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More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho

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Lorddave

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM »
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
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Lorddave

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Tausami

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2012, 11:02:32 AM »
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.

That's why I'm in favor of improvised weapons. You can't shoot me if you're temporarily blinded.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 11:05:18 AM by Tausami »
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Lorddave

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2012, 11:07:10 AM »
Quote from: Tausami on July 20, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.

That's why I'm in favor of improvised weapons. You can't shoot me if you're temporarily blinded.
Yeah you can. It's called spray and pray.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Rushy

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2012, 11:09:30 AM »
Spray, pray, ricochet.
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2012, 11:15:27 AM »
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.
Of course these are close range weapons. How big is your house?

And likewise, unless you shoot and instantly kill the intruder, they would also be able to still shoot you as well. Basically your argument is that we should have guns cause the person that might break in could maybe have a gun. I'm sorry, but that's a weak argument. If gun control were better that intruder would possibly not have a gun.
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2012, 11:17:38 AM »
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 11:07:10 AM
Quote from: Tausami on July 20, 2012, 11:02:32 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.

That's why I'm in favor of improvised weapons. You can't shoot me if you're temporarily blinded.
Yeah you can. It's called spray and pray.

Yeah, Iraqi military members loved that tactic.  Some of the Taliban fighters actually aim, making them more of a threat, practiced on the Ivans i guess..
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EnigmaZV

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2012, 12:05:29 PM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 20, 2012, 08:14:15 AM
Quote from: EnigmaZV on July 20, 2012, 07:50:12 AM
When was the last time you've heard of someone walking into a crowded area and bludgeoning half a dozen people to death with a hammer? And then offing himself with it when he's done his rampage?

How is that relevant?

Quote from: Mr Pseudonym on July 20, 2012, 08:04:50 AM
To my knowledge that don't really make for good mass killers in a crowded area. Can you recall one who did something like this?

Why are you using this argument? Are you implying that without a gun, it is logically impossible to kill a large amount of people in a public place? It is the person that killed multiple people. They wanted to do it and went for the easiest way. You assume without the easiest way they wouldn't have done it at all, which is incorrect.

Then you should be able to find an example if it's incorrect.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2012, 12:09:06 PM »
All guns should be legalised and end this failed war on guns. Guns have been shown to LESS harmful than more hardcore weapons such as grenades. Guns aren't a gateway to other weapons either.
If it was legalised, the government could collect taxes on the guns while putting gangs and cartels out of buisness.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2012, 12:18:58 PM »
It is hard to say that even if a person had a concealed weapon, that this would not have gone down any differently. Like at the 2011 shooting of Gabby Giffords and 18 other people, there plenty of people who had gun on them with a legal a conceal and carry permit. Yet Jared Lee Loughner was tackled by bystanders when he was reloading, he wasn't shot. One of the people who tackled Loughner had a gun, but he made the split second calculation not to use his weapon. When there is chaos and people running everywhere and tear gas that you are choking on, it can be hard to discern who to shoot at.  Even if you knew who to shoot at, you could easily hit a person trying to escape the crowded theater. Not to mention that this guy was decked out a ballistic helmet, ballistic leggings, groin protecter, tactical gloves and gasmask.

So it isn't as simple as "if somebody had a gun on them, this would have ended differently". I honestly doubt it would have.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 12:32:45 PM by EnglshGentleman »
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EnigmaZV

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2012, 12:21:23 PM »
Quote from: Ichimaru Gin :] on July 20, 2012, 12:09:06 PM
All guns should be legalised and end this failed war on guns. Guns have been shown to LESS harmful than more hardcore weapons such as grenades. Guns aren't a gateway to other weapons either.
If it was legalised, the government could collect taxes on the guns while putting gangs and cartels out of buisness.

Your arguments are always so apt.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on February 27, 2009, 03:43:45 PM
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Rushy

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2012, 12:27:39 PM »
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Lorddave

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2012, 12:28:44 PM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 11:15:27 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:47:10 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
Quote from: Lorddave on July 20, 2012, 10:26:24 AM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 10:24:45 AM
The problem is definitely society and how disconnected people feel. This could just as easily have happened with a bomb. But I don't see why guns are necessary for people to feel safe, if someone breaks into your home there are plenty of usable weapons without resorting to firearms.
Not if the guy breaking in has a gun.
What? There's pepperspray which is incredibly painful and tazers which would render him immobile. If you only have a gun as well nothing is assured. He could easily be the one to shoot you first. Feeling safe is just a silly lie we all need, no one is truly safe.
Ummmm....
Those are all close range weapons. Like melds range.
A gun is not.

I can shoot a gun and kill you from several yards away. I can not pepper spray you from several yards away.
Of course these are close range weapons. How big is your house?
My apartment is 960 sq. ft.
But anything more than 5 feet is enough distance to render your weapons useless.

