Zoos

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Beorn

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Re: Zoos
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2012, 03:33:39 PM »

What do you think of the educational part of the Zoo? I'm always afraid that without a Zoo people would care even less for the rare species that you would otherwise never see, causing them to go extinct even sooner.

He just said he might consider having them go extinct rather than be in a zoo.

Yes because they are treated badly. But I think they would be treated even worse if we wouldn't know about the wonders of nature.
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OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Zoos
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2012, 03:39:34 PM »

What do you think of the educational part of the Zoo? I'm always afraid that without a Zoo people would care even less for the rare species that you would otherwise never see, causing them to go extinct even sooner.

He just said he might consider having them go extinct rather than be in a zoo.

Yes because they are treated badly. But I think they would be treated even worse if we wouldn't know about the wonders of nature.

I agree that people need to be educated about them, i dont really see what that has to do with treatment of them.  Most animals in zoos are not things that the general public comes into contact with on regular basis.

I also think that he will argue that there are other means of learning about animals than the zoo, ones that don't involve permanently housing animals that don't need to be contained.

But I agree that zoos can have significant impacts on people in their communities, by making them aware of the situations that animals are currently finding themselves in.  I just dont know if he will change his mind.

Re: Zoos
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2012, 07:18:29 PM »
Can you give me an example of an animal in its natural environment not getting its needs met? Apart from the usual ailments and hungry periods that all wild animals experience. I'm just not sure what you mean by this.

My point is zoos cannot recreate natural environments, therefore captive animals can never have lives as fulfilled and enriched as they would be in the wild - starvation, untreated wounds and all. These things are natural and on some deep level they understand this. Captivity is very unnatural and is only acceptable in extreme circumstances, such as the respite park for the bears from the bile farms. I'm not even sure I really agree with the breeding programs... Sometimes I think there's so much animal cruelty in the world that we should let them go extinct. They won't know it's happening and we're only keeping them around for ourselves anyway, aren't we? For future generations to appreciate. I personally don't care if our children get to see these animals or not. They're not here for our enjoyment.

Well that escalated quickly...

Lol you want me to list the number of ways that an animal can not have its needs met?  That's highly dependent on the animal.  Could be that food source dried up, could be humans destroying the environment that the animal needs, could be a lack of space or breeding partners. 

And yes zoos can recreate environments for animals where they are perfectly happy.  But like i said earlier its highly dependent on the animal, and is not always possible.  im sorry you had a bad experience as a zoo keeper, but that does not change the harshness of life outside of zoos.  Ill reiterate that i dont think that zoos should be around solely for our own pleasure if they in anyway compromise the lives of their inhabitants.  If that means the zoo cant have elephants, or tigers, or what have you then that's the case.  But lots of other animals have much easier to reproduce environments, as they don't hunt, are much less intelligent, and don't need as much space.

I agree that zoos can do a lot of damage, but there are clear pluses in many cases for zoo animals.  But your posts have gotten more radical as time has gone on, now embracing letting species go extinct and being against breeding programs, often one of the most positively view portions of a zoo.

I didn't have a particularly bad experience working at the zoo. I've visited zoos in different countries and none of them have been satisfactory. San Diego zoo was one of the worst I've seen. I've had this view of zoos since I was a kid.

As for the harshness of life outside of zoos vs life in captivity... I don't think we will ever agree on this point. In cases where the animal is harmed due to human interference, then yes - it might sometimes be better off in a zoo. Cases such as extreme habitat destruction and animal cruelty are good examples. I was under the impression we were discussing the natural problems that animals face in the wild, not human-driven ones. In which case I still believe that animals have the right to fend for themselves, for good or for bad, while maintaining their freedom.

I know I have radical views when it comes to animals. It's just that I don't think about them in terms of how humans can benefit from them. I think about what really would be best for them. It doesn't seem likely that humans will end worldwide animal cruelty any time soon, does it? As I said... If the animals have no knowledge that they're going extinct, what is the harm in letting them fade away? I would really like an answer to that question. What is the harm to them? Breeding programs are great for boosting numbers, but if extinction is the best thing for these animals then breeding programs are only slowing down the inevitable.

Look, I'm not saying we should promote the extinction of animals. I originally said that I sometimes think it might be for the best, and that I wonder if breeding programs are really helping the issue. Instead of taking the "animals have a right to live" route, open your mind and think about what would really benefit them the most, considering what humans subject them to.

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rooster

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Re: Zoos
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2012, 09:42:01 PM »
Wait, you've had this negative idea of zoos since childhood and you still became a zookeeper? That's interesting.

Re: Zoos
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2012, 10:09:02 PM »
When I finished high school I had a certain career path in mind. The relevant qualification required me to work at a zoo while studying.