Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« on: June 22, 2012, 08:38:53 PM »
This thread is about motivation behind policies.

I consider corporations to have money making "agendas", and republicans seem to more heavily favor corporate interests. For instance Reaganomics is the process of giving money to the rich for the "trickle down" effect. Not having government restraints on monopolies favors corporations who can often abuse capitalism and drive their competition out of business to create monopolies.

I associate Liberalism with the protections of the non-elites. Things like welfare or universal healthcare are designed to protect the little guy using the rest of us as safety nets. Obamacare widened access to medical treatment. This is like treating medicare care as an inalienable right instead of a privilege. Now I've heard objections to some of these programs because they can be susceptible to abuse.

But certainly the percentage of democrats who support those programs are much larger than the base of people who benefit from them, and that is larger still than the percentage of people who abuse the system.

In other words:
There are more democrats than there are people taking advantage of democratic programs.
Democrats - crackheads abusing welfare = Democrats who advocate helping others.
Ergo, the motivation has to be honorable when you tax yourself to protect the less fortunate.

Anyways, by design, liberal monetary policies seem more caring towards other people, and republican monetary policies seems to favor corporate interests.

Both examples and counter-examples are welcome (I acknowledge corporate interests and lobbying for both parties, just to very different degrees). However, I'm not looking at social issues like abortion. Those come down to philosophical disagreements ...and pro-lifers ALSO have decent caring motivation for their position, even if I consider them misguided. ;)

...In the end, I'm just curious what the "leftist agenda" would be since 'helping the individual' isn't an evil motivation.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 08:46:01 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 08:40:17 PM »
Also, I would not consider it off topic to discuss whether or not liberals are 'more caring for others', than conservatives.
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Vindictus

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 10:33:22 PM »
This reminds me of those results from that test that measured the responses from people that were 'liberal' leaning and 'conservative' leaning. I can't find it now on my phone.

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Lorddave

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 10:53:21 PM »
The liberal adgenda is to give politicians ultimate power over our lives and to destroy traditional values.
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Thork

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 12:02:29 AM »
Quote from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html
The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett.
 
He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote".
 
As a result, the public argument for immigration concentrated instead on the economic benefits and need for more migrants.
 
Critics said the revelations showed a "conspiracy" within Government to impose mass immigration for "cynical" political reasons.
 
Mr Neather was a speech writer who worked in Downing Street for Tony Blair and in the Home Office for Jack Straw and David Blunkett, in the early 2000s.
The leftists opened up the doors as political one-upmanship and in order to make more ready made voters. All those immigrants are now pre-deposed to vote labour. The party that let them in and will let more of their families in.
That's the leftist agenda. Getting into power and shouting down any criticism of policy with cries of "racism". The leftists are the dangerous and radical party in most Western world countries because they don't have the interest of the people living there at heart and their policies are not up for debate.

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Vindictus

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 12:34:34 AM »
New World Order and such.

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 12:47:35 AM »
The leftists opened up the doors as political one-upmanship and in order to make more ready made voters. All those immigrants are now pre-deposed to vote labour. The party that let them in and will let more of their families in.
That's the leftist agenda. Getting into power and shouting down any criticism of policy with cries of "racism". The leftists are the dangerous and radical party in most Western world countries because they don't have the interest of the people living there at heart and their policies are not up for debate.
Odd, all the leftists I know are talking about bailing America out of its failing economy and giving the everyman a set of bootstraps to pull himself up by -- giving every human the same rights (not giving underdogs better rights -- giving them out equally. Like the right not to be raped, or the right for law enforcement to stop asking you if you're sure you're not just a slut if it happens anyway), holding corporations accountable for careless spending or malpractice that has directly impacted customers, and creating a self-sustaining society. That all seems pretty damn local. But when they bring their issues up, the right shuts them down with circular religious reasoning or cries of "Why are you punishing success?!"

