The Coriolis Effect

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The Coriolis Effect
« on: June 19, 2012, 06:35:42 AM »
The Coriolis Effect is the true statement that in the northern hemisphere water moves clockwise, and in the southern hemisphere water moves counter-clockwise. This is due to earth's rotation. The water follows the Earth's rotation almost exactly, but it is just a little slower. For example, if you are in the northern hemisphere and flush a toilet then the water will get slightly delayed and move downwards and to the west side of the magnetic north pole (it moves downwards due to the toilet having more mass underneath it). By the way, the Coriolis Effect IS proven, so the Flat Earth Theory has to have some logical evidence of how this effect takes place. Can you please explain it to me?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 06:37:25 AM by flamen0d »

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 06:45:58 AM »
Can you please explain it to me?
Yes, Coriolis is a load of bull.

For example, if you are in the northern hemisphere and flush a toilet then the water will get slightly delayed and move downwards and to the west side of the magnetic north pole (it moves downwards due to the toilet having more mass underneath it).
http://teenskepchick.org/2012/01/09/flushing-toilets-the-coriolis-effect/
http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/rotation-earth-toilet-baseball2.htm
http://www.mythbusters.com/a-few-more-science-myths.html

Maybe you should actually try flushing a few toilets before you come here telling us our theories are all rubbish. The very fact toilets totally ignore Coriolis can only be another argument in favour of a flat earth.

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 06:57:10 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?

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Rushy

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 07:06:40 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?

It does not, it mentions that the supposed Coriolis effect "helps" their direction, when it simply does not. When you have this force that scientists have convinced themselves exists, and really doesn't, they'll look for it in places its not really there.

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 07:13:42 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?

It does not, it mentions that the supposed Coriolis effect "helps" their direction, when it simply does not. When you have this force that scientists have convinced themselves exists, and really doesn't, they'll look for it in places its not really there.

Okay, so your basically saying "fuck scientists," in a nicer way. Nice arguement.

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 07:38:22 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?

It does not, it mentions that the supposed Coriolis effect "helps" their direction, when it simply does not. When you have this force that scientists have convinced themselves exists, and really doesn't, they'll look for it in places its not really there.

You won't gain anything by denying the obvious.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 07:41:09 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?
Because when you dig deeper, you will see than Coriolis doesn't effect any of the things you think it does.

It doesn't effect toilets or sinks.
Tornados turn either way. " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Here is a youtube video of a Clockwise one in Texas
Ocean currents you say? Read on.

How can you prove the actions of Coriolis in the sea? Its all very well making nice maps like the one below and saying that's what happens. Here at FES we do things the proper way. What is measurable?


So there is Coriolis. Nice. Northern Hemisphere, currents go clockwise if they follow the wind.

Now lets examine what happens in real life and not the Coriolis fairytale with some thing real.

In 1992 a ship full of plastic ducks sailed, from Hong Kong to Washington. Enroute the ship hit a storm and 12 containers of ducks were washed overboard. Below is the route the floating ducks took.

http://www.squidoo.com/armada-of-lost-plastic-ducks
They turned anti-clockwise north and clockwise south.

The exact opposite directions coriollis predicts.

So although the theory of Coriolis gives Round Earthers a warm fuzzy theory of superiority, when put to the test, it was debunked by a bunch of quacks.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:49:39 AM by Thork »

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 07:43:12 AM »
Okay, so your basically saying "fuck scientists," in a nicer way. Nice arguement.

In how many ways do we need to tell you that it is not science, nor fact?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:47:41 AM by jroa »

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 08:07:14 AM »
Umm... if you say that the Coriolis effect is a "load of bull" how come your own sources say it's true through hurricanes and currents?
Because when you dig deeper, you will see than Coriolis doesn't effect any of the things you think it does.

It doesn't effect toilets or sinks.
Tornados turn either way. " class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Here is a youtube video of a Clockwise one in Texas
Ocean currents you say? Read on.

How can you prove the actions of Coriolis in the sea? Its all very well making nice maps like the one below and saying that's what happens. Here at FES we do things the proper way. What is measurable?


So there is Coriolis. Nice. Northern Hemisphere, currents go clockwise if they follow the wind.

Now lets examine what happens in real life and not the Coriolis fairytale with some thing real.

In 1992 a ship full of plastic ducks sailed, from Hong Kong to Washington. Enroute the ship hit a storm and 12 containers of ducks were washed overboard. Below is the route the floating ducks took.

http://www.squidoo.com/armada-of-lost-plastic-ducks
They turned anti-clockwise north and clockwise south.

