should ask him how hard it is to fly around with the glare of the sun bouncing from the earth into his eyes all the time.  I imagine they have to wear goggles similar to these.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 04:51:38 PM by Kendrick »
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2012, 05:12:34 PM »
Quote from: Pongo on July 26, 2012, 04:31:26 PM
People ask the same question about why clouds appear lit from underneath as well. It's the light from the sun bouncing off the earth and lighting the bottom of the object. This is an incredibly hard concept for round-earthers to grasp, so I've devised an experiment.

Get a mirror and a flashlight. Place the mirror in your lap and shine the flashlight down like the spotlight-sun. Take your free hand buzz it around while making airplane noises. You will see that the sun is shining down and reflecting up to light the underside of your hand/plane.  Now, the earth isn't as reflective as the mirror, but it doesn't have to be. The sun is more than powerful enough to bounce enough light back to the plane.

the sun was not bright enough. i couldnt even see the sun yet. the sun does not do what you said.

next time the sun is over head move your hand about with the palm facing down and crouch and look at your hand. make plane noises if you wish. notice how its in the shadow and not lit up.

it must also be said that for FET to work people say that light does not travel indefinitely through the atmosphere because it is not perfectly clear. well the sun was far away and i couldnt see it, yet the light was able to travel through the atmosphere 3 times to reach my eyes? it came from the sun, bounced off the floor, then hit the plane and went to my eye.

no what i saw proved to me that the sun must of been below 30,000 feet.
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2012, 05:16:03 PM »
as this is related to clouds in some way (although i have a valid explanation for this with FET) maybe you can explain this to me?

the red line is the horizon, so in the top of the picture the sun is not visible as it is passed the horizon. just like it was yesterday.
the shortest past for the light is directly from the sun. so why cant i see the sun but i can see its reflecting off clouds or a plane?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 05:18:20 PM by squevil »
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Rushy

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2012, 06:44:04 PM »
Thork debunked this thread in a single post. You saw a white plane with a painted orange bottom.


[/thread]
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hoppy

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2012, 07:06:08 PM »
ITT Squevil is just having growing pains.


   BTW Kendrick nice pic, is that cheesus?
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Kendrick

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2012, 07:18:00 PM »
It is.

I caught him as he was getting off shift as a volunteer as a grief councellor at the childrens hospital.

For him its all about the children.
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2012, 07:39:44 PM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 26, 2012, 06:44:04 PM
Thork debunked this thread in a single post. You saw a white plane with a painted orange bottom.


[/thread]

you would like to think that, but that is not what i saw. the ice trail behind it also was orange. unless you have something useful to add dont bother saying anything at all.

nobody has yet to debunk the picture presented, not even in the post it came from.
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iwanttobelieve

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 05:54:17 AM »
reflection off water
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 06:08:57 AM »
not where i live, there is a river but the plane was orange for quite a while. also when im at work im next to the river and at about 6:30am the sun reflects off the river onto the ceiling, it isnt orange, looks nice though.

i dont even think the angle would of been right if it was the river.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 07:51:05 AM by squevil »
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ThinkingMan

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2012, 08:05:44 AM »
Someone is really trying to say that light is reflecting off of a generally dark surface, moving back up into the sky, and then reflecting off of another surface?

As in the dirty, grass, trees and whatever else are reflecting like a mirror? If the sun was that bright, we'd all be dead.
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Quote from: BoatswainsMate on August 24, 2012, 12:18:02 PM
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2012, 08:16:19 AM »
Yes, light is funny like that.  You can see things that are in the shade.  Even if that light is reflecting off of dirty, grass, trees, and whatever.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2012, 08:19:52 AM »
The answer is that due to perspective, when the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds and plane from the side. The back end of the cloud/plane is facing you, so it appears as if the plane/cloud is illuminated from the bottom.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 08:22:19 AM by Tom Bishop »
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ThinkingMan

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2012, 09:31:41 AM »
Quote from: jroa on July 27, 2012, 08:16:19 AM
Yes, light is funny like that.  You can see things that are in the shade.  Even if that light is reflecting off of dirty, grass, trees, and whatever.

Yes, but light reflecting off of the dirt doesn't hurt my eyes from a distance. If it is light colored dirt (sand perhaps), it might hurt up close. But it certainly doesn't reflect like a mirror so much that if i was IN that plane at 30,000 feet, it would look like someone had a giant mirror on earth. That's the kind of reflection you would need to get that effect on the bottom of a plane. Test it with a laser, they're generally WAY more intense than sunlight. Point the laser at the dirt, and see if it reflects up onto anything in a significant enough manner to cause a mirror-like glare.
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Quote from: BoatswainsMate on August 24, 2012, 12:18:02 PM
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.
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DDDDAts all folks

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 11:16:07 AM »
When I see planes flying at 30000 (ish)ft they're small dots with white puffy clouds behind them, there's no way I could see anything reflecting off the bottom of it.
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Kendrick

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 11:26:21 AM »
I performed my own experiments this morning -

I took a few squares of 60 grit sandpaper and placed them on the grass - then held a model metal plane various distances between 6" and 8' above it.