Here's a thought: maybe both sides demonize each other, and there'd be a lot less butthurt to go around if we'd cut that shit out and just talk policy.

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Rushy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 01:01:47 AM »
What does it really matter? All politicians are rich liars who clawed their way to the top and each one tries to tell you otherwise. No matter who you vote for, you're going to get the same general thing, at least in the U.S.

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Thork

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 01:12:33 AM »
And how are the leftists going to bail America out? That's right, they are going to try to attract more immigrants. Nice ponzi scheme. The dream act should help.

Leftists will tell you that only the good and socially concious vote for them That its evil, racist, wrong to make a stand.
Also I don't think the right are advocating rape. I mean just a hunch, but I doubt that's on the manifesto.

Here in the UK we already have record unemployment. We are about to get a million Greeks looking for work. How the hell is that helping? It helps the greeks sure. But its just going to put a million more British people out of work. Shortly after the Spanish are going to have to leave home to find work. Where will they go? All these countries have problems, but we can't help the whole world. We are just a tiny island nation. However if you suggest closing the doors that's racist. That's the leftist agenda.

What does it really matter? All politicians are rich liars who clawed their way to the top and each one tries to tell you otherwise. No matter who you vote for, you're going to get the same general thing, at least in the U.S.
As the great David Icke once said "The problem with democracy. It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always wins."

Different puppet, same hand.

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 12:36:08 PM »
And how are the leftists going to bail America out? That's right, they are going to try to attract more immigrants. Nice ponzi scheme. The dream act should help.
lolno? The plans of action I generally see are 'Tax the rich as much as we used to during WWII.' You can't keep telling us the well is dry when people are recreating Six Flags: Hurricane Harbor in their back yards. It's basic water cycle: if the water doesn't evaporate and spread evenly over the field, there will be a drought. Trickle-down economics are bullshit because money naturally trickles upward, but when you've got people latching onto the steam, there's a problem. Lower- and middle-class citizens recycle all their money, put it all back into circulation; the top-tiers keep a vat of fetid water. That doesn't work.

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Leftists will tell you that only the good and socially concious vote for them That its evil, racist, wrong to make a stand.
Either the lefties over there are way different from ours, or you're completely misunderstanding their motivations. Given the difference in political climate between here and there, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but in that case that means 'the' leftist agenda doesn't exist, because there's a different kind of leftist for every day of the week.

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Also I don't think the right are advocating rape. I mean just a hunch, but I doubt that's on the manifesto.
Huh, guess that's just here in America. My bad.

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Here in the UK we already have record unemployment. We are about to get a million Greeks looking for work. How the hell is that helping? It helps the greeks sure. But its just going to put a million more British people out of work. Shortly after the Spanish are going to have to leave home to find work. Where will they go? All these countries have problems, but we can't help the whole world. We are just a tiny island nation. However if you suggest closing the doors that's racist. That's the leftist agenda.
There's nothing racist about it, I agree. Even if you wanted to help everybody, you'd have to help yourself too. If you give away all your food, you'll be too malnourished and rickety to fight 'the bad guys.' So I'm with you on this, and honestly your country sounds really screwed up, dude .-.

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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 03:43:11 PM »
Everything Thork has said in this thread is 100% true. As a leftist, the latest copy of The Manifesto (You have to redeem 200 Guardian vouchers to apply for it) expressely wished the end of the UK so that we can create The Kombined States of Europe. After that, we exterminate the white race through homosexuals and abortions before putting a lesbian-Asian-atheist Muslim in charge of the entire KSE.


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Thork

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 04:04:23 PM »
I knew it! I'm on to you douchebags! >o<

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General Disarray

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 04:19:22 PM »
I hate white people, I want to murder the rich and give all their money to the homeless, and I think hard work and an honest day's pay for an honest day's work should be outlawed. We should immediately surrender to the Taliban and pass laws ordering all Bibles burned and abortions and gay marriage mandatory.
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Lorddave

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2012, 04:45:49 PM »
Stupid Muslim Athiests. Those guys bitch about how hard life is then blow themselves up for no reason!
You have been ignored for common interest of mankind.

