flat earth religion

The more I've read this site, the more FET appears like a religion where all of the believers are apologists.  The relevant questions all FET's should answer is: Do you interpret the Bible literally?  How old do you believe the Earth is?

It's important because here is a group of people who have formed a belief who are attempting to use science to justify it.  That's not how science works.  With the scientific method you might form a hypothesis and then find evidence to support it but it has to be falsifiable.  FETers believe deeply in their claim without falsifiable evidence and change their hypothesis based on whatever "new" and generally flawed laws of physics and made up "law of sight" or other "laws".

The purpose answering the above questions would serve would be to find where one stands on what science really is.  Literal interpretations of the Bible invalidate the most basic laws of physics and what can be proven with science.  If you are a Bible literalist AND trying to prove your belief of FET with science then you've failed hypocritically.  I know that all FETers aren't religious or literalists, but I would guess most are.

If you aren't a Bible literalist or claim to be non-religious then you have a serious misunderstanding of the scientific method.  From my observations as a third party with no desire to change the views of one group or the other, I have to say the FET arguments:

a: only weakly support the view and appear to be "made up" science.
b: deflect the real substance of the debate by focusing on the wording of arguments or semantics.

As a "society" FET is more of a support group than a convincing body of activists.  Because it's not presented as a support group 90% of this website appears to be an elaborate troll where the most notable believers are anon operators.  That statement is not meant to be an insult but rather my observation.  Either way, it's chock full of entertaining posts and opens my imagination to all of the possibilities of what kind of person it takes to strongly believe (not just wonder or question whether) the Earth is flat.  My conclusions generally lead me to religion, especially based on the replies from believers.  The fact that they self identify as "believers" only strengthens my opinion.

The more I've read this site, the more FET appears like a religion where all of the believers are apologists.  The relevant questions all FET's should answer is: Do you interpret the Bible literally?  How old do you believe the Earth is?

It's important because here is a group of people who have formed a belief who are attempting to use science to justify it.  That's not how science works.  With the scientific method you might form a hypothesis and then find evidence to support it but it has to be falsifiable.  FETers believe deeply in their claim without falsifiable evidence and change their hypothesis based on whatever "new" and generally flawed laws of physics and made up "law of sight" or other "laws".

The purpose answering the above questions would serve would be to find where one stands on what science really is.  Literal interpretations of the Bible invalidate the most basic laws of physics and what can be proven with science.  If you are a Bible literalist AND trying to prove your belief of FET with science then you've failed hypocritically.  I know that all FETers aren't religious or literalists, but I would guess most are.

If you aren't a Bible literalist or claim to be non-religious then you have a serious misunderstanding of the scientific method.  From my observations as a third party with no desire to change the views of one group or the other, I have to say the FET arguments:

a: only weakly support the view and appear to be "made up" science.
b: deflect the real substance of the debate by focusing on the wording of arguments or semantics.

As a "society" FET is more of a support group than a convincing body of activists.  Because it's not presented as a support group 90% of this website appears to be an elaborate troll where the most notable believers are anon operators.  That statement is not meant to be an insult but rather my observation.  Either way, it's chock full of entertaining posts and opens my imagination to all of the possibilities of what kind of person it takes to strongly believe (not just wonder or question whether) the Earth is flat.  My conclusions generally lead me to religion, especially based on the replies from believers.  The fact that they self identify as "believers" only strengthens my opinion.

That's true. They are not apologists, they are followers of ideas of a dead man and this site is to remember him.

As a third party, as the flat earth believers are religious, does it mean that the round earth believers are nonreligious (referring to you)?

fatearf, welcome and thank you for your observations.  I do, however, disagree with your observations.

Most Flat Earthers are not religious literalists, but there are a few.  They are, however, the extreme minority.  The society is also not a body of activists.    People come here to ask us questions.  We answer them the best that we can.  We do not organize protests, lobby for changing the public school system, or even actively try to recruit.  We simply are skeptical about mainstream theories.

Stick around and join in on some of the discussions.  And let me know if I can help to answer any questions you might have.  Also, be sure to read the Wiki.

It's nice to smile to this life.

As if you say we started this site to annoy scentists and spread a s state of doubt.