The exact opposite directions coriollis predicts.

So although the theory of Coriolis gives Round Earthers a warm fuzzy theory of superiority, when put to the test, it was debunked by a bunch of quacks.

One example.

Dig deep inside yourself and find out if one example is enough.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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Son of Orospu

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 08:10:32 AM »
I have dug deep inside myself, and found that one example means more than no examples.

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 08:18:08 AM »
One example.

Dig deep inside yourself and find out if one example is enough.
??? How long should my posts be? Would you read them if they were several thousand words each? How about you acquaint yourself with the search function and you will find hundreds of threads on Coriolis with as many examples.

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Rushy

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 08:20:40 AM »
One example.

Dig deep inside yourself and find out if one example is enough.
??? How long should my posts be? Would you read them if they were several thousand words each? How about you acquaint yourself with the search function and you will find hundreds of threads on Coriolis with as many examples.

EZ has turned into a one-line poster of "You're wrong." You (or perhaps even I) have broken his brain. He doesn't argue, he doesn't do rebuttals. He believes you to be wrong religiously, meaning he has no evidence.

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 08:27:11 AM »
One example.

Dig deep inside yourself and find out if one example is enough.
??? How long should my posts be? Would you read them if they were several thousand words each? How about you acquaint yourself with the search function and you will find hundreds of threads on Coriolis with as many examples.

EZ has turned into a one-line poster of "You're wrong." You (or perhaps even I) have broken his brain. He doesn't argue, he doesn't do rebuttals. He believes you to be wrong religiously, meaning he has no evidence.
He's frightened to post opinions and anything of any worth because he has had his backside handed to him so many times before. Its embarrassing when you are arguing that earth is round with the entire weight of the world's scientific community behind you ... and you actually lose. Repeatedly. Thread after thread, day after day. Those very same people you came to ridicule end up outwitting you at every turn ... in the end you try not to give anything away and just post snide remarks at those you now loathe, those that are mopping the lower fora with your dignity.

Of course a bigger man would just admit earth was flat, swap sides and become part of the A-team ... but somehow the noobs would rather just post endless one-liners "But NASA says earth is round and they have photos :'(" etc etc.

Anyway, yeah. Consider that noob broken. We won't be getting much more out of him.

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 10:40:19 AM »
The Coriolis effect isn't a significant force in ocean currents and toilets of course, but it does determine the rotation of hurricanes and depressions. Check out these pics of Atlantic hurricanes vs. cyclones in Australia:




The Coriolis force is a force just like the centrifugal pseudo-force. You can prove it's existence by transforming from a stationary to a rotating set of axes. The formula for the force vector is F=-2mw^v' with m being the mass of the moving object, w angular velocity vector of the earth (perpendicular to the north pole in both a flat and a round earth) and v' the velocity vector of the moving object. Plugging in the numbers, this would mean that all cyclones should move counter-clockwise on a flat earth, just like in the northern hemisphere (as air rushes towards their centers). Flat earth cannot account for the clockwise rotation of cyclones in the southern hemisphere. Again, round earth has been proven.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:41:52 AM by Alatus_leo »

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Rushy

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 10:48:16 AM »
The Coriolis effect isn't a significant force in ocean currents and toilets of course, but it does determine the rotation of hurricanes and depressions. Check out these pics of Atlantic hurricanes vs. cyclones in Australia:

The Coriolis force is a force just like the centrifugal pseudo-force. You can prove it's existence by transforming from a stationary to a rotating set of axes. The formula for the force vector is F=-2mw^v' with m being the mass of the moving object, w angular velocity vector of the earth (perpendicular to the north pole in both a flat and a round earth) and v' the velocity vector of the moving object. Plugging in the numbers, this would mean that all cyclones should move counter-clockwise on a flat earth, just like in the northern hemisphere (as air rushes towards their centers). Flat earth cannot account for the clockwise rotation of cyclones in the southern hemisphere. Again, round earth has been proven.