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Rushy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2012, 05:50:31 PM »
Stupid Muslim Athiests. Those guys bitch about how hard life is then blow themselves up for no reason!

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/07/the-case-for-calling-them-nitwits/8130/

Quote from: The Atlantic
Nowhere is the gap between sinister stereotype and ridiculous reality more apparent than in Afghanistan, where it’s fair to say that the Taliban employ the world’s worst suicide bombers: one in two manages to kill only himself. And this success rate hasn’t improved at all in the five years they’ve been using suicide bombers, despite the experience of hundreds of attacks—or attempted attacks. In Afghanistan, as in many cultures, a manly embrace is a time-honored tradition for warriors before they go off to face death. Thus, many suicide bombers never even make it out of their training camp or safe house, as the pressure from these group hugs triggers the explosives in suicide vests. According to several sources at the United Nations, as many as six would-be suicide bombers died last July after one such embrace in Paktika.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2012, 07:33:50 PM »
I would propose that three major functions of government are valued differently when it comes to right vs left.

The right values freedom above all else. Security is important and equality is somewhat important,only in terms of equal opprtunity and no discrimination.

The left values equality above the other two. Security is important (and different flavors of security compared to the right) while freedom is somewhat important.

The left's agenda is much more sinister than the right. Human beings are not equal and never will be. Beyond basic rights and discrimination, people don't deserve and should not be viewed as equal. There are hard workers, brilliant innovators, mean spirited bullies, drug addicts, efficient labor workers...the spectra is too large. You mentioned liberal ideals are more caring but I disagree. I would argue nothing is further from caring by equating individuals that are clearly not equal. Your last sentence of "protecting the invididual" cannot even be seriously considered because there is no individual for liberal thinking.
Everything is aimed at forcing people to become more equal and stuck on a level playing field while the only thing allowed to grow in power is the government. Dependency grows while freedom from the government diminishes. I will always argue freedom is more important than equality and thus in my view, the leftist agenda is always geared towards a more controlling government by forcing people to become more equal than they actually are.
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General Disarray

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2012, 07:40:37 PM »
The right values freedom above all else

No they don't. If that was true, we wouldn't have drug laws, or Homeland Security.

The left values equality of opportunity, that everyone is given the same set of rules to play by.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2012, 07:48:38 PM »
The right values freedom above all else

No they don't. If that was true, we wouldn't have drug laws, or Homeland Security.

The left values equality of opportunity, that everyone is given the same set of rules to play by.
Yes, they do. Just because members of the GOP say something or act a certain way doesn't mean they exemplify what is consdered truly 'right' or conservative. My argument is based on the philosophies of right vs left. Not political party vs political party.
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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2012, 11:20:28 PM »
I would argue nothing is further from caring by equating individuals that are clearly not equal.
There is a difference between 'equal' and 'the same'.

Person A might be smart diligent and diplomatic. Person B might be a dumb stubborn guy in a sweater. Which of the two should be given the rights to free speech, petition, assembly, religion, etc? Hint: You're allowed to say both.

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I will always argue freedom is more important than equality and thus in my view, the leftist agenda is always geared towards a more controlling government by forcing people to become more equal than they actually are.
Billionaires do not work hundreds of thousands to millions of times harder than middle-class to lower-class citizens. America's 1% doesn't do more labor than the other 99%.

Personality, talents, work ethic, etc. cannot account for this remarkable chasm of America's wealth distribution.

The right values freedom above all else

No they don't. If that was true, we wouldn't have drug laws, or Homeland Security.

The left values equality of opportunity, that everyone is given the same set of rules to play by.
Yes, they do. Just because members of the GOP say something or act a certain way doesn't mean they exemplify what is consdered truly 'right' or conservative. My argument is based on the philosophies of right vs left. Not political party vs political party.

