Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!

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Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« on: January 25, 2009, 11:20:29 AM »
Its my opinion that the science of geology is fundamentally flawed with regard to the theory of plate tectonics. Apparently, so the scientists tell us, all the Earth?s land was joined together at one time forming a single land mass called Pangaea. However currents deep within the Earth caused this landmass to break apart and ?float? around the globe like 'islands' (in more ways than one and as if the Earth itself knew exactly where the land was and where the sea was!) Perhaps when Wegener postulated the existence of Pangaea he was thinking of the lost island of Atlantis or even Thule! But what makes the theory even more laughable is that the convective currents deep within the Earth that cause the pieces of crust to float around like this are said to occur in solid rock. The moral of the story here is that warm rock rises and cold rock descends! But apparently this all happens very, very slowly. But what about conduction, how quickly does this happen compared with convection as a means of heat transfer? The whole thing is just mind boggling! But the Moon shows no sign of plate tectonics and neither apparently does Mars, if of course what NASA has said about this last planet is in fact genuine.

But it doesn?t end there, the same flawed thinking that lies behind plate tectonics can be found in the explanation of how volcanoes are formed. We are told that a volcano is supplied by a magma chamber some depth directly below where it lies and that when this chamber becomes full the volcano then erupts. But how did this chamber form within solid rock in the first place with all the trillions of tonnes of pressure directly above it or to put it slightly differently what caused the release of pressure allowing the solid rock to become liquid? Its an amazing coincidence surely that just about every single volcano I can think of across the globe happens to be sat directly above a major fault line. Surely it is this fault line which is causing the eruptions and not some weirdo magma chamber? During an earthquake the same amount of energy is released as during a major atomic explosion so presumably this same energy if focussed within a small area could melt a significant amount of rock. Of course when rock melts the water of crystallization is released in the form of steam and the pressure of the steam forces the lava to the surface. Hey presto, a volcanic eruption! Goodbye magma chambers! 

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 12:46:53 PM »
What the hell is wrong with plate tectonics?

The evidence that they exist is painfully obvious.

A huge amount of the earthquakes and volcanoes are on these fault lines. Do you think it's just a coincidence?



Also, in reference to pangea, look at how South America and Africa look like they fit together perfectly. I'd also like to point out that scientists have discovered that the same rock types exist on the coasts of many of the continents that used to be one.

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 01:09:39 PM »
gjalexander, I suggest you do a bit more reading on the subject. You've made several mistakes. Here are a couple of notable ones:

1) The mantle is not solid rock, it is a highly viscous liquid.
2) There is evidence of plate tectonics on Mars. Though the planet is now geologically dead, there was activity in the past. However, Io (moon of Jupiter) and Triton (moon of Neptune) are both geologically active right now.

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 01:16:03 PM »
So how do you explain fossils in unusual places, earthquakes, and the strange geographical features such as the Mid-Atlantic ridge and the San Andreas fault?

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grogberries

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 02:04:23 AM »
It is true that the leading cause of deaths is Plate Tectonics.
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Theearthisspherical1

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 07:39:41 AM »
It is true that the leading cause of deaths is Plate Tectonics.

It's up there with the polar ice caps

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John Davis

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 09:51:34 AM »
There are plates in a flat earth, they are just all on the inside regions.  When we get a map (whenever that is :P) I'm sure it will be very apparent. 
Quantum Ab Hoc

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 10:12:57 AM »
So, is the OP just going to post this and not return to support his points more?

I'd really like to hear where he is coming from.

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Robbyj

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 10:16:52 AM »
So, is the OP just going to post this and not return to support his points more?

I'd really like to hear where he is coming from.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26316.msg595194#msg595194
Why justify an illegitimate attack with a legitimate response?

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 10:38:08 AM »
It appears that you lot are the one's that need to do a bit more reading on the subject FE'ers.