Quote
And likewise, unless you shoot and instantly kill the intruder, they would also be able to still shoot you as well. Basically your argument is that we should have guns cause the person that might break in could maybe have a gun. I'm sorry, but that's a weak argument. If gun control were better that intruder would possibly not have a gun.
Actually I'm saying that it doesn't matter.  Gun control doesn't actually change gun crimes. Releasing restrictions doesn't either.  Might as well give everyone the option because it makes it marginally more likely that you can defend yourself as well as prevent a few break ins from people who may not break in if they think you might have a gun.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
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EnigmaZV

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2012, 12:40:11 PM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 20, 2012, 12:27:39 PM
Quote from: EnigmaZV on July 20, 2012, 12:05:29 PM
Then you should be able to find an example if it's incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

I thought you were arguing that they wouldn't use the easier way. I think bombs are easier than guns to kill large groups of people. I believe I used the example of a hammer, and someone else an axe, but a knife or sword or bat or flail would also do.
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Quote from: Saddam Hussein on February 27, 2009, 03:43:45 PM
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Rushy

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2012, 01:10:36 PM »
Quote from: EnigmaZV on July 20, 2012, 12:40:11 PM
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 20, 2012, 12:27:39 PM
Quote from: EnigmaZV on July 20, 2012, 12:05:29 PM
Then you should be able to find an example if it's incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

I thought you were arguing that they wouldn't use the easier way. I think bombs are easier than guns to kill large groups of people. I believe I used the example of a hammer, and someone else an axe, but a knife or sword or bat or flail would also do.

Bombs are easier to kill people with but harder to create/obtain. The argument was that people who want to kill would still kill, regardless of gun control laws. As you can see, these people killed plenty of people in a regulated country. A very tiny regulated country, mind you.
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2012, 02:54:06 PM »
To be honest, getting shot is an extremely easy way to die considering other options. But that's beside the point. It's not really gun control that changes anything, it's all about society.
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Space Cowgirl

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2012, 05:27:07 PM »
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Wakka Wakka

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2012, 06:51:47 PM »
Is Thork arguing for stricter gun control policies?  And I agree with him? Time to change my views.
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Marcus Aurelius

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2012, 07:35:20 PM »
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 20, 2012, 01:10:36 PM
Bombs are easier to kill people with but harder to create/obtain.

I highly disagree.  Making an bomb from scratch isn't really that hard, in fact it's frighteningly easy.  Much of the material needed to make one can be legally obtained.
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Lorddave

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2012, 08:07:18 PM »
Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on July 20, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 20, 2012, 01:10:36 PM
Bombs are easier to kill people with but harder to create/obtain.

I highly disagree.  Making an bomb from scratch isn't really that hard, in fact it's frighteningly easy.  Much of the material needed to make one can be legally obtained.

Hell, just making a fire along the exits is enough to cause many deaths.
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Quote from: wise on May 26, 2023, 05:06:05 AM
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

I am a terrible person and I am a typical Blowhard Liberal for being wrong about Bom.
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Rushy

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2012, 08:26:57 PM »
Quote from: Marcus Aurelius on July 20, 2012, 07:35:20 PM
I highly disagree.  Making an bomb from scratch isn't really that hard, in fact it's frighteningly easy.  Much of the material needed to make one can be legally obtained.

Why would you say you disagree with me then agree with my argument? ???





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Son of Orospu

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM »
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #53 on: July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM »
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #54 on: July 20, 2012, 08:44:54 PM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.

Then, why are firearms an issue?
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2012, 09:31:04 PM »
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.

Then, why are firearms an issue?
Because people who own them shoot people... But people kill people all the time regardless soooooidunno. Guns aren't an issue to me.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2012, 09:38:06 PM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.

Then, why are firearms an issue?
Because people who own them shoot people... But people kill people all the time regardless soooooidunno. Guns aren't an issue to me.

Out of all of the people who own guns, less than 1% ever shoot anyone.
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rooster

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #57 on: July 20, 2012, 09:49:35 PM »
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.

Then, why are firearms an issue?
Because people who own them shoot people... But people kill people all the time regardless soooooidunno. Guns aren't an issue to me.

Out of all of the people who own guns, less than 1% ever shoot anyone.
I didn't mean it like that, just that sometimes people use guns to kill others. I don't believe they're necessary for murder or defense and only that there is a bigger problem than gun control.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not passionate one way or another (if anything I would be for stricter control) BUT I think both sides of the debate are inefficient. People will still kill others regardless, controlling guns would only be like taking a stick away from a violent monkey. That monkey is still angry and violent and will just find another way to harm... other monkeys... >_> The analogy is silly, but I think you get the idea.
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Sean

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2012, 09:51:26 PM »
Guns kill people and spoons make people fat. Discuss.
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Son of Orospu

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Re: More shootings in the US, gun control is under control tho
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2012, 09:57:19 PM »
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 09:49:35 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 09:38:06 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 09:31:04 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:44:54 PM
Quote from: rooster on July 20, 2012, 08:40:45 PM
Quote from: jroa on July 20, 2012, 08:30:22 PM
If you shoot and kill a person who is breaking into your home, there is an infinitely lesser chance of them ever posing a risk to another individual.  It only makes sense.
There are so many ways you can easily handle a home intruder; having a gun is pretty unnecessary.

Anyway, this has nothing to do with mass shootings. There are plenty of ways to kill people without guns and plenty of ways to stop people without using guns. People are only thinking about the result and not the cause of the problem so both sides of the debate are equally ineffectual.

Then, why are firearms an issue?
Because people who own them shoot people... But people kill people all the time regardless soooooidunno. Guns aren't an issue to me.

Out of all of the people who own guns, less than 1% ever shoot anyone.
I didn't mean it like that, just that sometimes people use guns to kill others. I don't believe they're necessary for murder or defense and only that there is a bigger problem than gun control.
To be absolutely clear, I'm not passionate one way or another (if anything I would be for stricter control) BUT I think both sides of the debate are inefficient. People will still kill others regardless, controlling guns would only be like taking a stick away from a violent monkey. That monkey is still angry and violent and will just find another way to harm... other monkeys... >_> The analogy is silly, but I think you get the idea.

I don't mean to offend you, but you are ignorant.  If I wanted to kill someone, I would not be stopped by gun laws. 
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