Freedom for who? For instance, hands-off government allows monopolization, which [1.] favors corporations while [2.] stifling existing and potential competition which [3.] lets them charge citizens much higher amounts of money for their product.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 03:56:49 AM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 01:07:25 AM »
The left's agenda is much more sinister than the right. Human beings are not equal and never will be. Beyond basic rights and discrimination, people don't deserve and should not be viewed as equal. There are hard workers, brilliant innovators, mean spirited bullies, drug addicts, efficient labor workers...the spectra is too large. You mentioned liberal ideals are more caring but I disagree. I would argue nothing is further from caring by equating individuals that are clearly not equal. Your last sentence of "protecting the invididual" cannot even be seriously considered because there is no individual for liberal thinking.
You misunderstand. People who work harder do more, so they get more, and this is something respected and supported by any of the sane liberals I know. But all men are created equal -- all the different categories you listed are something a person grows into. Liberal talk of equality just means that brilliant kids shouldn't be held back by broken societies, that hard-working young 20somethings shouldn't be barred from pursuing their dream by an economy with no room for them. We all deserve the chance to become millionaires, but our generation isn't as fertile as the last, and even the greatest acts of financial superheroism won't turn this dry soil, because it's not in our hands.

At the same time, we need to be reminded that every worker matters. Capitalism demands the high jobs and the low, so this disdainful 'untouchable' mentality, where we pay them piss as 'punishment,' needs to go. A doctor's an awesome person, but if we were all perfect students and all became doctors, where would we get our plumbers? Our mailmen? The people working at Starbucks who serve us the coffee that gets us in the zone for our operations in the first place?

As in any ecosystem, there is a connection between the high-rollers and the low. Lower-class citizens keep a healthy flow of cash in the community, recycling paycheck after paycheck with the occasional, healthy savings, like blood rushing to muscles. However, the rich have been saving more like a brain hemorrhage as of late, convinced that they need every penny. When you can't for the life of you spend even one million dollars consistently, why do you need a billion? It sounds like the next logical step up, like one leads to ten, but it's an entire goddamn order of magnitude.

Money-hoarders don't understand that, and so they impoverish their homeland -- after all, what money can your country spend when it's all in private coffers? The media barks on and on about the 'financial crisis' while five cross-streets away, people are eating gold flakes and fucking diamonds in their food. I'm not even kidding, google it. While they roll around in their financial (but not necessarily physical) obesity, the 30k per year 'middle class' is trapped by dead-end jobs, unemployment no matter how hard they fight, and hilariously massive student loans gained from doing the 'smart' thing and going to college like all the rich people have been telling them to do from the beginning!

How is that freedom? By letting the rich be slaves to the 'high score' mentality rather than leaving their consumer base fertile, by letting everybody else be slaves to an economy where a 125-hour work week earns enough for Top Ramen and cheap hotdogs, we are only exacerbating the problem. The inability to gain anything through legal channels leads to crimes, bitterness and stress create emotional problems, and soon crime becomes a coping mechanism as well as a daily grind. As people grow along this warped line, they become hateful, abusive, detached, and sociopathic. They may band together in gangs and hang onto it not just for the financial benefits, but the power trip; in a world that told them to fuck themselves, they've found something they control, they call the shots on, they can play god with just as the economy hanging over their heads played with them. And as this passes onto children, the cycle burns itself into our cultural retina.

I'm not talking about taking anything away from anybody. I'm talking about everybody gaining. The rich have money collecting cobwebs in their pockets; by opening the floodgates and letting it trickle down, they will give their countrymen the ability...to pay them money. The 'high score' is a startlingly naive financial effort; the far more shrewd approach is a consistent give and take. More money in society means more jobs, meaning more people with money, and all those people who have money will have more money than they had before, meaning they can buy stuff from your corporation, giving you money. It's a simple but proven cycle worked in every sustainable system on the planet; to ignore it is to ignore sustainability.