For a start volcanic activity, earthquakes, folding etc. is not by defintiton dependant on plate tectonics as many of you have wrongly assumed. When the inner parts of a planet like the Earth cool the crust is bound to crease and crack but this does not mean to say that its crust must therefore be comprised of well defind plates as the plate tectonic theory suggests. Fossils in unusual places can be explained by folding and erosion. And geological activity in general does not therefore necessarily suggest the existence of plate tectonics.

Arcturus supposedly corrects my error by saying the Earth's mantle is liquid but look a little closer and you may find that at the pressures involved the mantle is below melting point and is almost exclusively solid. And besides according to the official theory volcanic eruptions only occur when the solid rock in the mantle is released of pressure and melts.

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 11:23:50 AM »
While we are on the subject of geology and some of its possible flawed theory, consider the following:

How does sand form? Officially, according to the USGS member I contacted, it is formed through the erosion of crystalline rock where the sand particles are the crystal grains of the rock. But if this is the case how come you get sandy beaches in areas where the rock is exclusively sedimentary (i.e. non-crystalline) and the rivers in the area have all flowed through sedimentary rock areas also? And why aren't weathered crystalline rocks rough like sandpaper but smooth to the touch instead? And further why at the base of cliffs of crystalline rock don't you get piles of sand?

But geologists aren't entirely dishonest as they have admitted to a mistake they have made in the past. Desert varnish is not caused by minerals percolating to the surface of the rock causing it to darken or redden but is instead caused by wind blown clay particles adherring to their surfaces. But why couldn't they ascertain this earlier by simply analysing the surfaces of the rock in the laboratory? Apparently they failed to do this properly........  :D

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 11:24:40 AM »
While we are on the subject of geology and some of its possible flawed theory, consider the following:

How does sand form? Officially, according to the USGS member I contacted, it is formed through the erosion of crystalline rock where the sand particles are the crystal grains of the rock. But if this is the case how come you get sandy beaches in areas where the rock is exclusively sedimentary (i.e. non-crystalline) and the rivers in the area have all flowed through sedimentary rock areas also? And why aren't weathered crystalline rocks rough like sandpaper but smooth to the touch instead? And further why at the base of cliffs of crystalline rock don't you get piles of sand?

But geologists aren't entirely dishonest as they have admitted to a mistake they have made in the past. Desert varnish is not caused by minerals percolating to the surface of the rock causing it to darken or redden but is instead caused by wind blown clay particles adherring to their surfaces. But why couldn't they ascertain this earlier by simply analysing the surfaces of the rock in the laboratory? Apparently they failed to do this properly........  :D

What causes earthquakes then?

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2009, 04:25:24 PM »
So, is the OP just going to post this and not return to support his points more?

I'd really like to hear where he is coming from.

http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=26316.msg595194#msg595194

Now it all makes sense, this dude is mental...

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cmdshft

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 09:13:49 AM »
Its my opinion that the science of geology is fundamentally flawed with regard to the theory of plate tectonics. Apparently, so the scientists tell us, all the Earth?s land was joined together at one time forming a single land mass called Pangaea. However currents deep within the Earth caused this landmass to break apart and ?float? around the globe like 'islands' (in more ways than one and as if the Earth itself knew exactly where the land was and where the sea was!) Perhaps when Wegener postulated the existence of Pangaea he was thinking of the lost island of Atlantis or even Thule! But what makes the theory even more laughable is that the convective currents deep within the Earth that cause the pieces of crust to float around like this are said to occur in solid rock. The moral of the story here is that warm rock rises and cold rock descends! But apparently this all happens very, very slowly. But what about conduction, how quickly does this happen compared with convection as a means of heat transfer? The whole thing is just mind boggling! But the Moon shows no sign of plate tectonics and neither apparently does Mars, if of course what NASA has said about this last planet is in fact genuine.