The sandpaper was untinted and the grit was its natural shades of brown and tan.

At no point during the experiment did I see any glare from the sun reflected onto the underside of the model plane - either over the sandpaper, or grass, or concrete.

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ThinkingMan

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 12:53:07 PM »
Quote from: Kendrick on July 27, 2012, 11:26:21 AM
I performed my own experiments this morning -

I took a few squares of 60 grit sandpaper and placed them on the grass - then held a model metal plane various distances between 6" and 8' above it.

The sandpaper was untinted and the grit was its natural shades of brown and tan.

At no point during the experiment did I see any glare from the sun reflected onto the underside of the model plane - either over the sandpaper, or grass, or concrete.

Now THAT is Zeteticism. Thank you Kendrick.
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Quote from: BoatswainsMate on August 24, 2012, 12:18:02 PM
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 02:27:07 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 27, 2012, 08:19:52 AM
The answer is that due to perspective, when the sun is setting it near the eye level of the observer, and therefore its rays are coming at you from the side. The sun's rays are also hitting clouds and plane from the side. The back end of the cloud/plane is facing you, so it appears as if the plane/cloud is illuminated from the bottom.



almost, but perspective does not make the sun parallel to me. it looks like it is but it would still be 3000 miles above. the whole of the underside was lit up and not just the point that was facing me. even the trail behind it was glowing.
sorry tom it would fool some but just because the sun looks like its touching the ground doesnt mean that it is at ground level.
i like the drawings though, thanks for the effort! i honestly appreciate that 
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Kendrick

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 02:54:42 PM »


This is Mount Rainer in Washington at sunset, I found this picture on the web - there are many pictures like it.

This is interesting because the shadows are crisp and defined - like a shadow would be if you were standing in front of a stagelight shining directly at you, and not reflected off of any medium.

It directly supports light travelling directly from the sun to the underside of the airplane in forum user Squevil's interpretation of his observations.

I dont see how this can happen based on the current accepted model for the earth-plane as there is no current explanation for photons travelling in a U shaped pattern down from the orbiting sun and upwards back through the atmolayer.
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hoppy

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 04:37:51 PM »
Quote from: Kendrick on July 27, 2012, 11:26:21 AM
I performed my own experiments this morning -

I took a few squares of 60 grit sandpaper and placed them on the grass - then held a model metal plane various distances between 6" and 8' above it.

The sandpaper was untinted and the grit was its natural shades of brown and tan.

At no point during the experiment did I see any glare from the sun reflected onto the underside of the model plane - either over the sandpaper, or grass, or concrete.
What was the temperature and humidity?
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Kendrick

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 04:50:46 PM »
84 degrees 21% humidity.
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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 05:05:45 PM »
i do support the fes but i really do think that this thread debunks fet using simple observations.
the light cannot bounce off the earth and off the cloud and to the observer if the atmosphere is too thick for the sun to be visible.
and light simply does not reflect off the earth so it can light up the underside of a plane in this manner

both ideas have been shown to be false. there nobody needs nasa to prove that the earth is round.

that my fellows is a solid ret win.
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garygreen

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 05:42:41 PM »
Excellent thread.  Would read again. 
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Quote from: Tom Bishop on July 27, 2012, 10:59:03 AM
Also, the people on your websites are specifically framing their claims, not to learn the truth of the matter, but because they want to "debunk" Apollo Hoax claims --
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BoatswainsMate

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2012, 03:39:34 AM »
I dare say, Squevil has just shed some light (pun intended) on how the sun works. Great job Squevil you are an observation stallion!
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29silhouette

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2012, 01:05:06 PM »
Took this picture about a month ago.  Nearest cloud undersides are catching the last bit of light and have an increased red hue versus the cloud bottoms further away, which are still orange-ish due to the sun being higher above the horizon from that vantage point.  Also through the gap in the middle of the picture and also towards the right are some clouds that are much higher, and therefore even less orange/red tinted (almost white compared to the others).

That would be a pretty extreme amount of direct red and orange light if the source is a reflection off forested hills and such.


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squevil

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Re: i witnessed 1st hand something that should cast doubt
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2012, 02:20:36 PM »
clouds can be explained in another way, quite simply really. however the plane in question was solid evidence. the plane being a solid object was really the point.
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