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hoppy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2012, 03:40:11 AM »
The leftist agenda and the right agenda are run by the same people. It is a false dichotomy made so that it seems that you have a choice in who is running things. You can through the bums out, through the election process. The reality is that the faces may change but the policies don't.
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Wakka Wakka

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2012, 06:52:32 AM »
The leftist agenda and the right agenda are run by the same people. It is a false dichotomy made so that it seems that you have a choice in who is running things. You can through the bums out, through the election process. The reality is that the faces may change but the policies don't.
Lol...ok.  Who is running both the right and the left?  Be specific now...
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Lorddave

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2012, 07:11:31 AM »
The leftist agenda and the right agenda are run by the same people. It is a false dichotomy made so that it seems that you have a choice in who is running things. You can through the bums out, through the election process. The reality is that the faces may change but the policies don't.
Lol...ok.  Who is running both the right and the left?  Be specific now...
Rupert Murdoc.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2012, 11:22:21 AM »
I would argue nothing is further from caring by equating individuals that are clearly not equal.
There is a difference between 'equal' and 'the same'.

Person A might be smart diligent and diplomatic. Person B might be a dumb stubborn guy in a sweater. Which of the two should be given the rights to free speech, petition, assembly, religion, etc? Hint: You're allowed to say both.
That situation deals with freedom, one of the three values I mentioned. Left philosophies value positive freedom more than the right. That does not translate to a difference in negative freedom perspectives.
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Hazbollah

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2012, 02:50:14 PM »
The right values freedom above all else

No they don't. If that was true, we wouldn't have drug laws, or Homeland Security.

The left values equality of opportunity, that everyone is given the same set of rules to play by.
Yes, everyone has the opportunity to live in equal squalor. But at least the proletarit know it's all for the greater good while they queue for the commune's one toilet block.
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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2012, 02:57:51 PM »
^ Maybe if the country has about $70,000 total to its name. But any of the first-world giants you likely occupy to afford the computer you're on right now would mean that everybody would live in relative comfort.

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Rushy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2012, 04:31:05 PM »
^ Maybe if the country has about $70,000 total to its name. But any of the first-world giants you likely occupy to afford the computer you're on right now would mean that everybody would live in relative comfort.

Computers are cheaper than toilets, much less than a whole room built around the toilet.

Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2012, 04:34:56 PM »
Still, I'd assume he's not just crapping in the bushes and wiping with leaves between forum posts xD

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ﮎingulaЯiτy

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2012, 08:39:11 PM »
The right values freedom above all else. Security is important and equality is somewhat important,only in terms of equal opprtunity and no discrimination.

And yet which party implements policies that place "security" higher than freedom? Who created the Patriot Act? How about Gitmo? Those are two major attacks on the Bill of Rights severely eroding citizen freedoms for alleged security.

Can you cite examples where Republicans pursue freedom (for people, not businesses) where Democrats do not?

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The left values equality above the other two. Security is important (and different flavors of security compared to the right) while freedom is somewhat important.

Just curious, but what led you to believe equality supersedes freedom in the eyes of democrats? Especially when they argue for freedom virtually every time they argue for equality? (Ex. Gay marriage rights -> Equal Freedom.)

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I will always argue freedom is more important than equality and thus in my view, the leftist agenda is always geared towards a more controlling government by forcing people to become more equal than they actually are.
Apart from corporations, liberal policies generally promote a less involved government, do they not? (Liberals generally argue that government should not unfairly restrict marriage, dictate abortion, outlaw medical substances, etc.)
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 08:41:35 PM by ﮎingulaЯiτy »
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Can someone explain to me what the "Leftist Agenda" is?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2012, 08:46:24 PM »
Democrat vs Republican party=/= left vs right.
I saw a slight haze in the hotel bathroom this morning after I took a shower, have I discovered a new planet?