But it doesn?t end there, the same flawed thinking that lies behind plate tectonics can be found in the explanation of how volcanoes are formed. We are told that a volcano is supplied by a magma chamber some depth directly below where it lies and that when this chamber becomes full the volcano then erupts. But how did this chamber form within solid rock in the first place with all the trillions of tonnes of pressure directly above it or to put it slightly differently what caused the release of pressure allowing the solid rock to become liquid? Its an amazing coincidence surely that just about every single volcano I can think of across the globe happens to be sat directly above a major fault line. Surely it is this fault line which is causing the eruptions and not some weirdo magma chamber? During an earthquake the same amount of energy is released as during a major atomic explosion so presumably this same energy if focussed within a small area could melt a significant amount of rock. Of course when rock melts the water of crystallization is released in the form of steam and the pressure of the steam forces the lava to the surface. Hey presto, a volcanic eruption! Goodbye magma chambers! 


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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 05:49:59 AM »
Stop feeding the troll.

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markjo

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2009, 11:13:18 AM »
I read his explanation as to why the law of conservation of energy is wrong and something became abundantly clear.
http://www.webspawner.com/users/energylaw/
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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 09:25:01 AM »
Its my opinion that the science of geology is fundamentally flawed with regard to the theory of plate tectonics. Apparently, so the scientists tell us, all the Earth?s land was joined together at one time forming a single land mass called Pangaea. However currents deep within the Earth caused this landmass to break apart and ?float? around the globe like 'islands' (in more ways than one and as if the Earth itself knew exactly where the land was and where the sea was!) Perhaps when Wegener postulated the existence of Pangaea he was thinking of the lost island of Atlantis or even Thule! But what makes the theory even more laughable is that the convective currents deep within the Earth that cause the pieces of crust to float around like this are said to occur in solid rock. The moral of the story here is that warm rock rises and cold rock descends! But apparently this all happens very, very slowly. But what about conduction, how quickly does this happen compared with convection as a means of heat transfer? The whole thing is just mind boggling! But the Moon shows no sign of plate tectonics and neither apparently does Mars, if of course what NASA has said about this last planet is in fact genuine.

But it doesn?t end there, the same flawed thinking that lies behind plate tectonics can be found in the explanation of how volcanoes are formed. We are told that a volcano is supplied by a magma chamber some depth directly below where it lies and that when this chamber becomes full the volcano then erupts. But how did this chamber form within solid rock in the first place with all the trillions of tonnes of pressure directly above it or to put it slightly differently what caused the release of pressure allowing the solid rock to become liquid? Its an amazing coincidence surely that just about every single volcano I can think of across the globe happens to be sat directly above a major fault line. Surely it is this fault line which is causing the eruptions and not some weirdo magma chamber? During an earthquake the same amount of energy is released as during a major atomic explosion so presumably this same energy if focussed within a small area could melt a significant amount of rock. Of course when rock melts the water of crystallization is released in the form of steam and the pressure of the steam forces the lava to the surface. Hey presto, a volcanic eruption! Goodbye magma chambers! 

You have it all wrong.

For a start, it wasn't jsut the land that "floated" around.

Let me explain from the beginning:

There are two types of crust: Oceanic and Continental crusts. The Continental crust, bring made up of lighter rocks (less dense) are lighter than the more dense oceanic crust.

This means that the Continental Crusts are actually on top of the oceanic crusts. IT is not the continental crusts that are "floating" but the oceanic ones, the Continental crusts are just "passengers" on the rafts of oceanic crusts.

The Oceanic Crusts move around as new crust material forms where they are moving apart, and where they are moving together they either push one plate downwards (which then melts and re-emerges as lava from volcanoes or where the plates are moving apart).

The oceanic plates tend to be pushed under where there is continental crust on top (as oceanic crust + continental crust is heavier than just oceanic crust by its self). But because the Continental Crust is lighter it usually (but sometimes doesn't) end up still on top of the oceanic crusts. So the continents end up seeming to slide around on the surface, but still get buckled upwards into mountains (like in the Himalayas or the Andes). It will appear that the continents are "floating" around the surface of the Earth, but they are in fact, just riding around on the continental crusts.