Gotcha. It's a site of entertainment and check

My beliefs are secular in nature. I thought it would be obvious from my tone but I was mostly trying to distinguish literalism from religion although the second encompasses the first. I was not implying that anyone who is non religious would believe in so called RET, which I mentioned.

Happy Forever said:
"As a third party, as the flat earth believers are religious, does it mean that the round earth believers are nonreligious (referring to you)?"

No, I never implied absolutes in this line of thinking, only generalizations. In fact your question is answered in my post and you've added assumptions that I did not make, but I've read most of your recent posts so I'm not surprised by it at all.

How do you think the earth is?

90% I know who you are. 


Take care.

It's nice to smile to this life.

As if you say we started this site to annoy scentists and spread a s state of doubt.

Gotcha. It's a site of entertainment and check

You like to add words and meaning to people's posts that otherwise do not exist.  Thank you for your profound contributions to this thread, Happy.  In case you missed it, that is sarcasm.

fatearf, welcome and thank you for your observations.  I do, however, disagree with your observations.

Thank you jroa, and you're right, it's hardly an activist site.  Then again, conspiracy theorists tend not to be particularly active outside their own circles. The most basic complaints I've read about the origins of "RET" are that space exploration is a sham. 

I remember that was the real basis of this website 10 or so years ago. If a space travel conspiracy is the basis for "FET" what is the basis for space travel being a sham?  The originator of the site used to observe that the space shuttle was fake. Why do people here argue about "bendy light" and "laws of sight" (how can there even be a law of sight when most believers here talk about what our brains perceive as what we see is wrong) when the real issue is the space program and space exploration.

I disagree that the space program is the main issue for the FET.  It is used often as a rebuttal against FET, but for FE'rs, it is really not an issue.  Quite simply, Flat Earthers tend to believe that a portion of the information we are told about the space program is falsified.  And, we are not alone in these beliefs.  Evidence is posted all over the internet from people who believe the same way.  I will not bore you with links, as I am sure that you have already seen this for yourself.

Bendy light and the other stuff you mentioned are just theories that try to explain phenomena that people observe.  The theories could be right, they could be wrong, or they could be somewhere in between.  The point is that we do not just settle for the information that is spoon fed to us.  We look at all ideas, alternative or mainstream, and try to decide for ourselves which ones seem to be the most correct.  Some of the information you were taught in school may be correct, some of it may be wrong.  Here, you get the opportunity to discuss and debate those ideas and come to your own conclusions.  This is the reason that there is no single flat Earth theory.  Everyone has their own ideas and we respect everyone's individuality. 

The point is that we do not just settle for the information that is spoon fed to us.  We look at all ideas, alternative or mainstream, and try to decide for ourselves which ones seem to be the most correct.  Some of the information you were taught in school may be correct, some of it may be wrong. 

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

It just too bad it must all be so ambiguous. The site still reads like a FET religion/support group or anon prank, although it probably isn't either.  To say the least the site demonstrates that there will never be a full consensus on what "truth" is. If anything the concept of "truth" and God are both human creations. Maybe the real threads that tie the Universe together will remain beyond our perception until we have evolved further.

I'd like to redirect the thread though and ask if anyone would admit to correlating their belief of FET with a literal interpretation of the Bible. I won't push it really, because I can see why some would be guarded on the subject. Then again, if nobody does, I'll just have to keep reading around (not that i would stop either way) to come up with more theories about what causes such similar people in the modern information age to come up with vastly different perceptions of reality.

If anything it feels especially relevant given the current political environment we live in around the world, not just my home in the USA.

Quote from: jroa on July 16, 2012, 10:47:02 AM

The point is that we do not just settle for the information that is spoon fed to us.  We look at all ideas, alternative or mainstream, and try to decide for ourselves which ones seem to be the most correct.  Some of the information you were taught in school may be correct, some of it may be wrong. 

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

I would have to agree there. It does appear that some feel that the rest of us just believe all things we are told. Whether that perception is true is irrelevant to me because I know there is a lot of misinformation and real conspiracies out in the world that have a direct impact on my life and society. I would rather know the truth about conspiracies to rig the Libor, or to create liquidity out of credit and what banks knew about the CDOs and CDSs they were creating.