You are attributing a force that doesn't exist to a phenomenon. You are not taking into account wind currents which naturally occur due to seasons and ocean conveyors. Using the Coriolis effect to explain these things is an incorrect assumption. To say this proves a round Earth would be to say that these weather patterns can not happen on a flat Earth, which is incorrect. This is the second time I've caught you self-validating. Please do refrain from doing that, it makes you look dishonest.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:50:49 AM by Irushwithscvs »

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2012, 10:52:33 AM »
The Coriolis effect isn't a significant force in ocean currents and toilets of course, but it does determine the rotation of hurricanes and depressions. Check out these pics of Atlantic hurricanes vs. cyclones in Australia:

The Coriolis force is a force just like the centrifugal pseudo-force. You can prove it's existence by transforming from a stationary to a rotating set of axes. The formula for the force vector is F=-2mw^v' with m being the mass of the moving object, w angular velocity vector of the earth (perpendicular to the north pole in both a flat and a round earth) and v' the velocity vector of the moving object. Plugging in the numbers, this would mean that all cyclones should move counter-clockwise on a flat earth, just like in the northern hemisphere (as air rushes towards their centers). Flat earth cannot account for the clockwise rotation of cyclones in the southern hemisphere. Again, round earth has been proven.

You are attributing a force that doesn't exist to a phenomenon. You are not taking into account wind currents which naturally occur due to seasons and ocean conveyors. Using the Coriolis effect to explain these things is an incorrect assumption.

To say this proves a round Earth would be to say that these weather patterns can not happen on a flat Earth, which is incorrect. This is the second time I've caught you self-validating. Please do refrain from doing that, it makes you look dishonest.
-I can prove mathematically that the force exists if you want
-Why else would there be such a distinct difference between the northern and southern hemisphere? Can you display that wind currents could possibly explain such a pattern?

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Rushy

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2012, 10:59:14 AM »
-I can prove mathematically that the force exists if you want

That would be most interesting.

-Why else would there be such a distinct difference between the northern and southern hemisphere? Can you display that wind currents could possibly explain such a pattern?

I do not need to display that wind currents caused it. I am not the one claiming this mysterious force makes storms turn different directions in each hemiplane. I do not have to disprove the Coriolis effect, for unless enough evidence is provided for its existence (and that the force could only be caused by the rotation of the Earth) I have no need to believe it exists.

Science should not be a "this is the only theory we have, so we're going with this until someone else comes up with something." If the evidence is not sufficient, then the effect does not exist. You can't simply show some equations that end up with the product you want. Being able to calculate an event does not equate to knowing what causes that event to happen.

I want to see significant proof that this force exists and that it can only be caused by the rotation of a round Earth. If I even have a doubt that something else could cause this phenomnon, then I see no reason to put faith in this effect. Faith is for the religious, it doesn't belong here.

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 11:07:36 AM »

Quote from: http://edhelper.com/ReadingComprehension_54_1826.html
Caption: This picture taken by the ISS shows a rare Southern Hemisphere cyclone (that is why it shows a clockwise rotation).
What happened to Coriolis there?

You will be aware that most storms are electrical in nature. It is quite possible the ionized air molecules are charged and create the spin of a hurricane/cyclone based not on the spin of earth, but proximity to a magnetic pole. Those nearer the hub (north pole) will more likely spin clockwise and those nearer the south magnetic pole spin anti-clockwise thanks to Flemmings right hand rule. That would seem a lot more plausible that the spin of the earth. Especially as the air moves with the earth in the vacuum of space. If the air moves with the earth, then there is no net force to turn hurricanes - if it doesn't you are going to be knocked over by 1000mp/h winds.
Coriolis is bunk. Its attributed to all kinds of magic that either doesn't happen or is explained by something else. It doesn't actually exist.

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 11:56:32 AM »


The proof is kind of long and boring. Here goes:
Consider to sets ox axes: Oxyz, that appears stationary to anyone/anything on earth's surface and O'x'y'z', the in which earth itself is stationary and not rotating. Let O=O'. O'x'y'z' rotation is given by the constant vector w.

a position in O'x'y'z' is r' = x'e(x')+y'e(y')+z'e(z') with e(x') the x' unity vector

therefore, by derivation:
v' = v(x)'e(x')+v(y)'e(y')+v(z)'e(z') with v(x') the projection of v on the x'-vector
and: a' = a(x)'e(x')+a(y)'e(y')+a(z)'e(z')

d(e(z'))/dt is the speed of e(z')'s tip, so = v* = w^R* = w^R = w^e(z')
apply same logic to e(x') and e(y')

the speed of an object with mass m in Oxyz is dr/dt = dr'/dt transformed from O'x'y'z' to Oxyz
dr'/dt = dx'/dt*e(x') + dy'/dt*e(y') + dz'/dt*e(z') + x'dx'/dt + y'dy'/dt + z'dz'/dt
=v'+x'(w^e*x') + y'(w^e*y') + y'(w^e*y')
=v' + w^r'