The Oceanic Crusts crack when a hot up welling of mantle rises upwards and melts through it, then the convention currents form that up welling drag the oceanic crusts away to either side and thus force the crack to widen. This grows into a rift.

There is one in the Atlantic ocean and it is actually making the ocean wider. There is also one forming in Africa, it is called the Great Rift Valley, and it will eventually tear the continent of Africa into two pieces. They know this is happening because they have made very accurate measurements of the valley, and it is getting wider, they also know that there is a hot spot under there as there is a lot of volcanic activity in that area (without an associated plate boundary there).

Now, as the plates move around, and the oceanic crust subducts and forms, it will scrape the continental crusts into a single landmass occasionally (Pangea is not the only super continent that has formed in the history of the Earth). But once in this Super continent, the mass of the Continental crust and the Oceanic crust underneath pushes down and causes it to sink into the mantel a bit, this allows it hot spots to more easily melt it and allow the convection currents to tear it apart and form new continents. And so the cycle continues.

As for the magma being liquid, well the interior of the Earth is really hot. As the Earth formed due to the collisions of asteroids, this causes a lot of heat. The Heat in the centre of the Earth has no where to go, except outwards.

Also, unlike water, most material when it gets cold actually becomes more dense and sinks. This is occuring in the outer core of the Earth. Liquid iron (with a bit of nickel) is cooling as it releases its heat. This causes it to sink towards the centre as it is more dense. At the inner core this cool even further as it encounters the sold inner core, but as it does so it has to release what heat is still left keeping it liquid. This heats up the surrounding liquid iron which then becomes less dense and rises towards the outer edge of the outer core. Here is releases heat to the surrounding mantle which cause the iron to cool and sink back towards the inner core again, but it also heat up that part of the mantle and cause it to rise (this is the origin of the hot spots and the convention currents in the mantle that causes the tectonic plates to move - see how it all works together).

These hot mantle plumes can then melt the crust and form magma chambers which can then erupt into volcanoes.

Another way that enough heat can be generated is by friction. As one plate is pushed under another it causes friction, this friction causes heat, but as it has nowhere to go it builds up and causes crust to melt and form magma.

In fact, along subdution zones you will find strings of volcanoes that run parallel to it, but just to one side of the zone, a little way under the plate that is on top because the plate that is being pushed underneath is experiencing friction (as well as the hot mantle) and melting into magma. As this takes a while, the resulting volcanoes are not usually exactly on the subduction zone but a little ways into the overlapping plate.

And guess what, if you look at the subduction zones that do exist, we see exactly that.

The Moon is small enough to have lots it heat quickly and so would not have experienced any plate tectonics, also Mars is just big enough to have plate tectonics and ther eis indeed evidence of it, but being small, Mars would by now have lost enough heat to halt plate tectonics, and that is also what we see.

So the evidence for plate tectonics is actually there. It really is. The only problem is that you have a mistaken idea about what plate tectonics is. That is called a strawman argument and is a logical fallacy. If you actually learn about plate tectonics, it make a lot of sense, but you have to make sure you learn the actual science of plate tectonics, not a strawman version of them.
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MrKappa

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2009, 05:54:11 AM »
Plate tectonics itself is not fundamentally flawed.

Convection and Continental Drift might be...



Quote
And guess what, if you look at the subduction zones that do exist, we see exactly that.

Yes... Keep looking at those "sub-duction" zones and then draw some pretty lines over it to illustrate your theory as to how the plates are riding one over the other... Then ask yourself....

4.5 billion years + 200 million year old sea floor means the ocean floor has resurfaced 22 times in the earths history.

Where is all the subducted plate and why isn't it a huge blip on the seismic charts? How high are mountains? 2 miles maximum? They should be 20 miles high, folded over and buckled... obduction everywhere... it's practically nowhere.