There are real answers to be found investigating those if we would only direct our energy to find them, to elect the officials with the guts to investigate them. This whole debate is like a comforting distraction to the real, difficult and meaningful debate on solving real world problems. I am active on those discussin boards. As I said before, this site is pure entertainment to me.

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 11:36:13 AM

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

I would have to agree there. It does appear that some feel that the rest of us just believe all things we are told.

Indeed, all people who believe the Earth is round simply believe what they are told. I'm glad you could both see the flaws in your erroneous judgements.

Quote from: fatearf on July 16, 2012, 12:08:53 PM

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 11:36:13 AM

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

I would have to agree there. It does appear that some feel that the rest of us just believe all things we are told.

Indeed, all people who believe the Earth is round simply believe what they are told. I'm glad you could both see the flaws in your erroneous judgements.

Are you not simply believing what you are told Rushy? Seems like you are.

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 16, 2012, 12:33:19 PM

Quote from: fatearf on July 16, 2012, 12:08:53 PM

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 11:36:13 AM

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

I would have to agree there. It does appear that some feel that the rest of us just believe all things we are told.

Indeed, all people who believe the Earth is round simply believe what they are told. I'm glad you could both see the flaws in your erroneous judgements.

Are you not simply believing what you are told Rushy? Seems like you are.

I have had multiple people tell me the Earth is round. Therefore, your claim has been subdued.

Quote from: BoatswainsMate on July 16, 2012, 12:37:15 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 16, 2012, 12:33:19 PM

Quote from: fatearf on July 16, 2012, 12:08:53 PM

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 11:36:13 AM

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

I would have to agree there. It does appear that some feel that the rest of us just believe all things we are told.

Indeed, all people who believe the Earth is round simply believe what they are told. I'm glad you could both see the flaws in your erroneous judgements.

Are you not simply believing what you are told Rushy? Seems like you are.

I have had multiple people tell me the Earth is round. Therefore, your claim has been subdued.

I have had multiple people tell me there Earth is flat. Therefore, your claim has been put into a rear naked choke and tapped out, winner by submission Boats!

TFES is no more a religion than PETA is.  Just because people cast doubt on a theory, does not mean they are a religion. This is crazy. 

I have had multiple people tell me there Earth is flat. Therefore, your claim has been put into a rear naked choke and tapped out, winner by submission Boats!

You do not believe the Earth is round.

Quote from: BoatswainsMate on July 16, 2012, 01:07:50 PM

I have had multiple people tell me there Earth is flat. Therefore, your claim has been put into a rear naked choke and tapped out, winner by submission Boats!

You do not believe the Earth is round.

I am a humble BM2 in the coast guard. I believe in mermaids and the flying dutchman. I even have the permissions of King Neptune to sail his sea's.

By the way, greetings from the ocean. I am on watch, bored as any normal patrol would go. Can;t tell you where I am though 

you are not flying anytime soon right Rushy? Or you are not a pilot? just curious.

I love this notion of self importance that FEers give themselves by suggesting that they're the only ones who are ever skeptical of what they're taught.

Quite simply, Flat Earthers tend to believe that a portion of the information we are told about the space program is falsified.  And, we are not alone in these beliefs.  Evidence is posted all over the internet from people who believe the same way.

 

Indeed, other people believe in fake NASA.  I don't see the relevance.

My point is that modern professional scientists do not simply "believe what they are told."  That doesn't even make sense.  Science education is centered around teaching students the process of arriving at the current paradigm.  Modern science makes testable, falsifiable predictions that can be verified and reproduced by anyone else.  It's the opposite of a lack of skepticism.  It means that the current paradigm has withstood the combined skepticism of thousands and thousands of individual scientists.

FET has survived the combined skepticism of what seems to be a few dozen people, half of whom are trolls.

They don't seem to be able to explain what, exactly, their problem is with science, either.  What I've heard most often is that hypotheses poison the results of experiments because scientists want their hypotheses to be correct.

I've asked what prevents zeteticists from doing the same thing.  It's quite possible that a zeteticist will start to believe that the world works a certain way, and this could just as easily influence how they interpret their results.

Unlike scientists, though, their knowledge isn't constructed on hypotheses that can be falsified in reproducible experiments.  If I suspect that another scientist is fudging his experiments to favor some hypothesis he's fond of, I can conduct the experiments myself and see if I get different results.  There's no system like that in zetetics.