By derivation:
a=dv/dt =dv'/dt + w^(dr'/dt) both transformed from O'x'y'z' to Oxyz
we still have to look for dv'/dt, using the same strategy as above:
dv'/dt = dv(x')/dt*e(x') + dv(y')/dt*e(y') + dv(z')/dt*e(z') + v(x')(w^e*x')  + v(y')(w^e*y')  + v(z')(w^e*z')
=a' + (w^v')

And there we have it:
a= a' + )w^v') + w^(v'+ w^r)
= a' + 2w^v' + w^(w^r)
so a' = a - 2w^v' - w^(w^r)

This first term is the actual acceleration of the object on earth's surface, the third term is the good old centrifugal force, the second term is what became known as the Coriolis force. Since I see that Thork has proposed a plausible hypothesis for the storm's rotation on a flat earth, I propose to use Coriolis for the following:

Foucault's pendulum is also explained by this force. However, you can see that on a flat earth, Foucault's pendulum would rotate in the same direction on both hemispheres and even would rotate even at the equator, while on a round earth, it wouldn't rotate at the equator and would rotate in the opposite direction on the northern and southern hemispheres. This is a very easy experiment that will prove the shape of the earth once and for all! All we need is 2 people at different latitudes willing to participate. If both notice exactly the same amount of rotation in the same amount of time, earth is flat. If they don't, earth is round.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 12:10:36 PM by Alatus_leo »

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 11:58:43 AM »

Quote from: http://edhelper.com/ReadingComprehension_54_1826.html
Caption: This picture taken by the ISS shows a rare Southern Hemisphere cyclone (that is why it shows a clockwise rotation).
What happened to Coriolis there?
What's wrong? Cyclones in the south always show clockwise rotation.
Anyway you don't seem to understand what causes Coriolis, my above post proves its existence.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 12:16:03 PM by Alatus_leo »

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Ski

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 12:32:34 PM »
Any manifestation of Coriolis is due to the movement of the heavens.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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hoppy

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 12:42:27 PM »
Any manifestation of Coriolis is due to the movement of the heavens.
Amen brother.
God is real.                                         
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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 12:45:36 PM »
Any manifestation of Coriolis is due to the movement of the heavens.
Can't tell if serious or trolling...

However, Foucault is a manifestation of Coriolis that doesn't depend on anything. Anyone wanna do the experiment? We can determine the shape of the Earth.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 12:48:36 PM »
Any manifestation of Coriolis is due to the movement of the heavens.
Amen brother.

Great zetetic minds at work here, folks.

How curious that the movement of the heavens creates a force that's exactly what's predicted for a spinning round earth.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Ski

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 01:29:59 PM »
How curious that the movement of the heavens creates a force that's exactly what's predicted for the spinning heavens.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2012, 01:34:35 PM »
How curious that the movement of the heavens creates a force that's exactly what's predicted for the spinning heavens.
How that could explain Coriolis-related effect is beyond me. But I don't care. I wanna do the Foucault experiment.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2012, 01:44:24 PM »
How curious that the movement of the heavens creates a force that's exactly what's predicted for the spinning heavens.

On a flat earth?  You can't even describe the spinning of the heavens in any detail.  We get two words, "celestial gears" and that's that.  Where, exactly, these gears are located, what areas they cover, everything else is a mystery.

Are you claiming that you understand the spinning of the heavens well enough now to make actual predictions about the force it would create?  If so, I'm sure we'd all love to see what new information you've come across.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.

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Thork

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2012, 01:47:21 PM »
How that could explain Coriolis-related effect is beyond me. But I don't care. I wanna do the Foucault experiment.

Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still & the all the stars went around the Earth than the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

Source: Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2012, 01:55:14 PM »
How that could explain Coriolis-related effect is beyond me. But I don't care. I wanna do the Foucault experiment.

Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still & the all the stars went around the Earth than the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

Source: Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science
Makes no difference, the stars (they'd have to be very dense) still couldn't effect the pendulum in the same way as Coriolis would on ar round earth. The experiment remains valid.

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Cat Earth Theory

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Re: The Coriolis Effect
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2012, 01:55:45 PM »
Surely you're not going to use gravity, that hated RE lie, to explain something?

Also, Mach's Principle assumes a round earth.  The celestial gears can't reproduce the movement you'd get on a round earth.
If you focus on the cloud, and conceive of it just as you would a dream you are trying to interpret, with practice its meanings and memories will be revealed to you.