Explain the Laramide Orogeny.... the only real landmass which falls outside that which is within the normal common characteristics of pangea and "other thoeries". The LaraMide Orogeny is impossible any way to you try to prove plate tectonics in it's entirety... whether it be plate which is less heavy and sub-ducts under the continental granite... or whether convective forces somehow suck the land under and then push it back up.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 06:00:41 AM by MrKappa »

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2009, 07:39:57 PM »
I read his explanation as to why the law of conservation of energy is wrong and something became abundantly clear.
http://www.webspawner.com/users/energylaw/
He's an idiot.
your right. that was a painful read. He completely forgot about the mass of the fuel and the fuels velocity. I could understand a junior high student making these mistakes but come on an adult who had taking even basic physics should not make these mistakes. And if he hasn't taken the classes He is an idiot for arguing about something he doesn't know about.
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Benocrates

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2009, 06:46:36 AM »
Its my opinion that the science of geology is fundamentally flawed with regard to the theory of plate tectonics. Apparently, so the scientists tell us, all the Earth?s land was joined together at one time forming a single land mass called Pangaea. However currents deep within the Earth caused this landmass to break apart and ?float? around the globe like 'islands' (in more ways than one and as if the Earth itself knew exactly where the land was and where the sea was!) Perhaps when Wegener postulated the existence of Pangaea he was thinking of the lost island of Atlantis or even Thule! But what makes the theory even more laughable is that the convective currents deep within the Earth that cause the pieces of crust to float around like this are said to occur in solid rock. The moral of the story here is that warm rock rises and cold rock descends! But apparently this all happens very, very slowly. But what about conduction, how quickly does this happen compared with convection as a means of heat transfer? The whole thing is just mind boggling! But the Moon shows no sign of plate tectonics and neither apparently does Mars, if of course what NASA has said about this last planet is in fact genuine.

But it doesn?t end there, the same flawed thinking that lies behind plate tectonics can be found in the explanation of how volcanoes are formed. We are told that a volcano is supplied by a magma chamber some depth directly below where it lies and that when this chamber becomes full the volcano then erupts. But how did this chamber form within solid rock in the first place with all the trillions of tonnes of pressure directly above it or to put it slightly differently what caused the release of pressure allowing the solid rock to become liquid? Its an amazing coincidence surely that just about every single volcano I can think of across the globe happens to be sat directly above a major fault line. Surely it is this fault line which is causing the eruptions and not some weirdo magma chamber? During an earthquake the same amount of energy is released as during a major atomic explosion so presumably this same energy if focussed within a small area could melt a significant amount of rock. Of course when rock melts the water of crystallization is released in the form of steam and the pressure of the steam forces the lava to the surface. Hey presto, a volcanic eruption! Goodbye magma chambers! 

You have it all wrong.

For a start, it wasn't jsut the land that "floated" around.

Let me explain from the beginning:

There are two types of crust: Oceanic and Continental crusts. The Continental crust, bring made up of lighter rocks (less dense) are lighter than the more dense oceanic crust.

This means that the Continental Crusts are actually on top of the oceanic crusts. IT is not the continental crusts that are "floating" but the oceanic ones, the Continental crusts are just "passengers" on the rafts of oceanic crusts.

The Oceanic Crusts move around as new crust material forms where they are moving apart, and where they are moving together they either push one plate downwards (which then melts and re-emerges as lava from volcanoes or where the plates are moving apart).

The oceanic plates tend to be pushed under where there is continental crust on top (as oceanic crust + continental crust is heavier than just oceanic crust by its self). But because the Continental Crust is lighter it usually (but sometimes doesn't) end up still on top of the oceanic crusts. So the continents end up seeming to slide around on the surface, but still get buckled upwards into mountains (like in the Himalayas or the Andes). It will appear that the continents are "floating" around the surface of the Earth, but they are in fact, just riding around on the continental crusts.