And so it is that we have this ridiculous freak show of flat earth ideas on this site and no consensus.

My point is that modern professional scientists do not simply "believe what they are told."  ...  It means that the current paradigm has withstood the combined skepticism of thousands and thousands of individual scientists.

Do you ever wonder why dissenting opinion is drowned out by Scientific Orthodoxy? It survives dissent by burying it.

I've asked what prevents zeteticists from doing the same thing.  It's quite possible that a zeteticist will start to believe that the world works a certain way, and this could just as easily influence how they interpret their results.

It is certainly possible to arrive at different conclusions based on a priori assumptions. That is true in any philosophy, including your modern "scientific method". The value in zeteticism is in trying to minimize our assumptions.

  If I suspect that another scientist is fudging his experiments to favor some hypothesis he's fond of, I can conduct the experiments myself and see if I get different results.  There's no system like that in zetetics.

On the contrary, this is the heart of zeteticism.

And so it is that we have this ridiculous freak show of flat earth ideas on this site and no consensus.

Consensus is the death of growth.

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 06:21:57 PM

My point is that modern professional scientists do not simply "believe what they are told."  ...  It means that the current paradigm has withstood the combined skepticism of thousands and thousands of individual scientists.

Do you ever wonder why dissenting opinion is drowned out by Scientific Orthodoxy? It survives dissent by burying it.

Come now, over the years, the "scientific orthodoxy" has been turned on its head more times than I can count.

It is certainly possible to arrive at different conclusions based on a priori assumptions. That is true in any philosophy, including your modern "scientific method". The value in zeteticism is in trying to minimize our assumptions.

I don't see any evidence of minimizing assumptions, considering that most zetetics here assume there's a worldwide conspiracy to hide the shape of the earth.

On the contrary, this is the heart of zeteticism.

Not that I've observed in practice here.  I should also note that zeteticism is poorly defined.  Why I even recall Tom Bishop and Lord Wilmore having an argument about it a couple weeks ago.

Consensus is the death of growth.

Really?  I'm not sure how you can ever grow in any meaningful way if people don't ever agree on some things. 

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 16, 2012, 03:21:52 PM

Quote from: BoatswainsMate on July 16, 2012, 01:07:50 PM

I have had multiple people tell me there Earth is flat. Therefore, your claim has been put into a rear naked choke and tapped out, winner by submission Boats!

You do not believe the Earth is round.

I am a humble BM2 in the coast guard. I believe in mermaids and the flying dutchman. I even have the permissions of King Neptune to sail his sea's.

By the way, greetings from the ocean. I am on watch, bored as any normal patrol would go. Can;t tell you where I am though 

you are not flying anytime soon right Rushy? Or you are not a pilot? just curious.

Yes, everyone in the Air Force is a pilot.

Quote from: garygreen on July 16, 2012, 06:21:57 PM

My point is that modern professional scientists do not simply "believe what they are told."  ...  It means that the current paradigm has withstood the combined skepticism of thousands and thousands of individual scientists.

Do you ever wonder why dissenting opinion is drowned out by Scientific Orthodoxy? It survives dissent by burying it.

It isn't.  The only thing drowning out your particular opinion is the vast body of observations that directly contradict it.  FET is not being buried.  It's uninteresting.  It reveals no anomalies in the status quo, and the only testable predictions it makes defy common experience.

Quote from: BoatswainsMate on July 16, 2012, 04:17:36 PM

Quote from: Irushwithscvs on July 16, 2012, 03:21:52 PM

Quote from: BoatswainsMate on July 16, 2012, 01:07:50 PM

I have had multiple people tell me there Earth is flat. Therefore, your claim has been put into a rear naked choke and tapped out, winner by submission Boats!

You do not believe the Earth is round.

I am a humble BM2 in the coast guard. I believe in mermaids and the flying dutchman. I even have the permissions of King Neptune to sail his sea's.

By the way, greetings from the ocean. I am on watch, bored as any normal patrol would go. Can;t tell you where I am though 

you are not flying anytime soon right Rushy? Or you are not a pilot? just curious.

Yes, everyone in the Air Force is a pilot.

 
I am taking that as sarcasm.