The Oceanic Crusts crack when a hot up welling of mantle rises upwards and melts through it, then the convention currents form that up welling drag the oceanic crusts away to either side and thus force the crack to widen. This grows into a rift.

There is one in the Atlantic ocean and it is actually making the ocean wider. There is also one forming in Africa, it is called the Great Rift Valley, and it will eventually tear the continent of Africa into two pieces. They know this is happening because they have made very accurate measurements of the valley, and it is getting wider, they also know that there is a hot spot under there as there is a lot of volcanic activity in that area (without an associated plate boundary there).

Now, as the plates move around, and the oceanic crust subducts and forms, it will scrape the continental crusts into a single landmass occasionally (Pangea is not the only super continent that has formed in the history of the Earth). But once in this Super continent, the mass of the Continental crust and the Oceanic crust underneath pushes down and causes it to sink into the mantel a bit, this allows it hot spots to more easily melt it and allow the convection currents to tear it apart and form new continents. And so the cycle continues.

As for the magma being liquid, well the interior of the Earth is really hot. As the Earth formed due to the collisions of asteroids, this causes a lot of heat. The Heat in the centre of the Earth has no where to go, except outwards.

Also, unlike water, most material when it gets cold actually becomes more dense and sinks. This is occuring in the outer core of the Earth. Liquid iron (with a bit of nickel) is cooling as it releases its heat. This causes it to sink towards the centre as it is more dense. At the inner core this cool even further as it encounters the sold inner core, but as it does so it has to release what heat is still left keeping it liquid. This heats up the surrounding liquid iron which then becomes less dense and rises towards the outer edge of the outer core. Here is releases heat to the surrounding mantle which cause the iron to cool and sink back towards the inner core again, but it also heat up that part of the mantle and cause it to rise (this is the origin of the hot spots and the convention currents in the mantle that causes the tectonic plates to move - see how it all works together).

These hot mantle plumes can then melt the crust and form magma chambers which can then erupt into volcanoes.

Another way that enough heat can be generated is by friction. As one plate is pushed under another it causes friction, this friction causes heat, but as it has nowhere to go it builds up and causes crust to melt and form magma.

In fact, along subdution zones you will find strings of volcanoes that run parallel to it, but just to one side of the zone, a little way under the plate that is on top because the plate that is being pushed underneath is experiencing friction (as well as the hot mantle) and melting into magma. As this takes a while, the resulting volcanoes are not usually exactly on the subduction zone but a little ways into the overlapping plate.

And guess what, if you look at the subduction zones that do exist, we see exactly that.

The Moon is small enough to have lots it heat quickly and so would not have experienced any plate tectonics, also Mars is just big enough to have plate tectonics and ther eis indeed evidence of it, but being small, Mars would by now have lost enough heat to halt plate tectonics, and that is also what we see.

So the evidence for plate tectonics is actually there. It really is. The only problem is that you have a mistaken idea about what plate tectonics is. That is called a strawman argument and is a logical fallacy. If you actually learn about plate tectonics, it make a lot of sense, but you have to make sure you learn the actual science of plate tectonics, not a strawman version of them.

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EvilToothpaste

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2009, 07:03:14 AM »
Plate Tectonics is shear rubbish! 

I win.

Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2012, 08:53:28 PM »
A great post by Edtharan.

I just want to add that the main driver of subduction is now thought to be gravity, not convection. When the cold, more dense oceanic crust starts to sink, the weight of it creates slab pull.

That is all.

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Beorn

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Re: Plate tectonics sheer rubbish!
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2012, 04:19:48 AM »
A great post by Edtharan.

I just want to add that the main driver of subduction is now thought to be gravity, not convection. When the cold, more dense oceanic crust starts to sink, the weight of it creates slab pull.

That is all.

Please don't necro threads on the serious forum.
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